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Xitheron



Joined: 27/06/13
Posts: 1
Spotify Royalty Payouts
      #1054592 - 28/06/13 12:11 AM

There have been a lot of songwriters showing their royalty statements lately on social media to illustrate how minuscule plays on Spotify pay compared to terrestrial radio for example. These are mainly shown from Bmi or ASCAP statements showing performance royalties.
I know that the PROs make licensing agreements with terrestrial radio and agree on rates that are paid to songwriters, and I'm curious if they've done the same with companies like Spotify/Pandora, etc. It stands to reason they have. If that's the case, it seems to me like songwriters should take issue with the PROs instead of Spotify for negotiating these tiny rates in the first place. I also know that the labels actually license the material too so I'm wondering how all this works. The labels also own 18% of Spotify. If the songwriters aren't making any money who is?

Wondering if there are any music biz gurus out there that can shed some light on this issue. Thanks!


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feline1
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Joined: 23/06/03
Posts: 4398
Loc: Brighton, UK
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: Xitheron]
      #1055045 - 01/07/13 06:40 PM
One of the main problems with PRO's is that their accounting to members seems incapable of dealing with 'micropayments'. They purport to be accepting 0.00000063p per stream or something, but there is no way to see this accruing on your account. And frankly I still continue to suspect that they just indulge in 'salami slicing' and round these all down, delete them off their accounts and keep them to buy crisps.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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KMuzzey



Joined: 09/02/06
Posts: 168
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: Xitheron]
      #1055046 - 01/07/13 06:43 PM
For an indie artist the performance royalty from ASCAP/BMI is the smaller payment, and the slightly-larger payment for Spotify, Pandora et al is from Soundexchange.

Hypebot is running a great thread about this right now:

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2013/06/as-war-of-words-heats-up-is-pandora -really-underpaying-artists-chart.html

and I put a response in there that outlines some of the confusing points when it comes to $$ from streaming services. Ultimately, if you're an indie guy, there just isn't much $$ there.

Kerry


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VictorM



Joined: 19/07/13
Posts: 4
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: Xitheron]
      #1059278 - 26/07/13 02:51 AM
As small as these streaming payouts look, streaming revenue makes up about 25% of the total digital market. Keep in mind to that the total digital revenue each year is larger than the total physical revenue. It adds up in a big way.


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feline1
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Joined: 23/06/03
Posts: 4398
Loc: Brighton, UK
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: VictorM]
      #1059517 - 27/07/13 08:28 PM
Quote VictorM:

As small as these streaming payouts look, streaming revenue makes up about 25% of the total digital market. Keep in mind to that the total digital revenue each year is larger than the total physical revenue. It adds up in a big way.




not if they salami slice it

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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KMuzzey



Joined: 09/02/06
Posts: 168
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: Xitheron]
      #1059518 - 27/07/13 08:40 PM
Unfortunately the category "streaming revenue" is deceiving when you're talking major labels, who have an ownership stake and a percentage of ad revenues where Spotify is concerned & their income in those 2 arenas are included in the "streaming revenue" or "revenues from Spotify" category. These same numbers, as well as shares of ad sales and ownership of the company itself, don't apply to indie artists, who actually have to pay an aggregator to get their music onto Spotify in the first place.

Kerry


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dubbmann
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Joined: 17/03/04
Posts: 1564
Loc: 3rd stone from the sun.
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: KMuzzey]
      #1059540 - 28/07/13 01:08 AM
Quote KMuzzey:

Unfortunately the category "streaming revenue" is deceiving when you're talking major labels, who have an ownership stake and a percentage of ad revenues where Spotify is concerned & their income in those 2 arenas are included in the "streaming revenue" or "revenues from Spotify" category. These same numbers, as well as shares of ad sales and ownership of the company itself, don't apply to indie artists, who actually have to pay an aggregator to get their music onto Spotify in the first place.

Kerry




Wow. I knew that the big summer tours (Lollapalooza etc) charged the lower tier acts (and demanded that they use their in-house swag merchandisers) to appear on the bill but I'm astounded that indie acts have to pay for the privilege of getting Spotify et al to play their stuff.

Sigh.

d

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http://www.thinkbluecounttwo.com/
http://www.phichibe.com


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shirkethic



Joined: 07/03/06
Posts: 269
Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: feline1]
      #1059548 - 28/07/13 05:37 AM
Quote feline1:

Quote VictorM:

As small as these streaming payouts look, streaming revenue makes up about 25% of the total digital market. Keep in mind to that the total digital revenue each year is larger than the total physical revenue. It adds up in a big way.




not if they salami slice it




No. Sorry to disappoint. No salami slicing going on. Terrible royalty rates from any streaming services of course.

But I get hundreds of pages from PRS with fractions of pennies reported on them.

Feline, you speak with great authority (apparently) but don't seem to know what the contents of the average royalty statement are?

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paul-thomson.com


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chris...
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Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4753
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: dubbmann]
      #1059560 - 28/07/13 09:50 AM
Quote dubbmann:

I'm astounded that indie acts have to pay for the privilege of getting Spotify et al to play their stuff.



The claim was actually - some acts pay "to get their music onto Spotify in the first place.".

That in itself would not seem to rule out getting streaming royalties, of sorts, once the music is on there.


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feline1
active member


Joined: 23/06/03
Posts: 4398
Loc: Brighton, UK
Re: Spotify Royalty Payouts new [Re: shirkethic]
      #1059569 - 28/07/13 10:53 AM
Quote shirkethic:



No. Sorry to disappoint. No salami slicing going on. Terrible royalty rates from any streaming services of course.

But I get hundreds of pages from PRS with fractions of pennies reported on them.

Feline, you speak with great authority (apparently) but don't seem to know what the contents of the average royalty statement are?




Really? Is this some other PRS, based in Devizes? The Proper Royalties Society? How perplexing.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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