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Bossman
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Joined: 30/09/02
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Loc: UK
UAD Apollo for Live sound
      #1046058 - 01/05/13 09:06 AM
Hi, I'm considering getting a UAD Apollo audio interface (not just for live sound, I would be using it in the studio too).

One thing that interests me is using it as an FX rack for live sound - Using the UAD plugins. Currently I have a rack with a Yamaha SPX2000, a tc.Electronic M1 and a tc.Electronic D2.

...but I'm thinking I could have better FX for live sound using the UAD plugins with the Apollo interface. I would love to use the UAD Roland Space Echo, Cooper Time Cube, the Plate 140 and the Lexicon for live sound.

Can anyone here see any problems using the Apollo in this way? Is anyone actually doing this already?

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046078 - 01/05/13 10:37 AM
btw, this is for doing live sound mixing from FOH mixing desk using the Apollo as an FX rack, not performing live on stage.

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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benniferj



Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 318
Loc: Camberley, Surrey, UK
Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046082 - 01/05/13 10:44 AM
Well I guess just try it... and if anything goes wrong, mute the return and have an SPX patched ready to go. You should be fine latency wise if it's only a few channels of processor and you're running a machine you can track into with software monitoring in near enough realtime (which you probably realistically do successfully all the time)


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: benniferj]
      #1046085 - 01/05/13 10:56 AM
Quote benniferj:

Well I guess just try it...




I would but I don't actually have an Apollo yet.. I have UAD cards in my desktop computer so I'm sold on the plugins already.. and I would really like to use the plugins in a live sound mixing situation.

I already have an audio interface (not an Apollo), so although I would use the Apollo in the studio if I had one, its not the main reason for me to get it... but being able to use the plugins for live sound is (also having the plugins available on my laptop would be a big plus).

I'm pretty much sold on the idea already, but I just wanted to see if anyone here can foresee any problems using the Apollo as a live sound FX rack.

I'm thinking I could use it as a 4 mono input/4 stereo output FX rack.. or possible upto 8 mono inputs and then sub-mix 8 stereo returns using the Apollo console and output as 1 stereo pair (not that I've ever used or needed 8 FX units live).

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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The Korff
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046094 - 01/05/13 11:24 AM
Can't see why it wouldn't work — If I recall, the Apollo has its own mixer built in that doesn't go through DAW software buffers or anything, but which lets you insert the UAD effects, so you should get very low latency without bothering your CPU much.

Cheers!

Chris


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046097 - 01/05/13 11:38 AM
The Apollo was specifically designed for live applications, like this, and I'm sure if you search you'll find reports from people using it in a similar way to what you're describing.

However, I'm not convinced that the 'improved quality' of the high-end effects emulations will be noticeable in a live sound situation, and it would be putting all your eggs in the one basket -- something that would worry me in a live situation!

Personally, I'd be inclined to stick with your current outboard which are all good quality, reliable, and individual....

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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benniferj



Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 318
Loc: Camberley, Surrey, UK
Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046103 - 01/05/13 12:04 PM
I would definitely agree and say that at this stage this is investing in the UAD system to be mobile as 'just for the hell of it' rather than any great need with what you already have.


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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1478
Loc: Isle of Man
Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: benniferj]
      #1046105 - 01/05/13 12:14 PM
Hey Loz.

I've encountered loads of live engineers using an audio interface and DAW plugs for FX. In particular waves plugins, but others as well, and it's something I've done quite a bit myself. I would imagine it works the same way with the Apollo, no reason it shouldn't, and latency won't be an issue, as that's just a bit of pre-delay.

It's a great way of keeping your live sound consistent if you're using a load of different desks.

--------------------
www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1046108 - 01/05/13 12:38 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

...I'm sure if you search you'll find reports from people using it in a similar way to what you're describing.




yeah, I did do a search on google.. but didn't find anyone actually using it for an FX rack.. I found people using it on stage as part of a live performance.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

However, I'm not convinced that the 'improved quality' of the high-end effects emulations will be noticeable in a live sound situation, and it would be putting all your eggs in the one basket -- something that would worry me in a live situation!

Personally, I'd be inclined to stick with your current outboard which are all good quality, reliable, and individual....

H




I'm not disappointed by the quality of the outboard that I have already - they all sound really good and are nice to use for live sound..

I'm not looking for improved quality.. but specifically I would like to be able to use the Roland Space Echo (UAD emulation) for live sound.. The tc D2 doesn't do tape echo, and it distorts horribly when you overload the input/output so you can't do dub delays with feedback (or if you try you have to be really careful that it doesn't overload), which is the main reason I would like to use the Space Echo emulation.

It would be nice to use the UAD reverbs like the Plate 140, but not essential as I'm more than happy with the reverbs in the SPX (but I only have one SPX).

The other thing that interests me about the Apollo for live sound is the flexibility it would allow - chaining FX, flexible routing, total recall for all FX in one place.

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: benniferj]
      #1046110 - 01/05/13 12:41 PM
Quote benniferj:

I would definitely agree and say that at this stage this is investing in the UAD system to be mobile as 'just for the hell of it' rather than any great need with what you already have.




definitely, I would agree.. there is no great need, but it would be nice.

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Dave Rowles]
      #1046113 - 01/05/13 12:59 PM
Quote Dave Rowles:

Hey Loz.

I've encountered loads of live engineers using an audio interface and DAW plugs for FX. In particular waves plugins, but others as well, and it's something I've done quite a bit myself. I would imagine it works the same way with the Apollo, no reason it shouldn't, and latency won't be an issue, as that's just a bit of pre-delay.

It's a great way of keeping your live sound consistent if you're using a load of different desks.




Hi Dave, hows things?

One thing that is puzzling me at the moment is how I would go about setting the tempo.. as there is no tap tempo button on the Apollo. I might be able to hook up some kind of controller with knobs/buttons (or just use the laptop) and use a button for tap tempo to control the tempo of Pro Tools/Logic/Mainstage or whatever host I decided to use. I rely on the Tap tempo button on the D2 and would be lost without it.

Any ideas on this? How have you set the tempo when using your laptop for live FX?

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Mixedup
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046114 - 01/05/13 01:12 PM
Quote Bossman:

specifically I would like to be able to use the Roland Space Echo (UAD emulation) for live sound.




Can't see any reason other than the eggs-in-one-basket one that the Apollo wouldn't be perfectly serviceable in the role you intend, but if all you need is a space echo, there are plenty of pedals that will do the job and can be integrated into your FOH rig. Roland do their own emulation in a twin-pedal format, for example. The Eventide TimeFactor is another great option. I'd find the pedal convenient as you have instant tap-tempo there without having to fiddle with computers!


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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1478
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046139 - 01/05/13 04:01 PM
Quote Bossman:

Hi Dave, hows things?



Can't complain.

Quote:


One thing that is puzzling me at the moment is how I would go about setting the tempo.. as there is no tap tempo button on the Apollo. I might be able to hook up some kind of controller with knobs/buttons (or just use the laptop) and use a button for tap tempo to control the tempo of Pro Tools/Logic/Mainstage or whatever host I decided to use. I rely on the Tap tempo button on the D2 and would be lost without it.

Any ideas on this? How have you set the tempo when using your laptop for live FX?




I generally don't, and those who do use it seemed to use a tap on a nearby fx unit and changed the delay time manually. Most of the people I've seen do this are with bands who rely heavily on playback, so they know the tempos for each of the songs before.

It's not something I've looked into before, so thought I'd have a play.

Just tried Tap Tempo control in logic, and with some messing with the setup I've got it to work quite well. Just using delay designer it changed the tempo to whatever I set it to using a tap on the keyboard. It's a little fiddly to setup, but works well once you're done. I imagine other DAWs will have a similar function.

--------------------
www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Mixedup]
      #1046242 - 02/05/13 10:48 AM
Quote Mixedup:

..but if all you need is a space echo, there are plenty of pedals that will do the job and can be integrated into your FOH rig. Roland do their own emulation in a twin-pedal format, for example. The Eventide TimeFactor is another great option. I'd find the pedal convenient as you have instant tap-tempo there without having to fiddle with computers!




yeah, you might be right... I've used one of those Roland/Boss RE20 Space Echo pedals... it was nice, but I would prefer something that can be rack mounted rather than stompbox format

I agree about the convenience of a dedicated tap tempo button/pedal.

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Bossman
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Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Dave Rowles]
      #1046243 - 02/05/13 10:57 AM
Quote Dave Rowles:

I generally don't, and those who do use it seemed to use a tap on a nearby fx unit and changed the delay time manually. Most of the people I've seen do this are with bands who rely heavily on playback, so they know the tempos for each of the songs before.

It's not something I've looked into before, so thought I'd have a play.

Just tried Tap Tempo control in logic, and with some messing with the setup I've got it to work quite well. Just using delay designer it changed the tempo to whatever I set it to using a tap on the keyboard. It's a little fiddly to setup, but works well once you're done. I imagine other DAWs will have a similar function.




The more I think about it, I might just stick with the hardware outboard FX.. I don't want to be messing with a laptop while I should be mixing... hitting the dedicated tap button is a much better idea/less to go wrong.

It was a interesting idea, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to go down that route.... thanks everyone for reasoning with me and pointing out the pros/cons of such a setup. I may take the plunge one day - If I decide to buy myself an Apollo I'll try it out, but I won't be buying an Apollo just for live use.



--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4488
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: UAD Apollo for Live sound new [Re: Bossman]
      #1046246 - 02/05/13 11:22 AM
Plugins are be a good addition to racked effects. I use Altiverb for some plates and smooth springs ... & really boingy springs too are great on some things.

--------------------
Oh. It's Christmas.


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