Ian Shepherd
Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 130
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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- Or, how not to smash it hell :-)
Many of you probably already know about
this, but just in case - a new, free plugin has been released which gives you
instant, accurate feedback telling you how squashed your mix is, regardless of the
overall level.
It's an incredibly useful tool, and I think everyone should
have it and use it ! So much so that I wrote a blog post about it:
The TT Dynamic Range Meter
- or here's a direct link, if
you prefer:
Pleasurize Music - Dynamic Range Meter Download
The
creators of the plugin are on a mission to end the Loudness Wars, and I for one am backing their efforts all the
way.
Cheers,
Ian
--------------------
SRT - Sound Recording Technology
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~Paul
Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1233
Loc: South Herts/North London
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Is it doing a similar kind of job to Audioleak? Although I'd guess this is what the
offline version does..
Looks like the Mac version isn't fully up to date (No offline
function), but i'll give it a go. Thanks 
Paul
--------------------
Sound On Sound DIY forum. Not just about how to fix your broken tat!
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 10824
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Nice - thanks for the link Ian.
I've just run my most recent album through the
off-line version, and am pleased to report healthy DR values for the tracks between 11 and
13 
Martin
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YewTreeMagic
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Rain
member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Guildford UK
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I've been using this for a little while and can also recommend it. Nice simple
benchmarking tool.
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www.rain.mu
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Folderol
Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 380
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Hmmm. says it's for all platforms, but I can't find any info (or a download) for Linux 
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GaryM
Joined: 06/11/08
Posts: 134
Loc: Dundee, UK
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Quote Folderol:
Hmmm. says it's
for all platforms, but I can't find any info (or a download) for Linux
Apparently
"all platforms" = Windows and Mac OS.
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alexis
Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 162
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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Just an ignorant pseudo-newbie here, but can I ask please - is it possible to get a
passing grade from this software, but still actually be overcompressed because the
individual tracks themselves are overcompressed (i.e., even if there is dynamic range on
the stereo out itself)?
Also, I wonder how some of today's albums would fare
on this testing!
--------------------
Alexis
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Clue69Less
Joined: 07/06/09
Posts: 2
Loc: Sunny Colorado
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That would be easy enough to test, but I'm too lazy tonight. If I get time, I'll test it.
Without knowing more about the algorythm, it would be hard to predict.
The
thing is, it's not hard to find overcompressed commercial releases. It's also not hard to
find classical music that is too dynamic for some people.
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Rain
member
Joined: 05/12/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Guildford UK
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Quote alexis:
Just an ignorant
pseudo-newbie here, but can I ask please - is it possible to get a passing grade from this
software, but still actually be overcompressed because the individual tracks themselves
are overcompressed (i.e., even if there is dynamic range on the stereo out itself)?
As far as I know, the software
just gives you the dynamic range of the file, so whether the compression/limiting has
taken place on individual tracks or the stereo buss doesn't really matter
Quote alexis:
Also, I wonder
how some of today's albums would fare on this testing!
Very, very badly.
--------------------
www.rain.mu
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Guy Johnson
Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 3187
Loc: Wales
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Nice Plug. Wish one could alter the averaging-time on the central display, though. But I
expect that will come, and I look forward to the offline Mac version. Well done those
people. Hurrah!
--------------------
Johnson Sound
acousticrecord.co.uk
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Dave_84
member
Joined: 07/08/04
Posts: 76
Loc: Reading, UK
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Excellent, great link, looking forward to giving it a whirl!
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Dave
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-Noodles-
Joined: 06/12/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Glasgow
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Got this recommended by another forum, strangely found it on here tonight as well.
Will be checking this plugin out tomorrow.
--------------------
www.myspace.com/noodles_smdf
http://www.sevenindustries.tk
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talk show man
Joined: 26/08/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Belfast
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Hi Ian,
my thanks to you for the info on this software, I've downloaded it and
am already finding it very useful. I hope you don't mind, but I've put a link to your
thread on gearslutz for the benefit of readers of other forums.
Hopefully this
doesn't go against any sort of forum loyalty, if it does, feel free to rap my knuckles and
all that. Thanks again.
--------------------
like flies to wanton boys are we to the gods
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 10824
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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No, that's fine - we're all friends here 
Martin
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YewTreeMagic
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oliallard
Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 39
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do yoursleves a favor,
run 'No lines on the Horizon" into your software and see what
you thing.
A lot of people have rated this mastering as subtle but it sure ain't. Not
as hot as some big label release for sure but very squashed.
No one can say it is a
bad result but I am sure this will rate in the overcompress section.
Oli
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CosmicDolphin
Joined: 16/11/06
Posts: 24
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Great Tool !
I'm homebrew mastering an album for our collaboration site...of
the tracks I've done so far they bounce between 8 & 12...so I guess averaging about
10db dymnamic range on the fuller sounding songs...how does that compare to everyone else
? There's 2-3db more range on the acoustic stuff.
Is there somewhere to post up
some mastered tracks for a set of Golden Ears to listen to ? This CD will be on Itunes
etc. and I don't wanna screw it up even if it is mostly a vanity CD.
Mark
--------------------
I am not a singer - I'm a vocal ' stylist '
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onesecondglance
Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Reading, UK
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try the "My Sound Files" board here.
--------------------
random thoughts about the world, digested into bitesize bloggy chunks
doubledotdash!? collective - hear tunes!
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 10824
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Quote CosmicDolphin:
I'm homebrew
mastering an album for our collaboration site...of the tracks I've done so far they bounce
between 8 & 12...so I guess averaging about 10db dymnamic range on the fuller sounding
songs...how does that compare to everyone else ? There's 2-3db more range on the acoustic
stuff.
Between 8 and 12
sounds fine to me Mark. As I mentioned above, my recent tracks have ended up between 11
and 13, and I'm well pleased with the dynamic range on those.
As mentioned,
you can get feedback on your tracks if you visit our 'My Sound Files' forum here:
www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=MYSF
Martin
--------------------
YewTreeMagic
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CosmicDolphin
Joined: 16/11/06
Posts: 24
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Thanks Guys , I'll head over there and post some tracks.
Mark
--------------------
I am not a singer - I'm a vocal ' stylist '
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Dj Pariah
Joined: 07/07/08
Posts: 6
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I downloaded and checked a bunch of tracks. Im mostly geared towards dance music, electro
in particular, and they all seem to be squashed to hell. Do you think a tool like this is
more for other genres seeing as dance music tends to thrive off of being as loud as
possible?
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CosmicDolphin
Joined: 16/11/06
Posts: 24
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Quote CosmicDolphin:
Thanks Guys
, I'll head over there and post some tracks.
Mark
I've started a thread and posted a few
examples if anyone would like to take a listen....
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=747177&
page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#747177
Mark
--------------------
I am not a singer - I'm a vocal ' stylist '
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funkyant
Joined: 02/06/08
Posts: 110
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Thank you very much for informing us about this useful tool.
--------------------
Visit my band's website 
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 10824
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Quote Dj Pariah:
I downloaded and
checked a bunch of tracks. Im mostly geared towards dance music, electro in particular,
and they all seem to be squashed to hell. Do you think a tool like this is more for other
genres seeing as dance music tends to thrive off of being as loud as possible?
No, I suspect the whole point of this
tool is to do exactly what you've found - prove to as many people as possible that much
modern music is squashed to hell. Dance music can be as loud as you like without having to
be squashed - you just turn up the playback level a little more 
I agree it must be frustrating in a live DJ environment to have
different tracks at radically different levels, but we can't carry on as we are, as so
much music is getting increasingly unpleasant to listen to for more than a few minutes at
a time.
Martin
--------------------
YewTreeMagic
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Adam Inglis
Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 205
Loc: Gold Coast Queensland Australi...
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You could argue that dance music needs overcompressing the least of all genres. It is
specifically made to be played on big systems in clubs! But of course, any dynamic
subtleties will be lost over bar and crowd noise I guess....
--------------------
Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!
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Ian Shepherd
Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 130
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Hi All,
Sorry not to reply sooner, just had a couple of weeks break.
Glad people are finding the plugin useful, I think it's fantastic.
@alexis -
If most of your channels were heavily over-compressed, but you had a couple of much more
dynamic ones in there as well, my guess it the overall DR rating would be large even
though elements of the mix were very compressed. A mix like this probably wouldn't hang
together that well, though, so unless your ears tell you something isn't right, I wouldn't
worry too much.
@oliallard - Although "No Line On The Horizon" is heavily
compressed and still high in average level, it's no-where near as squashed as U2's
previous album - and, if you check it out in the DR meter you'll see that some of the
worst-sounding tracks are peaking well below zero dB. My conclusion from that is that the
ME actually turned these tracks down at some points to increase the dynamic impact... so
overall I'm not a big fan of the sound of this album, but I don't think the ME can be
blamed.
@talk show man - Thanks for spreading the word ! The more people who
use this, the better.
Cheers,
Ian
--------------------
SRT - Sound Recording Technology
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Jonnypopisical
Joined: 16/07/05
Posts: 445
Loc: London
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Quote Adam Inglis:
You could
argue that dance music needs overcompressing the least of all genres. It is specifically
made to be played on big systems in clubs! But of course, any dynamic subtleties will be
lost over bar and crowd noise I guess....
But you also ague the other way round BECAUSE it is played loud
relative track levels need to be consistent and in practice that means consistently high,
especially as in clubs loud does usually sound 'better'. Of course this can be overdone
but I don't think there is anything wrong with a loud dance mix as long as it remains
punchy.
--------------------
G5 Dual 2.7Ghz. Logic 7&8. RMX. Waves. UAD. Powercore, MOTU 2408mk II, Kontact, Albino, Blue, Vienna Special II, EZ Drummer, Virtual Guitar, Virus, M1, Wavestation etc
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Alan A
Joined: 24/12/08
Posts: 3
Loc: San Frandisco
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Quote Adam Inglis:
You could
argue that dance music needs overcompressing the least of all genres. It is specifically
made to be played on big systems in clubs! But of course, any dynamic subtleties will be
lost over bar and crowd noise I guess....
There ia a very practical reason why club music is heavily
compressed. And as a producer of House music for over a decade, I'll tell you the
reason... we want to sell records!
DJs love loud tracks... and they actually
need loud tracks. When a DJ is sifting through the hundreds of new titles that come out
every week, loudness does make a track stand out. There was a recent medical study that
links loudness to heart rate http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/weekly/20090629_Personal_Hea
lth__News_and_Notes.html
The point of club music is to get your heart rate
aroused, so any trick to create an ecstatic state is going to be used by dance music
producers... just like how sub-bass frequencies feel really good bouncing off your body on
the dancefloor ("women love bass").
Once you get beyond why DJs love loudness,
you get into why DJs need loudness. It is for mixing purposes. It is a lot easier to mix
tracks of similar loudness than to have to compensate with the gain controls. (I know
mastering an album with different dynamics in each song can be a major headache for
mastering engineers). A great way to kill a vibe on a dancefloor is by dropping the
perceived loudness as you go from one song to another. The average DJ cranks his mixer
near the max, especially as a set goes on, so there is often very little headroom for a DJ
to increase the volume on a dynamic track.
The bottom line is that there are
different aesthetic priorities in club music... a fat sound in itself is more important
than rhythm or melody. I'm not saying this is a good thing for the creation and
dissemination of music, but if loudness keeps people dancing, then producers are going to
maximize.
--Alan
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Alan A
Joined: 24/12/08
Posts: 3
Loc: San Frandisco
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Here is a link to a more detailed article on the recent study between music and human
physiology.
Pretty damn interesting as it injects a little more "science" into
what we generally consider "art."
Cardiac rhythms synchronize with music
http://www.theheart.org/article/982997.do
-A
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James Percival
Joined: 05/05/07
Posts: 383
Loc: Oxford
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Quote Alan A:
A great way to kill
a vibe on a dancefloor is by dropping the perceived loudness as you go from one song to
another. The average DJ cranks his mixer near the max, especially as a set goes on, so
there is often very little headroom for a DJ to increase the volume on a dynamic track.
Brings to mind a live sound gig I did
a few years ago. As well as live bands, there was a DJ for this gig. It so happened that
we were working with a Yamaha digital desk for FOH. With the analogue input gain pots on
their lowest setting and with the pad engaged on our desk, the DJ continued to feed us a
signal so hot that not only did it sound like a pile of s...te but when the peaks were
really crammed up, the A/D converter decided it had had enough so all that was heard was
silence! Ahhh, blissful silence...
I'd say an even bigger way "to kill a vibe
on a dancefloor" is for the music to suddenly cut out. You'd probably look like a bit of a
noob!
It's really stupid to intentionally overload line-level analogue
stages. If you need more volume, buy higher-rated speakers and power amps and more of
them!
--------------------
James Percival
Ondes Audio
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Ian Shepherd
Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 130
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Quote Alan A:
A great way to kill
a vibe on a dancefloor is by dropping the perceived loudness as you go from one song to
another. The average DJ cranks his mixer near the max, especially as a set goes on, so
there is often very little headroom for a DJ to increase the volume on a dynamic track.
A better solution is to
NOT crank the mixer to the max (where it will add distortion and sound even worse) but to
turn the amps up a little so there's some headroom for you to boost quieter tracks if you
need to.
Quote:
The bottom line is that there are different aesthetic priorities in club music...
a fat sound in itself is more important than rhythm or melody. I'm not saying this is a
good thing for the creation and dissemination of music, but if loudness keeps people
dancing, then producers are going to maximize.
Loudness is all about contrast. Without quiet, there can be no
loud. (Which is why dance tracks regularly drop everything out and then have it come
crashing back in again !)
By reducing the dynamic range unnecessarily, the
music is made quieter but at a higher average level. Beyond a certain point, it will crush
out everything that made the music danceable in the first place. Ultimately people will
enjoy it less and buy it less - *especially* women, who are more sensitive to distortion
than men.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of loudness, compression and distortion - but only when it's done well, and serves the
music.
Louder is better, but too loud is worse (TM)
Ian
--------------------
SRT - Sound Recording Technology
Edited by Ian Shepherd (06/07/09 04:50 PM)
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Chaconne
Joined: 21/02/05
Posts: 375
Loc: Oxford
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((("Ultimately people will enjoy it less and buy it less - *especially* women"
Is this some kind of 'fact'? )))
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Ian Shepherd
Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 130
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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No, but there are studios showing that women will switch off highly compressed commercial
radio stations sooner than men, for example.
Nowadays the CDs themselves sound
like they've already been through an Optimod before they even hit the broadcast
compression, so it seems reasonable to assume that women will dislike the sound of those,
as well. And if something fatigues you and makes you want to listen to it less, surely
you're less likely to buy it, too ?
Ian
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SRT - Sound Recording Technology
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onesecondglance
Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Reading, UK
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Quote Ian Shepherd:
No, but there
are studios showing that women will switch off highly compressed commercial radio
stations sooner than men, for example.
studies?
could you link to those, Ian? the methodology
would have to be extremely sound to avoid proving that women actually disliked compression
rather than the content played by those more compressed stations.
--------------------
random thoughts about the world, digested into bitesize bloggy chunks
doubledotdash!? collective - hear tunes!
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Chaconne
Joined: 21/02/05
Posts: 375
Loc: Oxford
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Its a shame such nonesense has crept in here.
I work with a couple of female
producers who thought this odd - after all these are assumptions about thier 'tastes'.
Anyhow i'll eat humble pie in the face of a link - and sound science.
Whatever.
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Martin Walker
Watcher Of The Skies
Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 10824
Loc: Cornwall, UK
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Yes, come on Ian - we want a link to some research!
Martin
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YewTreeMagic
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~Paul
Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1233
Loc: South Herts/North London
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Quote ~Paul:
Is it doing a
similar kind of job to Audioleak? Although I'd guess this is what the offline version
does..
Bueller?
--------------------
Sound On Sound DIY forum. Not just about how to fix your broken tat!
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tomafd
Joined: 03/10/05
Posts: 2545
Loc: uk
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Quote Ian Shepherd:
- Or, how not
to smash it hell :-)
Many of you probably already know about this, but just in
case - a new, free plugin has been released which gives you instant, accurate
feedback telling you how squashed your mix is, regardless of the overall level.
It's an incredibly useful tool, and I think everyone should have it and use it !
So much so that I wrote a blog post about it:
The TT Dynamic Range Meter
- or here's a direct link, if
you prefer:
Pleasurize Music - Dynamic Range Meter Download
The
creators of the plugin are on a mission to end the Loudness Wars, and I for one am backing their efforts all the
way.
Cheers,
Ian
Elemental (now Roger Nichols) supplied much the same thing
as part of their Finis limiter software, so I'm sorted ...
Yup, DJs may need
loud mixes but for anything that isn't dance music overloud mixes are just a pain in the
brain.
--------------------
sod this I'm off to the allotment... www.anotherfineday.co.uk
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SafeandSound123
Joined: 23/03/08
Posts: 82
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In direct response to the thread title I would suggest :
Not letting there be
more than 2-3dB of gain reduction
on any compressor in your mix, especially (if
present) the one on the master buss.
Compressors do not always make things
sound better, that is seriously worth thinking about.
cheers
--------------------
Low cost, professional mastering :
SafeandSoundMastering
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Korff
Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 921
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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Quote Alan A:
The average DJ
cranks his mixer near the max, especially as a set goes on, so there is often very little
headroom for a DJ to increase the volume on a dynamic track.
That is no one's fault but the DJ's!
I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you Alan - though maybe coming from a
jungle/drum & bass angle, it might be different (maybe!) But please hear me out...
There are fewer better places to observe the fickleness of fashions than in dance
music - and this includes the tendency of producers to produce and process their tracks in
similar ways.
Try mixing an old V Records tune into/out of a Pendulum track and
you'll see what I mean. The tempos will be the same, and loosely speaking they're in the
same genre, but they just won't 'work' together, because one of them has dynamic range in
buckets (say, a '95 Size/Krust/Die tune), and the other one (anything by P*endulum) is
crushed to buggery - to the point where the bass drum is actually quieter than the
bleedin' hi-hats! To be honest, that's almost certainly a fashion thing. It just seems to
be 'the done thing' at the moment (unfortunately, in my opinion).
If a club's
system is worth its weight in salt though, then all other factors being equal (including
perceived loudness!), I know which one I'd prefer to hear on a night out.
I'm
also not too sure about loud records being easier to mix... Personally, I like to hear a
hat or a ride in my cans, so I know what tempo the song is at, rather than hearing a vague
ducking effect and having to guess when the *actual* beat happened!
Cheers,
Chris
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funkymonkey
Joined: 07/06/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Edinburgh, UK
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Just a quick note - the TT Dynamic Range plugin / software is no longer free  - it requires a 'donation' of $30 per year. Ok, it's not much, but there
you go.
--------------------
MacBook, Logic 8, headphones, too many ideas...
www.daniellurcock.co.uk / www.mankind-nil.co.uk
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