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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
I give up
      #1070013 - 12/10/13 02:23 PM
After spending nearly an hour this morning trying to download a YouTube video for a presentation I am helping with, I gave up trying to do it with my new-ish OSX Mountain Lion MBP and went back to my old Windows 7 PC, where it took about 3 minutes to find out what I needed to do and just do it.

I gather there used to be a feature available on the Apple OS to do this sort of thing straight from the browser, but it was removed. Unfortunately the advice I found on the internet was out of date, so I spend a good long while wrestling with Safari trying to get it to work, thinking I might just be missing something.

Unfortunately since buying the MacBook six months ago I have found almost every single thing I wanted to do with it was roughly 10 times harder, far less intuitive, and more time-consuming than it is on a PC. For instance, viewing photos, installing software, unplugging external hard-drives.

Perhaps I have been conditioned by too many years using the Redmond OS, I don't know.

Anyhoo, if it wasn't for the fact I need OSX to run Logic, I would be replacing the OS completely with Windows 7. And I only want to run Logic because it can import GarageBand songs from my iPad (which I still think is the dog's danglies). If Reaper could import GarageBand songs I would just replace the whole OS on the MacBook. I would then be able to run my older NI plugins (B4, Pro-5) on the MacBook, too.

This whole business about Macs "just working" and being more intuitive is complete nonsense.

p.s. sorry for ranting, I needed to get this off my chest!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
Posts: 2316
Loc: . ...
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070016 - 12/10/13 02:35 PM
And then there is the cost.

I just bought a PC with latest i7 CPU, 3TB disk, 250 SSD, 32 GB RAM, 2GB graphics card, Windows7-Pro and all the usual USB-3 out of the ying-yang connections etc for £1,000 inc VAT. I also bought a laptop with Windows 8 and 8GB RAM for £280 inc. VAT.


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070017 - 12/10/13 02:47 PM
I came back to remove my post, as it might have been better posted on the PC forum as a warning, rather than on here, because I might be accused of trolling.

But alas, too late, as RB has replied already!

In defence of the MBP, it wasn't much more expensive than the equivalent laptop (but then I did buy used!), and it is a really nice piece of hardware. But as for the OS, bleugh!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070019 - 12/10/13 02:52 PM
Is there some reason you're using Safari? I never have. Almost the first thing I do with a new Mac is install Firefox.

CC

--------------------
Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070029 - 12/10/13 03:47 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

After spending nearly an hour this morning trying to download a YouTube video for a presentation I am helping with, I gave up trying to do it with my new-ish OSX Mountain Lion MBP and went back to my old Windows 7 PC, where it took about 3 minutes to find out what I needed to do and just do it.




Wel, sometimes with a new system you equate it as being "harder" when it isn't - you simply knew how to do it before, and don't know how to do it know, requiring an investment of effort to do it the new way. I find pretty much everything harder, slower and more annoying on any flavour Windows than I do with the Mac, but there was a time the Mac was new to me too, and I had to figure out how to do things differently.

For instance, I have a browser plugin called "click to flash" which turns off flash by default. It also loads flash videos into a quicktime player by default, and all I have to do to download a youtube video is go to the video page, right click on the video as select "Download". Simples.

Quote Richard Graham:

Unfortunately since buying the MacBook six months ago I have found almost every single thing I wanted to do with it was roughly 10 times harder, far less intuitive, and more time-consuming than it is on a PC. For instance, viewing photos, installing software, unplugging external hard-drives.




The other thing related to this I will mention, other than what I said above: often, new Mac users come at the Mac with a long established Windows mindset, thus they try things the Windows way and get confused because it doesn't work - when actually, the Mac way is generally easier and so obvious and would never be that straightforward on Windows, so we don't try it.

It just takes a few months working with the Mac to get over Windows habits, and when people do, few of them regret it, in my experience.

Quote Richard Graham:

Perhaps I have been conditioned by too many years using the Redmond OS, I don't know.




Exactly. This isn't a Mac vs PC thing - sometimes people don't want to spend the extra effort in learning new stuff, or how to do things differently - even if it's better/quicker. For many people, doing things the way they know how (even if it's slower, more tedious etc) is good enough.

Quote Richard Graham:

This whole business about Macs "just working" and being more intuitive is complete nonsense.




No it's not, it just doesn't mean what Mac bashers have taken it to mean - that Macs are somehow infallible and never crash, which is simply not true - they are computers. The "just works" thing means something else, in reality. It's just trotted out regularly as an easy target for people frustrated with Macs.

In any case, if PC's work ok for you, and you have no real reason to switch to Mac or want to invest in learning new things, then perhaps the best thing is to stick with what you know.

They both do broadly the same things in broadly the same ways, they just differ in the details. Those details are vitally important for some, and less important for others...


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Will_m



Joined: 02/04/09
Posts: 572
Loc: Manchester
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070034 - 12/10/13 04:29 PM
If you're not too attached to Logic and you like the idea of having a tablet version of your DAW alongside the full version you could try Cubase. It runs on Win/OSX and has a tablet version called Cubasis, which can transfer its projects to Cubase.

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http://www.williammorrismusic.com


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alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1668
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: I give up new [Re: Will_m]
      #1070038 - 12/10/13 04:50 PM
Quote Will_m:

If you're not too attached to Logic and you like the idea of having a tablet version of your DAW alongside the full version you could try Cubase. It runs on Win/OSX and has a tablet version called Cubasis, which can transfer its projects to Cubase.




I looked a bit at Cubasis, it's good for what it does, but I learned it is quite a cut down version. For example, automation is minimally existant (if at all?).

Importantly, the project transfer is unidirectional - can't import a Cubase project into Cubasis. Of course a mixdown .wav can be, for overdubs.

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1


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Thomas.



Joined: 29/04/12
Posts: 162
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070050 - 12/10/13 06:28 PM
It's weird, I moved to a Mac precisely because Windows machines were exhibiting exactly the problems you are attributing to your Mac - and I have been a Windows user since 3.0, even beta testing 95. I found that tasks that were taking forever on Windows (updating codecs, editing photos, video, and audio) or which cost a small fortune, were no longer getting in the way of my workflow. Each to his own, I suppose


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070083 - 12/10/13 09:26 PM
Thanks all for your calm and measured input. I have calmed down a bit now. Partly because I've had a drink.

To reply to those people who said (in so many words) "stick with PC then", it's good advice and I'd be happy to, but sadly GarageBand on the iPad is too brilliant and unique a musical sketchpad to give up, and the only way to work on GarageBand tunes after the first stages of getting them sketched out, is using Logic.

I've not tried Cubasis (or Cubase, recently), but the combination is an expensive solution and I've not looked back since I ditched Cubase (albeit a free "beginners" version which I thought was pretty awful) for Reaper, five or so years ago. Reaper is a brilliant DAW, and I would not have given Logic a second glance had it not been for GB on the iPad.

As for OSX being more intuitive, we will have to agree to disagree. After 6 months I am sort of getting used to it, but it's hardly a pleasure to use. I am going to continue to stick with it (having ponied up a grand for the MBP), hoping that the light finally dawns: but really, what is intuitive about having to drag an external hard drive to the Trash (of all places!) in order to eject it? In Windows you just disconnect it. Likewise, why do I have to drag an icon from the installer to my Applications folder after I install some software - can't OSX just take it as read that having installed the software, I'd like to see that software listed in my Applications? And why should I need to select all the photos in a folder before I can start previewing them? (the answer I've seen to this one is along the line "Finder isn't a photo-viewer and you need to buy another piece of software to view your photos on a Mac" - great, thanks!). And don't get me started on iTunes (which is also a POS on the PC, to be fair).

Lest you all think I am just a troll or Apple-hater, some plus points now: iCloud integration with iPad, lovely hardware, Time Machine, very very quiet, nice multi-touch touchpad, general feeling of well-ordered quality.

I guess I've heard the story so many times - the one that goes "my Windows PC was always a right hassle and I could never just get on and do my music on it, then one day I bought a Mac and everything just clicked", that I thought I'd chime in with my 2p worth.

I still really hope I can learn to love my Mac. I will persevere. At the moment I feel like I dumped a faithful girlfriend who would cheerfully do pretty much anything for me, for a classy-looking high-maintenance ice-maiden.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5483
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: I give up new [Re: desmond]
      #1070085 - 12/10/13 09:40 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

Unfortunately since buying the MacBook six months ago I have found almost every single thing I wanted to do with it was roughly 10 times harder, far less intuitive, and more time-consuming



I could completely reverse that (for the reasons Desmond pointed out)...

When I have to use (*) Windows (which is only occasional now but used to be more regular), I don't know what the hell is going on ... but then I have been using Macs almost exclusively since 1988 - I just got on with them better than I did with Windows. I couldn't give a rat's arse about the hardware (although that can be advantage) - it's the Mac OS I favour ...

BECAUSE IT'S WHAT I'M USED TO.

(*) I say "use" ... I actually mean "suffer and struggle with"

My daughter's only ever used Macs at home (obviously) and had terrible trouble adapting to Windows at school. But she's young and did adapt (the other 'benefit' being that as one of the few kids who are familiar with MacOS, she's always put upon by the IT department to deal with the (growing number of) Macs in her school because the staff are clueless ... the IT teachers also have her teaching in classes ... unpaid, obviously!). But she's multi-lingual in terms of OSs.

But I have friends who change their cars ...

"I've just replaced the Peugot with a Ford and can't on with it - everything's in the wrong place ... I try to indicate but clean the rear windscreen ... and I am buggered if I can figure out how to move my seat back a bit. I wish I'd never bought this heap of junk"

No - not a heap of junk ... you have to learn how to use it and get used to it.

As for Macs 'just working', well they pretty much do (in my long experience) but of course, they're machines and things go tits up sometimes - Windows PCs do as well - jeeez ... my mother's digital TV freezes - the noughts and ones have an occasional tendency to get a bit mixed up and go squinky!

FWIW, most of the programming types I work with now have Macs because they can run OSX, Windows of various flavours, Ubuntu, whatever, on one box. One chap (one of my oldest friends) has just a Mac Mini, four monitors and runs all sorts of OSs appropriate to the job ... and he's coding for products many of us here have in our studios as well as for high-end post-production stuff that is used on many of the films and DVDs we watch.

And as for cost...

Bought a top of the range Mac Pro Tower for £900 (the 'work' 'puter), a Mac Mini (a while back - now the 'home' 'puter) for £400 and more recently a 15" MacBook Pro (for my daughter's schoolwork and stuff) for a tad over £500. All stuffed to the gills with apps and stuff (yes - I had the licensing stuff so that I could transfer ownership). Granted, each one has been a year or two old and refurbs but they all 'just worked' straight out of the box and have not given me or my daughter any trouble whatsoever. The Mac Pro Tower (2 x 3GHz dual core) goes like sh!t off a shovel, the Mac Mini flies and the 'new' MacBook Pro is a delight and my daughter's over the moon with it (I am slightly envious, truth be told, and was reluctant to hand it over! )

No ... not a Mac fanboi any more than I might be a Ford, Mazda MX5, retro electronica, Genesis or tweed fanboi - I just like/prefer them, s'all. I can't get on with modern synths/ROMplers too well but can fly around an analogue modular or Kontakt...

BECAUSE THEY'RE WHAT I'M USED TO.

I think you just have to get used to it, acclimatise yourself to it and learn the little tricks that make things easier. I don't suppose there are many who can sit down in front of a new/different OS and just launch in there without hiccups.

Or don't use the MB Pro ... sell it, perhaps, and buy a Windows lappie if that's what you're used to or prefer.

Or persevere with the MB Pro until you're more comfortable with it.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070087 - 12/10/13 09:50 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

what is intuitive about having to drag an external hard drive to the Trash in order to eject it?
In Windows you just disconnect it.




Well, that's a long standing Mac thing since the original Mac, which was always of dubious usability in HCI terms. It's not intuitive, and the metaphor is downright broken but it's a long-standing Mac thing. It's been discussed to death, most enlightened Mac types thinks it's poor behaviour too.

But thankfully it's not the only way to do it, you can select a drive and hit command-E to eject, or use menu equivalents and still other ways. No different really from the PC.

Quote Richard Graham:

Likewise, why do I have to drag an icon from the installer to my Applications folder after I install some software - can't it just take it as read that having installed the software, I'd like to see that software listed in my applications?




Again, you're coming at this with a Windows perspective, so every design that is different to "how Windows does it" you kinda deem as wrong, or inferior. Looking at it the other way - to install a typical bit of windows software, you run and .EXE file, which unpacks itself into a random tmp directory, then installs a whole bunch of DLL's and registry entries before inserting itself into your Programs folder.

With smaller Mac software, you open the disk image, and copy the one application file into your applications folder. That's it - no actually "installer" process, just copy the application to your Mac and you are done. More complicated software will have an installer and do this for you (just like Windows). So there really aren't many differences here, just often the Mac way is neater and more self-contained (typically, an Application is not a single file but a bundle, but OSX hides this for you so you don't have to deal with extra complexity - but you can of course go in there if you need to.)

Quote Richard Graham:

And why should I need to select all the photos in a folder before I can start previewing them? (the answer I've seen to this one is along the line "Finder isn't a photo-viewer and you need to buy another piece of software to view your photos on a Mac" - great!).




Well, you don't. Select the file file. Press space to preview. Use your cursor up and down keys to move through the images in the directory. If you want to see a whole bunch of pics at once, select the ones you want to see first (or all of them) and then press space. Again, it's not much different to Windows. *shrugs*

Quote Richard Graham:

I still really hope I can learn to love my Mac. I will persevere. At the moment I feel like I dumped a faithful girlfriend who would cheerfully do pretty much anything, for a classy-looking high-maintenance ice-maiden.




Maybe you're just not giving her a chance... My advice would be to stop expecting her to be identical to your former girlfriend, and learn to love her for *her*, and get to know her strengths - you might just realise eventually, once you've shed those ingrained and entrenched Windows habits that the new way *might* actually work as well, or even better, for you... There is no way in hell I'm ever going back. Admittedly, Windows 7 is imo the best version of Windows since XP, but Windows 8 is as far as I'm concerned a train wreck disaster so far - the initial setup of my dad's new laptop, which he mistakenly realised post-purchase that it had Windows 8, was so comical and farcical I could hardly believe it... It's a horribly confused mess of poor, inconsistent and badly thought out ideas and a confused idea of what direction to go in.

The thing is, for any "pro" or "con" you can put forward about any computer system, there will always be arguments, counter-points and different opinions that it doesn't really matter how well it works for other people - the only person you need to worry about is yourself, so get something that works for you. No system is perfect, and they all are the results of tens of thousands of design decisions, any one of which might be regarded as "dumb" or "unintuitive" by any given user.

As far as I'm concerned, modern computers are damn near miraculous compared to what we had in the past. For me, Mac's work far better than anything else and I've had plenty experience with everything to be able to make an informed choice. But what ticks my boxes may not tick yours. As for the rest, my gut feeling is that you are simply too stuck in the "windows way of doing things" that anything different seems "hard" - it isn't, it's just different, and once you embrace that, you'll get on better with the Mac. If you cannot do that, then you'l probably always find it more effort and less rewarding than just working with a PC that you know so well.


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: I give up new [Re: desmond]
      #1070091 - 12/10/13 10:49 PM
Thanks Desmond. It's good to know the Mac community at large also thinks the Trash thing is stupid. Useful too to know about Select\CTRL-E before removing the hardware. In Windows you just physically unplug the device - as long as there is no I/O going on, no harm is done. If you do this in OSX you get told off.

Thanks for the advice about previewing pictures. I've tried the space bar thing and it works as you say - but I can't seem to preview pictures full screen and use the arrow keys to scroll through them - you know, like a slide show. It's only a small thing, admittedly. I need to remember to select all before I hit preview, is all.

You think I deem things "wrong or inferior" just because they differ from Windows, but that's not the case. There is plenty that is different about OSX which is just as good as Windows, and sometimes it is better, e.g. Time Machine. I do deem things "wrong or inferior" when they are (or at least seem) "wrong or inferior", as with the two previous examples. Like everyone else I am sometimes wrong: as with this installer business, which I understand much better now thanks to your explanation.

I do think I came to OSX with unrealistically high expectations. Partly because of all the stories I'd heard of people wishing they'd gone Mac years ago (there are plenty of these to counterbalance my own tale of woe!). But mostly because the iPad, which was my first experience of an Apple product, got it so right, I thought there really could be a "perfect" OS, and I thought Apple's might be it. But as you say, it's horses for courses, a case of what you are used to and prefer.

I have deliberately stayed off my PC for a good long time now, to give myself the best possible chance of getting to grips with OSX, forcing myself to learn to do things the Apple way. I'm getting there, but there are times like this morning where I just needed to get a job done and not spend all day at it, when I have to go back to Windows, not because I already know how to do something in Windows, but because I know it can be done, and the answer is a Google search away. I was probably unlucky this morning, in that Apple had removed the exact feature I wanted. Being a relative novice, I just assumed I was doing it wrong, and kept on trying.

I do think there is a perception among some Mac-using folk that OSX is superior to Windows, just as there's a perception among many Windows users that Macs are over-priced. Me, I just don't know!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070093 - 12/10/13 11:11 PM
Oh, I'm convinced OSX is better that Windows - and at least it certainly is for me. And I could write pages on the reasons why. That doesn't mean I expect everyone else to come to the same conclusion, as everyone's needs and values are different. And when talking about Mac/PC discussions, basically if you have a preference one way or another you just get written off as a prejudiced ill-informed and borderline psychotic "fanboy" or "hater". *yawn*

That doesn't mean Apple get everything right all the time - there are plenty of frustrations with Apple as there are with Microsoft (or any other large company).

However, my frustrations with MS/Windows far exceed any delight from them, and the delight I get from Apple/OSX/Macs far exceeds the frustrations I have with them, so it's an easy call for me.

It does take a while to get out of WIndows habits, because for a lot of people, the way things worked on Windows equated to the way computers worked in general. It wasn't until you get out of those habits and see that just because MS did it that way, doesn't mean it was the best way.

I'm not trying to be evangelical about this, like I say, we all have different values, and we choose the tools and methods that speak to our values and help us enjoy doing what we do. I choose what I choose for very particular reasons, and I choose OSX because it works for me far better than any of the alternatives. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I've got, so far...


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sc1460
member


Joined: 07/01/01
Posts: 90
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070096 - 12/10/13 11:56 PM
When I left Windows XP, Cubase and Premiere and went across to Apple, Logic and Final Cut I also felt exactly as you did. After all I had been using Windows since 1990 (anyone remember Windows 386 - when you launched it the first thing you saw was File Manager? I even used Excel VERSION 1.0! OMG ancient!)

It took me a year to completely abandon Mr Bill Gates vision of the desktop (inspired from Xerox and Apple) and feel completely comfortable with Mr Steve Jobs vision of the desktop (inspired from Xerox and his genius Wozniak). My best guide was a friend who knew Apple OS inside out - a simple phone call was all it took to clear up a question.

It was 4 years ago that PCs stopped inspiring me personally and I converted myself and my entire family to Apple. (Learning lesson - don't do it in the middle of a tense project). The entire house is Apple-ified not because I am a gear-snob or have money to throw (of course I wish they were cheaper) but because of the utter simplicity of using it.

In my PC days I got very technical - most of my discussions with friends at pubs was about what graphics card, IP addresses, DRIVER issues, optimising the system aaagh. With Apple I find I've mostly stopped discussing technical things - there's no point since its mostly a closed system. I can now focus on the work itself.

The downside is 2 fold for me:

- Apple have def reduced innovation/focus focus on Logic and Final Cut compared to their competition - 4 years ago these tools were top dog - now they are being outpaced as Apple focuses on consumer apps - however I admit they still get the job done pretty well, I just wish they had the other bells and whistles.

- I cant keep pace with Apple's fast upgrade strategy, the frequent new OS's, the rapid obsolescence of input/outputs eg expresscard slots; I simply don't have the time! I'm hanging onto my 2009 models, 32 bit and Snow Leopard (which do a great job) for the moment :-)


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5483
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070100 - 13/10/13 02:33 AM
Tell me, Graham, have you not bought a new VCR, DVD or TV and not sat there trying to figure things out surrounded by manuals and user guides and whatever else? I know I have! Gawd, the number of hours I have spent/wasted plumbing the damned things in and then figuring out how to sodding well watch/record a programme.

Thankfully, I have a teenage daughter who somehow works it out in minutes, seconds even

VCR, DVD or TV - they all do essentially the same thing ... but differently and you just have to get used to each one.

It can be a struggle sometimes though. As I mentioned, I've been on Macs since 1988 but I have to scratch my head sometimes with new features Apple put in the new OS. Not because those features are 'bad' as such, just different and one has to adjust/adapt.

Another analogy, perhaps, is hire cars abroad...

The same as cars here but they drive on the wrong side of the road so things are in the wrong place - you have to adapt pretty quickly. Not just that but you might be used to driving one brand of car at home and then hire some cheap Fiat abroad where everything's the same but, errmmm, different.

Stick with it and persevere, Graham. Yes - computers can be bloody frustrating things ... and yes, my Mac(s) can give me a bit of gip from time to time ... as can my boiler, as can my mother's TV/satellite thingy and so on - nothing's infallible ... and synths that play up, guitars that go out of tune, whatever. And Windows just drives me so f'k'n nuts sometimes that I lose the will to live!

But on the subject of guitars - some prefer Strats, others prefer Telecasters and others couldn't give a stuff about those - they have a Les Paul ... while others laugh at all of them with their inexpensive Tokais, etc.. It's down to preference, what turns you on. I could buy an Alesis Micron or Novation something-or-other and get squidgy analogue synth noises but I prefer my analogue modular (quite a bit more expensive but what I want). I could run that through VST/AU plug-ins but I prefer the crusty swirliness of my Boss CE300 bucket brigade chorus and tape delays, etc..

And I happen to prefer Macs to Windows PCs. Simple as that. I do happen to think that Macs are better than Windows PCs overall but YMMV according to what you're used to. Some like CuBase, others ProTools, others Reaper (which I've never really got on with) - I prefer Logic because I am used to it (even though it p!sses me off sometimes). And so on.

On a different (and maybe more mundane) tack, I moved HS Towers out here to a rural location a year or so ago (long story). It's great - built in 1700-and-something, Grade II listed, quirky and it's great. But it came with an electric cooker - and I am used to gas and was a bit nifty in the kitchen. I am now a double carbon life form because of the burnt stuff I've ingested over the last year since moving here with that damned electric thing ... simply because I am just not used to cooking with electrics.

In an ideal world, everything would work flawlessly ... but it's not an ideal world. If it was, your car wouldn't break down when you have an important appointment, your printer would work every time, your internet connection wouldn't conk out inexplicably, you wouldn't spend three hours waiting on the phone waiting for someone (who, it is claimed really value your call) to f'k'n well answer the damned thing ... and then spill you a bucketload of total gobsh!te ... assuming the Windows intranet they have at at the call centre hasn't crashed!!

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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xFasterMikeyH



Joined: 08/10/04
Posts: 439
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070112 - 13/10/13 08:33 AM
Quote Richard Graham:

As for OSX being more intuitive, we will have to agree to disagree.


I _hate_ the way Finder displays directory hierarchy on OSX, Windows Explorer is, to me, much more intuitive. OTOH being able to make a new directory by hitting 'shift-apple-n' suits me much better than having to click a button in Windows Explorer (or use the context menu).

Quote Richard Graham:

but really, what is intuitive about having to drag an external hard drive to the Trash (of all places!) in order to eject it? In Windows you just disconnect it.


The answer is that OSX is protecting you from yourself and whatever the OS or other applications may be doing with the external drive at the point when you want to eject it. There's a sensible explanation here: http://superuser.com/questions/580738/why-do-macs-require-to-eject-usb-but -windows-and-linux-dont

Quote Richard Graham:

I guess I've heard the story so many times - the one that goes "my Windows PC was always a right hassle and I could never just get on and do my music on it, then one day I bought a Mac and everything just clicked", that I thought I'd chime in with my 2p worth.


I'm happy for those people. And their lucky, lucky lives.

Quote Richard Graham:

To reply to those people who said (in so many words) "stick with PC then", it's good advice and I'd be happy to, but sadly GarageBand on the iPad is too brilliant and unique a musical sketchpad to give up, and the only way to work on GarageBand tunes after the first stages of getting them sketched out, is using Logic.


Yeah, the only reason I have a Mac is because of the software (Logic mainly). If you love GB that much then carry on trying.

Quote Richard Graham:

At the moment I feel like I dumped a faithful girlfriend who would cheerfully do pretty much anything for me, for a classy-looking high-maintenance ice-maiden.


If it makes you feel any better, I spent the best part of 16 hours last week trying to roll back IE10 to IE9 on Windows 7 last week - I failed. The only upside is that now I seem unable to install any version of IE on my Windows 7 machine

FMH


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Thomas.



Joined: 29/04/12
Posts: 162
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070115 - 13/10/13 09:20 AM
Quote Richard Graham:



As for OSX being more intuitive, we will have to agree to disagree. After 6 months I am sort of getting used to it, but it's hardly a pleasure to use. I am going to continue to stick with it (having ponied up a grand for the MBP), hoping that the light finally dawns: but really, what is intuitive about having to drag an external hard drive to the Trash (of all places!) in order to eject it? In Windows you just disconnect it.




That isn't the only way to eject a drive, you can right click on the icon and pick eject, or use the eject button next to the drive name in Finder. And every version of Windows since 95 has required that you eject an external drive before unplugging it (the pop-up menu item being next to 'Format', which seems like an odd design choice).

Quote:

Likewise, why do I have to drag an icon from the installer to my Applications folder after I install some software - can't OSX just take it as read that having installed the software, I'd like to see that software listed in my Applications?




Dragging the icon IS how you install it. A program "icon" in OSX is actually a folder, containing all the libraries, executables etc. When you drag it from the installer disk (either a CD, or a DMG disk image file), you are putting it on the hard drive. Double clicking the DMG just opens the disk image, the same as inserting a CD or opening an ISO image of a Cd in Windows.


Quote:

And why should I need to select all the photos in a folder before I can start previewing them? (the answer I've seen to this one is along the line "Finder isn't a photo-viewer and you need to buy another piece of software to view your photos on a Mac" - great, thanks!). And don't get me started on iTunes (which is also a POS on the PC, to be fair).





Try changing the view in Finder to icons. Then you get a thumbnail view of each file, just like in Windows 7. There is a slider on the bottom right hand side to change the size of the thumbnail. Or multi-column, and then the right most column contains a preview of any file type - image, PDF, music, video.


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turbodave



Joined: 25/04/08
Posts: 2321
Loc: derbyshire uk
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070120 - 13/10/13 11:18 AM
2 things...The trackpad is the boss! (I can't stand people who click it rather than feather it now)and on the trackpad , 2 fingers tap brings up eject hard drive. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: I give up new [Re: Thomas.]
      #1070133 - 13/10/13 12:58 PM
Quote Thomas.:

Quote Richard Graham:



As for OSX being more intuitive, we will have to agree to disagree. After 6 months I am sort of getting used to it, but it's hardly a pleasure to use. I am going to continue to stick with it (having ponied up a grand for the MBP), hoping that the light finally dawns: but really, what is intuitive about having to drag an external hard drive to the Trash (of all places!) in order to eject it? In Windows you just disconnect it.




That isn't the only way to eject a drive, you can right click on the icon and pick eject, or use the eject button next to the drive name in Finder. And every version of Windows since 95 has required that you eject an external drive before unplugging it).




Nope. In Windows, you can just pull the drive out. Never had a problem with this.

Quote Thomas.:


Quote:

Likewise, why do I have to drag an icon from the installer to my Applications folder after I install some software - can't OSX just take it as read that having installed the software, I'd like to see that software listed in my Applications?




Dragging the icon IS how you install it. A program "icon" in OSX is actually a folder, containing all the libraries, executables etc. When you drag it from the installer disk (either a CD, or a DMG disk image file), you are putting it on the hard drive. Double clicking the DMG just opens the disk image, the same as inserting a CD or opening an ISO image of a Cd in Windows.





Windows. Download .exe. Double click to install.
OSX. Download .dmg. Double click to open. Drag icon to Application folder to install.

From your explanation, and Desmond's, it seems that things are kept neater "under the bonnet" in OSX. This is a price worth paying for the tiny extra inconvenience.

Quote Thomas.:


Quote:

And why should I need to select all the photos in a folder before I can start previewing them? (the answer I've seen to this one is along the line "Finder isn't a photo-viewer and you need to buy another piece of software to view your photos on a Mac" - great, thanks!). And don't get me started on iTunes (which is also a POS on the PC, to be fair).





Try changing the view in Finder to icons. Then you get a thumbnail view of each file, just like in Windows 7. There is a slider on the bottom right hand side to change the size of the thumbnail. Or multi-column, and then the right most column contains a preview of any file type - image, PDF, music, video.




But I want a full screen slide show. I hate having clutter all over my screen when viewing photos.

All pretty small beer, I admit, but it all adds up, and it seems like some Maccies have a hard time admitting that anything might be better or easier in Windows. These are a few small examples of things that I find that bit less intuitive and convenient, there are a lot more besides, no doubt at least partly because of my familiarity with the other OS. As I say, I will persevere. One day I will love OSX, I'm sure. I just hope it isn't too far off!

@ Hollowsun, I can adjust to using a left hand drive car of a type I've never sat in before, within about half an hour of starting to drive it (usually round and round the airport, trying to find the exit!), likewise, it took me no time at all to work out how to use the recorder function on my TV. Six months is a long time to feel like you are wrestling with something rather than using it effortlessly. I know this isn't really Apple's fault, but a lot of the Apple cachet is based around ease of use. And indeed, the iPad is a great example of something that totally delivers on that promise. To blame my familiarity with Microsoft for my inability to use Apple is a bit like me blaming my Skoda for the fact I find a Ferrari hard to drive.

I probably came to the wrong place to have a moan about Apple, as I acknowledged in my second post. Apologies to all, and thanks to everyone for offering me tips and explanations.

P.S. the trackpad is ace. But there is no Right Click on it! Is that what 2-finger tap is for then?

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4286
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070134 - 13/10/13 01:02 PM
Quote turbodave:

2 things...The trackpad is the boss! (I can't stand people who click it rather than feather it now)and on the trackpad , 2 fingers tap brings up eject hard drive. Dave


+1 on that, Dave!

Yes, 2 finger tap=right click. And two finger scrolling is v. useful, really speeds things up.

My one big OSX moan is not getting a decent full-screen preview! I do think Windows picture files & previews are a bit better than on Macs

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


Edited by Guy Johnson (13/10/13 01:07 PM)


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xFasterMikeyH



Joined: 08/10/04
Posts: 439
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070143 - 13/10/13 01:51 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

Windows. Download .exe. Double click to install.
OSX. Download .dmg. Double click to open. Drag icon to Application folder to install.



Installing software on any platform is a variable experience. In the scenario you've just described the experience in Windows is better. However there are plenty of applications that don't need any installation on both OSX and Windows, you just double click on the executable. Similarly, there are plenty of installers on Windows that are where you have to answer questions (usually a set of checkboxes), "Do you want a desktop icon?", "Should I be added to the short-cut menu?", "Should I be installed in my default location (C:\Windows\asdfasdf)?", "Should I completely screw your registry settings?". Arguably that is as annoying as having to click on an icon and drag it to a different location.

Quote Richard Graham:

it seems like some Maccies have a hard time admitting that anything might be better or easier in Windows.


Yeah, some Windows bods are the same. So are some Linux people.

Quote Richard Graham:

P.S. the trackpad is ace. But there is no Right Click on it! Is that what 2-finger tap is for then?


My MBP has a right-click on the track-pad. Maybe Apple has regressed on the whole context menu thing again and are starting on a new 'single-button' policy? Some people like the 2 finger tap thing, but what will they do when Apple comes for them and they haven't defended the 'clickers'? Once again the context menu will be removed and there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Possibly.


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5363
Re: I give up new [Re: xFasterMikeyH]
      #1070146 - 13/10/13 02:14 PM
Quote xFasterMikeyH:

... there are plenty of installers on Windows that are where you have to answer questions (usually a set of checkboxes), "Do you want a desktop icon?", "Should I be added to the short-cut menu?", "Should I be installed in my default location (C:\Windows\asdfasdf)?", "Should I completely screw your registry settings?".




Well, considering many applications' desire to install themselves as default for a particular file-type, that choice can be very useful. The R-click menu, though very useful, can get crowded. And those of us who have installed SSD drives of (necessarily at present, for all except millionaires) limited size, may not want ALL applications to reside on the faster drive.

Depends whether you want control, or a quick route to default settings. My feeling is that useful options SHOULD be offered, even if it takes away a little "easyness". How often do you install software anyway? And, heck, you've bought this expensive and versatile machine, you do have SOME responsibility to learn to drive it!

What we DON'T need is the sneaky pre-selected check-box trying to install something ELSE as well. Chrome, for instance, claims a high penetration. But how many people do you know who have Chrome installed - but can't remember actually asking for it?


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Thomas.



Joined: 29/04/12
Posts: 162
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070156 - 13/10/13 04:34 PM
Quote Richard Graham:



Nope. In Windows, you can just pull the drive out. Never had a problem with this.




You may never have had a problem with it, but it isn't the recommended action. I've seen plenty of people lose data by pulling a thumb drive out of a Windows machine without ejecting it.

Quote:

But I want a full screen slide show. I hate having clutter all over my screen when viewing photos.




Ah, slide show rather than preview. Yes, I see what you mean now - OSX doesn't do that natively, but you might be able to do it in iPhoto. I don't know, I rarely need a slide show, and I use Aperture.

Quote:

All pretty small beer, I admit, but it all adds up, and it seems like some Maccies have a hard time admitting that anything might be better or easier in Windows. These are a few small examples of things that I find that bit less intuitive and convenient, there are a lot more besides, no doubt at least partly because of my familiarity with the other OS. As I say, I will persevere. One day I will love OSX, I'm sure. I just hope it isn't too far off!




Well, as I say, I've been a power user of Windows longer than I have been an OSX user. Yes, there are things in OSX that are more annoying - the lack of keyboard shortcuts on the desktop is a huge one, the way screen shots are taken, the fact that closing a window doesn't always close the programme, the way full screen works, poor support fro multiple monitors in general. I wasn't trying to be snotty and say "OSX does everything BETTERER", just sharing some info that you might not have found out. Another annoyance: OSX help files are shocking, and I don't subscribe to "it's intuitive, you don't need help files". Balls. But for me, I'm more productive with the software available in OSX, for less money, than I was with a Windows machine.

Quote:

P.S. the trackpad is ace. But there is no Right Click on it! Is that what 2-finger tap is for then?




Yes, two finger tap does right click, but there is "physical" right click as well. You have to enable it in Settings, but you can't have both (right click and two-finger tap).

Edited by Thomas. (13/10/13 04:35 PM)


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Wease



Joined: 17/07/03
Posts: 2171
Loc: Sunny Walsall
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070185 - 13/10/13 09:07 PM
There is a trick to download any YouTube video directly from the browser...

...but technically it's against the terms and conditions to download vids from YouTube for use in presentations...one should (apparently) always stream them.....or so I'm told (this from an education seminar I attended) .....so I shan't tell


Oh...ok ...just type ss following the www. section of the URL of the YouTube video.....directs you to a downloading site....dead easy and multi platform/multi browser compatible....

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/seaapes


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: I give up new [Re: Wease]
      #1070188 - 13/10/13 09:42 PM
Quote Wease:

There is a trick to download any YouTube video directly from the browser...

...but technically it's against the terms and conditions to download vids from YouTube for use in presentations...one should (apparently) always stream them.....or so I'm told (this from an education seminar I attended) .....so I shan't tell


Oh...ok ...just type ss following the www. section of the URL of the YouTube video.....directs you to a downloading site....dead easy and multi platform/multi browser compatible....




Awesome advice Wease, thanks!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070213 - 14/10/13 09:02 AM
Quote Richard Graham:

Nope. In Windows, you can just pull the drive out. Never had a problem with this.




Well, in OSX, you can just pull the drive out.

The only difference is, with OSX you get a warning (effectively a slapped wrist for doing this). In Windows you don't.

The reasons why you shouldn't just unplug a drive, or switch the power off are the same - the OS (or the drive, for that matter) does not immediately write things to disk - all drives use a fairly complicated caching mechanism to improve performance.

If you just remove a drive, there is a possibility that stuff that needs to be written to disk hasn't yet been written, and forcibly removing the drive can therefore cause corruption.

Now, in practice, the likelihood is small as the caching system is complicated and is designed to mimimise data loss in power outage situations where ossible - but, It's still recommended for all systems that you shut down a disk properly, give the drive and the OS the correct time and procedure to flush writes safely to the disk, park the heads, and exit cleanly.

So what's better - having the OS remind you that ripping the drive out is a bit naughty and thus helping modify your behaviour, or having the OS sneakily think to itself you're a bit silly for behaving in such an erratic way and thinking "well if you corrupt your drives it's your own fault".

Ultimately, as I've said, OS's do things in broadly the same way, they just differ in the details. They are design decisions, and in this particular case, Apple choose the (reasonably sensible imo) approach to warn you if you've done this in the hope that you won't keep doing it and potentially give yourself a problem.

Windows just expects the user the understand how drives work and cache, and leave it up to you to know what you are doing, and if something goes wrong, it will leave it up to you to figure it out and fix it, too...


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3104
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070218 - 14/10/13 09:21 AM
The points you bring up seem rather trivial. Personally I've used Windows for 10 years longer than OSX and I found OSX a million times more intuitive and hassle free. The whole registry nightmare / programs not installing or deinstalling properly, virus checkers, firewalls, crappy backup systems, UAC crap, general slowing down the longer you have the computer ..

Its a matter of opinion of course, but it seems that you are digging rather deep to find the tiniest of problems. The only thing I miss on OSX is the split window left/right snapping.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: johnny h]
      #1070220 - 14/10/13 09:28 AM
On recent versions of OSX one of the main things that drives me nuts is that multi-monitor support was fine up until Snow Leopard - then Lion came along and Apple added "full screen mode" which basically hideously broke multi-monitor users. And it's been broken ever since, until they finally went around and fixed it for the forthcoming Mavericks.

I have no problem with Apple driving towards less complexity and more intelligent behaviour to not require people to have to understand underlying complicated technical things - however, I draw the line when they dumb down or take away useful features that people like us need because they think it might get in the way for the average user...


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Sam Inglis
SOS Features Editor


Joined: 15/12/00
Posts: 1615
Re: I give up new [Re: Thomas.]
      #1070225 - 14/10/13 09:45 AM
Quote Thomas.:

I've seen plenty of people lose data by pulling a thumb drive out of a Windows machine without ejecting it.





The odd things about Windows 7 (on my computer anyway) is that it offers an Eject option for thumb drives but not for USB hard drives, so you have no choice but to either power the computer down or hot-plug them.

Also, am I the only one who feels that from the user point of view, Mac OS peaked a couple of versions ago, and has been getting steadily more annoying since? For instance, if you put a folder into the dock, it used to be that when you clicked that folder, it would simply open in the Finder. As of the last couple of Mac OS revisions, clicking on a folder in the dock brings up a stupid grey window previewing its contents, and makes the whole business of just opening the thing that much more complicated. Likewise, the current version of TextEdit seems constantly to try to make you to store everything in bloody iCloud.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Sam Inglis]
      #1070229 - 14/10/13 10:05 AM
Quote Sam Inglis:

Also, am I the only one who feels that from the user point of view, Mac OS peaked a couple of versions ago, and has been getting steadily more annoying since?




A little bit, yes. For me, Snow Leopard was the nicest version of OSX to use.

While there have been some good additions to OSX since then, most of those are either underlying techy things that the average user doesn't really see, the rest being small minor things, and a whole bunch of things that for me add very little value but do start to get in the way a little. (Not saying those things aren't useful to others of course.)

These are small things, but for example, software update pops up a little notification that software updates are available. I just want to the thing to go away, and yet any combination of clicking on any of the buttons or the popup itself doesn't dismiss it, it instead runs the App Store app. So in order to just dismiss the notification, I have to click it, wait for the App Store to run, then quit it. Maybe there's a secret dismiss key command I should probably google, but even so, couldn't one of the available buttons be "go away"..?

Quote Sam Inglis:

Likewise, the current version of TextEdit seems constantly to try to make you to store everything in bloody iCloud.




I used to really like that you could write some temporary text item in text edit, then quit text edit without saving it, and having that unsaved text restored the next time I ran text edit. They've removed that, forcing a save now... Like I say, minor things, but things that a regular minor annoyances eventually becomes a major one..


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4286
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070231 - 14/10/13 10:21 AM
i'm still with Snow Leopard; no need to change. Recently Mac OS, and some apps (iTunes 11 is poo for instance) have been dumbed down too much.

Best productivity thing I've come across is JumpCut which gives a drop-down list of clipboard history ... Very useful Indeed!

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2351
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: I give up new [Re: Sam Inglis]
      #1070232 - 14/10/13 10:26 AM
Quote Sam Inglis:

The odd things about Windows 7 (on my computer anyway) is that it offers an Eject option for thumb drives but not for USB hard drives, so you have no choice but to either power the computer down or hot-plug them.




This surprised me, so I went off and checked. True you can't eject a USB hard drive by right-clicking on it but you do have a way of ejecting it nevertheless. On the taskbar there's an upward pointing arrow. If you click on that you get some more icons, one of which is a picture of a USB plug. Click on that and you'll get a dialogue that allows you to eject the USB drive safely.


Quote Sam Inglis:

Also, am I the only one who feels that from the user point of view, Mac OS peaked a couple of versions ago, and has been getting steadily more annoying since?




Couldn't agree more. After Snow Leopard they seem be far more concerned with forcing users to work in certain ways that seem good to them and which appear to be mostly derived from mobile phone GUIs. Desktops aren't mobile phones, but no-one at Apple appears to be listening.

Unfortunately no-one at Microsoft appears to be either, because they are doing exactly the same thing with Windows 8. Meh!

CC

--------------------
Back away from the concertina and no-one gets hurt
Mr Punch's Studio


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #1070233 - 14/10/13 10:27 AM
Quote Guy Johnson:

Best productivity thing I've come across is JumpCut which gives a drop-down list of clipboard history ... Very useful Indeed!




I use LaunchBar, which I cannot stress how much I love. It includes a clipboard history feature as one of it's many essential functions. LB is the first utility I install on a Mac and it's essential to a speedy workflow for me...


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5483
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: I give up new [Re: Thomas.]
      #1070236 - 14/10/13 10:37 AM
Quote Thomas.:

You may never have had a problem with it, but it isn't the recommended action. I've seen plenty of people lose data by pulling a thumb drive out of a Windows machine without ejecting it.



^^ That

Quote Thomas.:

the lack of keyboard shortcuts on the desktop is a huge one



Eh?

Quote Thomas.:

the way screen shots are taken



Eh? Might not be as handy as 'Print Screen' but it's just a key combination away (and more legible than 'Print Screen').

Quote Thomas.:

the fact that closing a window doesn't always close the programme



Good. I don't want programmes and apps closing and opening all the time.

Quote Thomas.:

poor support fro multiple monitors in general.



What?! I have two 3rd party (I.e not Apple) monitors here. Just plugged the second one in - done ... worked straight away. Plugged a spare monitor into the MB Pro ... same - worked first time.

And, of course, the other misconception is that one can only use (arguably expensive) Apple peripherals which, of course, is totally untrue - I don't have any Apple peripherals here on any of my Apple 'puters - 2 x 27" monitors (which use the same screen as the Apple Cinema but 1/3rd the price), standard USB keyboard, multi button mouse with scroll wheel, terabytes of storage inside the tower, USB sticks, SD/Flash card reader, etc., none of it Apple.

About the only thing I can't stand with Apple 'puters are the damned trackpads everyone here raves about. Had to use one checking out my daughter's MB Pro - drove me f'k'n nuts. She, however, gets on fine with it. Bloody kids!

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1070237 - 14/10/13 10:40 AM
Quote hollowsun:

Quote Thomas.:

poor support fro multiple monitors in general.



What?! I have two 3rd party (I.e not Apple) monitors here. Just plugged the second one in - done ... worked straight away. Plugged a spare monitor into the MB Pro ... same - worked first time.




No, that's not what we mean.

Say you want to watch a video in fullscreen in Quicktime on one monitor while working on the other monitor. From Lion onwards, you can't. Try it and see what happens. Useless. They haven only gotten around to fixing this some years later with Mavericks. The fullscreen implementation (along with related functions across multiple monitors) is badly broken and has been for ages.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5483
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: I give up new [Re: Sam Inglis]
      #1070240 - 14/10/13 10:45 AM
Quote Sam Inglis:

Also, am I the only one who feels that from the user point of view, Mac OS peaked a couple of versions ago, and has been getting steadily more annoying since?



That much is true. Some annoying 'extras' in there now but nothing insurmountable (and you can always ignore a lot of them).

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5363
Re: I give up new [Re: Sam Inglis]
      #1070241 - 14/10/13 10:53 AM
Quote Sam Inglis:

The odd things about Windows 7 (on my computer anyway) is that it offers an Eject option for thumb drives but not for USB hard drives, so you have no choice but to either power the computer down or hot-plug them.




Don't you get the "Safely Remove Hardware and Eject Media" icon in the System Tray for ANY USB or Firewire connected storage device? I'm even invited to eject my Fireface 800 audio interface!

I agree, a warning should be given by Windows after an untidy unplugging. It won't help THAT time, but would at least educate the user about the Eject function. Hot-unplugging is probably behind the majority of memory stick "failures", and the Eject icon seems a well-kept secret from many users.


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CS70



Joined: 26/11/12
Posts: 334
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Re: I give up new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #1070242 - 14/10/13 10:58 AM
From reading the above, it seems to me that when approaching both OSX and Windows, people is initially puzzled and need explanation, unless of course they're used to them.

The only possible reasonable conclusion is that none of the two is particularly intuitive or easy to use :-)

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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8638
Re: I give up new [Re: CS70]
      #1070245 - 14/10/13 11:11 AM
Quote CS70:

The only possible reasonable conclusion is that none of the two is particularly intuitive or easy to use :-)




Actually, I can draw more than one alternative reasonable conclusions to that...


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5483
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: I give up new [Re: desmond]
      #1070265 - 14/10/13 12:33 PM
Quote desmond:

Say you want to watch a video in fullscreen in Quicktime on one monitor while working on the other monitor. From Lion onwards, you can't. Try it and see what happens.



Hmmm. ISWYM.

I don't have that problem because any vids I might watch either open in DVD Player or Quicktime Player and I enjoy the full luxury of screen acreage...



Also works perfectly well in a bunch of video player doobries here and, more importantly, works perfectly well having multiple apps open and spread across the two screens and works very well indeed. MacOS 10.7.4.

A programmer friend of mine has four monitors on his Mac.

Quote desmond:

Useless.



Harsh

Quote desmond:

They haven only gotten around to fixing this some years later with Mavericks. The fullscreen implementation (along with related functions across multiple monitors) is badly broken and has been for ages.



Errrmmm ... strikes me it's a problem with the latest version of Quicktime

Edited by Hugh Robjohns (14/10/13 04:01 PM)


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