Main Forums >> Mac Music
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees...
      #1030096 - 24/01/13 10:57 AM
...and me to the end of my rope.

I'm on a deadline for a trailer here and admittedly, I should have tested things better before using the setup for work. In Logic 32bit none of this was an issue.

The issue:

Running a fairly large orchestral session, all VIs of course, on an 8-core 2.26GHz. The session runs very nicely, all 16 threads about equally distributed (a small miracle, I know!).

Add a movie, which I need for syncing, and the whole thing doesn't play more than 2 seconds before giving me the "System overlad" message. Even if I unload the movie, things don't get back to normal until I quit Logic and reopen the session - a lengthy endeavor!

I'm on a deadline, if anyone has any tips as to dealing with video and Logic 64bit, I would be grateful. Right now I've got the video open in Quicktime outside logic and just press play simultaneously to check on things - far from ideal.

By the way, I've tried encoding the video in various different formats, including DV, which I thought would be easier on the CPU, but no change.

Cheers

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9140
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030102 - 24/01/13 11:15 AM
Does the video/Logic play ok when loaded into an empty project?
Does it play in Logic in 32-bit mode?

What are the details of the video (size, codec etc?) What happens if you re-encode to a low resolution file, like 400x300 pixels or fewer?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Will Bailey



Joined: 08/01/13
Posts: 15
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030103 - 24/01/13 11:16 AM
Hi there,

If you suspect 64-bit to be an issue you can force 32-bit mode from "get info" (right click the icon or cmd+i) see if that works.

if its a bug with the current version, and you've updated from 9.0.x recently, sometimes previous app versions of logic are left in the application folder. If you're lucky it might still be there.

Will


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: desmond]
      #1030107 - 24/01/13 11:58 AM
Thanks for chiming in guys.

Desmond: the movie file plays perfectly in an empty project. Actually, there is NO activity in the expanded CPU meter at all. The details of the video, currently, are 720 x 404 (given to me by the editor), H.264, FPS 29.97, 103mb. H.264 usually work really well for me.

I've converted that video to DV with no better result, as well as to MP4, which actually worked a bit better in the busy session, though obviously the quality was very low (not a problem). Trying an even lower resolution file next...

Will: can't go to 32bit as the session uses way too many instruments to manage the RAM load. Need Logic in 64.

What I find odd is that before I open the movie window in this busy project, Logic completely fills up my RAM meter (I'm using Memory Freer to keep an eye), releases a bunch of RAM, then opens the movie. I'm on 12Gb, with 2.91Gb free when the movie is not open.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9140
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030118 - 24/01/13 12:56 PM
Quote clisma:

Desmond: the movie file plays perfectly in an empty project. Actually, there is NO activity in the expanded CPU meter at all. The details of the video, currently, are 720 x 404 (given to me by the editor), H.264, FPS 29.97, 103mb. H.264 usually work really well for me.

I've converted that video to DV with no better result, as well as to MP4, which actually worked a bit better in the busy session, though obviously the quality was very low (not a problem). Trying an even lower resolution file next...




Ok cool, so we can probably rule out a crappy or difficult to decode codec causing performance issues, and it's probably small enough to not matter too much.

Quote clisma:

Will: can't go to 32bit as the session uses way too many instruments to manage the RAM load. Need Logic in 64.




Yeah we get this, it was another step to try to see whether it makes a difference (for example, whether the issue is a Quicktime 64-bit issue that isn't there in 32-bit). However, the evidence that it runs ok in an emptyish project suggests this is less likely to be the case.

Quote clisma:

What I find odd is that before I open the movie window in this busy project, Logic completely fills up my RAM meter (I'm using Memory Freer to keep an eye), releases a bunch of RAM, then opens the movie. I'm on 12Gb, with 2.91Gb free when the movie is not open.




What are the activity meters doing? Is Logic using more disk and/or CPU when the movie is loaded? Is the movie file coming off the same disk that the audio tracks/samples are coming from?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: desmond]
      #1030124 - 24/01/13 01:14 PM
The meters within Logic see massively more activity (the HD meter rises to about half to 3/4) with the movie open. Several Cpu threads go into the red, stay a short moment, then the dropout with message occurs. If I unload the movie at that point, the session still does not play back. Only closing and reopening the session/Logic does the trick.

The movie files are all on a separate HD. I've got one for the system, one for audio, two for samples and the final one, with loads of open space, for the movies.

I'm thinking of using something like Humatic Chaingang to open the movie outside of logic. I would then slave Chaingang to Logic MTC and trigger the sync that way. Another possibility is to use VE Pro 5 and load all my VIs in there, leaving logic to deal with midi, notation and the movie.

I'd much rather stay in logic though, don't want things to get complicated and unnecessarily messy.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9140
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030146 - 24/01/13 02:23 PM
Does it do the same thing if you choose a different movie file - preferably one that has worked before?

Assuming it does the same thing, then it's most likely project specific, either in terms of corruption, or memory limits? I'm assuming you've tried all the usual performance improvement things like increasing buffer sizes and seeing whether that improves the situation.

Yeah, I was going to suggest, at least for now to get the deadline out of the way, of moving the movie file to another computer system synced to Logic, which would at least keep you working until you get this thing out of the way and have some time to experiment a little more.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: desmond]
      #1030154 - 24/01/13 02:43 PM
Quote desmond:

Does it do the same thing if you choose a different movie file - preferably one that has worked before?

Assuming it does the same thing, then it's most likely project specific, either in terms of corruption, or memory limits? I'm assuming you've tried all the usual performance improvement things like increasing buffer sizes and seeing whether that improves the situation.

Yeah, I was going to suggest, at least for now to get the deadline out of the way, of moving the movie file to another computer system synced to Logic, which would at least keep you working until you get this thing out of the way and have some time to experiment a little more.




I've tried several different movie files and it all behaves the same. Yes to memory limits - I'm teethering fairly close to the max and will increase the RAM next week, but would that be a valid reason for the CPU meters to go crazy?

As you say, gotta focus on the music now, so whatever works, but as soon as I'm done with this trailer I've got to fix this issue. It's literally a show stopper.

Thanks for the help!

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9140
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030159 - 24/01/13 02:58 PM
Quote clisma:

I've tried several different movie files and it all behaves the same. Yes to memory limits - I'm teethering fairly close to the max and will increase the RAM next week, but would that be a valid reason for the CPU meters to go crazy?




When you start hitting memory limits, it can affect lots of things, as the system has to work to understand what you need, swap ram contents in and out of the disk and this stuff means an additional drain on resources that are already working pretty hard to keep everything running in realtime - so the exact effects of low memory can be quite variable.

It will certainly be a good idea to get more RAM and retry the same project to see whether the performance improves...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
turbodave



Joined: 25/04/08
Posts: 2393
Loc: derbyshire uk
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030176 - 24/01/13 04:22 PM
Hi, Can you shrink the movie file size , purely for work ? ..or will that not make any difference? Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: turbodave]
      #1030234 - 24/01/13 07:59 PM
Quote turbodave:

Hi, Can you shrink the movie file size , purely for work ? ..or will that not make any difference? Dave




Hi Dave, I've tried that as well. The size, codec and frame rate oddly enough, seem not to matter. It just stutters.

I may try importing the midi tracks into my orchestral template after I finish the gig, and then loading the movie there, just to rule out project corruption. I feel like I shouldn't be running into this wall on this machine - feels more like a Logic issue. Hope more RAM will help.

Thanks for the input.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
electrotimba



Joined: 03/09/04
Posts: 1010
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: clisma]
      #1030261 - 24/01/13 09:19 PM
Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.

Edited by electrotimba (24/01/13 09:26 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
TBTS



Joined: 08/01/09
Posts: 550
Loc: London
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: electrotimba]
      #1030266 - 24/01/13 09:49 PM
Quote electrotimba:

Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.




pretty much exactly what i was about to post, i've always used photo jpeg for video in logic, it's extremely efficient.

--------------------
Apple Certified Technician + songwriter ** Shiny New Website with new music, videos etc... **
http://www.turnbacktospring.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 207
Re: Opening a movie file brings Logic 9.1.8 to its knees... new [Re: TBTS]
      #1030283 - 24/01/13 11:24 PM
Quote TBTS:

Quote electrotimba:

Open the file in QT and export as QT, Photo Jpg @ 80% quality. It is the most commonly used by VJs, very light on CPU etc.
I remember playing 720x404 file in Ableton Live (which just using default QT player) made 2-3% CPU difference (4-5 years back = 3GB RAM and 2.0 G Core2duo)
note: DV and H.264 are not "light" at all.




pretty much exactly what i was about to post, i've always used photo jpeg for video in logic, it's extremely efficient.




Thanks guys. Will try that tomorrow morning. Coincidentally, the size of the video is precisely 720 x 404. Will report back.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
0 registered and 22 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 3519

October 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for October 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media