I've been searching for a really good vocal mic that would work well for a punk rock/grunge band with a female singer that can handle some screaming from time to time. I've used some really cheap and terrible microphones in the past and I need something that I can actually play gigs with. Is there any good mic's you would recommend, that aren't extremely expensive?

Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

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AATranslator

Quote Runaway:

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Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

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or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.

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www.alterzero.com || "Semper in excremento sum... solum profunditas variat"

Quote Runaway:

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Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

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Minor qualification:

The improved top end on my beta58s didn't last forever but the improved midrange and overall integrity of sound is still apparent.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

+1 to all above but most important, try before you buy.

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Turn it down lads (but only a little bit)

I've often preferred either the SM or Beta 57 on female voices. Something to think about. Definitely go to a decent shop and ask to try as many mics as you can. £100 should be more than enough.

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www.sda-audio.co.uk

Quote Jabba1:

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or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.

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I'm a fan of these, and the C5 capacitor too if you want a bit more air (though feedback creeps in earlier with the latter). Definitely check out the D5 though, they cost less than a 58, sound better and look and feel like they'll take as much of a beating.

Cheers!

Chris

If the price of the '58 puts you off try these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000S5JKRQ/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=955093290 9&ref=asc_df_B000S5JKRQ

AKG D5

I have two of these and they work well. Someone on this forum described them as C*** proof so should be good for punk! ( no disrespect intended - just saying lol )

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The PSR

best thing i did was get away from shures , i had 58 , 58a and betas for years .. then saw the light .
Try a Samson Q8 they about 60 quid..
if you wanna spend a bit more go EV 767 or even better is the 967..
please bear in mind , all voices are different , different mics suit different voices .
i think adidas samba are uncomfy , but my mate swears by em ......u know wot i mean

Quote Runaway:

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Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.

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On a related note, regarding the SM58.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

If you bought Tesco own-brand beans, but they were more expensive than the Heinz variety, you wouldn't stomach it (forgive the pun), but that's exactly the situation you're in if you buy an SM58.

Having said that, I do have an SM58 in my collection, for those foolish enough to request one, but on every occasion they'll swap to the EV/Audix/AKG once they've seen (read: heard) the light.

Edited by TheChorltonWheelie (15/02/13 07:02 AM)

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

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You've never used some of the PA's I've used then. The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Jabba1:

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Quote Runaway:

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Hmm, punk/rock, screaming, inexpensive, play gigs with....
Shure SM58 - takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking.
If you need a bit more 'tops' go for a Beta58

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or an AKG D5.... slightly better resistance to feedback than the 58... just as an alternative.

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Another recommendation for the D5. It also has a higher output than the 58 meaning less gain on the desk. They are an absolute bargain at £52 new! It's the best value live mic I've tried.

Sennheiser E935 and Audix OM7 are other very nice live vocal mics but they cost around £140 and £160 each.

The Shure Beta 58 is also a good mic but can sound harsh on certain voices! As with every mic it depends on the voice and setting that you will be using it.

Quote James Perrett:

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You've never used some of the PA's I've used then. The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.

James.

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+1

An SM58 will do all jobs acceptably. Other mics will do a job brilliantly, and other jobs badly. If you want a workhorse mic that you can shove on anything and get an acceptable sound out of it's a great mic.

However, if you want a mic specifically for vocal, then get your hands on a load of mics and test them on the vocal. Find which one works best for your vocal. Lots of great suggestions here for alternatives!

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Quote James Perrett:

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The finesse of the mics you mentioned is completely lost through some PA's while the SM58 still works fine. While the SM58 may not be the best mic for a given job, it will always get the job done acceptably - unlike just about any other mic I've tried. Other mics always have their weak spots and will sound unacceptably bad in some circumstances.
James.

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The finesse may well be lost through a cheap PA, but even without that finesse they'd still sound better than an SM58: the SM58 is so muffled, with little or no top end.

I'd be suitable impressed if you can find a situation where an EV767 would sound unacceptably bad, whilst the SM58 would provide acceptable results. I simply don't believe there is such a situation, infact I'd be absolutely staggered.

Let's not forget, we're talking about vocals mics.

I have around ten different vocal stage mics in my collection and, generally speaking, the SM58 is my least favourite. It is low fi compared to everything else, grainy and edgy. Which probably makes it a perfect choice for the OP's genre. If you require a mic which is less prone to feedback, not that the 58 is poor in this respect, then the Audix OM7 can take anything you throw at it, still has good cut and has by far the best feedback rejection I've come across.

There's some truth in James comment that an SM58 sort of works with any sound system. But this is fast becoming a myth as sound systems improve, however, it certainly accounts for its fine, but fast becoming outdated reputation.

Another reason the Beta and SM 58s will continue to be specified on riders is because there's so many alternatives available it would be hit and miss to specific anything other than the lowest common denominator.

My advice to any vocalist is to find the mic that best suits your voice, buy it and travel with it.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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On a related note, regarding the SM58.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an SM58 these days. There are far better alternatives at the same price (or less in most cases) point, all of which are as reliable as the SM58, and the notion that it's a "known quantity" can only be utter nonsense as that "quantity" is extremely poor when compared to an EV767, D5, OM5 etc, etc.

If you bought Tesco own-brand beans, but they were more expensive than the Heinz variety, you wouldn't stomach it (forgive the pun), but that's exactly the situation you're in if you buy an SM58.

Having said that, I do have an SM58 in my collection, for those foolish enough to request one, but on every occasion they'll swap to the EV/Audix/AKG once they've seen (read: heard) the light.

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Because

* they really suit some voices
* they really suit some voices and some performers have the SM58 art perfected.
* many people are happy with a good old friend in new environments
* you can bang in proud floorboard nails with them
* riders

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PA stuff on FB

Quote Guy Johnson:

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* they really suit some voices
* they really suit some voices and some performers have the SM58 art perfected.
* many people are happy with a good old friend in new environments
* you can bang in proud floorboard nails with them
* riders

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Some valid points, but, there's still absolutely no evidence that an SM58 can out-perform other microphones in certain situations, it simply isn't the case. Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

And I've absolutely never had a voice that "suited" an SM58, that then didn't sound better/richer/more detailed with a replacement like the 767, D5, OM5/7 etc.

The SM58 Beta is a different proposition, I do have one, and it does get regular use, but it's a better mic because it's closer to those others mentioned with it's better mid/top-end detail, i.e. less like a standard SM58.

I agree with much of what has been said about SM58s - I don't own any among my far-too-large selection of vocal mics as, whatever the voice, I've always found that I have something in the box that will do the job better. (That said, they used to be my 'go to'.)

But the argument about riders is strong. I'm fortunate now in that I rarely get a rider and singers who seem surprised when I don't give them a 58 - standard or Beta - are soon won-round when they hear their voice through my alternative. But if you're earning your crust in a world where riders are an everyday occurrence, you'd be crazy to turn work away because you don't have requested gear which is relatively cheap in terms of the overall cost of a system.

When the man is waving the wad of notes at you and says 'jump', the only response if you want to stay in business is, "How high?"

Quote Mike Stranks:

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I agree with much of what has been said about SM58s - I don't own any among my far-too-large selection of vocal mics as, whatever the voice, I've always found that I have something in the box that will do the job better. (That said, they used to be my 'go to'.)

But the argument about riders is strong. I'm fortunate now in that I rarely get a rider and singers who seem surprised when I don't give them a 58 - standard or Beta - are soon won-round when they hear their voice through my alternative.

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Yes I had a similar experience recently. Had a touring artist over from Canada who requested a beta 58 on her voice but I had the Sennheiser E935. During her soundcheck I had 'ooh that sounds nice, what mic is this?'

I do still like the beta 58 on certain male vocals though.

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www.richardpenrose.com

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Some valid points, but, there's still absolutely no evidence that an SM58 can out-perform other microphones in certain situations, it simply isn't the case. Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!"

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I have: An example here. I was engineering this artist who wanted to use his KMS 105 on a noisy stage... A '58 fixed the feedback and stage-clatter problem, quickly. This was the 'go-to' mic for me rather than another (maybe better) one. Different tools for different situations.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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And I've absolutely never had a voice that "suited" an SM58, that then didn't sound better/richer/more detailed with a replacement like the 767, D5, OM5/7 etc.

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I usually try (depending on time and the artist) very good and different vocal mics, and sometimes a '58 has outperformed on a specific voice. No question.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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The SM58 Beta is a different proposition, I do have one, and it does get regular use, but it's a better mic because it's closer to those others mentioned with it's better mid/top-end detail, i.e. less like a standard SM58.

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Shure, the beta is a good tool, generally prefer it to a standard '58. I had a beta until it died, but now I usually prefer other mics: I find beta '58s a tad sibilant, with a less ballsy bass-end than than some others.

By the way, the list I made above was in answer to the question 'why buy a '58?' ... not saying they are better or worse ... it's just that some performers with years of experience will make them 'the best'!

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PA stuff on FB

Quote Mike Stranks:

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When the man is waving the wad of notes at you and says 'jump', the only response if you want to stay in business is, "How high?"

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Customer: "Shure??"
Me: "Yes, perfectly sure, you're better off with an EV767!!"

Ha ha! Anyway, I got the pun in first!

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PA stuff on FB

I have 10 vocal mics. One of them is an SM58. Some people like its aesthetic, some like its sound. I have one if required. I have no problem using one. If it sounds bad , I will use another mic, if it sounds good I will use it. For me no mic is a complete all rounder, but the SM58 comes close! Dave

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My head hurts!

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

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I guess you've not been doing PA as long as I have then. I've used plenty of PA's over the years which simply don't have the high end to work with most of the suggestions here. Yes, they're becoming rarer but they still exist. Name me another mic that works as well through a 2x12 cab with no high frequency drivers.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

I would like to chime in from a musicians point of view. I can vouch for what James is saying. I have witnessed many "choice" mics just not happening at a venue, out comes the SM58 and the problems are sorted. Seen it so often I wonder if PA's are designed for/around SM58's.

One point, NEVER buy one on ebay, the SM57 & SM58 on there are 99% of the time bad fakes, many of which don't even have a transformer in them.

Quote James Perrett:

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Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Never ever have I had a situation where I've had a mic on stage, with issues, and then thought "I know, the SM58 will sort that out!!".

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I guess you've not been doing PA as long as I have then. I've used plenty of PA's over the years which simply don't have the high end to work with most of the suggestions here. Yes, they're becoming rarer but they still exist. Name me another mic that works as well through a 2x12 cab with no high frequency drivers.

James.

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Firstly, we're talking about vocals.
Secondly, I've done well over 1500-1800 gigs, so I'm not coming from the perspective of being wet behind the ears.
Thirdly, I'd use an SM57 on the front and a Sennheiser 609 on the back, I wouldn't be using an SM58.

This argument is simply daft, it doesn't have the best rejection, it's nowhere near the same frequency response as other similarly priced microphones, it lacks mid and top, and at the moment there has only been one example where an SM58 "might" be better than another microphone and that "might" is a purely personal opinion.

I can accept that people like the "safe" sound of an SM58, but that's it, and that's not a good enough reason to recommend a microphone to someone.

Quote fletcher:

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I have witnessed many "choice" mics just not happening at a venue, out comes the SM58 and the problems are sorted.

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Exactly what problems did it sort? It can't be rejection issues, and it certainly can be clarity or detail.

The issue in this thread, thus far, is that the SM58 has been hailed as an all-solving mic, but other than one example from James, no one else has managed to detail what that problem was that the SM58 sorted.

I suspect it's because vocal mics are designed to sound great on vocals while the '58, separate from the design process, have been chosen by generations of sound guys, technically savvy or otherwise, to fit in a live mix constructed by way of all the other current gear, guitar and bass amps, piezo pickups, nasty loud drumkits, etc.

Looks in part like application of 'survival of the best adapted'.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

I've no idea what problems it sorts - I'm just the guy at the back waiting to get sound check over. All I know is I've seen singers not happy, PA guys running around not happy and the SM58 just sorting it all out. Maybe your right, maybe it's not the best mic. However it seems to be the most reliable, night after night of abuse, it just keeps working.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Thirdly, I'd use an SM57 on the front and a Sennheiser 609 on the back, I wouldn't be using an SM58.

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The 2x12 is the PA speaker

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote James Perrett:

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Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Thirdly, I'd use an SM57 on the front and a Sennheiser 609 on the back, I wouldn't be using an SM58.

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The 2x12 is the PA speaker

James.

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I'd say, just about any mic that's had all of the mid/top and presence rolled off...

While the bickering is quite entertaining, can I point out that the OP appears to have left the building right after posting...

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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While the bickering is quite entertaining, can I point out that the OP appears to have left the building right after posting...

H

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Perhaps you surely put some science behind the claims that the SM58 can out-perform other mics in "certain situation": at the moment it's all subjective, non-quantifiable, and I'm genuinely intrigued as to when these situations might occur.

Granted, I can accept that people like to use a known entity, or that it's an industry standard whereby people know it's limitations without having to explore them, but I've yet to see a compelling reason why somebody that wanted to purchase a new mic would go directly for an SM58. Granted, those that perhaps already had one might want to stay safe, but really, someone that was new to mic's would go for the technical inferior SM58???

Edit - if there are genuine situations where the SM58 is the best option, I'd like to know about it, as at the moment I steer people well away from them. I could be missing a trick here.

Edited by TheChorltonWheelie (18/02/13 02:44 PM)

like I said, might not be a technical reason. Might just be they are tough as nails.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Perhaps you surely put some science behind the claims that the SM58 can out-perform other mics in "certain situation": at the moment it's all subjective, non-quantifiable, and I'm genuinely intrigued as to when these situations might occur.

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By 'sciecnce' do you mean the notoriously vague paper specs audio gear has?

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Granted, I can accept that people like to use a known entity, or that it's an industry standard whereby people know it's limitations without having to explore them, but I've yet to see a compelling reason why somebody that wanted to purchase a new mic would go directly for an SM58. Granted, those that perhaps already had one might want to stay safe, but really, someone that was new to mic's would go for the technical inferior SM58???

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See some replies above...

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Edit - if there are genuine situations where the SM58 is the best option, I'd like to know about it,

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again, see above!

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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as at the moment I steer people well away from them. I could be missing a trick here.

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er ... yes!



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PA stuff on FB

I found the AKG D5 sucked and replace them with 58's whenever I can, just my opinion.

All the above goes to illustrate how much personal preference there is regarding vocal (and, other purpose) mics. I like a condenser on my (not particularly good :-) voice and currently use an SE H-1. It sounds great on some voices and poor on others. I've heard SM58's sound awful but also sound very good, depending on the voice, genre and engineer. So if the OP is still listening she should try before buying.

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Turn it down lads (but only a little bit)

For me, in terms of live sound it all comes down to one simple thing, monitors are generally pre eq so they can only be tuned correctly for one type of mic. The cognitive dissonance in using different mics on the same send seems obvious. When you tune the system be it front or monitors to a particular mic any others will not sound as good. Don't even start me on people who think just plugging in different mics with the same tuning setting is a fair comparison, it cannot possibly be.