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Anonymous
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Drive pedal
      #1060525 - 03/08/13 02:40 PM
I was wondering which pedals create this sound:

ZZtop - Blue Jean Blues

When Billy "scrapes" the strings you can hear a sweet crunchy sound, which I'm looking for. I believe the pedals are designed to created the drive at a low gain.

Okko Diablo is the nearest I've heard to it but wondered if you guys could offer any alternatives or say which one Billy used exactly?

I'm sure the guitar was a Fender broadcaster.

Thanks


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060535 - 03/08/13 05:19 PM
I am only using my "NHS" kit but I would say that "clean to crunch" sound could be achieved by lots of rigs.
I bet my lad could make a fair go of it with his (cough!)20 into a Greenback.

Tip:Look for pedals with a dedicated "crunch" mode on them and possibly a valve inside!

Dave.


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dubbmann
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Joined: 17/03/04
Posts: 1559
Loc: 3rd stone from the sun.
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060545 - 03/08/13 07:50 PM
i've always thought that billy doesn't use much FX. i've certainly never seen him tap any pedal when playing live. there are some players (gibbons, chris spedding, etc) who just rely on really good sounding pups and great amps to get 99% of their sound. fwiw, billy uses a metal pick (a Mexican peso hammered flat) and that may be part of the 'sound' you are after.

i'll be interested in what some of the zz heads here chime in. i'd love to be enlightened too ;-)

cheers,

d

ps: i'm listening to the track and not hearing the string brushing you mentioned. at what time does it happen?

--------------------
http://www.thinkbluecounttwo.com/
http://www.phichibe.com


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: dubbmann]
      #1060549 - 03/08/13 09:07 PM
Quote dubbmann:

i've always thought that billy doesn't use much FX. i've certainly never seen him tap any pedal when playing live. there are some players (gibbons, chris spedding, etc) who just rely on really good sounding pups and great amps to get 99% of their sound. fwiw, billy uses a metal pick (a Mexican peso hammered flat) and that may be part of the 'sound' you are after.

i'll be interested in what some of the zz heads here chime in. i'd love to be enlightened too ;-)

cheers,

d

ps: i'm listening to the track and not hearing the string brushing you mentioned. at what time does it happen?




I am sure you are right Dubbs but I assume the OP does not have the luxury of running an amp loud enough to get to that "magic crunch point" and wants a way to simulate it at sane SPLS?

FWIIW son and I got a very good rendition of the creamy grind on "Gimme all your Lovin" by driving the (loaded!) output of an 20W valve amp(spam forbids) into the input grid of a Mersey Super 15, essentially a Dominator clone. Mind you, I do not condone the practice unless like me you have a large stock of ECC83s. Although, he was at it for hours and the poor valve seemed to survive!

Dave.


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Gary_W



Joined: 18/10/06
Posts: 464
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060552 - 03/08/13 09:36 PM
Looking at this

http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/304-zz-top-billy-...

It sounds like he's used pretty much anything and everything over the years so I suppose you can't say 100% what it was.

But, to me, it sounds like an old Fender amp 'pushed'. And very nice it is too. From his gear list, either the Fender Deluxe (they've pictured a tweed deluxe by the look of it) or the Champ.

But these are just guesses! I've owned neither amp for real - have profiles of them these days on the Kemper. This example doesn't sound like the ZZ clip but http://www.theampfactory.com/all-downloads/amps-pack-4/ shows the kind of sounds a Tweed Deluxe can get (second amp down). Right guitar, gain and Billy Gibbons on the fretboard and you'd be there.

If you have a Fender-ish amp then cranking that will do. If you can't crank it, hit it with a cleanish boost.

If you want to do dirty tweed / clean tweed with a pedal, there is the Formula Number 5 that Catalinbread make. http://www.catalinbread.com/FN5 Obviously, its ability to make something sound like a tweed amp is going to depend entirely on your actual amp.....

Edited by Gary_W (03/08/13 09:37 PM)


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ef37a]
      #1060565 - 04/08/13 02:00 AM
Quote ef37a:

I am only using my "NHS" kit but I would say that "clean to crunch" sound could be achieved by lots of rigs.
I bet my lad could make a fair go of it with his (cough!)20 into a Greenback.

Tip:Look for pedals with a dedicated "crunch" mode on them and possibly a valve inside!

Dave.




Hi Dave, would love to hear what you can do.


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zenguitarAdministrator
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Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 8894
Loc: Devon
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060566 - 04/08/13 02:03 AM
Blue Jean Blues goes all the way back to 1974. So that means you can exclude a lot of the more esoteric guitars, amps, and pedals he has used since then.

A little snooping around online has produced a short list of 3 options. 1st, Marshall 100W Plexi, 2nd, Brown Fender Deluxe, 3rd, cranked Champ. The reason the plexi is listed first is a bunch of references to a Guitar Player interview with the Reverend around the time of the release of Deguillio where he said the earlier albums were all recorded using a 69 100W Plexi half stack. There are also regular reports of the Brown Face Deluxe from that period.

A Maestro Fuzz is also mentioned in dispatches.

I would look at any combination of Plexi, Brown Face Deluxe, and Maestro Fuzz. Never underestimate the value of dual amp set-ups when it comes to great crunch tones, a lot of players go that route live and in the studio, for good reason. One clean + one dirty = crunch.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: dubbmann]
      #1060567 - 04/08/13 02:05 AM
Quote dubbmann:



ps: i'm listening to the track and not hearing the string brushing you mentioned. at what time does it happen?




First one is about 1:14min. Just after he says "that old line of gasoline"


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dubbmann
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Joined: 17/03/04
Posts: 1559
Loc: 3rd stone from the sun.
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: zenguitar]
      #1060571 - 04/08/13 05:25 AM
Quote zenguitar:


A Maestro Fuzz is also mentioned in dispatches.

Andy




as i read this i recalled a song from 'antenna' called 'fuzzbox voodoo' so i'm happy to stand corrected by the esteemed zen ;-) also, on 'rhythmeen' there's a song called 'hummbucking, part 2' so that might be a clue as well. that said, i used to know a guitar tech with a lot of contacts in the high-end world of rock gtr specialists (one was pete townsend's guy, for example) and he told me that billy was very well known for dissembling in interviews about what he used in the studio to get his sounds. sort of like robert fripp: after he and eno let the world know frippertronics was basically two revox a77s, he was plagued by people stealing his sound, and since then he's been really cryptic about his rig. anyway, the rev rocks!

cheers,

d

--------------------
http://www.thinkbluecounttwo.com/
http://www.phichibe.com


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060572 - 04/08/13 05:52 AM
Quote Music Manic:

Quote ef37a:

I am only using my "NHS" kit but I would say that "clean to crunch" sound could be achieved by lots of rigs.
I bet my lad could make a fair go of it with his (cough!)20 into a Greenback.

Tip:Look for pedals with a dedicated "crunch" mode on them and possibly a valve inside!

Dave.




Hi Dave, would love to hear what you can do.


....Moir? I can't play for toffee and son is in France.

There is a lick about 15seconds before the fade that sounds to me like an amp power stage being well stressed and chopping out the section and stuffing it into RMA indeed shows 60Hz and 120Hz spikes only a dB or so below the main level. This indicates to me that the sound was "pure" amp and not pedal or pre amp distortion.
Dave.

Edited by ef37a (04/08/13 06:26 AM)


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ef37a]
      #1060664 - 04/08/13 07:40 PM
Quote ef37a:


There is a lick about 15seconds before the fade that sounds to me like an amp power stage being well stressed and chopping out the section and stuffing it into RMA indeed shows 60Hz and 120Hz spikes only a dB or so below the main level. This indicates to me that the sound was "pure" amp and not pedal or pre amp distortion.
Dave.




Dave could you give us a quick run down on how the audio signal, from guitar pickup to the pre-amp then the cabinet, is "treated" by each phase.

I remember Hugh saying a lot of the direct HF is filtered out by the time the speakers reach the microphones? Is that why we have too much HF in the D.I. sound?

That Tweed amp sound posted above is just so creamy and beautiful! Wow!

Thanks for your input guys.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060670 - 04/08/13 08:48 PM
I just want to add that I'm listening to the non-original version of "it's only love" from the Tejas album. It's where they changed Beards drums due to the ownership of the original. I didn't realise how important the drums are. Although the feel of the guitar is there the drums are horrible. Such a tight play on the original which gives an extra kick and feel to the track.

Bloody politics and greed!


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060680 - 04/08/13 10:30 PM
FYI
ZZ Top guitar rig - Elwood Francis


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060699 - 05/08/13 05:21 AM
Quote Music Manic:

Quote ef37a:


There is a lick about 15seconds before the fade that sounds to me like an amp power stage being well stressed and chopping out the section and stuffing it into RMA indeed shows 60Hz and 120Hz spikes only a dB or so below the main level. This indicates to me that the sound was "pure" amp and not pedal or pre amp distortion.
Dave.




Dave could you give us a quick run down on how the audio signal, from guitar pickup to the pre-amp then the cabinet, is "treated" by each phase.

I remember Hugh saying a lot of the direct HF is filtered out by the time the speakers reach the microphones? Is that why we have too much HF in the D.I. sound?

That Tweed amp sound posted above is just so creamy and beautiful! Wow!

Thanks for your input guys.




You want me to tell you how to build a guitar amplifier Manic?!
Heh! Ok, I have a Fender Twin (5F8) map before me and there is very little in the way of response shaping save the tone stack but this (download Duncan amps Tonestack Calculator) shows that with the tone controls centred there is a huge dip at 5kHz in fact to get any semblance of a "flat" response you have to set the pots to:..
Bass -0.5
Mid 10
Treble -0.5

This deep "smile" curve is common to almost all guitar amps and is a consequence of the "middly" nature of pups.

The Twin power stage is very flat, tho' some marks have a presence control. Negative feedback in fact makes the response even flatter and is probably responsible for Fender's super clean reputation.

The final HF filtering comes from the speaker. Gitspeaks as a man start to fall off at about 8kHz and are essentially done and dusted by 12kHz. So, no speaker, lot of fizz!

J! Can't find that DI project. Do you still have the circuit? If not what did it do?

Dave.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ef37a]
      #1060772 - 05/08/13 06:02 PM
Quote ef37a:



J! Can't find that DI project. Do you still have the circuit? If not what did it do?

Dave.




Here's a pic of it Dave. You added a resistor to the input, I think and ran the signal through an op-amp. It was such a clean signal and you didn't use a D.I.

Thanks



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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060800 - 05/08/13 08:54 PM
Quote Music Manic:

Quote ef37a:



J! Can't find that DI project. Do you still have the circuit? If not what did it do?

Dave.




Here's a pic of it Dave. You added a resistor to the input, I think and ran the signal through an op-amp. It was such a clean signal and you didn't use a D.I.

Thanks






Ah! That is still on the S-deck! What do you need? the circuit drawn up as a schematic?

Dave.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ef37a]
      #1060810 - 05/08/13 10:08 PM
Quote ef37a:

Quote Music Manic:

Quote ef37a:



J! Can't find that DI project. Do you still have the circuit? If not what did it do?

Dave.




Here's a pic of it Dave. You added a resistor to the input, I think and ran the signal through an op-amp. It was such a clean signal and you didn't use a D.I.

Thanks






Ah! That is still on the S-deck! What do you need? the circuit drawn up as a schematic?

Dave.




Yes that or a breadboard schematic would be grand Dave. Do you still have my email?

Thanks mate!


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6858
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060817 - 06/08/13 04:25 AM
"Do you still have my email?"

Eeeventoooally! Chrome is fast but AFAICT when you search for old emails it does not give the senders addy!

I had to fire up the old, clunky IE8......Anyhoos, on it!

Dave.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4403
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: ]
      #1060838 - 06/08/13 09:31 AM
Quote Music Manic:


Yes that or a breadboard schematic would be grand Dave. Do you still have my email?

Thanks mate!




I misread that as beard board.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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matt keen



Joined: 07/01/06
Posts: 1858
Loc: Northants, England
Re: Drive pedal new [Re: Music Manic]
      #1062859 - 20/08/13 07:18 AM
Tweed amp

Sounds more like a Bassman to me than a Deluxe

--------------------
Matt
www.krcollective.org


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