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Huge Longjohns
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Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers?
      #1070558 - 16/10/13 02:57 PM
I am in the not-uncommon situation of needing to spend £400 on a new interface because Tascam aren't supporting my current one with drivers to work at 64 bit which Mountain Lion runs on exclusively. So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?

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"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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Wease



Joined: 17/07/03
Posts: 2239
Loc: Sunny Walsall
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070566 - 16/10/13 04:18 PM
- just as an aside

my focusrite saffire 10/10 (the really old one without adat connection) was/is not officially supported for mountain lion and 64 bit.

however, it works as it always has with ml and logic x, and so does the saffire pro software, even tho its the old one from 2007....- so id try the tascam on ML before you throw it away....

wease

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes


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Huge Longjohns
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Joined: 10/04/03
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Loc: Where the black rocks stand gu...
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070568 - 16/10/13 04:27 PM
Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.

--------------------
"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1821
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070569 - 16/10/13 04:33 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.




RME Fireface UCX is class compliant. (SOS Feb 12). Also possibly Tascam US800?

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Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5831
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070571 - 16/10/13 04:42 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

I am in the not-uncommon situation of needing to spend £400 on a new interface because Tascam aren't supporting my current one with drivers to work at 64 bit which Mountain Lion runs on exclusively. So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?




It seems to mean that you'll get basic features on a plug-and-play basis, but if you want the clever stuff (like the stuff people buy RME interfaces to get) you'll still need to install a software.

This is only based on skimming the RME forum topics that don't directly concern me though, so I may be wrong.


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Scramble
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Joined: 11/09/02
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070574 - 16/10/13 04:59 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

So if I buy one that's Class Compliant does that mean it will never suffer from absence of drivers ever?




Fat chance of that!


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Folderol



Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 3729
Loc: Rochester, UK
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070584 - 16/10/13 06:03 PM
As EW said, you should certainly get the basics, read/write audio, discover/set bit rate & depth. Well, at least for as long as Microsoft and Apple support class compliance.

However, there is a gotcha with some kit. Some of it is only USB1 class compliant, not USB2 (so you'd need a driver for that) and I don't know how you'd discover which you're running apart from simply not getting the data rates advertised.

--------------------
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(Well, actually, it probably was)


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clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 204
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1070589 - 16/10/13 06:32 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

Well it won't even work with Lion without rebooting Lion into 32 bit first, but I suppose it's worth a try. Thanks for the heads up. Any idea about class compliant interfaces though? THe only ones I've found so far are the little ALesis IO ones.




Don't know about class-compliance, though I'm interested. But I thought I'd save you the hassle of trying the Tascam with ML. It doesn't work. Ended up putting mine in a corner and going with something else. Unfortunate, as they were great units. It will be a long while before I buy something else from Tascam.

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Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


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Wease



Joined: 17/07/03
Posts: 2239
Loc: Sunny Walsall
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: clisma]
      #1070606 - 16/10/13 09:02 PM
Ahh...I am sorry about that....I suppose I just got lucky with the focusrite...
Don't know of any piece of computer aided equipment (like audio devices) that I'd ever say are going to be class complient of any period of time, such is the nature of apple and Microsoft and their wish to release an operating system update every 5 mins.....but I suppose you'd probably be best using USB 3.....



--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/seaapes


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Huge Longjohns
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Joined: 10/04/03
Posts: 2007
Loc: Where the black rocks stand gu...
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072618 - 31/10/13 01:49 PM
Been reading a bit more about this and clearly some of the Alesis class compliant 'no drivers needed' kit doesn't work!

--------------------
"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22031
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072631 - 31/10/13 02:41 PM
Class Compliant interfaces need no bespoke drivers at all, ever, because they use the drivers embedded within the computer's operating system.

OSx and iOS devices are fully USB 2.0 class complaint, whereas Windows hasn't got beyond USB 1.1 class compliance.

1.1 compliance supports audio up to 24/96, while 2.0 class compliance supports up to 24/192 (and DSD).

However, class compliance will inherently have more latency than proper bespoke ASIO drivers...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Huge Longjohns
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Joined: 10/04/03
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072635 - 31/10/13 02:49 PM
So this suggests that the marketing of interfaces as CC is a bit misleading?

--------------------
"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072645 - 31/10/13 03:38 PM
Why misleading?

They are what they are. They work to the level that the class compliance and relevant operating system allows them to work -- which may well be entirely adequate for many applications and users. But bespoke ASIO derivers will always allow tighter integration and lower latency, where such things are important.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Huge Longjohns
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Joined: 10/04/03
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072659 - 31/10/13 04:33 PM
Quote:

Why misleading?




Because there's an implication that drivers are unnecessary in any circumstance. Which, from what you're saying, is not the case?

--------------------
"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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thenaturallevel



Joined: 28/02/07
Posts: 1211
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072663 - 31/10/13 05:06 PM
In regards to the RME interface and Class Compliance they state:-

Neither of these systems is relevant, though, since there are dedicated and matured drivers for both OS X and Windows, which provide ALL the device's features at lowest latencies. The main reason for implementing Class Compliant mode was to allow connecting the UCX to any Apple iPad!


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1072665 - 31/10/13 05:51 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Why misleading?

They are what they are. They work to the level that the class compliance and relevant operating system allows them to work -- which may well be entirely adequate for many applications and users. But bespoke ASIO derivers will always allow tighter integration and lower latency, where such things are important.

H




It's difficult to see why quality multitrack devices would bother to offer class compliance. Maybe to work with an iPad?


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072668 - 31/10/13 06:05 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

Because there's an implication that drivers are unnecessary in any circumstance. Which, from what you're saying, is not the case?




But they aren't needed -- at least, not drivers you load (because they are already embedded in the computer's OS). The interface (or D/A, or whatever) will work exactly as intended without you adding any drivers. It is -- to the user -- a completely driverless system.

Some interfaces are now designed to work only in class compliant modes.

However... my understanding is that this approach, convenient though it is, may not offer the lowest possible latency that bespoke ASIO drivers allow. Whether class compliant latency is an issue for a given situation, only the user can say...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1072669 - 31/10/13 06:06 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

It's difficult to see why quality multitrack devices would bother to offer class compliance. Maybe to work with an iPad?




Yes, to work with devices like that that don't readily support bespoke drivers, and to offer convenience for quick plug-n-play applications... or for people that worry about their drivers being obsoleted when the next OS upgrade comes along!

H

--------------------
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dmills



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 2426
Loc: High Wycombe, UK
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1072689 - 31/10/13 09:18 PM
There are plenty of situations where lowest possible latency is an irrelevance, but where being able to grab any old laptop and have it just work is a massive win.

For example, a pure recording application such as one may use to record a live gig is a situation where latency does not matter a whit. Similarly playback in a theater is not very latency sensitive.

For both applications I could see class compliance as being a selling point for me as it makes moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.

Just because low latency and having all the bells and whistles matters to your use case does not mean that class compliance is not of value to some users and some situations.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


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Huge Longjohns
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Joined: 10/04/03
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072723 - 01/11/13 09:09 AM
Quote:

moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.




Blimey, how many random computers do you have lying around?

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"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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Folderol



Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 3729
Loc: Rochester, UK
Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072784 - 01/11/13 03:53 PM
Quote Huge Longjohns:

Quote:

moving to a random computer if I have a technical problem with my usual machines very much quicker and easier.




Blimey, how many random computers do you have lying around?



And do they only boot up occasionally?

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)


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dmills



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 2426
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Folderol]
      #1072798 - 01/11/13 04:57 PM
$uptime
16:42:37 up 576 days, 4:09, 2 users, load average: 1.42, 1.24, 1.03
$

Yea some of them are only rebooted occasionally.

Seriously, in a professional context how can anyone survive with a single machine? It is a massive single point of failure, and if having a box go down is a show stopper, you had better have a spare or two around.

Best practice is to have a spare and swap it with your main machine every few months, that way you know it works and is reasonably up to date, a third spare in the rotation means you are still covered when one of them packs up.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


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Huge Longjohns
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Re: Class Compliant: does this mean you never need new drivers? new [Re: Huge Longjohns]
      #1072844 - 01/11/13 09:56 PM
Doesn't seem too onerous a task to keep manufacturer drivers up to date on only three computers if you're a pro, does it?

--------------------
"The man who questions opinions is wise. The man who quarrels with facts is a fool." Frank Garbutt, inventor & industrialist


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