Music Manic
active member
Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 1884
Loc: London UK
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Which size cymbals are these?
#989859 - 27/05/12 02:27 PM
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Hi guys! Could someone tell me which cymbals these are? They come in around
1:50secs Led
Zeppelin - Bring it on home I've heard the track on headphones and the
cymbals sound very smooth and hold their space well. There's no hard transient or stick
sound, but it still sounds crisp. Where drums multi - mic'ed in those days? Thanks
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Music Manic
active member
Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 1884
Loc: London UK
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989864 - 27/05/12 03:13 PM
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I've just been googling and he used the Paiste cymbals. The one used here were probably
the thin 18" and 20".
I'm still interested in the sound production though.
There's none of the sound that you get from the stick, just a clean crisp washy sound. Is
this part of the technique or is it created by compression, or do the thin type cymbals
just sound that way?
Thanks
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Frank Rideau
Joined: 21/03/11
Posts: 186
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989878 - 27/05/12 04:32 PM
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No specific advice to give on processing but if you are focusing on the cymbals, be
careful not to make them too loud in the mix. I think that a good starting point for them
to sound smooth and holding the proper space is to actually find the right balance
(volume) and space (panning) in the mix, not that much more complicated.
-------------------- http://soundcloud.com/orgasmo-sonore Revisiting Obscure Film Music
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Beat Poet
Joined: 21/01/12
Posts: 153
Loc: Hertfordshire, UK
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989916 - 27/05/12 10:07 PM
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Quote Music Manic:
I'm still
interested in the sound production though. There's none of the sound that you get from the
stick, just a clean crisp washy sound. Is this part of the technique or is it created by
compression, or do the thin type cymbals just sound that way?
Generally people say that Bonham battered
the tubs and was gentle with the cymbals, I imagine that's where the washy sound comes
from. Crashes on alot of old 60s and 70s records sound very "easy" to listen to, compared
to today where they really do accent the changes.
--------------------
Do you need real drum tracks? http://www.drumtracksdirect.co.uk/
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Gone To Lunch
member
Joined: 11/06/04
Posts: 856
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989920 - 27/05/12 11:13 PM
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I seem to remember, from Drummer mags of the period, that he used the acclaimed Paiste
Formula 602 cymbals, which were popular with jazzers, especially the legendary Joe Morello (with the
Dave Brubeck Quartet, here) The 602s were sadly discontinued a few years
ago, but could be had second hand from ebay for astronomical prices....so much so that
Paiste actually re-introduced the range HEREFWIW, Bonham was a very gifted
player, so much of the sound would be in the technique rather than the cymbal per se....
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Gone To Lunch
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Joined: 11/06/04
Posts: 856
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989921 - 27/05/12 11:28 PM
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Just checked with.....and they say he used Paiste 2002s...
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mjfe2
Joined: 11/10/09
Posts: 503
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989941 - 28/05/12 08:06 AM
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Quote Music Manic:
Hi guys!
Could someone tell me which cymbals these are? They come in around 1:50secs
Led Zeppelin - Bring
it on home
I've heard the track on headphones and the cymbals sound very
smooth and hold their space well. There's no hard transient or stick sound, but it still
sounds crisp.
Where drums multi - mic'ed in those days?
Thanks
Glad you asked this question cos
I've done a lot of research on Bonzo's sound, and find it to be just perfect in terms of
tuning, cymbal and snare choice, miking etc!
On the track you mentioned he was
probably using Paiste Giant Beat 18" and 20" crashes. The GBs were Paiste's precursor to
their 2002 cymbals, which Bonzo switched to later. They were basically brighter versions
of their Formula 602 set, made from B8 rather than B20 bronze so they cut through
amplification better. However, by modern standards they're still quite mellow.
As for the hi hats on that track, I'm pretty sure Bonzo stuck with 602 hats (probably
15" sound edge) because GB hats are the only cymbal from the GB set that have disappointed
drummers since they got reissued. As for the ride, I don't think the studio version of
'Bring It On Home' features a ride, but Bonzo tended to use the 24" GB ride or sometimes a
22" 602 ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm3zUQjG5no
In terms of
miking, it probably would have been something minimal, Glyn Johns style: 
(I realise this photo is a more a
presentational shot e.g. the SDC is facing Bonzo rather than the kit, but it still gives
some idea of the arrangements they were using when they recorded Led Zeppelin II on the
road!) To my ears LZII, along with all the early albums, has a very compressed drum sound
-- hence the 'bwooshy' sound of the cymbals. Sometimes they used beyer ribbon mics, and
of course everything was recorded to tape, so all of this explains why the cymbals sound
so nice and smooth...
Anyway, good luck!
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James Perrett
Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 9645
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#989948 - 28/05/12 08:45 AM
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That sound is technique - I'd create it by swiping the cymbal with the shoulder of the
stick rather than hitting it directly. You can always tell how good a drummer
is by the smoothness of the crashes - beginners always seem to just whack the crash with
no finesse. James.
-------------------- JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net
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Music Manic
active member
Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 1884
Loc: London UK
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: Music Manic]
#990025 - 28/05/12 02:12 PM
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Thanks guys, great stuff!
Love it here!
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Stef Andrews
Joined: 04/07/07
Posts: 434
Loc: Sussex, UK
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: James Perrett]
#990117 - 28/05/12 10:42 PM
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Mmmm, I always find this an interesting discussion - it always seems Bonham that people
try to emulate. That said, I'm certainly not suggesting they shouldn't - easily one of the
best ever. However I think it certainly matters more as to whom is hitting the drums and
metalwork, as to *what* they're hitting IMO. Although, that goes for most drummers in most
genres. But if you haven't got the drumming style etc. down, the kit could be
one of Bonzo's own from the 70's - you still won't sound like him.
-------------------- www.sda-audio.co.uk
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Gone To Lunch
member
Joined: 11/06/04
Posts: 856
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Re: Which size cymbals are these?
[Re: James Perrett]
#990122 - 29/05/12 12:07 AM
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Quote James Perrett:
That sound
is technique - I'd create it by swiping the cymbal with the shoulder of the stick rather
than hitting it directly.
You can always tell how good a drummer is by the
smoothness of the crashes - beginners always seem to just whack the crash with no
finesse.
James.
+1.
And while we're on the subject....listen carefully to Bonzo's cymbal work
after the drums enter in 'Stairway to Heaven', esp they way he gently crashes the ride by
using the shoulder (of course he could be riding on a crash, but the technique is the
same)...
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