Apart from the Nord Rack 3 of course...

Further to this thread, I recently had half an hour on a Nord Lead 3 and came to the conclusion that it was the culmination of parameter feedback on a hardware synth. Basically, just about every parameter (switches indicated by LEDs and variables indicated by LED collars around the encoders) is visible when you select a patch. Short of motorised knobs, this has to be the best way to understand what the patch parameters are that are making the sound you hear. Possibly better than motorised knobs if you turn the lights down



SOS review here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul01/articles/nordlead3.asp

So the question to the Forum: is there any other synth that does it this way, or a better way?

I recently got a Behringer BCR2000 which I have yet to try with hardware or software, and I guess you could argue that just about any well-designed VST gives you this benefit (although some have appalling graphics that really are not clear). But I am thinking about stand-alone hardware.

Limited research so far has turned up the Moog Phatties, but they are monophonic and with far less displayed parameters, and far less modulation options (but yes, that sound...)

I also appreciate that it is expensive technology, and that is why the NL3/NR3 are discontinued whilst the NL2x is still on sale.

Is there anything else out there that comes close?

Yes maybe the NL3 is discontinued and had a better interface but I still prefer the sound of the Nord Lead 2 and 1

The other synth that springs to mind is this over priced thing
http://johnbowen.com/solaris-overview.html

The depth of hyperbole on that website is astounding

Other than that just about every analogue synth without any patch memories

Oh also the DX-1, if Knight Rider would of killed people with synthesisers instead of talking cars that would of been it.

Thanks for your observations. Yes, any memory-less analogue would do the what-you-see-is-what-you-get trick. It is interesting that the advent of digital cameras/phones with cameras, has made the whole thing of remembering analogue synth patches much easier - just take a good photo and name it sensibly. I read somewhere that some pros used to do that with polaroid photos. Having said that, it is not exactly instant recall...
As for the Solaris, a bit beyond most peoples' piggy banks, and actually, as it uses a set of numeric readouts over the encoders, I doubt that it would be as visually immediate as the NL3, although it has huge depth http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun12/articles/john-bowen-solaris.htm

Interestingly, your post reminded me that there was an Akai synth that had a great bargraph parameter display, and a quick search turned it up here in an SOS retrospective: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/retrozone0602.asp

It was great to come across this and then read the concluding line:
The last few years have seen a return to ergonomic user interface design, and instruments like the Clavia Nord Lead 3, with its illuminating V-Pots, demonstrate the merits of Akai's innovative system. Had Akai persisted with this approach in the first place, or had the AX80 been a hit, perhaps we'd have got there a little sooner.

Sounds like we still are not there, or have we stopped trying, in the age of the VST?

I've can't imagine working with analogue synths in that "take a photo of where to set all the knobs" fashion -
either you know how to work the synth or you don't!

Such a method of "patch memory" seems not only extremely tedious, but also fairly unreliable -
for a start, several years later, compenents and calibration drift, and it probably won't sound identical to the photo anyways -
plus, if you don't understand what each knob does, you won't have a clue how to tweak the sound to fit in with the piece of music you're currently working on and have recalled the sound for.

#synthBigot

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Feline, it doesn't appeal to me either, I guess it is just that, if it is important to remember some patch setting from a few years ago, a photo is maybe a better starting point than a human memory. The real question is whether it would ever be vital to recall a specific analog patch anyway... if you are a "true analog" type person, you are probably just going to go after the sound you want each time.

That isn't really what drives me to ask the question about the NL3. I have some (to my ears) great-sounding VA's (Yamaha AN1X and Korg MS2000R). On some of the more complex onboard patches, I am left just gawping at a set of unhelpful knobs and wondering how that sound was made, particularly with the MS2000 which has some clever dual layering and sequences. The MS2000 also has an "original value" LED which lights as a knob passes through its programmed value, but only allows you to check one parameter at a time. When I was playing Mickey's NL3, although I didn't have much time to explore, most of the parameters were clear, including things like dedicated rate LEDs pulsing in time with the LFOs, so you can immediately see which LFO is making that swooshing noise. Even if it doesn't quite have the sound of the NL1/2 (I have read that opinion elsewhere, as well as above) an interface that communicates settings as clearly as the NL3 counts for a great deal. And I love an LED light show!

So before going after a relatively expensive discontinued model, I was wondering if there is anything else that takes a similar approach?

Hi all.

Seems as Bill has heard my version of events a few times I left this open to others but it looks as replies have slowed now so ill add a few points.

Re Vinyl Junkies post.

Martin raises two interesting points for me.

1 - He righfully states that any analogue without patch memories will do this for you. Made me laugh, this is exactly why I acctually swapped out my Juno 60 for a Juno 6 (Dirffrence being for anyone not knowing is patch memories and DCB on the 60. Everything else is the same)
But what was the point of these memories on the 60 then the slider didnt line up with anything anymore?? Argggg!! The whole concept to me was pointless.

But, as much as me and VJ dont see eye to eye on many things, I cannot doubt his ability as a musician or his knowledge. And even he can only offer you pre patch memory analogues as an alternative to the NL3. Mad isnt it. So basically bill, I personally cannnot think of anything either, if you want a knob laden synth with easy control like a pre patch memory analogue its either that, or the NL3.

Yes, I am absolutly gobsmacked the design didnt catch on. It baffles me as much as how no one but Roland could be bothered to add a TV/Monitor output to their sampler rage. Not even the last ever Emu that has so many features to cram into a tiny display it was bloody odvious to a blind man on a galloping horse.

2 - VJ / Martin also mentions that the NL1 and 2 sound better than the 3. Im sorry but I think this is a daft thing to say. Thats like me saying trance music is better than rock. Yeah in thw world of kolakube maybe. There are people out there who far better prefer the 3 and thouse who loose sleep arguing over the 2 being far better than the 2x, but then we live in an age when we argue over anything as its so easy to do thanks to forums.

I would say what sounds good to one does not sound good to another.

I will agrre with VJ that there is a distinct diffrence between NL1,2 and the 3. Quite simply becasue the 1 and 2 are designed to be virtual analogue synths where as the 3 doesnt even mention this. I honestly think it sounds more FM than analogue so whatever floats your boat. he NL3 has a certain charicter that sets it apart and like all charicters, some will like them, some wont.

So to summerize, the NL3 sounds no better than a mouth organ until you introduce a listener. Then each listener will make diffrent opinions.



It sounds to me Bill what draws you to the NL3 is the interface. And it also sounds like you liked the sound yourself. The bottom line is there is no modern day alternative to that interface.

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Thanks Mickey

Yes, it is very much the interface as well as the sound. There are many great-sounding VAs out there, but it seems like only the NL3 has *that* interface. I was kind of hoping someone might say "oh yeah, behringer/novation did something like that on their much under-rated synova-klanger of 2006, available for around £240 on ebay" but no... of course not...

I have come to the conclusion that the NL3 was a synth design classic, apparently not matched or likely to be repeated. I have also come to the conclusion that I could probably spend the kind of money, being (rightly) asked for used examples, on a number of items that would better complete my home studio. So I will resign the NL3/NR3 to the further end of the wishlist, and keep an eye out for it on SOS/Ebay/Gumtree... maybe a bargain will pop up.

Thanks all for your comments.

Bill

Whilst not the same, the Waldorf XT (or XTk) has endless encoders which show their position on an LCD screen (IIRC) and you don't get the issue of the sound jumping to where the knob is (like on a Nord Lead 2).

The Korg Prophecy, whilst a little light on the knobs has a function that the knob only starts to work once it has reached the stored position (on internal patches).

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Mickey I should of said I prefer the sound of the NL2 to the 3, neither one sounds better but there are slight differences (obviously)
I write these things in a rush, I didn't mean to say one sounds crap etc

I like the NL3 a lot and I think the user interface is great, you know how frustrated I am by modern manufacturers now days making great synths with terrible user interfaces.

As Mr. Royale with cheese says the Waldorf's have endless encoders, this also applies to the beast Waldorf Q and it's little brother Micro Q, they also have a button where you can move the encoders and it shows the value but doesn't change it when you move the knob.
The Blofeld is also pretty good... Graphical menus, envelopes, routing graphs etc on every screen as you adjust knobs

Edited by vinyl_junkie (01/08/12 10:42 AM)

Quote:

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There are many great-sounding VAs out there, but it seems like only the NL3 has *that* interface. I was kind of hoping someone might say "oh yeah, behringer/novation did something like that on their much under-rated synova-klanger of 2006, available for around £240 on ebay" but no... of course not...

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Novation Nocturn controller (about 70 quid) gives you 8 rotary encoders with LED collars, and works with pretty much all softsynths.

There's also the Nocturn keyboard, which despite being newer, has recently been discontinued. I just got one off the Bay of E.

Fraid I don't know of anything in terms of standalone hardware. As you say, "it is very much the interface as well as the sound", and IMHO the better-designed soft synths now have interfaces that p*ss all over most standalone hardware. Hence the need for decent controller, and the Nocturn is the best I found, so far.

Quote:

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Mickey I should of said I prefer the sound of the NL2 to the 3, neither one sounds better but there are slight differences (obviously)
I write these things in a rush, I didn't mean to say one sounds crap etc

I like the NL3 a lot and I think the user interface is great, you know how frustrated I am by modern manufacturers now days making great synths with terrible user interfaces

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Totally understand mate (I struggle by with an iPhone - SOS app please :] )


My point being. Synths sound differnt but the individual decides if any good or not.

Sick to death of using Adamski as the odvious exapmle. Lo fi C64/Amiga 8 bit quality SQ80 gave him an edge. I know you agree with me on that one.



So Bill,

Can we conclude the NL3 idea had gone now?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote:

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IMHO the better-designed soft synths now have interfaces that p*ss all over most standalone hardware. Hence the need for decent controller, and the Nocturn is the best I found, so far.

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Eeek!!

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Any ideas for better controllers welcomed...

Sorry brother,

but I fear you have breeched the point of no return and your physical hardware soul is lost now forever more in a virtual clone like but easy world of musical sin. A world where everyone uses the exact same methods, using the exact same 5 or 6 choices of software, following the exact same tutorials to produce music that sounds like everyone else.

The choice of controller will only perpetuate that.

Break now, renounce the computer and return to the flock of the richous who dare to be individual and in a few years time will inherit the world of electronic music once more as people tire more and more of sypposidly live performing T.W.A.L.T. DJs and musicians.

I will pray for you. It is not to late for your individuality.

Come. Return to the flock. Renounce the controller and by an MPC!!

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote Kolakube:

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A world where everyone uses the exact same methods, using the exact same 5 or 6 choices of software, following the exact same tutorials to produce music that sounds like everyone else.

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Hi,

If someone is sufficiently weak-minded to write music that sounds like everyone else's, they'll likely do so anyway, irrespective of what gear is involved

Quote:

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The choice of controller will only perpetuate that.

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It is my quest to find user interface / workflow that lets me express myself, to the greatest degree possible. Right now, that appears to involve software running on a computer, with several big screens and various control surface units. Maybe something better will come along in the future. Either way, for me, life's just too short to be ar*sing about peering into tiny dim displays on old hardware synths, and spending ages faffing with up+down keys to page thru complicated and/or sh*itty menu systems.

But if some folk want to do that, then fair enough. Each to their own.

Quote:

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Break now, renounce the computer and return to the flock of the richous who dare to be individual

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There's really no need to use old crap in order to be "individual". Indeed, using old crap might well encourage certain people to make the same old stuff that was previously made using the old crap, back in the day.

But as I said above, this needn't be the case. Folk can be "individual", irrespective of what gear they use.

Quote:

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It is not to late for your individuality.
[...]
Come. Return to the flock.

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Hmm, first you suggest being "individual", then suggest joining a flock! These seem somewhat at odds...

Quote:

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by an MPC!!

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Already have two. They make excellent metronomes / clicks when playing drums live

Quote:

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The Blofeld is also pretty good

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Yeah, been looking at that. Capable synth, lovely design for its size.

Quote:

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Can we conclude the NL3 idea had gone now?

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Erm, no, not entirely...

Quote:

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Novation Nocturn controller (about 70 quid) gives you 8 rotary encoders

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Great value, but only 8... so lots of 'paging' presumably?

Quote:

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Any ideas for better controllers welcomed...

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Not sure how they compare functionally, still haven't used mine in anger, but the Behrigner BCR2000 offers 32 encoders and 16 switches
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/behringercontrollers.htm

Quote:

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I will pray for you. It is not to late for your individuality. Come. Return to the flock.

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To quote Hitch-hikers' Guide to the Galaxy, when Deep Thought goes off into a bit of a rant "This is getting needlessly messianic..."

Hi chris

A few points to your reply.

1. No one is on about using old crap. Not that I'd put a Juno 6 in the bracket of crap by the way. If people can't get newer sounds out of old gear the problem usually lies with the operator. The NL3 is just as capable as any VST.
2. Can you name me a modern day artist or genre that is considered underground or original sounding. Perhaps I'm getting old, but individualism isn't the order of the day any more.
3. Production values have never been so high these days . Tracks are polished so highly even crap music sounds amazing as long as you use a few of the right scales n chords, you can't go wrong. Hence how people knock out highly polished music every two weeks. Of course with even kids with a passing interest in music these days having access to infanite everything thats a lot of music. And everything YOU or anyone else releases gets burried in the landslide.
4. This is the keyboard forum man. At least let us hardware types have a single percent of the SOS forum. Pritty please. Thread starter bill doesn't want or ask about a kaky VST. (unless in mistaking as I can't see first thread whilst typing on this damn iPhone)

Lastly I will say, it's a well know repeat of musical history that those with unique approaches, get remembered longer. 99% of acts these days use a Laptop and a kaos pad, no matter how good the music they are very dull to watch. It's a machine used for face book and email for goodness sake.

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote BillB:

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On some of the more complex onboard patches, I am left just gawping at a set of unhelpful knobs and wondering how that sound was made...

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Try MIDIQuest. Computer based editor. Has a graphical interface. I find it very good. It'll show you where the knobs are set.

I don't get this hardware evangelism. Use both!

For example I have NI Komplete, and a Roland V-Synth. On the face of it, there's duplicated functionality. However, each one facilitates creativity in different ways.

That said, I sold all my analogue synths 3 years ago when the prices got silly. Paid for an inspiring holiday in Florence.

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

Quote Kolakube:

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Can you name me a modern day artist or genre that is considered underground or original sounding. Perhaps I'm getting old, but individualism isn't the order of the day any more.

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It's tricky! But there are plenty of people making unoriginal music right now using old crap. ( ie. your "flock" )

Quote:

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This is the keyboard forum man. At least let us hardware types have a single percent of the SOS forum.

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AIUI it's "Keyboards and Synthesis", and much synthesis is done using computers.

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kaky VST

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I certainly hope not too many people use those!

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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the Waldorf's have endless encoders, this also applies to the beast Waldorf Q and it's little brother Micro Q

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Yep. The Waldorf method was/is one of the better plans. Nevertheless, you have to touch an encoder to see its value on the display. So would be nice to have LED collars as well.

I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure some has done a virtual editor on the ipad for the Waldorf Microwave 1, so all parameters will be shown on screen like a VST not to mention multi touch bla from the pad of eye

I think there were people discussing one for the Blofeld too albeit if I wanted total computer integration of the Blofeld I'd just buy the Largo plug in as it's pretty much the same thing minus the crap build quality or poor encoders or rubbish flaky output the Blofled has

Edited by vinyl_junkie (02/08/12 11:35 AM)

Chris - re the earlier Waldorfs, quite right. Also the values are shown numerically rather than graphically. Even the expensive Sirius, noted above, uses this method and it really doesn't much interest me. If numbers were so good at conveying information, spreadsheets would never have developed charts and graphs as ways of displaying amounts of stuff. The Blofeld display looks really good (considering the cost) and there is even a freeware VST editor out there.

Tomas, thanks for the MIDIQuest suggestion. I have an old version which I have been thinking about upgrading, but I have to say it doesn't always have the most inspiring or communicative of graphic interfaces, probably limited by the fact that it aims to work with such a huge number of MIDI devices. But it is worth a look as the latest version can work as a VST within a DAW. Not sure how well it is being kept up to date...

Mickey, be calm, there are many paths to enlightenment

The distinction between hard and soft synthesis has become nicely blurred to my mind. It all started with MIDI, of which I am a great fan (Dave Smith, we are not worthy...) which has made an effective transition from hard into soft synthesis. You can control soft synths from hardware, you can load soft synths into 'hardware' VST hosts (single-purpose PCs like Muse Receptor) and Arturia's Origin blurs the boundary even more. Virtual Analogs from the 90's onwards are also just dedicated sound computers.

Mickey, even page 2 of the 1988 Ensoniq SQ80 manual says "Still, the fact remains that you have in your possession an extremely sophisticated computer device (disguised as a keyboard instrument) which is capable of performing an enormous number of tasks."

The conclusion so often reached on this Forum is "it's down to personal preference" and so it should be. I like PCs and VSTs - I love the fact that someone with a budget of £0 has access to stuff like Synth1, Crystal or Tyrell - that's real democratisation of synthesis. But I also love the idea of just flipping on a synth and mucking about with sound. That's where something like the NL3, which you could regard as a very complete control surface, with immediate parameter feedback, for a sophisticated soft synth (VA - what's the difference?) is so attractive.

Life is fun. It is also expensive sometimes.

Martin, didn't know that the Blofeld has encoder or output issues. Is this reported anywhere?

There's a lot of new artists using old synths and making very good, original music. People like Jacque Green, Boddika, Julio Bashmore. Its not all backward looking nostalgia.

I have the nocturn and its okay. Very badly made, flimsy thing. But it works if you have the patience to set it up. Its not creative or inspiring like playing with a Juno though.

Quote BillB:

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Martin, didn't know that the Blofeld has encoder or output issues. Is this reported anywhere?

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Yes their horrible out dated email based user forums where I used to get emails every day clogging up my inbox with people bitching about the encoders or the OS.

The new firmware is better though and has decreased the encoder sensitivity so it's a bit less jumpy, you can fix the issue totally by replacing them with better encoders or taking the current encoders apart and cleaning them with IPA (Not the beer lol)

There was reported issues with the outputs in loss of volume due to some bad resistors (It's very cheaply put together)
Mine went through a phase of low output and now seems to of fixed itself

The OS is true Waldorf... It's a work in progress lol But I have to say the new user beta OS is pretty good compared to the early releases

Edited by vinyl_junkie (02/08/12 11:56 AM)

I also believe Dave Smith received a lot of flack for the quality of the endless encoders used on his synths so much so he released "potted" versions with normal pots of the Prophet 08 and Evolver keyboards.

Personally I prefer pots over endless encoders any day

Check out quick rant lol

http://jexus.id.uw.edu.pl/syntezatory_prv_pl/dsi_mono_evolver.htm

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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I also believe Dave Smith received a lot of flack for the quality of the endless encoders used on his synths so much so he released "potted" versions with normal pots of the Prophet 08 and Evolver keyboards.

Personally I prefer pots over endless encoders any day

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I think sliders are much better. You can instantly see which position they are in and you can grab more than one with one hand.

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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I think there were people discussing one for the Blofeld too albeit if I wanted total computer integration of the Blofeld I'd just buy the Largo plug in as it's pretty much the same thing minus the crap build quality or poor encoders or rubbish flaky output the Blofled has

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I have XT and micro-Q and the encoders were fine (for me). I really liked them.

Also have Largo, and it sounds good, but has some bugs. Like other Waldorf products, as you say, it's a work-in-progress (with no obvious sign of any further progress ever being made).

Quote:

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Yes their horrible out dated email based user forums where I used to get emails every day clogging up my inbox

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Simply set your mail client to filter messages to specific mailing lists into specific folders. Nothing touches your inbox.

Quote:

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Personally I prefer pots over endless encoders any day

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Just not practical for me, as I need to recall stuff (and don't have time to faff).

Ok. You all enjoy your laptops n vsts. Urrrgggh!

Bill, I'm starting to become baffled. If your a fan of vsts and dont favour one over the other why spend a grand on a nord lead 3?

Instant recall is part and parcel of every daw /vst environment. Infact it goes way beyond what a NL3 can do as far as instant recall goes. Not only does it remember your settings and display them clearly it saves your eq, fx the lot. plus the NL3 is only 4 parts where as a daw / vst is good old infanite everything.

To view settings on a vst you just look at the individual vst and all it's perimeters are displayed?

I can see how a NL3 is great for a computer hater like me but what does it offer you you haven't all ready got?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Chris I also have a Micro Q and the encoders on that are ok on that, it's my second one I've had first one I got in 2003 and sold it after a few months then got one again and still have it.

Quote johnny h:

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I think sliders are much better. You can instantly see which position they are in and you can grab more than one with one hand.

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Makes sense - as long as they are motorised, so I can recall stuff

Quote Kolakube:

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I can see how a NL3 is great for a computer hater like me but what does it offer you you haven't all ready got?

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I use all kinds of synths; a Wavestation, a Nord Lead, an x0x, 383 and I also use various VSTs, Tassman, String Studio and the Cubase bundled ones. Each one has a different tone and that is the important factor, drawing from a pallette of sounds to create something. I just bought a JP8080 which I am awaiting, but I didn't need it, however it is hands on and will offer something different to what I already have and I've wanted one for 15 years.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote chris...:

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Quote johnny h:

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I think sliders are much better. You can instantly see which position they are in and you can grab more than one with one hand.

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Makes sense - as long as they are motorised, so I can recall stuff

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Or you could work out how to really understand the synth, then it's kind of obvious. Presets have their uses I guess to, as do samples. It depends on your level of involvement.

Eh ? I frequently recall synth patches (and indeed entire songs) I made previously. I do not want a load of sliders/pots in the wrong place.

WTF has that got to do with understanding a synth ??

Mickey

I do like both VST and hardware, and as I have said at points in this thread, not all VSTs have clear graphics although some, like say NI Massive (or - different approach - Fabfilter Twin 2) look to be very clear and communicative.

When the opportunity came to pull my various acquired toys out of cupboards and set up a little studio, it seemed like having the best of both worlds would be a good way to go - and NL3 seems to me to be the one of the best of the hardware world, for all the reasons listed above. Others might prioritise sound and argue for "pure analogue" - the DSI range seems to sound good, but again, panels full of knobs that don't match the sound you have just called up. Others might suggest that the Virus range "sounds best"... For me that is slightly less important than having a synth I can really understand, and learn from the (usually, but not always) great programmers who set up the factory and other sound sets. (I know that's a whole other debate right there). But with an instrument like the NL3, I am sure I would learn a lot from it. I think we have established that NL3 is pretty much unique in hardware terms.

Bill

Totally agree the NL3 is unique. I think this thread and the absence of any other suggestion prooves that. Its just you quite like VSTs, and your main reason for liking the NL3 is to be able to reverse engineer sounds you like afforded to you via the superb interface. I just think many VSTs cover that 100% and you could spend your money elseweher.

Previously, my advice was given to you as I thought you were a hardware first and foremost sort of guy. I mistakenly drew that conclusion by the fact you sold me a hardware keyboard, and we swapped many Emails re our hardware set ups. Had I know you thought equally of VSTs Id (for your own sake) pointed you to VSTs. They seem to satisfy your reverse engineer criteria.

I do get that this isnt the way you want to go and are adament you want a NL3.



Richie,

J80X0's are absolutly superb synths. I bought one of the first batch for sale in the UK. Not many sounds you cant make on a trusty JP. I wouldnt have one currently as I have a NL3 and there is too much overlap. As much as the JP sounds more analogue and the NL3 more FM, I still dont need the overlap. But Id highly recomend a JP to anyone. Your gonna love it!!!

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote chris...:

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Eh ? I frequently recall synth patches (and indeed entire songs) I made previously. I do not want a load of sliders/pots in the wrong place.

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Exactly why would they be in the "wrong" place? Surely a good synth will have its bits in the "right" place...

You recommend sliders. Let's say I have filter cutoff slider set to 1kHz. Then, I "recall" a patch I programmed earlier where filter cutoff is set to 3kHz. But the slider is still sitting at 1kHz - the wrong place. Same happens if I use any kind of automation to "record" the movement of the control.

This is a fundamental problem. In hardware, the good solutions I'm aware of are:

- motorised faders

- endless rotary encoders (preferably with LED collars)

But maybe you have some better ideas.

As already discussed, the above problem (controls being in the wrong place) affects both dedicated-hardware-synths and hardware-controlling-synths-running-on-a-computer in exactly the same way.

Quote Kolakube:

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Your gonna love it!!!

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I'm sure I am. I used one many years ago, around 2001 (a JP8000), I wanted one then!

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Start a thread and link me to it when you get it figured out mate. I could talk JP all day. It's on my top 5 ever synths along with Jupiter 4, NL3, 101/202 (same diff really) and if course an SQ80. Should perhaps squeeze a Juno 6 in there but am selling mine so perhaps not.
(Of course that's not mentioning samplers.)


Bill

I think bottom lining it if you want hardware your only choice is the NL3. Software (I can't help you) but I'm sure your aware of many

But your adamant you want hardware so there is only one choice. Ands it's hardly a compromise. Only problem is there expensive but they do hold there value.

So, you any closer to what you want to do?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)