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RoastBiff in France
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Joined: 22/05/03
Posts: 755
Loc: Dordogne France.
Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track.
      #1068085 - 29/09/13 08:51 AM
Can anybody tell me how I can find the tempo of a set of audio tracks that I have in one of the projects that will not open in Logic Pro 9.1.8 (see my earlier thread)
I have been through the manual, and on line help forum, but so far I have found nothing that will work to solve this problem for me. I need to get the tempo bang on correct, so I can add some more MIDI instruments to the songs.


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4488
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068089 - 29/09/13 09:27 AM
Quote RoastBiff in France:

I have been through the manual, and on line help forum, but so far I have found nothing that will work to solve this problem for me.



Plain old music theory. Time a section with a stop watch, whilst counting the beats.

Say the piece is in 4/4 - try timing 16 bars worth (64 beats). Then divide 64 by the number of seconds (to get beats per second) then multiply by 60 to get beats per minute.

The longer the section you time, the more accurate the answer will be. If you end up out by 1, you'll probably notice when the new track drifts out of sync with the metronome after a while, and will be easily able to correct. (Assuming the old track used an integer tempo bpm).

Have fun.


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 2955
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068097 - 29/09/13 11:17 AM
I usually end up doing this kind of thing by trial and error which is possible because most folks record to a limited selection of tempos/tempi/tempotato. In fact, I'd be inclined to start at 120 and listen out. Should be done in less than 30 secs.

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porthoss78



Joined: 20/12/07
Posts: 199
Loc: Bristol
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068113 - 29/09/13 02:26 PM
Hi,

I assume you have the bounced audio files that you can import into a new Logic session, if I'm wrong please ignore the rest of my post...

This is what has worked for me in the past:

If you have a drum track you could copy and paste a rough 4 bar section of it onto a new track. Double click the region and go into the sample editor and click the play/loop button (in the sample editor). Adjust the start and end points of the region so the 4 bar section plays and loops correctly.

When you come out of the sample editor you should be left with a perfect 4 bar section of audio (currently not in time with your project). Go to the time line at the top of the arrange page and select a 4 bar cycle region (the green bar at the top). Click the newly created/trimmed section of audio you created, to highlight it, and then press CMD + T then choose Globally.

This should then tell Logic to adjust the project tempo so that the selected audio file fits exactly into your highlighted 4 bar cycle selection thus changing the project to roughly the correct tempo.

I hope that kind of made sense, obviously you may need to adjust the tempo slightly as the chances are the loop you created wasn't quite perfect.

Hope that helps
J


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damoore



Joined: 05/07/09
Posts: 529
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: porthoss78]
      #1068118 - 29/09/13 02:59 PM
One way is to tap out the tempo and record the taps into a MIDI file (i.e. tap a key on a MIDI controller).

Start with an approximate tempo for your recording. Your beats will gradually drift. For example suppose you start with crotchet=120 and that you gain a beat every 8 bars. Then you know the original is closer to 120/32*33=123.75.


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1015
Loc: Dublin
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: damoore]
      #1068326 - 01/10/13 02:26 AM
Assuming you have your track in Logic (or similar) and it was recorded to a click...

1. While ignoring the arrange grid (which is uselss at this stage), use your ears, eyes and scissors tool to isolate 4 bars near the beginning of the song. Ensure it really is exactly 4 bars i.e. it starts bang on Bar 1 and ends just before the onset of Bar 5.

2. Then, using the grid, drag the region to the start of any bar in your DAW - say 9 1 1 1, and create a 4-bar cycle - in this case from 9 1 1 1 to 13 1 1 1.

4. Adjust the DAW's tempo until the region cycles perfectly in time with the DAW's metronome with no flamming.

5. Extend the region the full length of the song and check all's still in sync at the song end.


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RoastBiff in France
member


Joined: 22/05/03
Posts: 755
Loc: Dordogne France.
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #1068345 - 01/10/13 07:59 AM
Thanks Evie, and thank you to all the other suggestions that were put forward.
I did get the track's Tempo, and it sounds correct when I now add MIDI tracks to it. the only thing that baffles me still, is that one of the songs registers at a Tempo of 137.4655 BPM ?


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Fen_Tigger



Joined: 23/03/12
Posts: 30
Loc: Below Sea Level
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068396 - 01/10/13 12:17 PM
I use an iPhone app called BPMCounter and tap along in time, it does the hard work for you.

--------------------
"Playing the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order"


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recordplay



Joined: 13/09/05
Posts: 297
Loc: Devon, UK
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: porthoss78]
      #1068465 - 01/10/13 06:20 PM
Quote porthoss78:



If you have a drum track you could copy and paste a rough 4 bar section of it onto a new track. Double click the region and go into the sample editor and click the play/loop button (in the sample editor). Adjust the start and end points of the region so the 4 bar section plays and loops correctly.

When you come out of the sample editor you should be left with a perfect 4 bar section of audio (currently not in time with your project). Go to the time line at the top of the arrange page and select a 4 bar cycle region (the green bar at the top). Click the newly created/trimmed section of audio you created, to highlight it, and then press CMD + T then choose Globally.

This should then tell Logic to adjust the project tempo so that the selected audio file fits exactly into your highlighted 4 bar cycle selection thus changing the project to roughly the correct tempo.






You could also use the stretch file to locators function to match to the existing project tempo. Once you have the project tempo you could then use varispeed to change the tempo of the file without affecting the pitch of the record.

You could use a bpm counter (just tap bpm counter into google and head for the top link from all8.com)

You could use flex markers to align the tempo to any logic project tempo

Use beat detection as instructed above though to match the project tempo to the audio file. Logic gives you 5 guesses and is usually pretty accurate on the first guess.

Or use ableton live which has some really excellent ways of warping audio to fit multiple tempos or other parts.

Use a CDJ and literally mix the record to a click track/metronome

A few ideas for you to try.....

--------------------
Pinkpenny Records | Twitter


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1015
Loc: Dublin
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068484 - 01/10/13 11:29 PM
Quote RoastBiff in France:

Thanks Evie, and thank you to all the other suggestions that were put forward.
I did get the track's Tempo, and it sounds correct when I now add MIDI tracks to it. the only thing that baffles me still, is that one of the songs registers at a Tempo of 137.4655 BPM ?




137.4655 BPM ? Two explanations...

1. The track was recorded on a different system, one whose internal clock's idea of 137 or 138 BPM is slightly different to that of your current system. In which case, leave it at 137.4655.

2. The track was recorded on your system, and the tempo is indeed either 137 or 138 (assuming you never use fractions of a BPM when starting a project).

In which case, try either 137 or 138, and nudge the audio backwards or forwards by a few ticks until it stops flamming against the metronome. More than likely, one of those values (137 or 138) will be correct.

The wierd 137.4655 tempo value derives from the inexact science involved when trimming the four bars of audio by eye and ear.


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 2955
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: RoastBiff in France]
      #1068486 - 02/10/13 12:04 AM
More explanations:

'Tap tempo' decided the initial tempo ('you sing a bit and I'll find out what tempo you're singing at" - I've done it myself).

Frame rate issues between different recording systems

Alcohol.

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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 9165
Re: Finding the Tempo of an Audio Track. new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #1068488 - 02/10/13 01:16 AM
chop a section with transients, drums for preference, that's nice a stable/tight and use tempo operations extract tempo information from audio/file

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


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