Hi guys,

What ratio of bass in RMS to mids and treb for an outdoor thumping acid / techno party?

In other words if my subs are 1K RMS each and my Mid Trebs are 1K RMS also. DO I need two Subs per one Mid/Treb? Or evens of both?

I ask as obviously techno is a very bass heavy and pounding type of music. A bass shy system could easily detract from things. So, thought Id run this Q by you all.

Cheers.

Heyho, it will depend on environment and quality of equipment, but as an average I would have twice the power for the subs as for the tops. That recommendation is based on the type of music being played, but as I have already said is dependent on quality of gear.My posh tops have a dedicated sub which has exactly the same power output but is extremely well designed. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Hi Dave,

Im quite skint mate so its chance to be all Behringer!.

What system you got then Dave?

Hi, My main tops are now fairly old TQ445dp made by Turbosound...they are awesome (often seen in O2 academies) and robust, but not made anymore. My subs (all 3600 watts of them) struggle to live with them....the tops are 1600watts each by the way. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

When you say outdoor, is it in a marquee, or field?

Walls reflect sound, obviously, so a gig with no walls needs a lot more sound power

Quote DonBelfastDJs:

---

Walls reflect sound, obviously, so a gig with no walls needs a lot more sound power...

---

... and an escape route for when the rozzers come round to impound your gear.

One limited company to own the gear and a signed hire contract with the event organiser.... Who might also happen to be the chief executive of the hire company, hire company contacts police, gets their gear back......

Thumping outdoor rave? At least ten KW of really good boxes, or a totally stupid amount of cheap [ ****** ]. Remember that speaker sensitivity matters, and particularly with cheap subs running the numbers can be eye opening, the good stuff can be easily 10db more efficient then the cheap stuff and that equates to only needing one tenth as much of it.

Also for those styles you will really benefit from the bottom octave being there, and that always needs stupid power levels (And huge boxes).

1:2:4 between the mid high packs, woofers and subs is not my any means out of line for this stuff (But allow for the sensitivity numbers as well).

Personally for an outdoor rave I would not bring less then 20KW of something in the class of Nexo alpha or Turbosound flash/flood, and there are circumstances where that might be a bit thin.

Don't forget also that particularly with horn loaded subs, mouth area is everything, and half or even quarter space loading can really help, particularly with the really low stuff.

Probably not what you were hoping to hear, but outdoors really does suffer from lack of reverb and the required power levels are way up because of it.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!

I've run a 20k triamped rig in a festival dance tent with half the sides open, and still had complaints from people at the back that it wasn't loud enough.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

Gawd.

--------------------
PA stuff on FB

Hi guys,

Gotta get straight what this is.

Its for a beech party. Not so much a huge thousand person event. More 100 people or so.

There no way I could afford anywhere near 20K of even behringer gear.

Quote Kolakube:

---

Its for a beech party.

---

Treemendous!

But this is just you and your mates having a party, right? Just set up whatever you've got - they won't be expecting Glastonbury, will they?

hmmmm, not just me and my mates as such. Me and my mates and who ever passes by at the time in Aiya Napa.

I aim to build it up but I have to start small. And cheap.

So whats the word on cheap PA? Anyone make some good recommendations to me. I know people slag Behringer but ive never had a prob with there stuff from a value for money prospective.

Anygood?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B815NEO.aspx
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/VP1800S.aspx

Looking at 2 subs per one top.

You are aware that the 1800S is not a powered box? It will need a external power amp and probably low/high pass filter and protection.

As far as those units go, the cut sheets for the B815 lack certain important details, what are the levels the frequency response is quoted for? What dispersion (Just saying wide is not really that helpful)?

I would guess that the B815 will be very unlikely to array well, so you are really limited to one stack per side with that choice of mid/high pack.
127dBSpl @ 1m max is also somewhat anaemic for a techno party even close to, and you will loose 6db with each doubling of distance (Critical distances can be really long out doors), so 121dB @ 2m, 115 @ 4m, 109 @ 8m, and those are specified maximum levels for the box, probably without ANY headroom, it will sound like arse if you push it that hard.

End of the day, it is a really cheap rig and is what it is, but do not expect it to be something more no matter how much of it you pile up.

Have you considered the second hand market?

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!

Hi, Sorry Dan I meant the active version here

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B1800D-PRO.aspx

Yes it is a cheap rig but then its totally non profit making. So I really cant afford any more.

Yes Id gladly consider the second hand market but remember postage to Cyprus will likely cost more than the items themselves.

what about hiring a decent rig for the occasion

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com

Bossman, yeah I think that's going to be the way to go.

Ok, so whats a decent rig for a beech party? Keep in mind I don't want it that loud it attracts too much Police attention.

I only want around 100 people. If I get too much attention I could be made to get a license etc where as if its kept smallish, well your allowed a private party and if others join in that's not really my fault soft of thing. Honest guv

--------------------
(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

I did the beach stage at Glass Butter Beach last year, for a similar number of people, with a pair of Kling & Freitag SW118E-SPs and Line 212-9 - SP - but they are very efficient and forgiving speakers!

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

How much they cost you mate? Ive never heard of them before. So ther either going to be superb or worse than the behringers I pointed out

Whats Mackie stuff like? Way better than Behringer?

K & F? Superb kit, really very, very nice stuff, but not in the same price class as the Berry & Mackie of this world.

If you are looking in the plastic mackie money region then I would be looking at the low end RCF boxes.
Mackie is a slightly better class of cheap gear generally, but is slightly more expensive.

What to hire depends on what is available locally, UK hire ideas are not going to be too useful to you.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!

Quote Kolakube:

---

How much they cost you mate? Ive never heard of them before. So ther either going to be superb or worse than the behringers I pointed out

---

They weren't mine! I was working for the company that imports them into the UK, who have a large hire stock. I just used that as an illustration of the sort of power levels you should be thinking about.

And, yes, they are very, very nice kit!

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.

Quote Kolakube:

---

Whats Mackie stuff like? Way better than Behringer?

---

Yes. WAY better. Mackie is decent quality kit, Behringer P.A. stuff is utter gash. Don't even think about it.

But hiring the rig has got to be the way forward. I can vouch for this company:

http://www.stuksound.com/links.htm

--------------------
Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Thanks Richard. (Wow, another geordie on here)

Yeah I think ill be hiring fella.