Need some new guitar cables for the first time in awhile. Most likely will be getting the cable from Studiospares. Will have a look first of course, but wondered if anyone had experience of the brands they sell. "Europa", "Sommer" and "Klotz" are the three brands they stock. They seem to favour the Sommer Spirit one - but maybe they have a lot of it they need to shift!

The klotz is a nice cable, but be warned it's slightly thicker, so if you want to use the Neutrik connectors you have to modify them a little. I snipped off one of the three 'prongs' on the plastic cable gripper part to make them fit.

I have a soft spot for Klotz only because I bought a substantial (to me) length of it a long tome ago and am still using those leads that haven't been lost or stolen.

I must say I haven't noticed that problem with the Neutriks and they would be my plug of choice.

Sommer and Van Damme seem to have become more prominent in the intervening centuries.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

I have a pair of Klotz cables, but they're not the ones that Studiospares do. Mine are the LaGrange cables. A 3m one going to my pedal board and another 3m one going to the amp. That's plenty long enough for me - I can only just about sing and play whilst stood still so I don't wander too far!

Compared to the (pretty decent) cables I was using before, a whole lot more top end sparkle started coming through.... The company market them as having very low capacitance per meter so as the higher frequencies don't get rolled off so much.

They are certainly brighter which folks will either like or not - I personally like it....

I'm currently making patch leads for my pedal board of doom and I too am looking for a great quality cable that I can get by the meter - the LaGrange would be my first choice but for the fact it comes with 2 straight jacks on it that I just don't need

thanks guys, Klotz was the one I had heard of, althought the Somner looked good. Might just have a "feel" - that's a very scientific method I know to ascertain cable quality, ahem.

I was planning on the Neutrik connectors, don't want to have to modify though - did that with my last batch of cable, worked fine, just hoping not to have to this time.

anyway main thing is nobody seems to be saying "stay away" from any of those brands.
cheers

I just use this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/stereo-double-shielded-microphone-cable-98022< br />
Or something like it.
Dave.

Klotz+Neutrik…no doubts!

That's about 30p/m more than the Klotz cable Dave! About 30p/m cheaper than the Somner though. Thing is I live near Studiospares and I would rather give my money to those guys than Maplins so that slight price diff makes no odds really.

Either Klotz or Sommer

J

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www.jackruston.com

Quote fletcher:

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I was planning on the Neutrik connectors, don't want to have to modify though - did that with my last batch of cable, worked fine, just hoping not to have to this time.

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There's always the switchcraft ones.

Made the leads. I have 4m left for future pedal connections etc.

Went for the Somner Spirit over the Klotz AC110. Neutrik jacks.

The main differences, Klotz was stiffer. Somner had more strands on the centre conductor, 28 x .15mm against 7 X .2mm. I thought (possibly mistakenly) that this might be desirible for the strength of the connection. The Studiospares catalogue mistakenly has the screen of the Somner as lapped (in the tick box but not in the text), it's not, it's a spiral wound one. As is the Klotz one. Just in case anyones interested.

Cables sound good, slightly brighter I think than my old cables. I think:)

My only problem these days is I need a good sunny day to do my soldering - eyes not what they were!

I think you will find Fletcher that "lapped" and "spiral wound" are much the same thing in that they are not braided and the latter is to be prefered for cables that get a hard life.

You might also consider getting one of these?...


http://www.amazon.co.uk/SPECTRUM-FLOOR-STANDING-NATURAL-THERAPY/dp/B00661S UQS/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1343563562&sr=8-9

Dave.

It seems that guitar cables are one of the very few places in musical audio where different cables really do sound different! Does this indicate a basic design flaw in the guitar/amp interface? Or do guitarists embrace and use the differences, as they do the "distortions" of valve amps?

A very complex area E.W. caused by a single, simple parameter (and a good helping of BS,adpuff and snake oil selling techniquies!) that of capacitance. That is all a guitar cable has got that makes any difference at all to the sound of the guitar.

The problem is that this capacitance is coupled to a very complex source impedance composed of inductors, capacitors and variable resistors. Usually at least two inductors, switched or mixed, often three and the setting of volume and tone pots makes the source Z impossible to define in any meaningful way. So a lead of X mtrs and thus Y capacitance will cause guitar ON ONE SETTING to sound brighter or dulller than another lead, even one of the same length if it has a different capacitance.

Note. The input Z of amplifiers is almost set in stone as a few tens of kilOhms shunted by about 120picofarads and 1megOhm to deck. The input Z of AIs, mixers and DIs on mic pres' can however be anything from 100k to 10meg!

I am willing bet (bottle of scotch?) that if you had two leads that sound very different on a SPECIFIC guitar they could be made to sound indistiguishable by adding capacitance to the one with the lower value.

Despite all the hype however it is rare for a cable to alter the HF response beyond the "grab" of a tone pot.

Dave.

Yes! That's what I need Dave. Might get one of those soon.

As to the screen, maybe it is braided then. I get confused with the terminology. What I meant was it wasn't one of those screens which seem to loosly wind around the inner conductor. You had to "unpick" it a bit. I have some older cables I made up which had a double braid, that is two screens on top of each other. Very strong, good screen, but too stiff for my liking. Also found I had to modify the plugs as they were slightly too thick. 10 years old now though and still going strong, just they are only 3m long. Not long enough for live shows. Hence the new cables, which I wanted to have a bit more flex but hopefully still be quite strong. They did their first show last night, seem fine. If they don't last I will let you know. It wont be the soldering that goes though, I did my bit well.:)

thanks

oh and I once tried to make a guitar cable out of some Van Damme instrument cable (single core) I have. It had a capacitance of 110pf/m. It didn't work, sucked all the tops off. The guitar cables have a 70pf/m rating. That little bit less seems to make all the difference. So I'm sure your right Dave, it is all down to the capacitance of the cables.

I still have about 80m of that cable left - doh! - didn't even use it in the home studio as I used balanced cable throughout.

E.W. You said "Does this indicate a basic design flaw in the guitar/amp interface?" IMHO? Yes!

But the first guitar amps were basically just the arse end of a radio set, a triode and a pentode and the gain and 4 watts or so it produced was well able to keep up with a piano, acoustic bass, a snare and a hi-hat in a jazz band. Then, the guitarist generally had the amp at his knee and was seated, a 6foot lead was plenty. So the pickups were wound with enough wire to directly drive the amp (which, incidentally had a 1meg impedance for a totally different reason! THAT egg came before the guitar chicken!).
As people wanted higher gain, more powerful amps, longer leads the pup Z should have dropped to 600 Ohms or so and a transformer become a standard fitting in the amp. But it was only rock and roll and the "kids" just wanted loud and cheap. I have seen pictures of a Gibson low Z guitar but never a real one!

Fletcher: There are two possible solutions to "cables". If you use the guitar volume pot at all you can fit a compensating capacitor. Better still is a buffer chip in a tin on 1/2mtr of low capacitance cable clipped to your strap. You could then have 50mtr+ cables, no sweat.
Dave.

I'm ok for now Dave, that unused instument cable can stay in the cupboard for a rainy day (I did give some to a keyboard player, no problems for him). The guitar cable works fine. 6m is long enough for me.

One thing I remember reading in a guitar amp book, something about how when valves were new, one company produced example circuits of them in use (to boost sales), one of which was used by Leo Fender in his first amps. The book had a reproduction of the circuit in it. Different days. I guess it would be hard to change the design now it's such a standard, every guitarist on the planet knows they can plug into any amp at any venue/studio without anything in between. We don't care it seems, we like our amps to be vintage!

Quote fletcher:

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My only problem these days is I need a good sunny day to do my soldering - eyes not what they were!

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I'm considering one of these chaps:

http://mobile.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=47980

Two birds, one stone, etc.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

another good one.

I find bench magnifiers a trial since you have to keep job and head in perfect alignment.

I tend to just wear 2 sets of specs but if you don't want to look like a ***t this might be more acceptable.?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modelcraft-Headband-Magnifier-lenses-triple/dp/B00 0B8JNZ4/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1343630630&sr=8-9

You still need a good light of course, that LED thing is bog useless.

Dave.

And FWIW, I had a scout around a cable manufacturer's range a little while back, and found there was significant variation in cable capacitance. And the top-of-the-range cables actually had higher capacitance. Go figure.

ok proper light and some reading glasses will be the way.

As for the cables capacitance, I also noticed that the more heavily shielded cables had higher capacitance. Seems reasonable that the amount of metal in the shield would make a difference to the capacitance. As the top of the range are usually the heavy duty ones that might be why some of them have a worse spec in some ways. I suppose there might be a trade-off between strength & shielding / capacitance so you kind of have to pick "horses for courses".

the Somner cable I bought seemed perfect for my needs, I had no complaints.

One thing I was wondering (Dave you might know) is how the capacitance gets effected if you step on your leads? I know if a TV aerial co-ax cable gets stepped on it is often ruined as the capacitance alters, but of course thoses are UHF signals.

Grab: Yes "better" cable will probably have a thicker centre core and thus be in effect closer to the shield.
But as I said, it would be a poor amplifier that did not have enough tone control to lift the small treble loss a high capacitance cable would cause. Then almost all valve amps have an interstage attenuator/treble boost and any decent tech' should able to engineer in a bit of extra HF at that point.

Fletcher: Hoof damage? You would have to do a TV lead some serious damage, squash it flat, to have a noticeable effect on the signal ('cept here! I have perfect cables but NO bloody Olympics from the Beeb. They blame it on the weather.). Similarly a few dents in a guitar lead are going to do squat. Mind you! Treading on a data cable in a network lab is a sacking if not a hanging offence!

Dave.

well Dave I was told the opposite when it comes to aerial cable, but that might have been just to make sure we treated it with care:).

Kinking was worse, if you put a kink in the cable as you went around a corner it was spoilt. Maybe that was because the screen became damaged rather than changing capacitance (distance between conductors changing?). It's all become a bit of a blur now to be honest, but I remember several times people scratching their heads about their bad picture/reception, fiddling with aerials only to find the cable hads been damaged in installing.

of course totally OT sorry, I will now continue to step on my guitar leads as I always have done! It's the dance steps you see......

oh and Dave you should get freesat, once you get the dish it's free - HD channels etc. I can get about 25 channels of the Olympics that are otherwise only on the iplayer. You wont miss any of that beach volleyball, or the Dutch womens hockey team - one of my favourites!

Well yes Fletch', serious damage like a kink would probably drastically reduce a UHF signal, depends of course on the local field strength (we have always been the armpit of the Universe for reception) but I don't think a 10% reduction in OD one way from my size 12s would have a great deal of effect?

Freesat??? Sore point! I am being denied almost exclusively BBC programmes. BBC1,2,3,4,cbbc and cbeebies and radios 3 and 4. Most of the time the independants are perfect. I was denied virtually all of Wimbledon but could have watched Corrie, Hollyoaks and Big Brother till I puked. I have a £130 aerial installation feeding a 6 way Labgear amp and about £1000 worth of Freeview recieving and recording gear plus a Sony 32" Freeview telly. Why then should I now pay to have a dish erected and new tuner gear to feed everything? I am also not one of those that whinges about the license fee. Bloody good value I say, but not to me at the moment and has not been for most of 2012!
I am presently trying to get a letter published in Radio Times to see if others share my plight.

Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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Well yes Fletch', serious damage like a kink would probably drastically reduce a UHF signal, depends of course on the local field strength (we have always been the armpit of the Universe for reception) but I don't think a 10% reduction in OD one way from my size 12s would have a great deal of effect?

Freesat??? Sore point! I am being denied almost exclusively BBC programmes. BBC1,2,3,4,cbbc and cbeebies and radios 3 and 4. Most of the time the independants are perfect. I was denied virtually all of Wimbledon but could have watched Corrie, Hollyoaks and Big Brother till I puked. I have a £130 aerial installation feeding a 6 way Labgear amp and about £1000 worth of Freeview recieving and recording gear plus a Sony 32" Freeview telly. Why then should I now pay to have a dish erected and new tuner gear to feed everything? I am also not one of those that whinges about the license fee. Bloody good value I say, but not to me at the moment and has not been for most of 2012!
I am presently trying to get a letter published in Radio Times to see if others share my plight.

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Where are you? BBC engineers (like the remaining GPO telephone engineers) tend to be quite up-front about reception problems. A P.R. approach shouldn't be necessary.

If you're in a bad reception area, £130 for an aerial installation seems dead cheap. That's about the least you'd pay to get a man who knew what he was doing to put ANYTHING on your roof. Have you talked to your local professional aerial company? There are still a few, among the cowboys.

Sods Law E.W!

I have just checked and all BBC programmes are back up to a full green bar! (well, Beeb 4 is abit down but always was). Even radios 3 and 4 are glitch free. But it won't last.

My aerial was erected at least 5 years ago by firm I had used and recommended for 20years when I was in the TV trade. So £130, from a "mate" that long ago, 250quid now from a "pro"?

In any case, last year when Sandy went full power and analogue free I expected to lose my Labgear amp and run everything on a passive splitter! No such luck. I had even worse reception POST switchover than before! So I had the rigger up and he checked the field strength and pronounced it ok (well it was of course when he came!)No, I am convinced this IS co-channel interference but quite unlike that which bedevilled us with analogue. Sure, for bits of the summer and on very cold winter days, we would get patterning, French and other stations wandering thru', even on occaision complete station loss (usually CH 4 and ITV) but only for a day or so and usually not ALL day! This interference wipes BBC stations out completely, for days on end.I hate conspiracy theories but I fear there is something we are not being told here! Yes I could get a dish. Yes I could get cable, but I am bloody mad about this and want an answer!

Dave (the car MOT was not 1/2 as bad as suspected so I shall get another aerial man in for a second opinion)

I understand your frustration. I'm a bit spoiled, there is a communal aerial and sat dish where I live, so I got a set with in-built freesat as well as freeview. However I think you should bite the bullet and get a freesat set-up, after all it was set up for people who don't get a good freeview signal. It's not that pricey - set-top box and the dish install, in the long run you might be glad.

oh and those olympic extra channels are all HD - freesat 164 is womens beach volleyball as I type, quite nice........

Quote ef37a:

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My aerial was erected at least 5 years ago by firm I had used and recommended for 20years when I was in the TV trade

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So you know the trouble-shooting routine then! Let us know what it was?