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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
DB levels at indoor events
      #1060724 - 05/08/13 10:53 AM
We had a job last weekend at a large venue that, in the past has held outdoor festival events for 35000+. Our event was at the same venue, only it was inside a large, brick built barn structure, holding approximately 500 souls. We had been hired by the client, but when we kicked off with the first band, the venue owners were standing at the mix position at the back of the room, with a noise meter, trying to achieve 90db. It was registering 108-110db and the management were screaming for us to get it down to 90db. First song ends and the meter falls to 90-92db in the room with just the usual gentle applause for a support act, and to my astonishment, the owner says "there you go, keep it like that". When I pointed out that 90db was when the band were not actually playing, it did not seem to register with this numpty, and she was just focused on the meter, and keeping the level below the limit. We simply pulled everything out of the mix, and just left the vocals in, and the bands back-line was still registering 103-105db, which she said was still far to loud, and in explaining that there was nothing more we could do, she hurried off in search of the client. Now because this venue has had run-ins with the local council over noise pollution from the previous events, would it be that the 90db limit would be at the perimeter of the venue, and not actually in the room, as I find that level to be totally unrealistic in a live environment. I asked the venue management if the level was for the site, and she was adamant that it was for the room. Does this sound right to anybody? I have phoned the local council today regarding the license, and am waiting on a response, but if that is the case, we have already been asked by the client to come back next year, and I think we will give it a miss. The client was more than happy with the actual sound, but I'm sure these people must be deaf, because it would of sounded 10 times better than it actually did, if we were allowed to do our job. The second night, we did not even bother micing anything up, and just gave the drummer some kick in his fill, and vocals in monitors, but overall, it felt like we hadn't been able to do our job.


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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1464
Loc: Isle of Man
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060737 - 05/08/13 02:32 PM
I sounds like someone has been told the wrong thing. 90dB in the room is quite quiet for rock, though if it's MOR or lighter you might be able to get the levels down there.

I imagine they've measured the levels wrongly when the council guy has been over, and that's the problem.

--------------------
www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060739 - 05/08/13 02:57 PM
It's a case of the blind leading the deaf, and no one really having the faintest idea what they're actually talking about!

You can't bandy about decibel numbers unless you can specify precisely to what they relate. Well... you can, but it would be utterly meaningless gibberish.

I imagine the OP is probably talking about instantaneous peak SPL figures, whereas the council would probably be more likely to have specified long-term averaged LAeq figures... A limit of 90dB peak SPL in the room is clearly barking mad. 90dB LAEQ in the room is quite realistic (although it would require all employees -- including the PA techs) to be wearing hearing protection). Alternatively, as suggested, requiring a limit of 90dB peak SPL at the outside boundary of the building is possible, too.

Best to have a conversation with the council to establish precisely what the requirement is, and then with the 'measuring person' on site to see what tools they are using, whether they are using them correctly, and whether they are aware of and understand what the council limits really are.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060743 - 05/08/13 03:24 PM
She was reading the live reading on the screen, she did not know what weighting it was, but was insistent that the reading was in the room. I would imagine the drums alone would of been putting out over 100db alone and to get it below 90db the drummer would of had to use a pair of breadsticks


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060757 - 05/08/13 04:50 PM
The council replied, and TBH it's a lot of info that I don't understand. If I type it up on here, would any of you clever Fellas be able to decipher it and explain it in lay mans terms?


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5869
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060759 - 05/08/13 05:06 PM
We'll never know until...


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060763 - 05/08/13 05:21 PM
General Conditions Relating To Noise Applicable To All Events

34. Up To 23.00hrs, Music Noise Levels (Laeq, 15min) Shall Not Exceed 15db(A) above agreed background noise levels (La90, 15min) in any 15 minute Period At Designated Monitoring Points Agreed With The Environmental Health Department. The Premises Licence Holder Shall Review The Background Noise Levels On A Minimum 3 Yearly Basis.

35. Up To 19.00hrs Music Noise Levels In The 63Hz And 125Hz Octave Bands Shall Not Exceed Leq, 15 min 70Db in any 15 minute period At Designated Monitoring Points Agreed With The Environmental Health Department.

36. Between 19.00 And 23.00hrs Music Noise Levels In The 63Hz And 125Hz Octave Bands Shall Not Exceed Leq, 15min 65Db in any 15 minute period At Designated Monitoring Points Agreed With The Environmental Health Department.

37. Between 23.00 And 10.00hrs, The LAeq (15 min) Measured At Any Of The Agreed Monitoring Locations Shall Not Exceed The Stated LAeq (15 min) For Each Respective Location By More Than 3Db(A).

38. Sound Level Monitoring Equipment To Monitor Compliance With These Conditions Must Be To A IEC Type 1 Standard Capable Of Providing A Read Out In DB(A) In 60 Seconds To 15 Minute Db(A) Leq Values. Measurements To Be Taken In Compliance With BS 7445-1;2003- Description And Measurement Of Environmental Noise.

39. Where Requested Noise Measurement Data Shall Be Submitted To The Environmental Health Department Within 28 Days Of The End Of Each Music Event. This Shall Include Permanent And Roving Data. This Should Be Provided As 15 Minute Periods As Per The Requirements Of Conditions 34-37 Above.

40. The Premises Licence Holder Will Have Ultimate Responsibility Via Their Noise Consultants For Meeting These Licence Conditions And Will Override The Event Organiser/Provider In The Event Of Any Of These Conditions Being Breached.


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060764 - 05/08/13 05:21 PM
All Typed With One Finger......lol


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060767 - 05/08/13 05:37 PM
Quote Boffa:

She was reading the live reading on the screen, she did not know what weighting it was, but was insistent that the reading was in the room.




yes... but peak SPL, (short-term) averaged SPL, Long-term LAeq? What?

Quote:

I would imagine the drums alone would of been putting out over 100db alone and to get it below 90db the drummer would of had to use a pair of breadsticks




There you go again! 100db doesn't mean anything to anyone. 100dB SPL might mean something to someone. 90dB LAeq might mean something else to someone else...

Correct terminology makes all the difference between passing useful information and wasting the effort of expelling air though the larynx (or typing with one finger!)

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060769 - 05/08/13 05:42 PM
Quote Boffa:

Music Noise Levels (Laeq, 15min)




LAeq is an A-weighted long-term (15 minutes in this case) averaged noise measurement which is typically used for assessing perceived noise nuisance and hazard:

http://www.noisenet.org/Noise_Terms_Leq.htm

Cheap SPL meters don't measure LAeq -- only the more expensive ones do. The most cost-effective meter I'm aware of that is capable of accurate LAeq measurements is the NTI Acoustilyser.

Quote:

38. Sound Level Monitoring Equipment To Monitor Compliance With These Conditions Must Be To A IEC Type 1 Standard....




Shame they don't also specify that the person using the meter should know what they are doing with it!

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060770 - 05/08/13 05:48 PM
Quote Boffa:

The council replied, and TBH it's a lot of info that I don't understand.




Don't want to appear rude Boffa but, as an absolute minimum, the person responsible for running your business is legally obliged to understand this stuff, and whoever is responsible for controlling levels at the gig is legally responsible for ensuring that the noise exposure of the crew and any other employed staff at the venue is within the legal prescribed limits and/or adequate hearing protection is being used.

If you don't know what the requirements are, what the terms mean, or how to measure it, you aren't working within the requirements of the law, and sooner or later you're going to get bitten very painfully.

You really should get across this stuff urgently. The days of turning up with a transit van full of speakers, wearing tight black T-shirts with 'Sound Crew' across the back, and walking away at the end of the night with a fist-full of readies are long gone. The potential penalties for not controlling the noise exposure of you and any other employees are massive.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Chump
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Joined: 24/09/02
Posts: 35
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060774 - 05/08/13 06:04 PM
In any case, none of those conditions mention the 90 dB internal level that the manager was worried about. They appear instead to relate to external positions, and are aimed at preventing noise nuisance for locals.

For these conditions to have been placed on the venue, it is probable that they have had some noise nuisance issues in the past with the locals. For any venue, they sound like a pretty expensive set of conditions to comply with, requiring multiple Class 1 (not cheap) meters continuously monitoring at multiple outdoor positions - generally this would be a service provided by acoustic consultants (who also don't come cheap!)

The venue have probably received some advice that by keeping the internal levels limited to '90 dB' they will comply with the conditions (without actually needing to employ consultants to go and measure them at the outdoor positions), and therefore avoid risking their events licence.

Problem is that there is a balance to be struck between running a viable music venue, and risking their licence, and 90 dB(A) is not loud enough for most types of event. Also, there appears to be little understanding of what this '90 dB' relates to - my guess would be that it is a 15-minute 'A' weighted Leq.

If you have more events at the venue, I suggest bringing along someone with a Class 1 sound level meter who fully understands noise metrics (or educating yourself!), finding out where the 'agreed monitoring positions' are, and undertaking some of your own measurements. Then hopefully you can demonstrate to the venue how loud you can go internally before breaching the limits in their licence conditions. With any luck it will be much louder than 90 dB(A)!


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Chump
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Joined: 24/09/02
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060777 - 05/08/13 06:13 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote Boffa:

The council replied, and TBH it's a lot of info that I don't understand.




Don't want to appear rude Boffa but, as an absolute minimum, the person responsible for running your business is legally obliged to understand this stuff, and whoever is responsible for controlling levels at the gig is legally responsible for ensuring that the noise exposure of the crew and any other employed staff at the venue is within the legal prescribed limits and/or adequate hearing protection is being used.
H




Although Hugh is right that getting clued up about this kind of thing is a good idea, by operating a sound system you are in no way responsible for the noise exposure to anyone other than yourself and your crew. Responsibility for limiting the noise exposure for staff employed at the venue rests solely with their employers - the law is quite clear on this. All you need to comply with is any stuff on noise detailed in your contract with the venue or promoter.


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060782 - 05/08/13 07:03 PM
Hugh, I would consider myself to be in The Weekend Warrior category of sound engineers and we don't generally come across such stringent noise limits. One of the musicians in one of the Bands on Saturday was also an Acoustician, and he said that even in a residential pub, the standard trip point for a limiter is 105db SPL. One of the techs for the venue said that the agreed monitoring points were some 800mtrs away from building, but that does not explain the management team on insisting on 90db SPL inside. The fact that this venue has held massive outdoor festivals attracting numerous complaints from local residents, goes someway to explaining the licence restrictions that are in place. The venue is under new management, with the new licence only being granted in May of this year, and with no big outside events since then, this would of been possibly their first indoor event, and I suspect an inexperienced team leader calling the shots. So my question should read, if the agreed monitoring stations are a fair distance from the structure, what does the licence actually say the level should be. I understand it is a 15 minute average, but what are the numbers?


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Chump]
      #1060785 - 05/08/13 07:21 PM
Quote Chump:

Responsibility for limiting the noise exposure for staff employed at the venue rests solely with their employers - the law is quite clear on this. All you need to comply with is any stuff on noise detailed in your contract with the venue or promoter.




Yes... I was typing fast and loose there in a hurry to head off for my dinner As you say, technically, the 'sound gaffer' is responsible only for the noise exposure of their own employees. However, when contracted to supply equipment to an occasional venue, the venue owner will often presume or stipulate the sound gaffer's compliance in avoiding excessive noise exposure for other venue staff.

Which ever way you look at it, though, this is stuff that even 'weekend warriors' need to know about.

H

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060788 - 05/08/13 07:29 PM
Quote Boffa:

I understand it is a 15 minute average, but what are the numbers?




You need to find out what the agreed background noise level is. It could well be the 90dB LAeq figure. The quoted specs above appear to say you can go up to --but not over -- 15dB LAeq over that (ie 105dB LAeq) up until 11pm, and measured over 15 min periods. There is also the additional proviso that the LF the two octave bands detailed must be much more tightly controlled (as detailed in the other quoted texts) not to exceed 65dB LAeq. But these figures are all as measured at the designated measurement points... Wherever they may be.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3304
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060791 - 05/08/13 07:40 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:


Which ever way you look at it, though, this is stuff that even 'weekend warriors' need to know about.

H




Now there's a cracking idea for an article in an appropriate periodical.

--------------------
Onward and outward


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060794 - 05/08/13 07:45 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote Boffa:

I understand it is a 15 minute average, but what are the numbers?




You need to find out what the agreed background noise level is. It could well be the 90dB LAeq figure. The quoted specs above appear to say you can go up to --but not over -- 15dB LAeq over that (ie 105dB LAeq) up until 11pm, and measured over 15 min periods. There is also the additional proviso that the LF the two octave bands detailed must be much more tightly controlled (as detailed in the other quoted texts) not to exceed 65dB LAeq. But these figures are all as measured at the designated measurement points... Wherever they may be.

H




Hugh, these numbers are no-where to be found within the licence, so where would they be found. Would it be the Environmental Agency? I'm still convinced that the type of event we were involved with does not fall within the scope of the licence, and that the new management team are just going over the top.


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Zan Man



Joined: 21/12/08
Posts: 45
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060795 - 05/08/13 07:56 PM
I'm wondering if the team leader with the meter has been refered to, and working to this, which is for occupational purposes. A standard 8 hour shift has a Leq of 90 db(A)as a maximum limit with parameters as described below. In all probability, the meter was showing an instantanious hit. As the OP stated, the general noise of 500 people in an enclosed space would be more than 90db on the meter being used, no doubt set onto instant "hit" on the gauge. As someone once said to me, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and the team leader with the meter is a little vague on the interprutation of the reading.



A variety of methods and scales are used for measuring and putting numbers on noise – it depends upon the situation. The measurement of the noise usually includes information about –

· Sound level (energy) of the noise, given in units of decibels dB

· The frequencies (low to high) present in the noise, given in units of Hertz (cycles per second)

· The duration of the noise, measured over of hours or days

A set of measurement is usually ‘processed’ and combined to give a convenient single number or ‘index’. But you should remember that this is for convenience and the contents of a single number can be complex.

All assessment of noise needs to be compared to human opinion about the annoyance or acceptability of different levels of a particular noise. Despite the technicalities of noise measurement, the purpose of it all is to ensure our own comfort and protection!

Hearing Risk

Because the risk of damage to hearing is largely dependent on the total energy reaching the ear in a given period, LA,eq is the basis of safe exposure to noise.

Recommended levels are usually in the range LAeq,8hr = 80 to 90 dB, as described below.

More sound energy = more hearing damage

The ‘little’ subscript characters written at the foot of the noise level symbol L are an agreed system of noting the ‘ingredients’ of a particular noise index, such as A for decibel A-scale, eq for equivalent index, 8hr or d for time.

Occupational noise index LEP,d

The LEP,d index is a measure of daily personal noise exposure. It measures the cumulative noise energy received by a person during a standard eight-hour working day. For working days and weeks with different pattern of hours, the index can be made equivalent to an eight-hour day by using published formulas. In UK legislation, which is typical of that required for Europe, the duties of employers and employees are linked to the values of LEP,d described below:

· Lower exposure action level: LEP,d = 80 dB(A-weighted), and a peak sound pressure of 135 dB(C-weighted).

· Upper exposure action level: LEP,d = 85 dB(A-weighted), and a peak sound pressure of 137 dB(C-weighted).

· Exposure limit value: LEP,d = 87 dB(A-weighted), and a peak sound pressure of 140 dB(C-weighted).


A sound level increase of just 3 dB may not be noticed but:

the sound energy received doubles
and
the hearing damage doubles

When the exposure exceeds the action levels, the regulations prescribe actions to be taken involving various degrees of staff information, assessments of noise, assessment of health and the use of hearing protectors. Personal noise exposure must never exceed 87 dB(A) after taking into account the effect of hearing protection.

Noise dose

The noise dose index makes 100 per cent dose equal to a fixed noise exposure such as 85 or 90 db(A) for eight hours. Individual noise exposure can be assessed by wearing a personal dosemeter.

Peak

The peak is the highest pressure produced by an explosive sound, such as that from a cartridge tool or a gunshot. Although this peak only lasts for a brief instant, its pressure is high and damaging to hearing. The peak value is measured by a sound level meter which can hold and display the information.

A peak of 200 Pa (equivalent to 140 dB) is used as an industrial limit. At this level of sound, an eight-hour Leq exposure of 90 db(A) is reached in about a fifth of a second.

--------------------
It's my most vivid memory - and you're telling me it never happened?


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Zan Man



Joined: 21/12/08
Posts: 45
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060796 - 05/08/13 08:00 PM
P.S. Hugh....... Schroedinger's Khat. You will have to open the box to find out.

--------------------
It's my most vivid memory - and you're telling me it never happened?


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3304
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060824 - 06/08/13 07:42 AM
Quote Zan Man:

P.S. Hugh....... Schroedinger's Khat. You will have to open the box to find out.




Hey, Z. That's my chord sequence you're soloing over. H has something to announce in his sig so doesn't need to resort to throwaway humour like the rest of us.

By the Lord, the day I achieve something significant there'll be no more of these witty bon mots under my inane drivel.

--------------------
Onward and outward


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060839 - 06/08/13 09:38 AM
Quote Boffa:

Hugh, these numbers are no-where to be found within the licence...




The 15dB limit above background LAeq noise and 65dB LAeq for the bass are in the text you quoted earlier. The background noise level doesn't seem to be stated explicitly, but I wonder if the reference to '(La90, 15 mins)' actually means a background noise level of 90dB LAeq over 15 minutes measurement periods. You could contact the council or whoever it was that issues the licence regulations and confirm.

Quote:

...that the new management team are just going over the top.




Quite possibly. Certainly the idea that the limit should be '90dB SPL inside the venue' is bonkers -- a busy pub full of revellers drinking and discussing the latest episode of Top Gear will reach that no trouble at all.

It is not be unusual for the venue management to not understand the technical detail that they've agreed to abide by -- most people are confused about the difference between dB SPL (which is what a cheap sound meter will tell you) and dB LAeq (which requires a very expensive meter), but 90dB LAEQ is very much louder than 90dB SPL.

Unfortunately, you're not in a much more knowledgable position yourself at the moment to argue it either way, but I'm sure with some research and talking with the appropriate regulators you could get across this and help the venue management understand and conform with the actual requirements.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #1060840 - 06/08/13 09:45 AM
Quote shufflebeat:

Now there's a cracking idea for an article in an appropriate periodical.




You could try THIS for starters, published in our defunct sister-mag, Performing Musician a few years ago.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3304
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060843 - 06/08/13 09:59 AM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote shufflebeat:

Now there's a cracking idea for an article in an appropriate periodical.




You could try THIS for starters, published in our defunct sister-mag, Performing Musician a few years ago.

H




That's a keeper. Cheers, H.

--------------------
Onward and outward


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Sam Spoons
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060892 - 06/08/13 02:41 PM
I have a regular gig at a venue who's license conditions require a "sound engineer' to be present for the duration of all events where amplified music will be played (band or DJ). The venue is a large marquee about 400 metres from the closest residential properties in a predominantly rural setting. The licence states that amplified music must not be "audible such as to cause a noise nuisance in sensitive properties". The relevant environmental health officer interprets this to mean if music is audible outside the residential properties it is too loud and must be turned down. This really is a no win situation for the venue (though, long before I became involved, they apparently generated a lot of ill will by flouting the rules and refusing to respond to well founded complaints), levels on the dance floor are typically around 90dBA (peak) and on many occasions guests complain that the music is not loud enough.

I take and record ambient noise measurements to demonstrate that I am doing the job of monitoring the potential noise nuisance but they are useless as a means of policing the situation, the music becomes audible (in this context the EHO deems that to mean "identifiable as music") at a level significantly below the ambient noise thus does not affect the dB reading. The only way to monitor is by subjective judgement. It's not my most favourite job but it generates a small but regular income


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060900 - 06/08/13 03:44 PM
It's sort of good that some communities accept that residents find amplified music at ANY audible level an annoyance. Live and let live, you're welcome to an occasional loud party, but if a disco moves in next door I don't want it quieter or its hours limited - I want it OFF!


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James PerrettModerator



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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1060904 - 06/08/13 04:03 PM
I must admit that I can be a grumpy git about noise nuisance sometimes. I feel that if I've taken all the trouble that I have to make sure that my music doesn't upset the neighbours then everyone else should too.

If the last couple of years are anything to go by, I have a feeling that we're going to be subject to what sounds like a seismic survey this coming weekend - a regular pulse of LF energy from a festival a few miles away that goes on until well after midnight. I really don't understand how the organisers expect to get away with this level of noise nuisance.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Mike Stranks
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Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1060955 - 07/08/13 07:54 AM
One Friday night early in the summer relatives and their neighbours were greatly disturbed by loud rock music. The following day enquiries were made in the area, but no-one knew anything. Then the same thing happened on the Saturday night...

Then the penny dropped... they're in Stubbington towards the mouth of the Solent... The Isle of Wight Festival was taking place that weekend...


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Boffa



Joined: 27/03/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Essex
Re: DB levels at indoor events new [Re: Boffa]
      #1061052 - 07/08/13 07:21 PM
I spoke with The Environmental Health Officer today regarding the licence and I wasn't surprised by the outcome. The indoor building where we were doing the gig, is NOT subject to any specific noise restrictions, and is covered by a completely different licence altogether from the event licence. The new management team clearly have not read the licence, and in any event, the 90Db SPL "In The Room" does not exist at all. A phone call tomorrow methinks, and hopefully, a better gig next year


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