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MarkOne



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BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science
      #1069441 - 09/10/13 08:37 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24441979

Take a look at the diagram...

Shame on the BBC - don't these people do fact checking with anyone?

Edited by MarkOne (09/10/13 08:45 AM)


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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069448 - 09/10/13 08:54 AM
I dropped the link to that in here: downloads thread

But your guess is as good as mine as to what that diagram is supposed to show.

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069449 - 09/10/13 08:56 AM
I suspect the Beeb have simply republished Universal's marketing puff. That diagram is invalid and misleading in so many ways... Why not write to mark.savage@bbc.co.uk and explain it to him! I'm sure he'd love it...

H

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The Elf
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069457 - 09/10/13 09:36 AM
To be fair, that's the diagram we have all known and loved for decades - and it seemed to make common sense. That's why that stepped diagram has been lovingly preserved and regurgitated and will likely continue to be so.

I was one of the culprits that saw it as undeniable truth! It took a lot of patience and some difficult re-education until the penny dropped for me. I doubt most 'normal' folks have the time and patience to see that kind of learning process through.

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Scramble
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: The Elf]
      #1069458 - 09/10/13 09:57 AM
>I suspect the Beeb have simply republished Universal's marketing puff.

The whole article is just a reproduction of PR puff.


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Thomas.



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: The Elf]
      #1069459 - 09/10/13 10:03 AM
Quote The Elf:

To be fair, that's the diagram we have all known and loved for decades - and it seemed to make common sense. That's why that stepped diagram has been lovingly preserved and regurgitated and will likely continue to be so.

I was one of the culprits that saw it as undeniable truth! It took a lot of patience and some difficult re-education until the penny dropped for me. I doubt most 'normal' folks have the time and patience to see that kind of learning process through.




I must admit to being in the "un-educated" camp over this (I thought the stepped thing was accurate). Can you point me in the direction of some good material that explains what is really happening?


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BJG145



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: The Elf]
      #1069463 - 09/10/13 10:18 AM
Quote The Elf:

To be fair, that's the diagram we have all known and loved for decades - I was one of the culprits that saw it as undeniable truth




Hah, yeah...I remember happily explaining it to people years ago. (Can't say I'd be able to explain the reality.)

Quote Thomas.:

Can you point me in the direction of some good material that explains what is really happening?




Hugh covers it here...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb08/articles/digitalaudio.htm


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molecular
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: The Elf]
      #1069465 - 09/10/13 10:29 AM
Quote The Elf:

To be fair, that's the diagram we have all known and loved for decades - and it seemed to make common sense. That's why that stepped diagram has been lovingly preserved and regurgitated and will likely continue to be so.

I was one of the culprits that saw it as undeniable truth! It took a lot of patience and some difficult re-education until the penny dropped for me. I doubt most 'normal' folks have the time and patience to see that kind of learning process through.




Not sure which way round you meant this but...

The fact that normal folks don't and won't care to try and understand what is wrong with the diagram is a very strong argument for not using it.

There are lots of occasions when partial truth is very useful for understanding the world (...light is a wave...Miley Cyrus is an idiot...) but for that to be valid, the partial truth needs to actually be useful, and the inaccuracies not problematic on a day to day basis. But that diagram seems to be exactly the opposite - the things that most normal people "learn" from looking at the diagram are the very things that aren't accurate OR useful but are rather misleading and unhelpful. On the other hand, those parts of it which might be thought of as accurate (maybe some kind of visualisation of the way digital audio data is actually stored on disk) is actually of little relevance to what comes out of the speakers as far as joe bloggs is concerned.

People love diagrams, though - somebody at SOS should come up with a new diagram, I think that's the only way out of this.

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Emmet
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069468 - 09/10/13 10:53 AM
"churnalism" rules OK


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feline1
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069484 - 09/10/13 12:05 PM
"Stevie Wonder's I Wish opened up, with a rounder, fuller bass and the intricate hi-hat work sounding crisp and bright."

- I recognise that prose style. Clearly this article was written by RUSS ANDREWS!

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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069485 - 09/10/13 12:15 PM
Everyone loves round bass. It is clearly the best kind.

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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069488 - 09/10/13 12:27 PM
I can only find US companies selling these, but no stock yet. More than half is orchestral. I am interested in hearing if there is any difference in the quality; they have Quincy Jones Bossa Nova album and the Getz/Gilberto album, both of which I have on vinyl, ad the QJ one on CD too.

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feline1
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069489 - 09/10/13 12:27 PM
if this means they re-released those elusive 5.1 DVD Audios that came out in the early noughties, at reasonable prices, then I'm all for it.
Most of them go for over £100 now, I can't be doing with that, much as I'd like to hear Yes's Fragile or Simple Minds New Gold Dream in surround sound...

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069502 - 09/10/13 01:07 PM
http://www.musicdirect.com/c-805-blu-ray-pure-audio-disc.aspx

This is the catalogue I found. It says 5.1 where available, so your wish list may get fulfilled, if those albums make the new releases.

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johnny h



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1069510 - 09/10/13 01:43 PM

This is what happens when you cut off the funding to the BBC journalism department. Not enough journalists with not enough time to check facts.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Thomas.]
      #1069514 - 09/10/13 01:54 PM
Quote Thomas.:

I must admit to being in the "un-educated" camp over this (I thought the stepped thing was accurate). Can you point me in the direction of some good material that explains what is really happening?




http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb08/articles/digitalaudio.htm

The error here is in thinking that all digital audio signals are stepped and that this is what makes them different from analogue signals. it's a very common misconception -- largely because of erroneous diagrams like this and inadequate explanations of what is actually going on. The ONLY practical thing that's different is that digital signals are more strictly constrained in terms of bandwidth and signal-noise ratio than most analogue systems.

The notion of steps comes from incomplete descriptions of parts of the digitising process.

The vertical edges of the steps that are assumed to be an inherent part of the discrete time sampling process don't exist in the real world. They are an artefact of the modulation process (actually they represent the sideband images) and the reconstruction filter in the D-A removes them as an inherent part of reconstructing the analogue output.

The horizontal step levels are assumed to be an inherent part of the quantisation process, but they don't exist either because we always use dither to randomise the quantisation levels in order to linearise the entire system.

Increasing the sample rate and/or wordlength does not improve the 'resolution' of the digital signal, despite the popular myth. Increasing the sample rate simply extends the system's audio bandwidth. Whether that is audible is highly questionable if the equipment has been designed and built properly. There are advantages to using high sample rates for some forms of signal processing, but that's a different story altogether. The sample rate has broadly the function as increasing the tape speed on an analogue tape machine. Increasing the wordlength simply improves the signal-to-noise ratio and is comparable to using wider tape (or fewer tracks across the tape) on an analogue tape machine.

H

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feline1
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1069516 - 09/10/13 01:59 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-805-blu-ray-pure-audio-disc.asp...

This is the catalogue I found. It says 5.1 where available, so your wish list may get fulfilled, if those albums make the new releases.




Yes, they've got Queen's "A Night At the Opera" there for starters
Wouldn't mind hearing their Stevie Wonder and Nick Drake too.
It says "Availability: TBA" though, what does that mean? "To be advised"? "Totally bloody arrrgh"?

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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: feline1]
      #1069518 - 09/10/13 02:08 PM
Quote feline1:

Quote Richie Royale:

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-805-blu-ray-pure-audio-disc.asp...

This is the catalogue I found. It says 5.1 where available, so your wish list may get fulfilled, if those albums make the new releases.




Yes, they've got Queen's "A Night At the Opera" there for starters
Wouldn't mind hearing their Stevie Wonder and Nick Drake too.
It says "Availability: TBA" though, what does that mean? "To be advised"? "Totally bloody arrrgh"?




Stevie, yes, I would like to see how it compares to my CD and vinyl copies.

TBA means, out sometime, but who knows when.

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feline1
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1069520 - 09/10/13 02:14 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

Quote feline1:

Quote Richie Royale:

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-805-blu-ray-pure-audio-disc.asp...

This is the catalogue I found. It says 5.1 where available, so your wish list may get fulfilled, if those albums make the new releases.




Yes, they've got Queen's "A Night At the Opera" there for starters
Wouldn't mind hearing their Stevie Wonder and Nick Drake too.
It says "Availability: TBA" though, what does that mean? "To be advised"? "Totally bloody arrrgh"?




Stevie, yes, I would like to see how it compares to my CD and vinyl copies.

TBA means, out sometime, but who knows when.




"MEH", in other words....

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MarkOne



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1069543 - 09/10/13 03:39 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

I suspect the Beeb have simply republished Universal's marketing puff. That diagram is invalid and misleading in so many ways... Why not write to mark.savage@bbc.co.uk and explain it to him! I'm sure he'd love it...

H




I tweeted Mark and to be fair to him I got an almost immediate response. I then linked him up with your article Hugh and a rather good youtube explanation of Digital Audio from XIPH.org and he has thanked me, and promised he will take a look/read. So at least next time he's primed with some better facts

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hollowsun



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: johnny h]
      #1069555 - 09/10/13 05:06 PM
Quote johnny h:

This is what happens when you cut off the funding to the BBC journalism department. Not enough journalists with not enough time to check facts.



Nothing to do with that - science reporting is and always has been shite ... by the Beeb, the papers, whatever, whoever. You can see it in the "Wine/beer is good for you/bad for you/good for you/bad for you/good for you" headlines ... "A mobile phone will scramble your brains/blow up a petrol station/not a problem at all/not to be used by pregnant women/the end of civilisation", and so on.

Read 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre (as just one example) to see how science and technology is so badly misrepresented in the meeeja by idiots just wanting to fill column inches, ideally with a sensational headline.

And just as we throw our arms up in horror here over a crudely drawn diagram of D-A conversion and read PR hype, imagine others in different professions ... doctors reading re-published pharma PR shite and bad facts/stats and horsearse, etc., whatever.

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Jim



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069556 - 09/10/13 05:16 PM
And in other news, a classical pianist produces an analogue LP. All done on restored classic mixer and tape deck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvE4391eW1Q


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johnny h



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1069557 - 09/10/13 05:18 PM
Quote hollowsun:

Quote johnny h:

This is what happens when you cut off the funding to the BBC journalism department. Not enough journalists with not enough time to check facts.



Nothing to do with that - science reporting is and always has been shite ... by the Beeb, the papers, whatever, whoever. You can see it in the "Wine/beer is good for you/bad for you/good for you/bad for you/good for you" headlines ... "A mobile phone will scramble your brains/blow up a petrol station/not a problem at all/not to be used by pregnant women/the end of civilisation", and so on.

Read 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre (as just one example) to see how science and technology is so badly misrepresented in the meeeja by idiots just wanting to fill column inches, ideally with a sensational headline.

And just as we throw our arms up in horror here over a crudely drawn diagram of D-A conversion and read PR hype, imagine others in different professions ... doctors reading re-published pharma PR shite and bad facts/stats and horsearse, etc., whatever.



Read 'Flat Earth News' by Nick Davies. Journalists are expected to churn out triple the amount of articles today than they were expected to in the 70s. That's why they are all so dependent on press releases to fill their newspapers and websites. Murdoch started it by cost cutting at the Times and its just got worse with falling revenues and the financial attack on the BBC.


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Scramble
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: johnny h]
      #1069560 - 09/10/13 05:27 PM
>the financial attack on the BBC.

You mean that wholly mythical financial attack on the BBC, who take more of our money than they ever have done (currently about 3.5 billion pounds a year)?


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The Elf
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: molecular]
      #1069561 - 09/10/13 05:28 PM
Quote molecular:

Quote The Elf:

To be fair, that's the diagram we have all known and loved for decades - and it seemed to make common sense. That's why that stepped diagram has been lovingly preserved and regurgitated and will likely continue to be so.

I was one of the culprits that saw it as undeniable truth! It took a lot of patience and some difficult re-education until the penny dropped for me. I doubt most 'normal' folks have the time and patience to see that kind of learning process through.



Not sure which way round you meant this...



What I'm saying is that when something makes comfortable, 'intuitive' common sense it takes a heck of a lot of re-education to convince people that it isn't true!

It took the infinite patience of some very reputable people and a lot of head-scratching before I finally 'got it' - and I'm one of the few that care enough to make the effort!

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molecular
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: The Elf]
      #1069574 - 09/10/13 06:35 PM
@ the elf,

yeah, I totally get that. Once I've been exposed to a diagram that seems to make sense, the same thing often happens to me.

On the back of this, I would agree that it's wrong to blame the average person for getting the wrong end of the stick and not giving enough of a sh!t to look any further into it.

But nonetheless the concept that that diagram has come to represent seems to be having an insidious effect on some aspects of the industry, and perhaps it would be better if people were just prevented from ever seeing it in the first place. Perhaps it should be kept in a dark cave somewhere, only accessible by the initiated.

I still think that the best way to do this would be to try and come up with another diagram that also makes a kind of intuitive sense, but isn't weirdly misleading, and make it look so goddam great that it becomes the "go to" graphic instead of that one..

Maybe just a bright red sign saying "Don't Panic" would do the trick!

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johnny h



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Scramble]
      #1069619 - 10/10/13 12:54 AM
Quote Scramble:

>the financial attack on the BBC.

You mean that wholly mythical financial attack on the BBC, who take more of our money than they ever have done (currently about 3.5 billion pounds a year)?



No, no and no. And this is just the last couple of years.


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hollowsun



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: johnny h]
      #1069621 - 10/10/13 05:01 AM
Well, perhaps you should pay more than the 38p a day for the TV licence if you want more researched BBC news coverage. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

The fact is that reportage is just sh!te and most, it not all, of it tinged with bias, agenda and ignorance.

"You want the truth - you couldn't handle the truth" - Jack Nicholson 'A Few Good Men' ... now the motto of most news agencies.

So, journalists have to do some proper research. Oh, f'k'n diddums - working for a living . . . how outrageous! Let's blame a rich person!

There are, IMO, far more serious things to sort out and get worked up over at Chez Beeb than some daft diagram of digital audio ... like the outrageous salaries of tosswit (ahem) 'managers' with all their idiot 'initiatives' and 'directives' and outsourcing to save costs (my arse) and their golden handshake redundancy handouts, nice pensions and so on, not some poxy diagram some numpty re-printed on their website.

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Scramble
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: johnny h]
      #1069643 - 10/10/13 09:20 AM
Quote johnny h:

Quote Scramble:

>the financial attack on the BBC.

You mean that wholly mythical financial attack on the BBC, who take more of our money than they ever have done (currently about 3.5 billion pounds a year)?



No, no and no. And this is just the last couple of years.




The BBC is rather good at creating the impression that it's under 'financial attack'. Hardly. The fact that it is cutting jobs in some areas does not indicate that it is. What that indicates is that the BBC is not getting the *increase* it was expecting. It used to be that the license fee was only increased every few years, but from 1988 the BBC started getting increases every year, and the BBC got used to having a vast amount of money hosed at it every year, which got bigger every year. That all stopped in 2010 when the license fee was frozen. But the BBC still gets a staggering £3.5 billion every year just from the license fee (they also get more from overseas sales, government subsidies of over 75, and a few other areas). That's an enormous amount of subsidy. If they can't hire decent journalists with that sort of money blame management, not the 'evil funding cuts'. There isn't another media organization in the world who gets that level of funding with very few strings attached.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1069644 - 10/10/13 09:23 AM
Quote hollowsun:

There are, IMO, far more serious things to sort out and get worked up over at Chez Beeb than some daft diagram of digital audio ... like the outrageous salaries of tosswit (ahem) 'managers' with all their idiot 'initiatives' and 'directives' and outsourcing to save costs (my arse) and their golden handshake redundancy handouts, nice pensions and so on, not some poxy diagram some numpty re-printed on their website.




All true... and the whole of that culture started in the John Birt DG era in the late 90s. His 'Producer choice' initiative cost the BBC shed loads of money and destroyed much of its integrity and organisational strength. He started the culture of bringing in 'Leaders from Industry' who expected private-sector-sized rewards, and yet these people generally knew nothing of what made the BBC special and Essentially destroyed it.

Birt is often credited as saving the BBC from a Government sell-off, but he 'saved it' simply by changing it in precisely the way the government wanted, throwing the baby out with the bath water. He created the process by which the BBC has ben taken to pieces and sold off, emasculating the organisation. And look at how he was rewarded...

As for the diagram... there isn't a sensible alternative diagram because the theoretical audio quality improvements offered by the Blu-ray 24/96 format simply don't exist in any practical sense for a domestic listener. And so they have to resort to obfuscation and misdirection

H

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Scramble]
      #1069651 - 10/10/13 09:54 AM
Quote Scramble:

The BBC is rather good at creating the impression that it's under 'financial attack'. Hardly.




Unfortunately, the whole thing is -- by government design -- extremely murky and complicated. They like to create the impression that all the licence fee money goes to the Beeb, but it doesn't, and even some of that which does is immediately withdrawn and used to fund other non-BBC things. It is wasteful and puts public money directly into the profit lines of the private sector.

For example, the licence fee pays in part for commercial industry training (including part funding of the National Film and Television School) while it's own in-house training facility has been destroyed.

The radio and TV transmission networks were taken off the beeb (and ITV) and handed to the private sector. But rather than expect these private profit-making companies to fund the re-equipping for DAB and DTT, licence fee money is syphoned off to pay for it.

The BBC TV network control facility, which was entirely in-house, was sold off to a private profit-making company, and the BBC now has to pay money to them every day to have their own programmes broadcast.

Exactly the same applies to BBC OBs. A huge amount of the 'traditional' BBC sport and events coverage was done by the very efficient and very experienced in-house OB section. But everything was sold to a private company and now the Beeb has to buy in the facilities it needs every week, which includes a paying a profit margin for those companies.

So significant chunks of the licence fee that once funded the BBC's internal programme making efforts is now passed directly to external profit-making companies. It's a reflection of the deliberate Government-led actions to dismantle the Beeb which have been going on for over ten years now, and also the popular accountant's scam of moving capital expenditure into revenue expenditure to make the books look better than they really are while haemorrhaging money into private sector profit margins.

H

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Scramble
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1069655 - 10/10/13 10:17 AM
Sure, but the BBC is still lavishly funded by media organization standards, and *especially* by news organization standards. Sub-standard journalism cannot be put down to the 'poor broke BBC needs more of your money'.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Scramble]
      #1069658 - 10/10/13 10:29 AM
Quote Scramble:

the BBC is still lavishly funded by media organization standards, and *especially* by news organization standards.




Yes, no argument from me on that; it has always been lavishly funded and that's why it lead the broadcasting world for decades in technology, technique, and set the programme making standards in every sense. It is still a great deal more than just a 'news organisation' too, although it is very clear that it will continue to be dismantled until it is nothing more than a state news outlet and external programme commissioner.

Quote:

Sub-standard journalism cannot be put down to the 'poor broke BBC needs more of your money'.




Of course not, and I'd never claim that it could or should. Sub-standard journalism is endemic across all outlets. We don't have news reporters any more, we only seem to have commentators. Whether that's because the audience is no longer capable of thinking for themselves I don't know...

My point is simply that the funding issues aren't anything like as black and white as so many like to make out, and it furthers the Government's campaign to imply that the BBC is over-funded and wasteful. Personally I don't think it is over funded given what it is tasked with providing, and although it is obviously wasteful in some areas that's almost exclusively because of Governmental interference in one way or another and largely now beyond the control of those charged with controlling it who are, almost exclusively, the wrong people for the job anyway! it is a mess, but it's a mess that was created to serve the Government's long-term agenda.

H

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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1069666 - 10/10/13 11:03 AM
>Of course not, and I'd never claim that it could or should.

My argument on that point wasn't with you, Hugh, because you weren't saying that.

>the Government's campaign to imply that the BBC is over-funded and wasteful.

I think it's pretty hard to deny that the BBC is over-funded and wasteful, but as this isn't the place to argue it I shall shut up.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Scramble]
      #1069678 - 10/10/13 12:00 PM
Quote Scramble:

I think it's pretty hard to deny that the BBC is over-funded and wasteful, but as this isn't the place to argue it I shall shut up.




I agree that it is wasteful in many ways, as I have said, I just don't think all the blame can be laid at the BBC's door -- much of it has been imposed upon them, and some is the result of the installation of a private sector mindset across the imported management of a public-sector company, essentially at the Government's behest years ago.

But I would happily argue the case that the BBC isn't over-funded in my view. Given that it costs me just 40p a day I think it is quite astonishing what they deliver, especially in comparison to 'the competition'. However, I think the long term prognosis is that the beeb will continue to be 'down-sized' and will eventually become a small PBS subscription channel with a government-funded news outlet. I give it a decade at most...

H

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Frisonic



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1069698 - 10/10/13 01:40 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Given that it costs me just 40p a day I think it is quite astonishing what they deliver, especially in comparison to 'the competition'. H




40p is cheap for what is on offer. The problem is that for the benefit of all those daily 40 pennies they are not supposed to be in competition with anybody (if they were it would be market distortion). They are supposed to be doing things that would not be tackled by the normal 'market' and they are supposed to do them so well that the normal market has to compete with them (the BBC) instead, generally raising standards. Which they used to do not so long ago. And if the BBC are not doing that then they have lost their way and probably will lose the bulk of their public funding and it will pretty much all be over. Chris Pattern walking away under the circumstances in which he did has been a monumental blow to their future.

However, to get back on topic I don't blame them for making this mistake. It was simple regurgitation of promotional material, after all, and they all do that. Of course back in the day they might have bothered to have a brief chat with a senior internal sound engineer before broadcasting, by way of editorial quality assessment, and got it right instead...

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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Frisonic]
      #1069706 - 10/10/13 02:37 PM
Quote Frisonic:

The problem is that for the benefit of all those daily 40 pennies they are not supposed to be in competition with anybody (if they were it would be market distortion).




Competition is inherent whenever there are alternatives -- the viewers have to choose what they want to watch, and the viewing figures drive the programme providers.

Quote:

They are supposed to be doing things that would not be tackled by the normal 'market' and they are supposed to do them so well that the normal market has to compete with them (the BBC) instead, generally raising standards. Which they used to do not so long ago.




I think they still endeavour do that in general, but perhaps it gets lost behind the 'me too' programming of dim-witted variations on b-list dancing/skating, and Talentless Britain kareoke shows. I still find myself watching science, nature and cutting-edge comedies on the Beeb far more than any other channel.

They are between a rock and a hard place, though. Making programmes that commercial broadcasts wont inherently means low viewing figures (because if it was popular the commercials would be doing it too!), and if the Beeb isn't being watched it fuels the argument that it should be scrapped as a waste of public money. So there has to be a proportion of popular programming as well as the more cultural or highbrow stuff. It's balance, and it's bound to wobble a bit.

H

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Tim Gillett



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1069713 - 10/10/13 02:55 PM
I'm an antipodean so what I know of the BBC is fairly limited, usually these days to their DVD issues. So obviously I'm not qualified to comment on the above wider ranging discussion directly.

But hopefully what I've just experienced tonight is not typical of their current audio mastering standards. I loved the interviews from Parky's Picks (DVD 2012). A delight to experience. But the average voice levels between each interview segment, and Parkinson's linking comments, were all over the place. Seems amazing, IMO, such errors could slip through quality control.
Just hoping it's an isolated case.

Tim


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Richie Royale



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1069717 - 10/10/13 03:12 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

I still find myself watching science, nature and cutting-edge comedies on the Beeb far more than any other channel.






BBC 4 is worth the licence fee alone. Not sure about the comedy output though.

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ken long



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Re: BBC News item on Blu Ray Pure Audio - more bad science new [Re: Tim Gillett]
      #1069720 - 10/10/13 03:19 PM
Quote Tim Gillett:


Just hoping it's an isolated case.





Unfortunately not. They had to recall some DVDs (or was it Blu-Rays?) a few months ago there was a thread on here (IIRC).

Many of these commercial DVDs/Blu-Rays' manufacturing are outsourced though so it's not completely fair to blame the Beeb.

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