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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Vertical hanging extender arm
      #1055365 - 03/07/13 12:25 PM
Hi all.

The Sontronics Matrix 10 used to come with a vertical hanging extender arm, as described in Hugh's review of the mic stand. It doesn't any more, I believe I got the last. I can see why, they are very poorly made and strip their threads and suchlike problems (no such problems with the Matrix 10 itself, superb stand, just the drop arm is useless). Trouble is, I rather got the taste for using it while it did work and I want to replace it. However Googling around for phrases like vertical hanging extender or drop arm is not getting me very far. Can anybody tell me what I should be searching for or recommend one for me?

TIA,

CC

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Stef Andrews



Joined: 04/07/07
Posts: 517
Loc: Sussex, UK
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055384 - 03/07/13 01:42 PM
We use a Matrix 10 with a short boom from a K&M short mic stand. Not perfect, but does the job rather well!

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21577
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Stef Andrews]
      #1055385 - 03/07/13 01:45 PM
I still have the original prototype drop arm for the Matrix 10 and it still works fine. These arms were made locally for Sontronics, quite separately from the bought-in Chinese studio-lighting tripod which is the matrix 10. I've not used the full production version and I'm very disappointed to hear that they were of poor quality. The drop arm was/is very useful and I'm not surprised to want to replace it.

The Latch Lake mic stands are very expensive, but very well engineered, and the drop-arm is available as an accessory (at around £70!)

So take a look at the latch lake mic king spingrip

http://www.latchlakemusic.com/spingrip.html

H

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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1055432 - 03/07/13 04:21 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:


and the drop-arm is available as an accessory (at around £70!)




And then there's VAT

The drop arm (at least mine, anyway) has a couple of plastic collars that you twist to lock the vertical tubes in the position you want. It's the thread inside these that seems to have worn out very quickly. I'm keeping the thing going, just about, by winding some masking tape over the thread on the tubes but it's a little precarious and I worry when I attach something as weighty as my Gemini III. So I will have a serious think about the Spingrip.

Trouble is, a drop arm is one of those things that you don't realise how useful it is until you've got one.

Quote Stef Andrews:

We use a Matrix 10 with a short boom from a K&M short mic stand. Not perfect, but does the job rather well!




Interesting thought.

Thanks both,

CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
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Mike Stranks
active member


Joined: 03/01/03
Posts: 3702
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055468 - 03/07/13 08:17 PM
Just a thought and following on from Stef's comment...

... would one of THESE be any good? Maybe cheap enough to try on spec and if not then not too much lost...


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ronmac



Joined: 27/09/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055478 - 03/07/13 08:53 PM
http://onstagestands.com/products/category/posi-loksystem

I use the posi-lok and have been very happy withe price and performance.


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055520 - 04/07/13 08:13 AM
Thanks again. I've decided to give one of these on the grounds that it only costs 12 quid and if it doesn't work out for this I can probably use it for something. If it doesn't then I've got plenty more to try now

I'll report back when I get it.

CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21577
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055553 - 04/07/13 10:18 AM
That looks a really handy thing, actually. I like the 3/8 at one end and 5/8 at the other too. Let us know how it works out please.

H

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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1055569 - 04/07/13 11:52 AM
Ambient do a vertical henger they call a QAVS MikeLink vertical swivel



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President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1055678 - 04/07/13 06:11 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

That looks a really handy thing, actually. I like the 3/8 at one end and 5/8 at the other too. Let us know how it works out please.




Will do. Incidentally I dismantled the Sontronics arm and as a result I've changed my opinion. The inner threads are not worn, rather the tube is the wrong size for the threads and it's a wonder to me it ever worked even for the short time it did. The story is that I phoned Sontronics when I didn't get an arm with the stand and they said they no longer supplied them but they had one lying around the office and would I like it? I now think that the arm was lying around the office for a reason - it didn't work! Probably the ones that went out were indeed fine and I just happened to be given one that was originally never intended for sale. I'd certainly rather believe that than the alternative. As a workaround I've lathered the threaded bits with Araldite. I lose the ability to adjust the length of the arm but keep the ability to change its angle, which is the most important bit (and of course it's no longer on the point of falling to bits all the time).

CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056326 - 08/07/13 02:46 PM
Well, here it is, the K&M 21431 mini boom arm, in its new home on the end of my Matrix 10:-



As you can see it fits there like it was made for it and for the price I paid (£17.25 including VAT and p&p) I am very, very pleased with it. It also feels well made, no uncertainty in the clamp, for instance. Having connectors at both ends I can see would also give a potential use as a wide stereo bar lofted up high on the Matrix 10.

CC

--------------------
Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21577
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056347 - 08/07/13 05:06 PM
Excellent -- and with good value for money, too.

And even cheaper from Thomann!

H

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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1056348 - 08/07/13 05:14 PM
From here, i.e. German outfit Musicoy via Amazon. Delivery took 5 days.

CC

PS Anyone wondering why my post starts in the abrupt way it does, Hugh's post used to say "May we ask where you bought it?"

Edited by ConcertinaChap (08/07/13 05:18 PM)


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
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Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056350 - 08/07/13 05:19 PM
Sorry about that! I thought that sounded a good price, and then discovered Thomann had it even cheaper! I've just bought two following your enthusiastic report!

H

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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1056351 - 08/07/13 05:22 PM


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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056473 - 09/07/13 12:47 PM
Co-opting a passing stereo bar innocently minding its own business gives a rather neat way of incorporating a Reflexion filter.



CC

--------------------
Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21577
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056513 - 09/07/13 03:30 PM
Nice!

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alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1776
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056520 - 09/07/13 04:14 PM
Quote ConcertinaChap:

Co-opting a passing stereo bar innocently minding its own business gives a rather neat way of incorporating a Reflexion filter.



CC




Sweet!

I've noticed the last two photos posted on this thread have the microphone in the "upside down" position. Assuming no female singers involved, is there any sonic advantage to doing that? Old threads suggest it helps to keep the microphone stand from being hit by gesticulating singers, perhaps that's all in these cases also?

Thanks -

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: alexis]
      #1056527 - 09/07/13 04:46 PM
Two reasons I do it: 1) the Gemini has two valves. I don't suppose it matters but it just seems a good idea to have the heat rising away from the capsule. 2) (and mainly) with a big stand like the Matrix 10 having the boom come in from the side and then lowering the mic + Reflexion in front of the singer feels a lot more comfortable for them in my experience, especially when they're seated and playing guitar; plus it leaves plenty of space in front for the guitar mics.

CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
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Ron Snijders



Joined: 03/09/12
Posts: 121
Loc: Netherlands
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056537 - 09/07/13 05:27 PM
Having the mic upside down also allows for the cable to be lead away to the stand slightly neater (though that's not the case in the pic).
And it looks cooler


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Ron Snijders]
      #1056543 - 09/07/13 06:21 PM
Quote Ron Snijders:

And it looks cooler




Couldn't agree more. Looking cool in front of the customer (i.e. as if you know what you're doing) is half the battle.

The mic was just set up for the photo, not for serious use, so I didn't bother about the cable (bugger! I look as if I don't know what I'm doing )

cc

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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Ron Snijders



Joined: 03/09/12
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1056544 - 09/07/13 06:29 PM
Haha, that pic will haunt you until the end of your days!
(Said the bedroom studio hero who hangs his mic and reflection screen from one of those K&M stage stands...)


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1057085 - 12/07/13 12:32 PM
I just wanted to report good service!

I ordered two of these KM21431 mini boom arms from Thomann and received them a couple of days later. However, one was faulty in that it had managed to get through the factory without having a thread cut into the mounting bracket, so it can't be mounted onto the end of a mic stand. The defect is not obvious on casual inspection and it was clearly a simple manufacturing and QC error.

I contacted Thomann and explained the problem, sending a picture to make the defect as clear as possible, and they instantly agreed to send a replacement without requiring the defective one back (the additional postage would presumably remove any profit in such a low cost item!).

So I'd just like to commend Thomann on its grief-free, fast, efficient, and intelligent customer support.

H

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alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1776
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1057088 - 12/07/13 12:55 PM
My problem was I needed to support an original (= heavy) Reflection filter over my keyboard for simultaneous singing and playing. Mounting it all on a vertical stand didn't work, either the classic way or the SOS mod way, because the reach forward over the keyboards wasn't long enough, and the pole would be banging on the back of the keyboard. I had a boom stand, but the Reflection Filter was so heavy it made the arm sag, and I had to "hang" 30 pounds of dumb bells off the back of the arm as a counterweight, and also 50 pounds of dumbells on one of the three tripod legs as well to keep the whole thing from tipping forward. No wheels either, and I lived in constant fear it would one day give way and the R Filter would crash on my keyboard, ruining it. Very unsatisfying in many respects.

The Sontronics Matrix is apparently sold in the US on-line, but *very* expensive, about $350 Sontronics Matrix on-line in USA . So I went to Sam Ash and found a unit for about $150, which works great. Wheels, long arm with a built-in counter-balance, heavy iron-like base - it seems steady as a rock. I did need to buy a vertical rise bar to attach the Reflection filter to.

On-Stage Stands Hex SMX7650

Thanks to all for helping me think through this with your helpful posts, maybe this will help someone else here in the States with similar needs.

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2566
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: alexis]
      #1057179 - 13/07/13 09:03 AM
Quote alexis:

an original (= heavy) Reflection filter




As an aside, the other day I weighed my Reflexion filters without the associated ironmongery. The original weighs 1.3 kg while the Project weighs 1.1 kg. Interestingly the support ironmongery weighed 0.95 kg, so it nearly doubles the weight. Being able to ditch all that and replace it with one cheap K&M stereo bar (weight, 66 gm) means not only simplifying radically the attachment of filter and mic but also getting shot of all that weight. I can only imagine sE came up with the attachment design in an attempt to make the filter look better value for money ("Never mind the quality, feel the width!")

CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1057182 - 13/07/13 09:42 AM
Actually I think it came about because they had some spare tractor parts kicking about the factory....

We've all complained about the ludicrous iron-mongery on the Reflexion Filter since day 1, and although it was revised a year or two ago it's still horrendous. The concept of a 'centre of gravity' appears to be lost to sE's designers.

H

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ManFromGlass



Joined: 24/07/11
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1057216 - 13/07/13 01:32 PM
My friend would call these pictures mic porn! And damn if she isn't correct! Lol and thanks for the brilliant ideas.
Eric


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1063439 - 23/08/13 01:29 PM
Quote:

I'm indebted, then, to a long-term SOS forum member, for bringing an excellent gadget, the K&M 21431 mini boom arm, to my attention.




Aw, shucks!



CC

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Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: Vertical hanging extender arm new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1063440 - 23/08/13 01:30 PM


h

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