DaveA
Joined: 11/02/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Macclesfield, Cheshire
|
Cleaning a guitar
#720071 - 25/03/09 12:49 AM
|
|
|
Hi,
I've got an old bass that could do with a good clean, especially the body.
The finsh is very dull. Tried using guitar polish but it just doesn't work. I think it
needs something that will get rid of the muck rather than just spread it around. Any
ideas?
It may be a problem with the lacquer - years ago my wife polished it
with Pledge...
Cheers
-------------------- www.myspace.com/462759481
|
Stan
Joined: 17/01/05
Posts: 991
Loc: Dublin
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720075 - 25/03/09 01:20 AM
|
|
|
When i want to remove greasy stuff i use tissues. Tissues i find lift the muck, where as
cloths often spreads it around. Then i buff with a duster cloth.
Although, from your
post, it sounds like the body might need to be refinished.
i like to use tissues on
the fingerboard as well. i never use wire wool.
Edited by Stan (25/03/09 01:22 AM)
|
Music Wolf
Joined: 17/02/06
Posts: 351
Loc: Exiled to St Helens
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720090 - 25/03/09 06:31 AM
|
|
|
I use Planet Waves 'Restore' cleaning cream (it's like T-Cut, a mild abrasive). Gets
through years of grime.
-------------------- http://www.random-thought.co.uk/
|
DaveA
Joined: 11/02/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Macclesfield, Cheshire
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720151 - 25/03/09 11:05 AM
|
|
|
Hi,
Thanks for the quick reply guys! I would not get the body refinished
because it would reduce the value of it. Ordered the Planet Waves pack today - seems like
just what I need.
Ta
-------------------- www.myspace.com/462759481
|
grab
Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 1257
Loc: Cambridge, UK
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720190 - 25/03/09 12:52 PM
|
|
|
Soap flakes dissolved in a bit of warm water work nicely at removing crud. (I seem to
remember it was Zen who first mentioned this.)
Top tip: Mix up the soap
flakes with a very small amount of water (like a few teaspoons-worth) until they're
properly dissolved, then dilute it further. Otherwise you just get undissolved soap
flakes floating around in a bowl of not-very-soapy water. Same principle as mixing flour
and water (for those who do cooking).
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: grab]
#720429 - 26/03/09 01:57 AM
|
|
|
Quote grab:
Soap flakes dissolved
in a bit of warm water work nicely at removing crud. (I seem to remember it was Zen who
first mentioned this.)
Indeed, I have mentioned something along those lines in the past. But as this is a new
thread I ought to put it into it's original context.
RULE NUMBER ONE.
Never, and I mean NEVER, confuse cleaning a guitar with polishing a guitar or
restoring a finish. It's easy to get lazy with language and end up getting confused and
possibly making mistakes.
Cleaning means removing all the muck, dirt, grease
and old polish to get you back to the original paint. And yes, whatever name we use...
polyester, acrylic, lacquer, cellulose, French Polish, emulsion... it's all paint.
Soapy water will remove most of the the grime from your guitar. HOWEVER, you must
take care with soapy water. It has a habit of soaking into any exposed wood and is very
good at working into cracks in the finish. Capillary action can draw water into a fine
crack with ease. The wood underneath can, and will, swell. And over time the crack will
get bigger. Capillary action can also draw water between the wood and the finish making
them separate over time.
So, if you are using soapy water to clean a guitar be
patient. Don't get lots of water on the guitar. Use a damp cloth only, not a dripping wet
one. Work in small areas and wipe it dry as you go. Avoid any cracks or splits in the
finish, including screw holes. Work around those areas very carefully using cotton buds.
Literally wipe around with the cotton bud and then wipe dry with kitchen roll. Resist the
temptation to soak dirty areas to get all the dirt in one hit. Wipe with the damp cloth
and dry the area several times if required.
Unless absolutely necessary avoid
solvents. Cellulose and French Polish are especially vulnerable, but even some polyester
and acrylic finishes can be dulled by them. The sticky residue from old stickers, gaffa
tape or sellotape might need a solvent to remove. Use the pads of your fingers to remove
as much as possible. Resist the temptation to use your fingernails or scrapers because
they can scratch or groove the finish. The good news with solvents is that they evaporate
quickly. If you work under an electric lamp, apply the solvent very sparingly with a
cotton bud, and quickly clean up with kitchen roll you are generally pretty safe. There
are proprietary solvent cleaners for removing sticky residues, but you need to check the
ingredients and instructions carefully. If you must use a solvent, I would recommend good,
old fashioned, petrol lighter fluid. Again, if there is a lot of residue to remove it is
best to remove it in stages rather than soaking it. Finally, if you have had to use a
solvent, leave it for a good 24 hours before you attempt any restoration or polishing. You
want to to ensure that any solvent that has got into the finish has fully evaporated. If
you apply a coat of polish over fresh solvent you risk trapping the vapours so they can't
escape and there is the possibility that they can cause damage.
My preferred
cleaner is White Spirit. Simply because it is what is generally used to clean wood before
it is finished and between coats. If it is good enough for the guys who made your guitar
and applied the original finish, it's good enough for me. But again, if there is any
damage to the finish it is best to damped a cloth/kitchen roll with the White Spirit to
apply it and to make sure you wipe it off quickly.
OK, now your guitar is
clean.
POLISHING
Polishing is a NASTY word. Because it can
mean two completely different things which can cause a lot of confusion. One meaning is to
create or restore the original shine that is the final part of finishing the
paint/lacquer. As we are talking about cleaning guitars, not making new ones, I call that
Restoring the finish to avoid confusion. The most important thing to remember about
restoring a finish is that you use abrasives. Whether you use T-Cut, Brasso/Silvo (similar
to T-Cut but a finer grade of cut - Silvo is more aggressive than Brasso because silver is
a harder metal), Jewellers Rouge, Autosol paste, or Colgate tooth powder (yes, that is an
abrasive too. I was taught the trick by an Indian Jeweller when I visited there and
brought a couple of large tins back with me), they are all abrasives and they work by
removing the finish. Every time time you use them, you are literally wearing the finish
away.
That newer than new, flawless, gleaming look can get addictive. But every
time you polish the scratches out you are taking 1/10th of a mm off the finish. And it is
irreversible. Learn to love your scratches and the character they add to your pride and
joy.
Polishing your guitar, just like polishing your car, is putting a nice,
shiny, protective coat on the finish. And just like polishing your car, you make sure it's
clean first. Applying a polish is NOT cleaning. If you carefully wipe down your guitar
with a clean cloth and then apply a polish, all you are doing is smearing a layer of
grease and dirt evenly across it and then sealing it in place with the polish. I have seen
guitars literally sweating and covered in condensation when they spent 10 minutes in
sunlight solely because they had been wiped down and polished regularly without being
cleaned 1st.
Personally, I'm not too bothered about polishing my guitars. I
prefer to wipe my hands before and after playing, and then wipe the guitar clean with a
clean duster. And when I change the strings I take the chance to give it a proper clean
with White Spirits.
OK, sorry to write such a long essay on such a simple
seeming topic. But a little extra understanding goes a long way and helps prevent long
term damage, especially where abrasives are concerned.
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
DaveA
Joined: 11/02/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Macclesfield, Cheshire
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720509 - 26/03/09 10:36 AM
|
|
|
Cheers Andy,
A brilliant post. Certainly learned a lot from that.
Thanks.
-------------------- www.myspace.com/462759481
|
Dan Bo
Joined: 20/07/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Oxford
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720513 - 26/03/09 10:41 AM
|
|
|
Fantastic post Andy, Very informative and concise, i was riveted. Any chance
of a fret board and fret dressing/crowning myth buster type one?...or is that a bit cheeky
to ask 
Thank you
Dan
-------------------- Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#720778 - 27/03/09 02:38 AM
|
|
|
Cheers guys,
and it's never too cheeky to ask Dan. However, it is a pretty
broad subject to pin down. Any specific queries or questions to get me started?
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
Dan Bo
Joined: 20/07/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Oxford
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: zenguitar]
#720811 - 27/03/09 09:18 AM
|
|
|
Cool Thanks Zen,
In keeping with the thread lets start with "keeping fretwire
clean"
We've all seen the green stuff come of them where something(sweat?) has
obviously oxidised with them. I'm aware of some fret cleaning kits but these are like very
fine sandpaper, which i suppose cant be good over a long period of time, can it?
I'm a very sweaty handed man (ooo eer) so i need to clean my fretboard more than most i
guess.......and you cant beat shiny things 
Thanks
Dan
-------------------- Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: Dan Bo]
#721088 - 28/03/09 03:37 AM
|
|
|
Quote Dan Bo:
...and you cant
beat shiny things Dan
All that glitters is not Gold!!! And,
in all seriousness, don't equate shinyness with godliness. Clean enough is good enough.
There is nothing wrong with stuffing a bar towel in your waistband and wiping your palm
dry between, or even during, songs. Prevention is better than cure.
If your
frets really do get all gunged up, cut a fret width slot in a piece of plastic (to use as
a mask) and give the frets a light polish with Brasso to de-gunk them.
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
-----
active member
Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 5988
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: zenguitar]
#721104 - 28/03/09 09:37 AM
|
|
|
Quote zenguitar:
cut a fret
width slot in a piece of plastic (to use as a mask)
I prefer the Zorro type masks - a lot more stylish than piece of
plastic!
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: -----]
#721239 - 29/03/09 12:46 AM
|
|
|
Quote Wonkey Wabbit:
Quote zenguitar:
cut a fret
width slot in a piece of plastic (to use as a mask)
I prefer the Zorro type masks - a lot more stylish than piece of
plastic!
Of course, that's because you
aren't as handsome as me 
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
Dan Bo
Joined: 20/07/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Oxford
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#721399 - 29/03/09 09:56 PM
|
|
|
Thanks Zen, if we are talking masks i must say i prefer a cowl 
I thought i'd post some pics of what my hands have done to one
of my guitars, Its an old Yamaha se312 with a maple neck, i've had it for the last 15
years but was my only guitar for about 4 years and was in good condition before i got my
mits on it. I realise this is not that heavilly reliced considering some famous
guitars but it only seen home use.

The picture make it not look so bad, lol

Rust is a major problem for me
The neck if faily worn but its the most
comfortable neck out of all my guitars but i think the frets are going in some places.
Just thought i'd share.
Dan
Apologies for the image
size/quality.
-------------------- Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#721418 - 29/03/09 11:40 PM
|
|
|
Thanks for the pics Dan. You do have it bad mate, I'm sorry. I've not seen many guitars
worse than that. A nasty case of poor man's Midas Touch, every thing you touch turns to
rust...
The pic of the trem and pick-up shows it up best.
One of my
next tool acquisitions will be an Ultrasound tank specifically to deal with parts like
that. It's been on my shopping list for quite a while. Jewellers use them to clean
jewellery and watch cases, but they are also used in industry to remove rust and other
oxides. Jewellers tend to use them for simple cleaning using either water or a very mild
ammonia solution. There are special solutions available for rust and oxide removal in
industry but it is difficult to find them in small quantities.
Anyway, I the
bad news is that I can't help with a cure for the problem. As there are others who have
the same problem it would seem to be related to your body chemistry, but I have no idea
what, if any, research has been done into this. It affects plenty of others so it might be
worth investigating in greater detail. I have disturbing mental images of you on stage
with a lab coated nerd following your every move with a test tube to collect sweat samples
for analysis... scary!! But if 'they' could work out was in your sweat and what mechanism
in your body produced it there could be a solution. Possibly something as simple as a
change in diet. I very much doubt that any of the drug companies would see a big enough
market to develop a new drug, but you never know, there might be an existing drug with a
proven side effect that could solve it. And if you are really lucky that drug could be
Viagra!!
However, I can help with a strategy for getting rid of the worst and
keeping it away in the future as well as helping you protect new guitars.
Any
corroded part that can be safely removed can be cleaned or replaced. The trem fine tuners
and saddle grub screws maybe available as spares, you can certainly get scratch plate
screws and pick-up mounting screws easily enough. You might be able to get them cleaned
using ultrasound and a suitable solution with a little research. Possibly enquire around
antique restorers, scientific instrument or clock restorers whether they can have it done
for you or can introduce you to someone they use. For things like pick-up pole pieces that
cannot be removed try using something like a felt polishing point in a Dremel or similar
to remove the rust. Once the rust etc has been removed you could carefully apply a
commercial rust inhibitor of some sort but be careful to check how safe it is on the
guitar finish, pick-up bobbins, etc.
Finally, re-assemble using a small amount
of 3in1 oil or sewing machine oil to protect metal on metal threads and protect screw
heads, fine tuner buttons, pick-up pole pieces, with clear nail varnish as a protective
layer. And whenever you change the strings take the chance to lubricate the threads and
check the nail varnish. You will need to seal the screw heads after you have completed
your set-up, so it might be worth wearing cheap latex gloves if you do your own. And the
nail varnish will come off easily enough if you need to make any adjustments, just
remember to apply a new dab after.
The final step is also good for new guitars
too.
Hope that helps Dan.
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
Dan Bo
Joined: 20/07/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Oxford
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: zenguitar]
#733028 - 08/05/09 01:39 PM
|
|
|
Sorry for the uber late response Zen been away from the forum for a while, many thanks for
the tips i will put them into practice as i've not long bought an Ibanez with a floyd rose
that i think will benefit from such tips as the nail polish on bits etc.Which brings me to
another question:
Is there a way to buff a rosewood fretboard??
My
brother has the same Ibanez (i bought my one so he could have his back) and mine has a
sort of shine on the fretboard (it seems more buffed) while his is a lighter colour and
more open pored as it were, his looks lovely after some lemon oil but it seems to dry out
more quickly or look as though it does, where as mine looks as fresh and sheen as a sheeny
fresh thing. I only ask as i find the shine better on my sweaty mitts, which is
strange as on all my maple neck guitars the sweat sits on top (and sometimes flicks in my
face on vigerous bending which is yuck but very playable) and my other rosewood boards it
soaks in leaving playing dry causes fingers to not feel as smooth on bends etc..
Hope this all makes sense, and thanks again for the detailed responses, they are very
much appriciated.
Dan
-------------------- Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
|
zenguitar
active member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 4007
Loc: Devon
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#733216 - 09/05/09 12:22 AM
|
|
|
Cheers Dan,
The fretboards are a difficult call. It's possible that they are
completely different species within the rosewood family, or the same species but with very
different grain. So there's a chance that they will never come out the same.
One possibility is that your brother's guitar's fretboard has dried out a lot. So,
something that's worth a try is to give it a good soak in lemon oil overnight and let it
suck up as much as it can. Then, use a yellow duster to buff the fretboard clean. It's not
something you should do often, but certainly worth a try. The wood will only absorb what
it can naturally handle. One positive is that it will ensure the frets are well seated,
but there is a very slight risk that it could take on a small back bow and need a truss
rod adjustment.
Andy
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.
|
Stonehousestudio
active member
Joined: 01/07/03
Posts: 1195
Loc: Exeter
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: zenguitar]
#733238 - 09/05/09 07:18 AM
|
|
|
You all need to read this,especially rule number 8!
Captain Beefheart's Ten
Commandments For Guitarists 1. LISTEN TO THE BIRDS That's where all the music comes
from. Birds know everything about how it should sound and where that sound should come
from. And watch hummingbirds. They fly really fast, but a lot of times they aren't going
anywhere.
2. YOUR GUITAR IS NOT REALLY A GUITAR Your guitar is a divining rod.
Use it to find spirits in the other world and bring them over. A guitar is also a fishing
rod. If you're good, you'll land a big one.
3. PRACTICE IN FRONT OF A BUSH Wait
until the moon is out, then go outside, eat a multi-grained bread and play your guitar to
a bush. If the bush doesn't shake, eat another piece of bread.
4. WALK WITH THE
DEVIL Old delta blues players referred to amplifiers as the "devil box." And they were
right. You have to be an equal opportunity employer in terms of who you're bringing over
from the other side. Electricity attracts demons and devils. Other instruments attract
other spirits. An acoustic guitar attracts Casper. A mandolin attracts Wendy. But an
electric guitar attracts Beelzebub.
5. IF YOU'RE GUILTY OF THINKING, YOU'RE OUT
If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning
man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something that
is fur bearing.
6. NEVER POINT YOUR GUITAR AT ANYONE Your instrument has more
power than lightning. Just hit a big chord, then run outside to hear it. But make sure you
are not standing in an open field.
7. ALWAYS CARRY YOUR CHURCH KEY You must
carry your key and use it when called upon. That's your part of the bargain. Like One
String Sam. He was a Detroit street musician in the fifties who played a homemade
instrument. His song "I Need A Hundred Dollars" is warm pie. Another church key holder is
Hubert Sumlin, Howlin' Wolf's guitar player. He just stands there like the Statue of
Liberty making you want to look up her dress to see how he's doing it.
8. DON'T
WIPE THE SWEAT OFF YOUR INSTRUMENT You need that stink on there. Then you have to get that
stink onto your music.
9. KEEP YOUR GUITAR IN A DARK PLACE When you're not
playing your guitar, cover it and keep it in a dark place. If you don't play your guitar
for more than a day, be sure to put a saucer of water in with it.
10. YOU GOTTA
HAVE A HOOD FOR YOUR ENGINE Wear a hat when you play and keep that hat on. A hat is a
pressure cooker. If you have a roof on your house the hot air can't escape. Even a lima
bean has to have a wet paper towel around it to make it grow.
-------------------- http://www.analogue-to-digital.comhttp://www.vintageguitarfair.com
|
Dan Bo
Joined: 20/07/07
Posts: 263
Loc: Oxford
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#733456 - 10/05/09 11:00 AM
|
|
|
Many Thanks guys
Stonehouse: Fantastic set of rules for guitar and life me
thinks 
Thanks zen for the "board" advice, i will have to track down an
ebony board and see if my hands agree with it or disagree it....more guitar shopping. yay

Dan
-------------------- Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
|
audiomatic
Joined: 30/04/09
Posts: 245
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#734597 - 13/05/09 09:58 PM
|
|
|
Stonehouse: What about Rule No. 11 - A new guitar still thinks it's a tree!
|
audiomatic
Joined: 30/04/09
Posts: 245
|
Re: Cleaning a guitar
[Re: DaveA]
#734611 - 13/05/09 10:34 PM
|
|
|
BoDan: From the pictures, the action on your Yamaha looks really high and the frets appear
to be worn flat on top (do you do a lot of string bending?). I think you mentioned that
you've had the guitar for 15 years, but not whether you play it often enough to have worn
the frets to nubs. Have you raised the action to eliminate fret buzz that may have
resulted from worn (flat-topped) frets? I would suggest fret leveling, recrowning and
polishing, but you don't appear to have enough frets left to work with. If it were my
guitar, I would refret it with jumbos, level the frets, recrown them and smooth them out
with 600 grit, then 1500 grit sand paper; otherwise I couldn't play it. In my experience
(opinion), corrossion resulting from sweat doesn't affect playability or tone, only
aesthetics (and mechanics in the case of the tremolo). Except for parts that are plated
with gold, I wouldn't sweat too much about sweat (Rule No. 8). The part of the fret that
is contacted by the string will be as clean as a baby's bottom (not speaking from any
personal, relevant experience, of course).
|