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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
Posts: 6
My band have full financial backing...now what?
      #1048078 - 14/05/13 10:12 AM
Hi, just wondering if anyone has any advice on what to do next.
My band have been playing together for years and have what we believe to be a strong and large collection of good songs. We've had a development deal in the past which fell through due to past members not wanting to fully commit but now we have people that believe we are good enough and are willing to invest as much as it takes financially to help us out.

Do we do it all ourselves or is it possible to find the right label and pay them to do the work?

Any advice would be great

Cheers!


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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048111 - 14/05/13 12:21 PM
Anyone? lol


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narcoman
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048113 - 14/05/13 12:30 PM
it' very difficult to do that; you need emotional buy in from labels & PR companies - I represent a number of commercial artists and attacking PR, for example; despite having the finances one does get rejections!

However there are things you could do if you have backing but do not make the mistake of thinking you can do it without some industry involvement (for example - you can't get the "right" gigs or radio play without some schmoozing or being on the lips of the right figures...) - I can give you a huge list of bands backed by millionaires who are making no headway.

Aside from that - I have PM'ed you some information


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BJG145



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: narcoman]
      #1048116 - 14/05/13 12:34 PM
Quote narcoman:

I can give you a huge list of bands backed by millionaires who are making no headway.



I wonder how Hamfatter are getting on...


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narcoman
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: BJG145]
      #1048117 - 14/05/13 12:35 PM
Quote BJG145:

Quote narcoman:

I can give you a huge list of bands backed by millionaires who are making no headway.



I wonder how Hamfatter are getting on...




exactly!!

You can't buy your way in! BUT you can use your assets (including finances) to maximise your chances.


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Scramble
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048149 - 14/05/13 02:36 PM
Quote ryanuk87:

willing to invest as much as it takes financially to help us out.




That's a bit vague. Are we talking tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions? Labels often spend at least a million trying to break a new artist, often with no success.


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: narcoman]
      #1048150 - 14/05/13 02:41 PM
Quote narcoman:

Quote BJG145:

Quote narcoman:

I can give you a huge list of bands backed by millionaires who are making no headway.



I wonder how Hamfatter are getting on...




exactly!!

You can't buy your way in! BUT you can use your assets (including finances) to maximise your chances.




I questioned the wisdom of Peter Jones when he bought into that, it seemed like a "I wanna get down with the kids" scenario, for all the right reasons, but who on earth is going to go and see/follow a band with a moniker like HamFatter - it was doomed from the start, and of course then there was the music, ultra-mundane and notable in its forgetfullness. Whatever happened to them I bet they haven't grown fat off the proceeds of their endeavours!


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OneWorld



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048152 - 14/05/13 02:52 PM
Quote ryanuk87:

Hi, just wondering if anyone has any advice on what to do next.
My band have been playing together for years and have what we believe to be a strong and large collection of good songs. We've had a development deal in the past which fell through due to past members not wanting to fully commit but now we have people that believe we are good enough and are willing to invest as much as it takes financially to help us out.

Do we do it all ourselves or is it possible to find the right label and pay them to do the work?

Any advice would be great

Cheers!




When you say 'financial backing' is that from someone with music industry knowledge, experience and of course the most important thing in the mix - contacts? The industry is littered with the corpses of those indulging in vanity projects. It seems music is like premiership football, you can't just buy your way to the top of the league, can you Mr Abramovich?

'Full' financial backing, that's going to cost, to quote Miles Davis when asked "How do you make a million out of Jazz?" answer "Start with 5 million"

But now at risk of having peed on your parade, best of luck, you might just buck the trend, and if yo have a nice booty, can cut a rug and are very photogenic, yo could be in with a shout - oh and learn to sing/play, that comes in handy sometimes when the Autotune conks out lol

Sorry am just making a point, am sure you are quite accomplished musicians and deserve a break.

I remember once having a conversation with a chap who went under the name of Mister Zero (Martin Hamnet) linked with the Hacienda etc, and he was talking about young wet behind the ears bands, and he said "Beware, everyone in the music industry is a f*cking shark"

What does that make you then?" I asked "A f*cking Killer Whale on steroids" he answered lol


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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048153 - 14/05/13 02:56 PM
Quote Scramble:


That's a bit vague. Are we talking tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions? Labels often spend at least a million trying to break a new artist, often with no success.




I read somewhere £650k is a good start but it could be more if needed. I know it all depends on the general public at the end of the day if they liked us or not etc.


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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1048155 - 14/05/13 03:02 PM
Quote OneWorld:


But now at risk of having peed on your parade, best of luck, you might just buck the trend, and if yo have a nice booty, can cut a rug and are very photogenic, yo could be in with a shout - oh and learn to sing/play, that comes in handy sometimes when the Autotune conks out lol




Haha yeah. I know what you're saying. I've been in bands myself since 2002 (aswel as 2 of the others) and I've always written music. This guy I know isn't in the industry but thinks we have good enough songs and knows that we previously had a development deal in 2010 which fell apart after a couple of past members couldn't hack the commitment.

This time however his son is joining as the bass player so he is willing to invest as much as it takes to help out.


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narcoman
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048156 - 14/05/13 03:05 PM
commitment. Yes that big issue!! Had a jazz singer recently working here. Got a year through development and she had a flipping hissy fit and quit. Right royal pain in the arse!!!hahaha


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Scramble
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048157 - 14/05/13 03:06 PM
>I read somewhere £650k is a good start but it could be more if needed

Do you mean that you may have access to more than £650k if required? Okay, but as has been said here, unless you also have people with industry experience and nous on your side that money will probably just end up going down the plughole. And I'm guessing -- based on the fact that you're asking for advice about this matter on what is essentially a home recording forum -- that you don't have anyone like that on your team. So I would... well, actually, who cares what I think about this matter? I'm not a 'player'. Listen to those who are, like Narcoman.

(Alternatively, I can join your team at the modest rate of £50/hour!)


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Scramble
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048159 - 14/05/13 03:09 PM
>This time however his son is joining as the bass player so he is willing to invest as much as it takes to help out.

Oh. That's basically code for 'It will be a disaster and end in tears'. Enjoy it while you can.

Edit: Better add a smiley in case you think I'm being too serious about this:

Edited by Scramble (14/05/13 03:10 PM)


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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048161 - 14/05/13 03:14 PM
Quote Scramble:

>
Oh. That's basically code for 'It will be a disaster and end in tears'. Enjoy it while you can.





Haha, it's not as bad as it sounded. I've been mates with his son for years and we run a car sales business together and have played in bands previous to this already.


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Scramble
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048162 - 14/05/13 03:21 PM
Here's another relevant question: does the backer want to get his money back and some more in a few years (ie. is it a serious investment)? Or does he at least want to see some money coming back to him every year for a dozen-odd years, but isn't fussed if this amount is only like a half or a third of what he shells out? Or is he happy for the money to be used to set up and eventually sustain a career for you all without any of it coming back to him (so it's like an advance-on-his-son's-inheritance sort of thing)?


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ryanuk87



Joined: 14/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048163 - 14/05/13 03:31 PM
He's not worried about getting anything back. I think he's worried about what his son is going to end up doing as he has a type of autism that makes it impossible to work in 'normal' places. He often rubs people up the wrong way as he says the most random things even though he is totally harmless. He is very good at playing computer games and musical instruments though. Has no fear of being on stage etc.


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narcoman
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048174 - 14/05/13 04:12 PM
yes - be careful with money. I've just watched a band spend $700k in two years and be no further along than when they started. Budgets are great - but spending even less in the right way is key. Keep the money, develop and look at spending at most a 20th of that to get moving. Do not go and find the biggest PR agent; as an unknown as it'll destroy you!! Been there!! hahaha ... a tricky game.


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Wease



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048187 - 14/05/13 05:31 PM
Sounds to me like somesort of deal with narcoman would be a good first move.


(Damn, that was my 1980 post....was going to rant about Thatcherism in music, the post punk 'New wave' or some such .....wot a waste! )


I hope the band does splendidly, i already quite like them/you......where can we listen?

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048197 - 14/05/13 06:25 PM
Well, first off, you need to buy a 458 Italia. You then need a seriously good Aremnian ethnic sound designer/producer who lives in the Uk and posts in these forums. This is so he can drive the Italia.

After that, I dunno, some gear, a few choice hookers and maybe a small rabbit.

Actually, what the others said.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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CS70



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1048549 - 16/05/13 06:06 PM
Quote:

but who on earth is going to go and see/follow a band with a moniker like HamFatter




Uh? I have no idea who these Hamsomething people are and never heard them, but if limp bizkit and smashing pumpkins made it, names shouldn't be a limit..

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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Exalted Wombat



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048578 - 16/05/13 09:17 PM
Quote ryanuk87:

He's not worried about getting anything back. I think he's worried about what his son is going to end up doing as he has a type of autism that makes it impossible to work in 'normal' places. He often rubs people up the wrong way as he says the most random things even though he is totally harmless. He is very good at playing computer games and musical instruments though. Has no fear of being on stage etc.




He's trying to buy this kid a career in a band?


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OneWorld



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: CS70]
      #1048581 - 16/05/13 09:38 PM
Quote CS70:

Quote:

but who on earth is going to go and see/follow a band with a moniker like HamFatter




Uh? I have no idea who these Hamsomething people are and never heard them, but if limp bizkit and smashing pumpkins made it, names shouldn't be a limit..




Never heard of them? well that speaks volumes, but anyway, there are subtle differences making one name acceptable and the other naff. The word 'Ham' has too close an association to HamShank!


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OneWorld



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1048582 - 16/05/13 09:40 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Quote ryanuk87:

He's not worried about getting anything back. I think he's worried about what his son is going to end up doing as he has a type of autism that makes it impossible to work in 'normal' places. He often rubs people up the wrong way as he says the most random things even though he is totally harmless. He is very good at playing computer games and musical instruments though. Has no fear of being on stage etc.




He's trying to buy this kid a career in a band?




Well I suppose seeing as he's autistic, or whatever, they are (the rest of the band) performing some sort of care in the community role?


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Exalted Wombat



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1048601 - 16/05/13 11:11 PM
Quote OneWorld:

Quote Exalted Wombat:

Quote ryanuk87:

He's not worried about getting anything back. I think he's worried about what his son is going to end up doing as he has a type of autism that makes it impossible to work in 'normal' places. He often rubs people up the wrong way as he says the most random things even though he is totally harmless. He is very good at playing computer games and musical instruments though. Has no fear of being on stage etc.




He's trying to buy this kid a career in a band?




Well I suppose seeing as he's autistic, or whatever, they are (the rest of the band) performing some sort of care in the community role?




Which they want to make their long-term career? I hope this kid is ultra-talented! I guess it worked for Michael Jackson :-)


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Frisonic



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: CS70]
      #1048605 - 16/05/13 11:48 PM
Quote CS70:

Quote:

but who on earth is going to go and see/follow a band with a moniker like HamFatter




Uh? I have no idea who these Hamsomething people are and never heard them, but if limp bizkit and smashing pumpkins made it, names shouldn't be a limit..




Not to mention Vanilla Fudge...

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun


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Jack Ruston



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048639 - 17/05/13 08:24 AM
It's great that you have some investment. It might be a distraction that you seem to have 'unlimited' investment, but the fact is that this buys you some opportunities. The crux of the matter is your material, followed closely by your abilities. If you've got hits then you can use that investment to present them effectively to the market. If you haven't then you might find that it never really takes off. Doesn't mean that you won't make a good record to be proud of though.

I think the main battle you now have is that with all that cash, there's a tendency for investors and members alike to feel that the band should be able to achieve success. But as per the above, the stuff you really need is that which you can't buy.

I'd take things in order...imagine you didn't have investment. Get a producer involved and see what you've got material-wise. Record a handful of tracks and see what the result/reaction is. See if there are any issues with the material, line-up etc. See if you can attract a good manager. Obviously you have the budget to do these things 'properly'. If the result is positive you can progress to making a great record and buying onto a tour. Just get your ducks in a row at every stage so that if things start to move, the pieces are in place. People lose interest fast if you have to grind to a halt all of a sudden because there are gaps in the foundation.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


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Beat Poet



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048687 - 17/05/13 12:29 PM
Quote ryanuk87:

We've had a development deal in the past which fell through due to past members not wanting to fully commit but now we have people that believe we are good enough and are willing to invest as much as it takes financially to help us out.




I hope the members that didn't want to fully commit are indeed past!

--------------------
Do you need real drum tracks? http://www.drumtracksdirect.co.uk/


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CS70



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1048755 - 17/05/13 05:41 PM
Quote:

Never heard of them? well that speaks volumes




Does it? I looked 'em up and according to Wikipedia they seem to be a "Hamfatter are a pop rock band from Cambridge, UK, formed in 2002. The band are known primarily for their appearance on BBC2's Dragon's Den."

Never heard of Dragon's Den either - no BBC 2 in most of the world, I'm afraid. ;-)

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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BJG145



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048760 - 17/05/13 06:30 PM
Oh, you're missing out there...never mind Hamfatter, but Dragon's Den is awesome.


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Chaconne



Joined: 21/02/05
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048765 - 17/05/13 07:15 PM
This might be simplistic- but I would concentrate on the music.

You have financial security, so you need to make sure that what you have to sell is first rate. Most people dont have the luxury of financial security to sit back and concentrate on music - but its the most important thing. There are plenty of people who garner good followings with the internet alone - because they are brilliant. And many people who throw in thousands, and fail because basically nobody told them they were crap.

So, concentrate on your scene. Are you making the blogs? Anybody offered you gigs yet? Are they asking when your records are coming out? All this can be got for nothing...

Post a link here - I would not put a penny into any project that at least couldn't get a few "fantastic - when's it coming out?" responses from forums, facebook, soundcloud etc...

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CS70



Joined: 26/11/12
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: BJG145]
      #1048770 - 17/05/13 07:27 PM
Thanks for the tip mate, I'll check it out if I have a chance. :-)

Being quite ignorant of the music business, I wonder - given that you have good material and can play it and make a show, isn't it mainly a matter of initial exposure? Money can buy you that - the more the merrier - and kick start a self-sustaining cycle of commercial success, then hopefully fueled and maintained by more of the good stuff. Acts recent and past also suggest that the definition of "good material" is quite.. large, as well. Or?

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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Scramble
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: CS70]
      #1048771 - 17/05/13 07:28 PM
I'm afraid the music business is a lot more complicated than that...


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Chaconne



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048774 - 17/05/13 08:02 PM
"Acts recent and past also suggest that the definition of "good material" is quite.. large, as well."

It can seam that way, if you allow taste and genre to cloud your thinking. If you are into prog and jazz, maybe Katy Perry is a mystery. Similarly if Example is your thing, you might be none nonplussed by Adele.

But - surprising it always is at first - excellence in all genres is a must. People who have failed and had a hard time in the music biz always point to some act that is obviously tasteless but rich as an example of how its only 'a load of hype and who you know innit.' Its not that they dont get it, or its not their thing, its must be - in their bitter world - force fed fast food - because their fine dining never sold.

There are a few outliers - examples of bad music sold purely on hype, but actually not that much because you cant fool an audience - and if that audience wants good fizzy pepsi pop - they know what that is.

And, as said before - its never been easier to test the waters, and find out if there is a public for your work. Ignore the others and what they are doing, concentrate on your scene.

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CS70



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048776 - 17/05/13 08:42 PM
Quote Scramble:

I'm afraid the music business is a lot more complicated than that...




I am sure it is - as I said, I know jacks**t about it. How would it work then? Can you elaborate a little? Just in case - I am actually interested, not taking the piss.

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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CS70



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: Chaconne]
      #1048780 - 17/05/13 09:35 PM
Quote:

But - surprising it always is at first - excellence in all genres is a must. People who have failed and had a hard time in the music biz always point to some act that is obviously tasteless but rich as an example of how its only 'a load of hype and who you know innit.' Its not that they dont get it, or its not their thing, its must be - in their bitter world - force fed fast food - because their fine dining never sold.

There are a few outliers - examples of bad music sold purely on hype, but actually not that much because you cant fool an audience - and if that audience wants good fizzy pepsi pop - they know what that is.




"Excellence" as "very well tailored to a specific audience" then - do I get you right?

I guess a lot depends on one's definition of success as well - huge audience and high sales being one. Now segmenting audiences/customers and targeting products to them has a lot to do with marketing, of which I have a little experience. Marketing can't do miracles, but it can be very successful in positioning your average product to a segment of customers - won't work if the product is crap, and it's gonna be much easier if the product is outstanding... but most of the stuff we buy and use by the truckload is neither. TVs, laptops, phones, cars, food. Almost everything. Including perhaps music? That's a sense where "good" can be a pretty broad category.

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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blue manga



Joined: 16/09/06
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048815 - 18/05/13 07:29 AM
Quote ryanuk87:

Hi, just wondering if anyone has any advice on what to do next.
My band have been playing together for years and have what we believe to be a strong and large collection of good songs. We've had a development deal in the past which fell through due to past members not wanting to fully commit but now we have people that believe we are good enough and are willing to invest as much as it takes financially to help us out.

Do we do it all ourselves or is it possible to find the right label and pay them to do the work?

Any advice would be great

Cheers!





Get good management.


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The Red Bladder



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: ryanuk87]
      #1048819 - 18/05/13 08:32 AM
You cannot buy success. Indeed, it is an oxymoron - the moment you buy success, you have failed.

If you cannot get good management, it may just be that you are no good, or that you sound like every other band in your genre.


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narcoman
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #1048867 - 18/05/13 02:00 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

You cannot buy success. Indeed, it is an oxymoron - the moment you buy success, you have failed.




Yeah - pretty much.

Quote The Red Bladder:


If you cannot get good management, it may just be that you are no good, or that you sound like every other band in your genre.



There are myriad reasons for not being at your "final destination". They begin with "only just starting out" and travel through "don't know how to" and "haven't met the right one yet".


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The Red Bladder



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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: CS70]
      #1048872 - 18/05/13 02:37 PM
Quote CS70:

Quote Scramble:

I'm afraid the music business is a lot more complicated than that...




I am sure it is - as I said, I know jacks**t about it. How would it work then? Can you elaborate a little? Just in case - I am actually interested, not taking the piss.




Money (like old age) magnifies or amplifies who and what you are. If you put on a good show, adding a £10k lighting rig will give you an even better show. If you put on a crap show and can't relate to the audience, the lighting rig will only serve to show just how crap you are. All the same applies to promotion, marketing and many other things. Like any business, you should only invest in success - in order to amplify that success. Only a fool puts money into a business (or in this case, an act) that is losing money, or in the case of an act, not getting anywhere.

As for the OP, there are so many boxes you need to tick, before you worry about investing anything at all. I would worry about things like having the very best musicians possible and getting my mitts on the very best songs (with lots of hooks and fantastic arrangements) and of course having a front-man/woman who can sing and holds the audience in the palm of his/her hand and connects with sheer animal magnetism, before I would worry for one second about labels and agents.


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CS70



Joined: 26/11/12
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Re: My band have full financial backing...now what? new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #1048877 - 18/05/13 04:32 PM
Quote:

Money (like old age) magnifies or amplifies who and what you are. If you put on a good show, adding a £10k lighting rig will give you an even better show. If you put on a crap show and can't relate to the audience, the lighting rig will only serve to show just how crap you are. All the same applies to promotion, marketing and many other things.

Like any business, you should only invest in success - in order to amplify that success




Yes, that's how I see it as well. You have to have good material and be able to put up a good show. But that given, money can make a serious difference. Money can buy you exposure, and exposure boosts sales, like for any other product.

I just wondered what Scramble meant with "a lot more complicated than that". Have good stuff, be able to market it extensively enough to reach a critical mass. It's a relatively simple concept, I think.

--------------------
http://www.silver-spoon.org - It's just music
..and the FB page


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