Just wondering if anyone is aware of a company along the lines of http://www.songclearance.com/ which allows UK artists to buy licenses for cover songs - seems easy for those in the US...

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

MCPS?

I think I called MCPS a couple of years back when I wanted to do the same thing - the rates they were asking for were a bit ridiculous if I recall correctly, can't work out why in the US you can buy rights for $15+royalty but here it's so much more...

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

You have to pay for your licenses in advance. It's not $15 and then you pay from sales. You buy a license for expected sales and pay that license in advance. Same as the uk. MCPS run the same service.

5 songs with 200 downloads will cost you $161

In the uk through the MCPS it costs £71.49

Thanks Narcoman - I was quoting the 'Pay $15 + Royalty Fees' from http://www.songclearance.com/ though, they're the people recommended by CD Baby so I assume they're legit...

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

yup. Same deal. But you have to pay it in advance. Royalty FEES, not royalties. Use their calculator to see what you pay up front. $160 ish for 200 digital downloads.

And if you sell more than 200 you pay per sale? Or do you have to buy another 200 download license?

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

You have to keep track of your sales.... Either you'd buy another license and they'd suspend your sale until you do - OR they'll keep running it once you're a verified customer (my speculation there - cus in many years of dealing with HFA - you pay up front!).

The major difference is between the UK running a fee on "less than 25 minutes" and the USA doing it on a per song basis. But for 5 songs it'd roughly work out cheaper from the UK. 4 songs - cheaper in the USA.

Be warned also - it isn't quite as simple as it sounds any more. You have to make it clear they are COVER version - which means it has to also be the same or similar arrangement and NOT sound like the original singer - at least not too close. I've done quite a lot of jazz re-interpretations of songs for library over the years.... they need approval from the publisher (possibly not legal but when the publisher is a giant you have to choice but to play ball!!).

surely you only have to pay MCPS in advance for a PHYSICAL product (CD, vinyl, 8-track cartridge etc).

For downloads, you just release your recording, and when the royalties are collected, they go to the appropriate songwriter.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

no. YOu buy a license for a number of downloads. AWAL etc have done deals to allocate separately . But if you do it on your own - you buy the total license in advance.

Hmm, my arrangement is quite different. I really have to contact the publishers? I can imagine they're not going to be in a hurry to get back to me.

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

Quote narcoman:

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no. YOu buy a license for a number of downloads. AWAL etc have done deals to allocate separately . But if you do it on your own - you buy the total license in advance.

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Well I never have done for anything that I've released, ever. Does this mean I am GOING TO JAIL...?

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Actually, if I just upload as a stream only to soundcloud/youtube/Spotify am I liable?

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

Quote feline1:

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Quote narcoman:

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no. YOu buy a license for a number of downloads. AWAL etc have done deals to allocate separately . But if you do it on your own - you buy the total license in advance.

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Well I never have done for anything that I've released, ever. Does this mean I am GOING TO JAIL...?

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hahaha

Cover versions or published works?

Through AWAL etc?

Then you're fine.

Otherwise I think its 25 to life....

Quote OD23:

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Actually, if I just upload as a stream only to soundcloud/youtube/Spotify am I liable?

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Covers? Technically yes, although a none downloadable stream is even less money (from what I recall). You need an LOML from MCPS for this. I think it's about £100 per year for 45,000 streams or something.

Are they for sale or give way? One of the reason digital licenses are "in advance" is because you may choose to make them freebies....

*Everything* is a "cover version" because the legal entity who writes feline1's songs is not the same as the legal entity who owns the phonographic copyright in the recordings of his songs.

And also pretty much all of feline1's songs are co-written with other legal entities.

And a few are what you would call "a cover version".

Some of my stuff's still on AWAL, the rest is mostly via IODA. IODA do have a tickbox saying "Do you own the rights to release these tunes?" and I always tick "Yes! Yes I do!"
I did once get into a complicated conversation with my IODA agent about Harry Fox, along the lines of the legal entities I outlined above, but it sounded like a load of fuss and nonsense to me and so I continued to just tick "Yes".

I guess I'll be next after the RIAA have finished with Limewire.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

the RIAA can suck their own balls!!!

the enemy of music in my books.

Quote narcoman:

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the RIAA can suck their own balls!!!

the enemy of music in my books.

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I strongly suspect that if they could suck their own balls they would be far to busy to bother poor musicians ever again

If you stream and it's not available for download, it's maybe not 100% liable but it's really not something you should bother too much with, thousands of people are making cover version on Soundcloud or Youtube and they won't send the army to kill them all.

I used http://www.songclearance.com/ to clear a complete tribute album and it went really smooth, they did all the work to find the publisher and provide the mechanical licence. I've pressed a number of LPs at United Record Pressing in Nashville and I had to show them the proper licence because they are really strict with copyright. I also give credit to every publisher in the notes of the album as suggested in the licence.

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http://soundcloud.com/orgasmo-sonore Revisiting Obscure Film Music

Thanks for the advice... What would my legal position be if I'd recorded some covers and put them on youtube, but then wanted to release them as a paid-for download? Would I get done for not having paid for a license in the first place?

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www.facebook.com/owenduffmusic / http://soundcloud.com/owenduff / www.owenduff.co.uk / http://www.youtube.com/clothmotherrecords

Youtube is a strange place... I won't comment for the exact legallity of your question, but if you have a couple of personnal cover video there and release an album with the proper licensing and you've paid your stuff, I would not worry too much.

The correct legal advice ( and be warned citizens, you ARE liable for all advice given on a forum) is it would not be legal to do cover versions and place them on YouTube. Tat is the only equitable advice to give anyone.

what would YouTube's legal position if it hosted millions of copyright works without the permissions of the rights holders and didn't pay anyone f*CK all...? Speaking hypothetically...

Some interesting stuff about this here. Cover matters in the bottom.

http://brandsplusmusic.blogspot.ca/2010/08/music-copyright-and-youtube.htm l

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http://soundcloud.com/orgasmo-sonore Revisiting Obscure Film Music

lol I liked it when PRS "negotiated" a royalty deal with YouTube, and part of the deal was that PRS was forbidden to tell its own members what the royalty rate was

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

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what would YouTube's legal position if it hosted millions of copyright works without the permissions of the rights holders and didn't pay anyone f*CK all...? Speaking hypothetically...

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Absolutely right. But YouTube are in no danger of having there life trashed by a major corporation.....

Quote narcoman:

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But YouTube are in no danger of having there life trashed by a major corporation.....

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Though GEMA in Germany seem to be trying.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote narcoman:

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But YouTube are in no danger of having there life trashed by a major corporation.....

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I think that should be 'their life trashed' rather than 'there life trashed'.

Pedantry is overrated.

Quote narcoman:

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Pendantry is overrated.

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Depends on the situation Narco. For some gigs - Glastonbury circa 1976 or a Steve Hillage concert for example - some manner of leather pendant with 'peace stones' scattered along it's rustic length is not only advisable, it is jolly well expected!

Bring forth the henge!!!!

Quote narcoman:

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Bring forth the henge!!!!

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