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niallharp



Joined: 03/12/04
Posts: 67
Recording Baroque Duo!?
      #1056470 - 09/07/13 12:27 PM
Hi. i've just been booked to record a Baroque Violin and Theorbo / Baroque Guitar duo in a small church.
My kit is
Gefell um70
Gefell umt70
Gefell m300 (might be able to get my hands on a second)
Neumann Tlm103
Neumann Kms105

Broadhurst Gardens B.G.1.
Metric halo 2882.

If i can get the second gefell m300, I hope do x/y with them halfway up the isle, and a mid/side recording with the umt70 and um70 towards the back of the church.
If i can't should i close mic the instruments with the m300 and tlm103? and mix them into the m\s if needed?

Any sugguestions?
Gotcha's?

I'm kinda concerned about placing mic stands in the aisle of a church..

Thanks,
n


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andy cross
member


Joined: 22/04/03
Posts: 194
Loc: Cambridge, England
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1056499 - 09/07/13 02:37 PM
Quote niallharp:

I'm kinda concerned about placing mic stands in the aisle of a church..




Is it a concert you're recording?


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twotoedsloth



Joined: 26/01/08
Posts: 627
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1056556 - 09/07/13 07:32 PM
You probably only need one "main pair", be that XY or MS. I'd consider putting omnis in the pews as flanks and close mic the theorbo and violin.

Keep in mind the theorbo is never as loud as you want it to be.


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niallharp



Joined: 03/12/04
Posts: 67
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1056580 - 09/07/13 09:07 PM
yup. live concert.
looks like i can get a 2nd m300, or a pair of peluso sdc's, so can do and x/y closer and m/s towards the rear of the church.
There may be a problem with the omni on one of the um70's. If not, am i better off using them as room omni's, or m/s towards the rear of the room. And why?
I suppose i could close mic each with the tlm103 and kms105. Bor better yet i can get my hands on a km84...
argh! descisions, descisions...


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tacitus



Joined: 04/02/08
Posts: 970
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1056743 - 10/07/13 03:42 PM
For a concert, I'd use a single matched pair for choice, and with these sorts of instruments I'd probably mike a little closer than normal but not actually 'close-miked'. Just enough to get some presence and keep the background noise to a reasonable level. I have done that, and sometimes added spots on the instruments, but usually I find it's better to stick to the main pair and get the position right for that. If you don't have time to check the positions out, you may have to spot anyway, in case you have to mix some in later, of course. But if you can get the other half of the pair, I'd go that way, with an ORTF set up. It sounds risky, but I've usually done better with a well-placed pair than having lots of spots and not finding a good way to get them in the final mix. But that's me, and I do tend towards indolence ...


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niallharp



Joined: 03/12/04
Posts: 67
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1057113 - 12/07/13 04:14 PM
Thanks a Million Guys!
In the end the advice given, in conjunction with acoustic, time and space restrictions, i ended up with the tlm103 1m above the baroque violin, the m300 low 70cmish the body of the Theorb, and a Rode nt4 stereo mic between the pews on 2-3m back from the musicians, placed quite high. Possibly because the roof was a high arch, the nt4 sounded like a cathedral, massive ambience, but still a good image. A Smidgeon of low pass filtered spot mics (more to bring the theorb into focus really) brought a lot of clarity into the big picture. The Clients were really happy with the rough mix I played them after the concert.
Being part of this community is really valuable and worthwhile. The advice given here and elsewhere really helped focus on the issues, and problem presented in this session, and played a big part in the result. Thanks to everybody who bother to help others out in these forums. It makes a difference.You Rock.
n


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tacitus



Joined: 04/02/08
Posts: 970
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: niallharp]
      #1057180 - 13/07/13 09:03 AM
Glad it worked well for you - it's a continual surprise to me how even a small church can sound acoustically huge, but as I sat in a small-church concert last night looking at all the space and the reflective surfaces, it started to seem a bit less amazing. I was totally surprised by the amount of noise a recorder consort can make in a church, though! Very nice atmosphere on a summer night with the door and windows open - did you get that sort of ambience in your recording?


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niallharp



Joined: 03/12/04
Posts: 67
Re: Recording Baroque Duo!? new [Re: tacitus]
      #1057350 - 14/07/13 03:02 PM
Tacitus, I started with the stereo nt4 about halfway down the small, very hight ceiling'd church. There was heavy carpet on the floor... To me it seemed like a very short, tight ambience, for a church, but as i monitored the nt4, clapping and giving the, the odd shout, what i heard in the cans sounded huge, cathedral-y. Not massively long, but very big. So i moved the stand closer, and closer, till it was only about 2.5m away from the musicians but also 2m off the floor (which was still less than a third of the way from floor to roof.) The musicians were very happy with the rough balance between the spot mics and the room. If i heard that mix i would assume it was recorded in a cathedral or some other really large, reflective space. I learned that what your ears tell you might not be what the mic picks up, that you must consider the hight of the room as much as the length, and perhaps that the highter the mic is, the bigger the room sounds... hmmm....

Twotowedsloth. you're dead right. The close mic'd m300 on the theobro was vital. otherwise the violin would have completely overpowered the session. I used only tiniest amount of the violin spot to add a little bit of definition. The room covered the baroque guitar and tamboura no problem, but the theobro, with it's dark deep sound, got eaten by the ambience and absolutely totally needed a good bit of the spot mic. Spot on advice!

Nice one!


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