Hello,
I am in the market for two multi pattern mics for classical stereo recording.

I already own a sE2200a. The mark two version stands out as a newcomer but I stumbled across the rode NT2a.
My instincts say go for the Rode so I could have more choice in the mic cabinet and its regarded highly.

I would like to go into more detail but I'm on the most frustrating typing experience with a cheap tablet

Budget is 550 pounds.

Regards
Bbk

Quote BBK:

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Hello,
I am in the market for two multi pattern mics for classical stereo recording.

I already own a sE2200a. The mark two version stands out as a newcomer but I stumbled across the rode NT2a.
My instincts say go for the Rode so I could have more choice in the mic cabinet and its regarded highly.

I would like to go into more detail but I'm on the most frustrating typing experience with a cheap tablet

Budget is 550 pounds.

Regards
Bbk

---

Personally I think that classical recordings are better with ribbon mics. All those condenser mics are brittle high up and lack body low down.

Thanks for the reply.

I've never used ribbons before but all my experience is based in ORTF, Blumlien, spaced pairs and what not.

Certainly, an ORTF recording I did of a brass band lacked ever so slightly in lowend for my tastes, and they were Neumann TLM170s.

Do any ribbons stand out for you?

Even my smilie got put in the wrong place.
Avoid the Arnova 10b G3:-(

Thanks again

Quote BBK:

---

Hello,
I am in the market for two multi pattern mics for classical stereo recording.

I already own a sE2200a. The mark two version stands out as a newcomer but I stumbled across the rode NT2a.
My instincts say go for the Rode so I could have more choice in the mic cabinet and its regarded highly.

I would like to go into more detail but I'm on the most frustrating typing experience with a cheap tablet

Budget is 550 pounds.

Regards
Bbk

---

With that budget, I would not buy mikes to do that job, I would hire them.

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Google less; read more!

I'm not familiar with the SE2200a but a cursory glance at it's frequency response would indicate it has a high end lift which may be counterproductive for classical music recording. Certainly the NT2a has a rather hard top end too.

For your budget I'd be thinking of a pair of Rode NT55s. This would enable X/Y, ORTF and spaced pair options. The cardioid capsules are reasonable and the omni capsules are really very good indeed.

My go to mics for classical recording are Neumann TLM193s and KM183s, which would be out of your budget. But I still use the NT55 omni capsule too, pretty much the same as the KM183s.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

+1 to Bob's NT55 suggestion. For the money, you'd have to work hard to do much better. And to be honest, if you don't do a lot of this style of recording, your technique (and the acoustics of the venue) will be bigger factors in getting a good recording.

If you're recording great musicians in a great acoustic, it's a lot easier than modest musicians in the sort of acoustic they often get to play in. In neither case will the lack of ribbon mics or whatever be the limiting factor. Honest.

Quote tacitus:

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+1 to Bob's NT55 suggestion. For the money, you'd have to work hard to do much better. And to be honest, if you don't do a lot of this style of recording, your technique (and the acoustics of the venue) will be bigger factors in getting a good recording.

If you're recording great musicians in a great acoustic, it's a lot easier than modest musicians in the sort of acoustic they often get to play in. In neither case will the lack of ribbon mics or whatever be the limiting factor. Honest.

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No, but all things being equal, for recordings of strings and/or piano in classical music, ribbons will give a more musical outcome. (If you are capeable of hearing the difference, that is).

Thanks for the reply.

The NT55 does look quite good. The dedicated capsules are a plus.
I don't know why I didn't consider SDCs. Some of my best recordings were with DPA 4007s.

More to think about :-)

Thanks,
Bbk

Yeah, Ariosto, I agree all things being equal, but we're talking budget and possibly a whole load of other constraints. I think I'd rather buy a pair of NT55's (which I did) and go round using them as much as possible than hire a pari of ribbons once in a blue moon and not be 100% confident of what I was doing.

In all honesty, I can't see the situation arising where I get to record a great performer in such a great venue that it would be worth going a lot further than I have. Added to which, most of the clients I've recorded classical for are fairly old ... cpome to that, I'm getting on a bit myself!

Quote tacitus:

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Yeah, Ariosto, I agree all things being equal, but we're talking budget and possibly a whole load of other constraints. I think I'd rather buy a pair of NT55's (which I did) and go round using them as much as possible than hire a pari of ribbons once in a blue moon and not be 100% confident of what I was doing.

In all honesty, I can't see the situation arising where I get to record a great performer in such a great venue that it would be worth going a lot further than I have. Added to which, most of the clients I've recorded classical for are fairly old ... cpome to that, I'm getting on a bit myself!

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Hi Tacitus - that's fair enough and for me the ribbons are a luxury - but I do hope to use them a fair bit.

I do intend going for a ribbon or two at some point though for my needs, the NT55 or NT2A would give me an upgrade against the se1a and se2200a mark1 respectively for studio work or more likely give me more options. Im branching out rather than only doing classical. The NT55 will give me a bigger boost in the studio as well as a respectable stereo classical recording options. I suppose i wont miss fig8 too much.

*ponders*

Bob's call on TLM193s is a good one.

However, I would still hire these in preference to the other mid-range condensers on offer.

Recording with ribbons would require you to have a pre with a suitable amount of clean gain. Some might regard them (particularly ribbons within your budget) as having a "sound", (the correct technical term is their voicing however).

Reg

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Google less; read more!

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Recording with ribbons would require you to have a pre with a suitable amount of clean gain. Some might regard them (particularly ribbons within your budget) as having a "sound", (the correct technical term is their voicing however).

Reg

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Yes, absolutely right. Royer for instance recommend 60-70 dB of gain. I have a pre that has 59 dB of very clean gain and I find this is excellent with such mics, and it need not necessarily be close miking although I do mic close to lessen the room sound when I'm recording at home. If I then add a tiny bit of plate reverb later I get excellent results. But then I only record classical music - strings and/or piano. I get brilliant results with grand piano where the mics are about one foot out and looking into the instrument with the lid up. (Or also a stereo pair a bit further out (say four feet) with another instrument playing in the piano curve).

Quote Ariosto:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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Recording with ribbons would require you to have a pre with a suitable amount of clean gain. Some might regard them (particularly ribbons within your budget) as having a "sound", (the correct technical term is their voicing however).

Reg

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Yes, absolutely right. Royer for instance recommend 60-70 dB of gain. I have a pre that has 59 dB of very clean gain and I find this is excellent with such mics, and it need not necessarily be close miking although I do mic close to lessen the room sound when I'm recording at home. If I then add a tiny bit of plate reverb later I get excellent results. But then I only record classical music - strings and/or piano. I get brilliant results with grand piano where the mics are about one foot out and looking into the instrument with the lid up. (Or also a stereo pair a bit further out (say four feet) with another instrument playing in the piano curve).

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In my view the purist pursuit of the most neutral recordings is not entirely the correct one, particularly bearing in mind the use of ribbons early and then again later on in recording classical instruments, but your's is a pretty strident call for one method of recording.

Reg

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Google less; read more!

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Quote Ariosto:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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Recording with ribbons would require you to have a pre with a suitable amount of clean gain. Some might regard them (particularly ribbons within your budget) as having a "sound", (the correct technical term is their voicing however).

Reg

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Yes, absolutely right. Royer for instance recommend 60-70 dB of gain. I have a pre that has 59 dB of very clean gain and I find this is excellent with such mics, and it need not necessarily be close miking although I do mic close to lessen the room sound when I'm recording at home. If I then add a tiny bit of plate reverb later I get excellent results. But then I only record classical music - strings and/or piano. I get brilliant results with grand piano where the mics are about one foot out and looking into the instrument with the lid up. (Or also a stereo pair a bit further out (say four feet) with another instrument playing in the piano curve).

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In my view the purist pursuit of the most neutral recordings is not entirely the correct one, particularly bearing in mind the use of ribbons early and then again later on in recording classical instruments, but your's is a pretty strident call for one method of recording.

Reg

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I should have said that this method of using ribbons may well not suit most recording situations - but it is a method that works well on my own personal situations, but of course will not be suitable for everyone. I did sort of say that, as I use mics mostly in the same way (i.e. close miked if poorish room, not so close in a good accoustic. Bear in mind that I never record the instruments or the musical style that most people do, and use limited traditional set ups for classical music recordings only. I'm unlikely to record a singer too, unless an opera or leider singer, and then they would be at least 4 feet from the mic, and probably not singing directly at it with ribbons!

Quote BBK:

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Certainly, an ORTF recording I did of a brass band lacked ever so slightly in lowend for my tastes, and they were Neumann TLM170s.

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Interesting. I use them as my mics of choice over the bass end....if the room will stand it I use them in omni though.

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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For your budget I'd be thinking of a pair of Rode NT55s.

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Me too.

Quote Ariosto:

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No, but all things being equal, for recordings of strings and/or piano in classical music, ribbons will give a more musical outcome. (If you are capeable of hearing the difference, that is).

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Obviously this is your personal opinion....it isn't always necessarily the case

Quote BBK:

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I do intend going for a ribbon or two at some point though for my needs, the NT55 or NT2A would give me an upgrade against the se1a and se2200a mark1 respectively for studio work or more likely give me more options. Im branching out rather than only doing classical. The NT55 will give me a bigger boost in the studio as well as a respectable stereo classical recording options. I suppose i wont miss fig8 too much.

*ponders*

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I'd personally not go for the cheaper LDCs if I could avoid them......as Reg says, hire something 'nice' when you need it.

Fig-8s are useful little beasts if you intend on doing a lot of MS recordings, or if you finding yourself needing nulls a lot....other than that, the same thing applies.....they're a luxury to own, easy to hire when you need them.

Thank you all for your replies and discussion . A good read.

To mix things up a tad, I may be in a position to raise the budget to about 800 to 900.

I believe this brings the sE4400a stereo set into play. Im not determined to buy sE :-P But their range is what I know the best.

Does this drastically change things? I'm off to browse the catalogues now :-)

Thanks again.

I'd still go for NT55 over the Se4400, though I'm not familiar with the later.

A true pressure-operated omni like the NT45 capsule is a very worthwhile addition to a mic collection. I'd rate the NT55 similar to the Neumann KM183 (which I also own). Some people reckon the NT5 cardioid is similar to the Neuman KM184 (which I don't have and can't compare myself).

In fact you might even stretch the budget to a pair of NT55s and a pair of NT5s which would open the door to ORTF/XY plus outriggers, spaced pairs plus spots, ORTF/XY plus room mics.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Yes, I do agree with your comments on having true omnis as you said.

Although this would really stretch my max budget, two DPA4090s are just buyable. This coupled with my current se1a stereo pair could give me options though, I'd be more flexible with the NT55 and NT5 purchase.

DPA4090s have a self noise of 23dB-A - could be a problem for distant micing..............

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Good spot there.

The Oktava MK 012 sets are getting good things said about them.
Initially thinking the NT55 pair and if I get more money the Oktava set or NT5 pair + NT45 omni caps.

Thanks for all the assistance. I have some options which is great.

Ariosto - may I know what ribbons you would recommend for this application (and less than say £800)? I have been considering getting a ribbon mic or two as I already have decent LDC and SDC.

Many thanks

Len

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic

Quote Len:

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Ariosto - may I know what ribbons you would recommend for this application (and less than say £800)? I have been considering getting a ribbon mic or two as I already have decent LDC and SDC.

Many thanks

Len

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I auditioned various mics (not just ribbons) and in the end I chose the Royer R-101 ribbon mics which are very good. You need a good pre-amp. I got them from Funk-Junk in Hornsey N London. (They were £660 each).

Thanks Ariosto! I must confess I assumed the R-101s were targeted at guitar cabs but that is probably just how I have perceived the marketing. I will check them out. Thanks again.

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic