Hello all,
I just love the bass sound on some Beatles' songs, especially "Paperback Writer" and "Rain", also "Got To Get You Into My Life" and "With A Little Help From My Friends". Does anyone have any idea how I can achieve a similar sound. I'm especially interested in what strings to use, whether flatwounds or tapewounds or other, and what guage strings? Also, what type and amount of processing, especially compression, might work?
I'm sure it's played using a plectrum (what thickness?) and that it's a Rickenbacker or Hofner bass guitar.
I'm tired of a modern roundwound bright sound- it just doesn't sound "bassy" enough for me!
Thanks,
Tristan.

A friend that is a bassist actually had one of those Hofner viola basses and I'd have to say the majority of the sound is in that instrument itself. I think flatwounds would work better or older strings as you want to get a bit of a dull pumping bass sound. Rolling treble on a modern bass MM or Fender Jazz bass might also get you kinda in that ballpark.

I am sure some old tube gizmo was used on those recordings as well, maybe in a bind I'd try a Bassman plugin by Amplitube Fender. Honestly, though I'd have to say it would be the type of bass itself that generates that sound.

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www.descentintomadness.com

I'm looking at Pyramid Gold Chrome Nickel Flatwound Bass Strings. At nearly £45 a set, they better be good!
I think that they are a large part of the following sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuos5WcmeE

Or perhaps Thomastik Flatwounds, a cool £46 a set.
Sounds like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlEe5axqQW4&feature=related
I just love this sound!

As well, a lot of the sound in those songs like Rain and Paperback Writer was a result of the compression and other processing used.

"Recording the Beatles" is a good book for what equipment and processing was used.

Also, "Beatles Gear" by Andy Babiuk. That book says the bass on Paperback Writer was the Burns Nu-Sonic bass +/- McCartney's Rickenbacher 4001S through a Fender Bassman amp vs. a Vox 4120 bass amp. Additionally, on the Revolver album (though not sure which tracks) Geoff Emerick used a loudspeaker as a microphone for the bass sound.

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

I honestly think you don't need to throw that amount of cash on new strings. Put on an old dull string set that doesn't have that sparkle and play it with a pick and you'd be halfway there, the effect is pretty much the same. If you think about their bass sound is basically a dull bass sound (not much treble) with the pumping initial attack coming from the pick and the acoustic size of the instrument which is small and doesn't project in a way that other bass guitars do. I think if you try the Amplitube Fender plugin you'd be pleasantly surprised at how close it gets even with a regular bass.

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www.descentintomadness.com

In his book " Abbey Road to Ziggy Stardust " , Ken Scott wrote ( about the White Album ) ;
" The 4-string bass was sometimes doubled by a 6-string bass on some songs . By this time Paul had acquired a Fender Jazz Bass which he used in lieu of his Rickenbacker , and a Fender Bass VI was always around the studio .
...... The two parts were always played together and never overdubbed individually. "

The practice was known as " Tic-toc bass "
He wrote that you can hear it on " Piggies ", " While My Guitar Gently Weeps ", " Glass Onion " and " Rocky Racoon " .

HTH

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Music is it's own reward .

Any tips on compression settings to get this sound, especially the prominent but rounded attack.
My guess is heavy compression with a long attack and a short release. I'll do my own experimenting, but just wondering if m'learned friends have any pointers?

The main thing obviously is his technique. He was basically playing in a style common to a lot of pop records of the time, also made famous by Carol Kaye who played for The Beach Boys.
Playing with a pick, but using palm mute through heavey compression.

The bass makes a bit of difference, but not much. I switched from a Danelectro DC to a Fender P, worrying that I would not be able to continue playing in this style, but i was fine. A lighter, duel pick up bass helps get a Hofner tone, especially if the bridge pick up is favoured - but obviously Macca playing a Rickenbacker sounds nothing like Geddy Lee.

Anyhow I have had most sucess with one of those old green Joe Meek channel box's, though I can get a nice vintage tone using an automatic Drawmer MX30, or even an Autocom. I like the fact that the Drawmer is auto, since you can be caught faffing with the attack time for ever. However the The joe meek seams most bass friendly and is just a smidge more authentic - which you would hope.

Once you have dialed in a fairly high ratio its a matter of using the pick to 'play into' it, but importantly learning how to use to your palm to lightly mute and control the decay. For some reason a light mute on the strings cause the bassy, post attack part of the note to 'bloom', and this is emphasised using a compressor to level up the decay.

Other tricks of the time are obviously eq - if you want to emphasise the clicky attack, and dsitortion, which again brings forward the treble part - but dont use anything that night cut off the bottom like a guitar pedal. I'm sure a lot of Beatles records use extra bass dialed in - from the desk - and pre compressor?

The more vintage or analogue your gear the better - Sansamp bass driver works well. The best approach is to forget trying to sound exactly like McCarteny, but try getting a good sixities picked bass sound technique - then look at the things he is doing differently - mostly a lot more bass - he always like to be heard what ever he did!

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Edited by Chaconne (19/08/12 01:05 PM)

not to hijack the thread, but can any of the beatle-heads w/access to the numerous books on their recording techniques fill me in on macca's rig for "come together"? to me, that is the ne plus ultra of beatle bass lines, necessitated as i understand by paul's desire/need to drown out john's vocal refrain "shoot me" that the latter insisted on using as a motif in the song. btw, is it true that paul, once the multitrac arrived, would lay down a scratch bass line for the rough mix, and then at the very end add a new bass track, either to augment the original bass line or to replace it altogether? however he did it, it was magic. the strange thing is that the magic didn't carry over to the "wings" albums. strange.

cheers,

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

Rain and Paperback Writer were both played by Macca on his Ricky 4001. His amp was, I think a Vox AC100 (if I'm right a transistor model) - one of the major factors influencing the sound of those recordings is, I think, likely to be the fact that the amp was recorded not with a conventional mic but by placing another speaker cab in front of the bass cab (it's the same theory, they're both transducers. If you want to hear it working the other way, just plug a mic into a speaker output. Briefly, and before you blow the diaphragm, you'll hear an audible signal coming from the mic). This results in there being very little top end in the bass tracks. He's also playing quite high up the neck. As for using a pick, he'd use either pick or fingers as the track demanded. He'd also use a capo on occasion.

Apparently George martin was also fond of Farichild compressors - and, of course, they'd have had the lovely Abbey Road home-brew electronic doodads - THIS for instance.

If you're really into the Beatles, check out Andy Babiuk's superb book "Beatles Gear" and, of course, Iain McDonald's incredible and exhaustive "Revolution in the head".

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"We knocked on the doors of Hell's darker chambers..." But no-one answered, so we went to the pub instead.

I have heard somewere the story about the scratch bass method.
Pretty sure the bass on 'Something' - another genius part after 'Come Together' - , was played last. I think Harrison thought it was overplayed, and maybe this is partly the reason for the 'bass last' - so Macca could induldge. He certainly took care on them anyhow, and I could imagine that George would see that as an ego thing, Paul in interviews quite often states that when he found himself the bassist, he was going to make sure that didn't mean standing at the back playing roots.

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Some great infomation guy! I'm reckon the place to start is a set of Thomastik JF344 Flatwounds- see them for £40 here- then experiment with compression, pickup settings, eq etc. I don't necessrily want to directly copy McCartney's sound, but I want elements of his sound, such as the rounded bassy tone than really projects and sits sweetly in the music without blending, and also the perky fat attack.
Can't afford a Rickenbacker though- gonna have to be on my Ibanez SG.

I think string dampening was a Motown thing too - try putting a cloth or one of those tennis wrist thingies on the bridge to kill a little bit of the sustain, that'll get the pumping sound or just palm mute.

Some people here suggest different damping methods, felt, etc.

Paul was actually mentioned on this one as well:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment-forums/guitars-basses/bass-dampenin g-old-school-pop-r-b-sound-341891/

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www.descentintomadness.com

As I was playing bass guitar from 1962 on, I have a few thoughts here.
I had a '62 Precision with Rotop* flat wound strings on it.
The rubber mute was still in the rear ashtray, as it came from the factory.
Instant Beatles bass sound, or anyone else who was around at the time.

At the time these were called tape wound and were exactly like metal wrapped double bass strings
The nylon tape wrapped things came later and would burn your fingers if you slid up and down them too fast! Crap tone, too.


I now get the same sort of sound out of a Mexican Precision with half round strings and most of the tone control wound off. Bit of foam under the strings close to the bridge and bob is your uncle.

I used to play with a big fat plastic pick plus a little right hand muting as needed and now use a 1mm Herco Nylon if I need to get that sort of 60's picked bass sound.

*Became Rotosound in later years.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

Bit of thread duplicating going on here but yes, follow the Carol Kaye route. Bit of foam under the strings, any old foam like a bit of bath sponge will do, but just touching NOT pressing hard. And flatwounds. Hard pick, and pick HARD. Adjust amp to taste. (CLue, Carol Kaye used a guitar amp, not a bass amp for those 60s classics, Pink Panther, Pet Sounds and all her other classic tracks). Compression can help but it's technique really. Hi Ivan, how you doing?

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.