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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Loc: Cornwall, UK
Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx?
      #1072873 - 02/11/13 09:50 AM
Hi,

Has anyone had any experience with these speakers?

I'm particularly interested to hear and user experiences of the Yamaha DSR112's or FBT PRomaxx 14a's vs the Yamaha DXR15's?

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RitchieM



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1072876 - 02/11/13 10:14 AM
I would throw RCF ART715a's into your considerations too. They blew the Yammys away when we bought ours (and I was set on the DXRs too!).

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Engineering Surveyor and Musician Pretty Vegas Northwest Function and Wedding Band
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One Horse Town



Joined: 04/04/09
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: RitchieM]
      #1072922 - 02/11/13 08:46 PM
The DSR 112 (ideally partnered with a DSR118 sub) trounce the competition.......but you pay for the privilege. They're not light either.


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Sam Spoons
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1072926 - 02/11/13 09:10 PM
I did a comparison earlier this year (which you may have read Richard) and my conclusion was the DSR was the best of the bunch with the DXR surprisingly close, until I listened to the QSC K12. I didn't like the ART712, I found them to be a bit 'soft' compared to both the Yamaha's. In the end I bought the K12s in preference to both, they were my favourite and I got a good deal on a pair of ex-demo ones (I did buy 2 DXR10s for monitors though).


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Mike Stranks
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1072940 - 02/11/13 11:24 PM
Bags me first refusal on the DXRs....


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: Sam Spoons]
      #1072946 - 03/11/13 02:14 AM
Quote One Horse Town:

The DSR 112 (ideally partnered with a DSR118 sub) trounce the competition.......but you pay for the privilege. They're not light either.




They're lighter than my DXR15's which is a good thing!

Quote Sam Spoons:

I did a comparison earlier this year (which you may have read Richard) and my conclusion was the DSR was the best of the bunch with the DXR surprisingly close, until I listened to the QSC K12. I didn't like the ART712, I found them to be a bit 'soft' compared to both the Yamaha's. In the end I bought the K12s in preference to both, they were my favourite and I got a good deal on a pair of ex-demo ones (I did buy 2 DXR10s for monitors though).




Which DXR model did you compare to the DSR112?

I also didn't like the RCF's. I heard the RCF 715's and wasn't particularly impressed.

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Sam Spoons
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073049 - 03/11/13 08:50 PM
They were all 12"ers DSR12, DXR12 and 8 others. Later on I tried a QSC K12 alongside the two Yamaha cabs (I auditioned some 10"s later for monitor cabs). If you're going to have a sub, the 12" speakers sound better than 15"s to my ears.

If I'd had to pay full price for the K12's I may have gone for the DXR12s. On the day I preferred the K12 to both the Yamahas but they are very different sounding speakers (and all very good indeed) so others may disagree with my choice.


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073056 - 03/11/13 09:15 PM
Thanks Sam.

I've heard a few people say that they prefer the Yamaha DXR15's to both the DXR12's and DSR112's!?
Obviously this is personal taste.

I'm particularly interested to hear about any user experiences with the DSR112's or FBT Promaxx 14a's and the DXR15's.

--------------------
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Sam Spoons
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073072 - 03/11/13 10:49 PM
No worries Richard, I didn't compare the DXR15s, I wasn't in the market for a 15" box as I have a sub in my rig (don't you have a pair though, what's you take on them? or was it the Truesonics you bought?). My experience says that 15"s don't work as well as 12"s over a sub (I used Concert Systems 15"s on my passive rig for many years), you don't need the extra bass and the mid range (particularly with vocals) is usually sweeter/more detailed with the smaller bass driver. The Yamaha DXR10s and 12s are exceptionally good though so I'd expect the 15"s to be good too. At work we use JBL PXRs and the 615s are nowhere as nice as the 5/612s, the 15"s are good for a bit of wallop as monitors but I'd much rather run a pair of 5/612s and a sub than a pair of 615s for FOH.

Edited by Sam Spoons (03/11/13 10:50 PM)


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073096 - 04/11/13 03:25 AM
Hi Sam. Yes I have a pair of EV ELX118p subs which I find perform exceptionally well in their class. Mine cost £1000 for the pair and I haven't come across anything under £2000 (pair) that would be an improvement.

I use Alto Truesonic TS112a for a monitor and find it to be excellent. On some gigs the drummer in the band is exceptionally loud and the TS112a really cuts through nice and clear.

I've been using 15" tops for the past few years as there are occasions when I don't need subs but would still like decent bottom end. I have found the DXR15's to be the clearest 15" speakers I've used so far. They are much clearer than the JBL EON515XT, Turbosound Milan M15 and JBL EON 15G2's. They are also clearer than the Mackie SRM450's.

When using the DXR15's with subs I use the onboard HPF on 100Hz. This cuts out a good amount of bass going through them.

I have been tempted to try 12" tops with my subs which is one of the reasons why I'm interested in the DSR112's. I've also heard good things about the FBT Promaxx 14a's and their weight really appeals at 16.5kg.

One thing that I've just noticed about the DSR112 is there appears to be only one handle on top of the speaker!? As it's almost the same weight and the DXR15 I can imagine they are not that comfortable for mounting on stands? I'm very grateful for the handles on the sides of the DXR's when mounting on stands!

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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073249 - 05/11/13 09:36 AM
Can anyone comment on how they find stand mounting the DSR112's without handles on the sides?

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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073257 - 05/11/13 10:09 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Can anyone comment on how they find stand mounting the DSR112's without handles on the sides?




http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/yamaha-dsr112-590687.jpg< br />
So far that has been absolutely no subjective information in this thread, the only person that can decide if they sound right is you, no one else.


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073260 - 05/11/13 10:19 AM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Quote dickiefunk:

Can anyone comment on how they find stand mounting the DSR112's without handles on the sides?




http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/yamaha-dsr112-5...

So far that has been absolutely no subjective information in this thread, the only person that can decide if they sound right is you, no one else.




For some reason there are some pictures on the net of the DSR112's with handles on the sides but this is misleading. I've been told by various dealers that the DSR112 doesn't have handles on the sides but one handle on the top.
The DSR115 has handles on the sides.

I agree that I should really listen to them myself but at the moment this is not possible. I've been trying to find out if anyone in Cornwall owns these but haven't had any success yet
The nearest store to me that stocks both the DSR112 and Promaxx 14a's is a few hundred miles away.

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OneEng



Joined: 28/04/13
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073344 - 05/11/13 10:57 PM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Quote dickiefunk:

Can anyone comment on how they find stand mounting the DSR112's without handles on the sides?




http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/yamaha-dsr112-5...

So far that has been absolutely no subjective information in this thread, the only person that can decide if they sound right is you, no one else.




I own and gig with DSR112's over PRX618S-XLF's. I also use the DSR's stand alone for solo and duo gigs.

I have auditioned the DXR15, but haven't used it in anger.

Of all the 12's I auditioned PRX, KW, K, the DSR112 had better LF punch than any of the others and had more output to my ear. It has a little bit more on the HF than I care for, but this is easily removed.

I have a pair of 3-way passive 15" Klipsch KP301's I use for basement parties as well.

The bottom line is that there aren't any 12" speakers I have ever heard (including really expensive stuff like Meyer) that can put out the bottom that the 15" mentioned here do. I have A/B'ed this at home. It is night and day.

If you intend to use the DSR's without subs, they are not going to sound as good for DJ music, or anything requiring bass response like mic'ing the bass or kick as the DXR15's.

Now, if you are using them over subs, then suddenly the picture changes. If you are finding that your DXR15's run out of gas before your subs and you want more output on top, then the DSR112 may well outrun the DXR15's in this configuration.

As for the handles, yes, it is true that there is only a single handle on the top. I personally like carrying them like this since they don't stick out as much (I carry both at the same time).

To put them up on poles, I lift the speaker up to my shoulder level and put my other hand under the speaker cupping a corner. Then I lift the speaker up until the speaker is angled and sitting on top of the pole with the cup under the speaker hole. Then I lift it the rest of the way up onto the pole.

These speakers aren't feather light. It takes a little upper body strength to do this easily. I am also 6ft tall, so this may be a serious problem for someone shorter or with less arm and upper body strength.

The real issue would be stand alone usage IMHO. The DSR is a beast of a powered 12" speaker, but it simply isn't going to create the LF extension you will get with the 15" DXR's.


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073380 - 06/11/13 10:35 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

I agree that I should really listen to them myself but at the moment this is not possible.




The problem you have is that without subjective information, which is notoriously to define when it relates to how much you might like a sound, it's just going to be a case of who can convince you based on what they like. No one is going to post "I bought XYZ, but I made the wrong decision", much in the same way as they won't post "I bought XYV, but ABC in the other post are in fact much better".

Slightly off topic, but there was an odd post about why 12's ALWAYS sound better than 15's when it comes to vocals/top, and it's utter nonsense not least because you cannot define "better". I don't like most 12's, they have too much top end and they can give real listener fatigue at higher volumes. I use 15's because of the more rounded sound, and the fact that the mids are considerably more detailed. These are my opinions, and that's why I have 15's and not 12's, but that's all they are, my opinions, there is no science to prove or disprove either way.

I'd rather shout than use SRM450 Mk2's, I think they're very poor for the money, but other people swear by them. Only the listener can truly make the decision.

Finally, until you learn to trust your own ears you'll spend your entire life posting "A vs B" whenever you want to buy something new, and because you haven't trusted your own ears you'll never be happy with whatever you purchase.


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Sam Spoons
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073421 - 06/11/13 04:15 PM
Sorry Chorlton, maybe I was not specific enough, my bad, but I didn't actually say "12"s always sound better than 15"s" I should have made it clearer that my recent experience is of Concert Systems passives (with Crown amps, which actually were pretty good but nowhere near as good as my QSC K12s) and JBL PRX615s (which I don't like at all for anything with vocals).

BTW, I agree wholeheartedly re SRM450mk2, they were blown out of the water by everything I tried in June, even the Alto Truesonic TS112A at half the price.

Edited by Sam Spoons (06/11/13 04:20 PM)


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AlecSp



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073425 - 06/11/13 04:31 PM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Finally, until you learn to trust your own ears you'll spend your entire life posting "A vs B" whenever you want to buy something new, and because you haven't trusted your own ears you'll never be happy with whatever you purchase.




+100 !


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073446 - 06/11/13 07:07 PM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:



Finally, until you learn to trust your own ears you'll spend your entire life posting "A vs B" whenever you want to buy something new, and because you haven't trusted your own ears you'll never be happy with whatever you purchase.




I totally trust my own ears and where possible I would insist on hearing before buying. As I mentioned, the nearest place where I can audition both of these is a few hundred miles. Also, I simply don't have the funds to buy both to try and return the ones I like least.

When I bought the DXR15's I did audition them with the Turbosound Milan MI5's, JBL EON 515XT and a pair from RCF (can't remember which). The Yamaha's were my clear favourites despite people telling me I'd prefer the RCF's!!

I still think the Yamaha DXR15's are the best buy within their price range (& I've preferred them to quite a few speakers costing a fair amount more) and am not sure I will even be changing them.

Some of the things I would like to know are probably more factual than personal opinion :-

1/ Clarity
2/ Maximum output
3/ Bass response (how deep the bass is etc)

--------------------
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OneEng



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073474 - 07/11/13 12:47 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:



Finally, until you learn to trust your own ears you'll spend your entire life posting "A vs B" whenever you want to buy something new, and because you haven't trusted your own ears you'll never be happy with whatever you purchase.




I totally trust my own ears and where possible I would insist on hearing before buying. As I mentioned, the nearest place where I can audition both of these is a few hundred miles. Also, I simply don't have the funds to buy both to try and return the ones I like least.

When I bought the DXR15's I did audition them with the Turbosound Milan MI5's, JBL EON 515XT and a pair from RCF (can't remember which). The Yamaha's were my clear favourites despite people telling me I'd prefer the RCF's!!

I still think the Yamaha DXR15's are the best buy within their price range (& I've preferred them to quite a few speakers costing a fair amount more) and am not sure I will even be changing them.

Some of the things I would like to know are probably more factual than personal opinion :-

1/ Clarity
2/ Maximum output
3/ Bass response (how deep the bass is etc)




Clarity - Probably a toss up between the DSR112 and the DXR15
Max Output - Very likely the DSR112 will go farther over subs (quite a bit farther)
Bass response - no contest. The DXR15 will go noticeably lower than the DSR112

The DXR15 is not built with the same grade of amps and drivers as the DSR's are (thus the price difference and output difference in real life); however, they are remarkably well processed. They simply sound good no matter what you put into them clear up to and including when they clip. They simply clip earlier than the DSR's.

If you really want to hear a beast of a 15" speaker, you should listen to the DSR115's. Yes, they are heavier than the DXR15, but they are absolutely a complete step up from the DXR's in terms of output and capability. I think that the default voicing on the DXR15's was done better. The DSR115 default voicing has a bit too much on top for my taste (as does the DSR112), but once you apply a little eq on the mains .... the DSR115 is a seriously rockin box.

If I was you, I would take my Qu-16 to a shop that has both your current DXR15 and the DSR115 and put them through the ringer as follows:

Have the stereo output of an iPod or similar playback device going into 2 pairs of inputs on your Qu-16 (nice mixer btw) .

Have a sample of some EDM music, and some vocal work that are both of high quality to send into the system.

For each speaker, use a moderate volume level (loud, but not silly) to eq each speaker on a separate pair of stereo inputs such that you get the best sound to your ears possible on each speaker.

.... then crank it up and see how things go.

I would do this with and without a sub.

I think too many people base their speaker buying off of default voicing (ie they put the same input into 2 speakers and the one they like best they buy). With your own rig, you are going to eq it to your liking so default voicing is not a good way to determine how the speaker will sound.

Another thing people fail to do is to push the speakers. The big difference between classes of powered speakers these days isn't the sound quality so much as how far the speaker can be turned up and STILL sound good.

That test is what separated the DSR112 in my testing away from the K12 and KW122 which I thought were great sounding until they got really loud.

If you don't need the volume, then getting a more powerful speaker is a waste of money IMHO.

I play rooms inside of up to 400 people, and sometimes even an outdoor party for just as many so having some gas in the tank was one of my primary purchasing points (note that playing outside I use a pair of subs per side and add side fills to the rig as well).

I think Yamaha struck a great balance with the DXR15. Great default voicing, good output for up to around 100-150 people, and very cost effective.

If you play rock and modern rock for >200 inside, then I would strongly consider the DSR115's. For smaller gatherings, these speakers could carry the house without subs (although I wouldn't do full band gigs without my precious XLF's even if I had DSR115's .... it is against my religion ).

With respect to the 15 vs 12 debate, it depends on the speaker (for clarity and bass extension). One of my favorite all time rigs is the SRX715's over SRX728'S. I have seen rigs like this do a gig outside for > 500 easy. The SRX715's have great vocal clarity and go silly loud and sound great..... so it isn't fair to say that all 12's sound better for vocal clarity than all 15's.... at least not in my experience.


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Falconhell



Joined: 16/01/11
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073481 - 07/11/13 05:25 AM
Regarding the subject of 15" vs 12" there is a rather fundamental fference that a lot of people dont seem to understand, the weight of the speaker cone. Lighter weight = lower inertia =better transient response and damping.

As for the discussion on powered speakers, I like the K12's but they all change tone when driven hard to protect the tiny little compression driver fitted.

Most cone drivers are no longer in pistonic motion above 1K, resorting to breakup mode to go higher. what I hear is top end reducing to protect the compression driver on vocal peaks, for example when the vocal is loud the hihatt disappears.

None of them come close to my old JBL 4726, driven with QSC GX7's for tone equality at all levels. KV2 are about the only ones I would buy.

Make no mistake, these powered speakers can all sound good. They can't sound great, when I try to get a great sound they end up sounding like they want to sound irrespective of what I do, particularly when driving them hard.

Cheap, convenient, good, pick any 2.



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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073487 - 07/11/13 08:33 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Some of the things I would like to know are probably more factual than personal opinion :-

1/ Clarity
2/ Maximum output
3/ Bass response (how deep the bass is etc)




I'd say that points 1 and 3 are subjective, the science behind them doesn't adequately describe or define what they'll actually sound like. For example, some speakers show in the literature a high horn response, in reality that can mean a particularly sharp and fatiguing top-end; not good. In the same way, a low response might actually manifest itself as a farting and wholly un-detailed bass, which again isn't good.

Point 3, that's a can of worms, as you know, as some manufacturers, Mackie being a good example, deliberately mislead with figures that are best wholly unrealistic and worst fraudulent (particularly if you're buying their speaker on output alone).

I do have to smile at the 1000's of YouTube videos, demonstrating A vs B speaker/mic/PA/amp etc, as horrendous compression on YouTube itself, coupled by the horrendously poor PC speaker at the other end, not mentioning the recording process at the front end, make these "comparisons" unreliable and almost pointless. If often comes down to brand loyalty, and therefore making statements to justify why you want to buy their product over another.


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073489 - 07/11/13 09:06 AM
I've done gigs with the DXR15's and EV ELX118p's on some gigs that are easily 200 people minimum and sometimes 300 + and they've been fine. I've not had the limiter light on the DXR's flicker yet.

I'm fairly familiar with a KV2 EX12 and EX2.2 rig which sounds great but a completely different budget and weight.

Ultimately what I'm trying to achieve is to make my life easier by having something that's even lighter than my current rig but be a step up in terms of audio quality, and output (in case I need to use it for bigger gigs).

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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OneEng



Joined: 28/04/13
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073532 - 07/11/13 12:44 PM
Quote dickiefunk:

I've done gigs with the DXR15's and EV ELX118p's on some gigs that are easily 200 people minimum and sometimes 300 + and they've been fine. I've not had the limiter light on the DXR's flicker yet.

I'm fairly familiar with a KV2 EX12 and EX2.2 rig which sounds great but a completely different budget and weight.

Ultimately what I'm trying to achieve is to make my life easier by having something that's even lighter than my current rig but be a step up in terms of audio quality, and output (in case I need to use it for bigger gigs).




If you aren't out of gas with the DXR15's I don't think there is a better speaker out there for doing what you do (that is anywhere near this price point).

If you are suffering from vocal clarity, there may be other things going wrong outside of the FOH speakers. Do you feel you don't have the clarity you want?


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: OneEng]
      #1073591 - 07/11/13 05:29 PM
Quote OneEng:



If you aren't out of gas with the DXR15's I don't think there is a better speaker out there for doing what you do (that is anywhere near this price point).

If you are suffering from vocal clarity, there may be other things going wrong outside of the FOH speakers. Do you feel you don't have the clarity you want?




To be honest I don't feel I'm lacking anything (within reason). I would prefer to get something lighter but be at least as good as the DXR15's without costing a fortune. It would be nice to step things up more if possible but recognise I may already have the best option before spending a serious amount of money.

I'm very curious about the FBT Promaxx 14a as on paper the specs say they go louder and deeper than the DXR15's but are also 4-5kg lighter. The weight of the Promaxx 14a is not far off my Alto TS112a and the thought of having tops this light would be fantastic!
I realize that specs on paper can be very different to real world performance!

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OneEng



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Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073650 - 08/11/13 02:29 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Quote OneEng:



If you aren't out of gas with the DXR15's I don't think there is a better speaker out there for doing what you do (that is anywhere near this price point).

If you are suffering from vocal clarity, there may be other things going wrong outside of the FOH speakers. Do you feel you don't have the clarity you want?




To be honest I don't feel I'm lacking anything (within reason). I would prefer to get something lighter but be at least as good as the DXR15's without costing a fortune. It would be nice to step things up more if possible but recognise I may already have the best option before spending a serious amount of money.

I'm very curious about the FBT Promaxx 14a as on paper the specs say they go louder and deeper than the DXR15's but are also 4-5kg lighter. The weight of the Promaxx 14a is not far off my Alto TS112a and the thought of having tops this light would be fantastic!
I realize that specs on paper can be very different to real world performance!




I would like to hear them as well; however, I am suspect that they won't perform in the LF region as well as a typical 15" (which the DXR is not typical, but rather an exceptional 15") due to the fact that it shares the same enclosure as the 12" model. Typically using a smaller cab leads to less than optimal bass response (the RCF315a comes to mind).

Still, I agree. It is worth a listen for sure


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 971
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1073655 - 08/11/13 07:04 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

I'm very curious about the FBT Promaxx 14a as on paper the specs say they go louder and deeper than the DXR15's but are also 4-5kg lighter.




Really???? The DXR is rated at 1300w, the FBT 900w, the bass response is far greater and the db figures on the Yamaha are superior too.

I've listened to the FBT's, they're not bad, but the mid-range isn't as apparent as the RCF or DSR's. We play live music through our PA's, poor mid-range strikes a speaker off my list immediately. The FBT does have onboard EQ, but to be honest, 8 settings for a "top-end PA" speaker smacks of "top-end DJ" to me. Don't discount the HD12's, they're on-par with the DSR's in almost every respect but they're 12" and they're lighter. Of all of the speakers in this post it's only the HD's that I'd be tempted with, BUT, they're not as loud, and for us we needed a 4 box solution (2 top, 2 bottom) that'll do a 500 venue without too much effort.

Also, listening to a speaker in a shop isn't representative of its actually ability, they perform differently when they're actually on the road. This is my main complaint of the RCF715, which was great in the shop, but when gigging, in reasonably-sized rooms, it runs out of steam long before the DSR115. I can trade a little bit of sound quality for being able to have a setup that's efficient and effective in large rooms, or one that doesn't need setting up to any great extent with EQ.


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
Posts: 2214
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073665 - 08/11/13 09:12 AM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Quote dickiefunk:

I'm very curious about the FBT Promaxx 14a as on paper the specs say they go louder and deeper than the DXR15's but are also 4-5kg lighter.




Really???? The DXR is rated at 1300w, the FBT 900w, the bass response is far greater and the db figures on the Yamaha are superior too.






The DXR15's are 700w RMS (1100w peak) compared to the FBT 14a's 900w RMS. Also the frequency response for the DXR15 is 49Hz-20 Hz and the FBT is 45Hz-20Hz.

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
Posts: 2214
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1073672 - 08/11/13 09:47 AM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Don't discount the HD12's, they're on-par with the DSR's in almost every respect but they're 12" and they're lighter. Of all of the speakers in this post it's only the HD's that I'd be tempted with, BUT, they're not as loud, and for us we needed a 4 box solution (2 top, 2 bottom) that'll do a 500 venue without too much effort.





Yes the HD12's would definitely on my list if it wasn't for the less power output. I noticed that there is now a HD32a which has a fraction more output. I was speaking to a dealer a while back and they thought the HD12's to go louder than the DXR15's!?

I'm wondering if RCF will release a 15" in their D-Line in the future!?

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
Posts: 2214
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1075748 - 22/11/13 01:32 PM
I've decided to stick with the DXR15's as I need the deep bass response for when I'm just using a pair of tops. The only other option that I can think of that would possibly be able to produce that amount of bass and maybe have higher output and audio quality is the FBT Promaxx 14a but at nearly £1800 a pair I can't justify the extra cost. Maybe if a secondhand pair came up extremely cheap I might take a punt on them with the view to sell on without losing too much money if I don't like them.

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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One Horse Town



Joined: 04/04/09
Posts: 126
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1075757 - 22/11/13 02:18 PM
Another issue (not the most important but a close second) is the area of durability. The DXR range is finished with a bog-standard plastic which, I am told, marks very easily. The DSR's are sprayed with something that looks like underseal which doesn't mark or scratch at all. Long term this could be more relevant, especially if or when it comes to selling them.


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OneEng



Joined: 28/04/13
Posts: 152
Loc: MI
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: One Horse Town]
      #1076108 - 24/11/13 10:29 PM
Quote One Horse Town:

Another issue (not the most important but a close second) is the area of durability. The DXR range is finished with a bog-standard plastic which, I am told, marks very easily. The DSR's are sprayed with something that looks like underseal which doesn't mark or scratch at all. Long term this could be more relevant, especially if or when it comes to selling them.



The DSR115 is a better speaker with respect to output and most certainly LF response. It is a relatively heavy speaker though and more expensive than the DXR.

If the OP isn't out of steam with his DXR's I don't see any reason for a change.


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 971
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: One Horse Town]
      #1076118 - 25/11/13 07:22 AM
Quote One Horse Town:

Another issue (not the most important but a close second) is the area of durability. The DXR range is finished with a bog-standard plastic which, I am told, marks very easily. The DSR's are sprayed with something that looks like underseal which doesn't mark or scratch at all. Long term this could be more relevant, especially if or when it comes to selling them.




I have both, they're made of exactly the same materials.


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 971
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1076120 - 25/11/13 07:32 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

I was speaking to a dealer a while back and they thought the HD12's to go louder than the DXR15's!?

I'm wondering if RCF will release a 15" in their D-Line in the future!?




I wonder, was he an RCF dealer, with HD12's in stock, which are on higher margins?????

I'd say he's talking nonsense, the overall output on the HD's isn't anywhere near that of the DXR's. The HD12's have great low/mid response, they're probably the best hifi-sounding of the PA range, which is why I liked them, but they simply weren't loud enough as a solution for my liking.

As for a 15" version, RCF having said "No", primarily because the 15" market is already heavily congested with other successful products, not least their own.

If you want the very best 15" you can buy, go to Martin or Nexo, but you'll be paying £2k a box; anything else below that will be a compromise, it's all down to which compromise you can deal with and which you can't. For me, I wanted a 4 box (2 top, 2 sub) solution that was loud enough to service 99% of the venues we play, which is why I went for the Yamaha's. If I wanted the best sounding 4 box PA it wouldn't have been any of the brands mentioned in these previous threads, but then it would also have been 2 or 3 times the price.


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Sam Spoons
member


Joined: 23/01/03
Posts: 780
Loc: Manchester UK
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1076136 - 25/11/13 09:58 AM
According to Yamaha the DXRs have "Durable, compact ABS Enclosures" and the DSR enclosure material is "LINE-X® coated wood"


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One Horse Town



Joined: 04/04/09
Posts: 126
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1076173 - 25/11/13 12:31 PM
"I have both, they're made of exactly the same materials."

Wrong - also,see Sam Spoons if unconvinced - or go on Yamaha's website.


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 971
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: One Horse Town]
      #1076260 - 25/11/13 06:13 PM
Quote One Horse Town:

"I have both, they're made of exactly the same materials."

Wrong - also,see Sam Spoons if unconvinced - or go on Yamaha's website.




Wrong, we were talking about the finish which is, as I sit looking at both models, exactly the same.


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One Horse Town



Joined: 04/04/09
Posts: 126
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1076266 - 25/11/13 07:19 PM
Without making this unbelievably boring for others I can assure you that the 'coating' applied to DSR speakers is different to the smooth plastic finish on DXR's. I viewed both models up close and as Sam Spoons has already mentioned that's why Yamaha bring your attention to it and charge accordingly. I won't be commenting again - I'm nodding off.


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OneEng



Joined: 28/04/13
Posts: 152
Loc: MI
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: One Horse Town]
      #1076293 - 26/11/13 12:27 AM
Quote One Horse Town:

Without making this unbelievably boring for others I can assure you that the 'coating' applied to DSR speakers is different to the smooth plastic finish on DXR's. I viewed both models up close and as Sam Spoons has already mentioned that's why Yamaha bring your attention to it and charge accordingly. I won't be commenting again - I'm nodding off.




Even if the finish was identical (I don't think it is), nothing else in the box is. Both the HF and LF drivers are a big upgrade over the DXR's as are the amplifiers.

The DSR speakers are the top of the food chain in their price category to my ears (I have auditioned most of them). I didn't A/B them with Martin's, but I did A/B them with SRX speakers. You would have to put some time into eq'ing either an SRX712 or SRX715 to make them sound as good as their DSR powered counterparts. The powered speakers have this speaker processing done inside of the box. Of course I may have had a different impression if I were using a DriveRack 260 with its presets for the SRX speakers (which I didn't).

There are better speakers out there if you are willing to pay for it. I think the Meyer UPA-1P's are about the best I have ever heard ...... as they should be for $4500.00 each. Having said that, I think the DSR's get you 80% of the way there at less than $1K each.

The DXR's are less expensive, lighter, and sound pretty darned good. They just don't reach as far as the DSR's. I know LOTS of people that are very very happy with their DXR15's.


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
Posts: 2214
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1076295 - 26/11/13 12:34 AM
Those Meyers would be sweet if they didn't weigh 34kg each!! That's heavier than my powered 18" subs!!
I guess that quality doesn't some light!?

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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OneEng



Joined: 28/04/13
Posts: 152
Loc: MI
Re: Yamaha DXR vs DSR vs FBT Promaxx? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1076873 - 30/11/13 03:07 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Those Meyers would be sweet if they didn't weigh 34kg each!! That's heavier than my powered 18" subs!!
I guess that quality doesn't some light!?




I didn't pick them up, I just listened in awe

I saw Train and Lifehouse on a beach with around 100 other people in Cancun a couple of years ago. They were using a powered Meyer rig. It sounded fantastic. Best sounding 12" tops I have ever heard. They were using the 2p's and had 2 per side with a center channel and a couple of subs under stage.

I had never heard of Meyer before that and wrote down the model number of the tops in hopes of finding a pair for myself. I was crestfallen when I saw the price. I thought "yep. Best sounding speakers I have ever heard .... figures I will never be able to afford a pair"


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