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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance!
      #1008682 - 16/09/12 01:08 PM
I just managed to get my Sonar VS100 working with Windows 8 (an inf file tweak sorts any driver issues)and I am astounded by it's new efficiency! I am getting the lowest buffer setting on the Asio driver giving me a 7ms round trip in Sonar X1 and it's rock solid. The lowest before, in win 7 was 11. Strange thing is the dpc latency checker is showing 1000ms but doesn't move either way regardless of how I push the pc. Looks like they may have some other way of doing things on this front. any way no pops no clicks and the lowest latency i have ever has on the VS100, cant be bad eh?

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robinv



Joined: 31/08/04
Posts: 733
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1008751 - 17/09/12 09:21 AM
Nice one - always warms my heart to hear of someone having a positive time

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Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on


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4TrackMadman
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Posts: 1716
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1008752 - 17/09/12 09:31 AM
Just considering what I have to do to get up to date on my plugins and virtual instruments makes me stick with what I have. Glad you're having a positive experience. I usually give Windows at least a year to sort out their bugs before I move my main studio PC to a new OS.

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The Elf
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Posts: 9148
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Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: 4TrackMadman]
      #1008757 - 17/09/12 09:40 AM
^ +1!!

I'm sorting out a new new PC for the big studio right now. No way am I taking a risk with Win8 at this point!

But I'm glad your experiences are positive and hopefully it bodes well for those of us who make the leap after you guys have ironed out the wrinkles for us!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1008765 - 17/09/12 09:56 AM
Apart from the Metro interface which is kind of stuck on but ignorable. The rest feels like a souped up windows 7. I reckon they've just tidied and tightened up the code, a kind of windows 7 sp1. Word is it's going to have a very cheap initial pricing too.

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Edited by Shambolic Charm (17/09/12 09:58 AM)


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Pete Kaine
Scan Computers


Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 3497
Loc: Manchester
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1008782 - 17/09/12 11:47 AM
Quote Shambolic Charm:

Apart from the Metro interface which is kind of stuck on but ignorable. The rest feels like a souped up windows 7. I reckon they've just tidied and tightened up the code, a kind of windows 7 sp1. Word is it's going to have a very cheap initial pricing too.




£25 right now if you have a xp/vista/win7 key already. I'm tempted to upgrade my old Xp boxes to it and then back down to Win7 using downgrade rights!

Win8 testing itself for me is looking quite good on the old DPC scores, with my X79 test rig giving me a nice stable 9ms... except for the blasted 1000ms spike every 30 seconds which I can't seem to shift, whatever I try. Hopefully the next round of drivers should nail it before it gets to market mind.

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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011446 - 03/10/12 02:31 PM
What are you using to test the DPC? I have tried windows 8 on 3 different PCs now and always DPC latency checker shows a stable 1000ms. Which seems like a lot but doesn't impact at all on the soundcard, no glitching or pops at all but nothing seems to bring that latency down or up by much for that matter. I was assuming they had a different kind of buffering system but you say you are getting 9ms?

...ahhh found this on the sycon site
"Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8 which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished."

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Edited by Shambolic Charm (03/10/12 02:34 PM)


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Pete Kaine
Scan Computers


Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 3497
Loc: Manchester
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011480 - 03/10/12 04:10 PM
Yeah, I'd clocked that too recently and testing currently is sat on hold until someone writes an app that is a bit more ready for win 8. In real terms I've not had any random drop outs in use but I've still not spent more than a few hours poking around under the hood at this point.

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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 893
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Pete Kaine]
      #1011496 - 03/10/12 04:59 PM
Quote Pete Kaine:

Yeah, I'd clocked that too recently and testing currently is sat on hold until someone writes an app that is a bit more ready for win 8. In real terms I've not had any random drop outs in use but I've still not spent more than a few hours poking around under the hood at this point.




Maybe try LatencyMon?

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_whatsnew


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TAFKAT
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Joined: 08/01/03
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Loc: Australia
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011539 - 03/10/12 09:07 PM
In recent testing Win8 did not bring any performance improvement over Win7 in regards to DAW's, has a new FW stack that is already causing issues with numerous interfaces , copy protection from Waves is not working, iLok has issues as well.

Tested both SONAR and Cubase across a range of interfaces.

No matter how cheap its going to be , anyone currently on a working and stable Win7 configuration will not gain anything , except Metro if thats your thang , and potentially go backwards.

--------------------
AAVIM Technology
DAWbench.com


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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011544 - 03/10/12 09:42 PM
Cakewalk are very impressed

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications/


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Pete Kaine
Scan Computers


Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 3497
Loc: Manchester
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Goddard]
      #1011586 - 04/10/12 08:45 AM
Quote Goddard:


http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_whatsnew




Hadn't realized it been updated!

Earlier versions used to give me all sorts of false positives regarding the page fault test so it's one of those I don't tend to pull out too often, but I'll take a look at the new one.

--------------------
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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
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Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011588 - 04/10/12 08:48 AM
Quote Shambolic Charm:

Cakewalk are very impressed

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applic ations




But I seem to remember Cakewalk being really impressed with Windows Vista as well, and few other people seemed to share their enthusiasm


Martin

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YewTreeMagic


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TAFKAT
member


Joined: 08/01/03
Posts: 325
Loc: Australia
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #1011603 - 04/10/12 10:01 AM




--------------------
AAVIM Technology
DAWbench.com


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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011608 - 04/10/12 10:25 AM
Have you got a link to these results on your site? I had a look but can't see them there. I am interested in looking at the details and what they mean.I don't know what these figures are. As I said before, I can get my VS100 driver latency much lower with greater stability on windows 8. That's my actual experience, so I am wondering what is making the difference.

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robinv



Joined: 31/08/04
Posts: 733
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011636 - 04/10/12 12:01 PM
Quote Shambolic Charm:

That's my actual experience, so I am wondering what is making the difference.




It would be your positive aura - computer OS's are very susceptible to the emotional state of the user.

--------------------
Molten Music Technology - Computers for doing music on


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 893
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Pete Kaine]
      #1011651 - 04/10/12 01:02 PM
Quote Pete Kaine:

Quote Goddard:


http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_whatsnew




Hadn't realized it been updated!

Earlier versions used to give me all sorts of false positives regarding the page fault test so it's one of those I don't tend to pull out too often, but I'll take a look at the new one.




You may want to peruse the FAQ. And see the Technical Info also re disabling certain options, esp. "Measure latency by means of a kernel timer":

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_technical


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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: robinv]
      #1011674 - 04/10/12 02:30 PM
Quote robinv:

Quote Shambolic Charm:

That's my actual experience, so I am wondering what is making the difference.




It would be your positive aura - computer OS's are very susceptible to the emotional state of the user.




Well I've had a really bad day and I've just checked the latency of my VS100 and it's much the same - I can't understand it!!!

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TAFKAT
member


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Posts: 325
Loc: Australia
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011743 - 04/10/12 08:24 PM
Quote Shambolic Charm:

Have you got a link to these results on your site? I had a look but can't see them there. I am interested in looking at the details and what they mean.I don't know what these figures are. As I said before, I can get my VS100 driver latency much lower with greater stability on windows 8. That's my actual experience, so I am wondering what is making the difference.




I haven't uploaded any Win8 reports/results at DAWbench simply because there isn't anything to report as yet past the performance is the same ( with some interfaces ) and I hate Metro... :-)

The charts above are the results using the DAWbench reference benchmarks using various plugins and Kontakt 4, details are in the bottom of the tables , quite simply, I could not duplicate Cakewalks performance claims.

The initial testing was done in response to not only Cakewalks blog but also some testing done by a member at another forum that showed a significant drop in performance using Cubase and various interfaces. Its not fair to link to that other forum, but I'll say it starts with a G and the thread will be very easy to find by doing a search on - " Windows 7 v Windows 8, DAWbench "

I'm sure Cakewalk will just dismiss my results and continue to peddle their internal developer only performance meter, it does after all look very impressive... :-)

FWIW: had a chat to my local M.S distro, Win7 will be available concurrently with Win8, there is no plan to cull it at the OEM level as it would be suicidal at the corporate level( very smart IMO ) , I am hoping to leap frog it entirely !!!

V.C

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AAVIM Technology
DAWbench.com


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Ray Elder



Joined: 14/06/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Kalamata, Greece
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011807 - 05/10/12 06:44 AM
I am sorry to be a bit stupid and behind everyone else, but can anyone tell me where to get windows 8 for the £25 price quoted please? I have all my old XP/VISTA/Win7 keys still and would love to try out this OS, especially as I have to reformat and set up my computer in the next week or so.

Thank you in anticipation

ray

--------------------
Ray Elder


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Pete Kaine
Scan Computers


Joined: 10/07/03
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Loc: Manchester
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Ray Elder]
      #1011836 - 05/10/12 09:02 AM
Ray - https://windowsupgradeoffer.com/

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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 945
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1011838 - 05/10/12 09:04 AM
This blog may be of interest to some on this thread

http://windowslatency.blogspot.co.uk/

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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1798
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #1011840 - 05/10/12 09:12 AM
Quote Martin Walker:

Quote Shambolic Charm:

Cakewalk are very impressed

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-pro...




But I seem to remember Cakewalk being really impressed with Windows Vista as well, and few other people seemed to share their enthusiasm


Martin




That's a good point well made, each and every upgrade/update is touted as a positive life changing 'experience' as I know to my cost!

Oneworld:no longer the neophile am I


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
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Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1011906 - 05/10/12 12:43 PM
Quote OneWorld:

...each and every upgrade/update is touted as a positive life changing 'experience' as I know to my cost!





And equally, each is criticised as an engine of sabotage, dooming us to the End Of Computer Music As We Know It.

Somehow, we're all still making music, very few of us are using Windows 98 (that was the first one that vaguely worked, I think? :-)


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


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Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1011913 - 05/10/12 01:01 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Somehow, we're all still making music, very few of us are using Windows 98 (that was the first one that vaguely worked, I think? :-)




Yep, that was the one, although I personally started on DOS


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1798
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1011955 - 05/10/12 04:07 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Quote OneWorld:

...each and every upgrade/update is touted as a positive life changing 'experience' as I know to my cost!





And equally, each is criticised as an engine of sabotage, dooming us to the End Of Computer Music As We Know It.

Somehow, we're all still making music, very few of us are using Windows 98 (that was the first one that vaguely worked, I think? :-)




I don't think I'd let an OS get to me that much!


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 893
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #1012025 - 05/10/12 09:06 PM
Quote Martin Walker:

Quote Exalted Wombat:

Somehow, we're all still making music, very few of us are using Windows 98 (that was the first one that vaguely worked, I think? :-)




Yep, that was the one, although I personally started on DOS




Heheh, still making music here using Win98 (to run an Oasys PCI).

Yeah, Win98 was a good one (especially after the Celeron 300A arrived). ASIO and WDM too. And USB that worked mostly.

Although, thinking back, Win 95b/OSR2 actually worked pretty well for audio too, once busmastering IDE chipset support and drivers and UDMA drives came along.

Win 3.1x (and DOS, for that matter) had been pretty much limited to outboard sound editing, MIDI sequencing and syncing with tape, digitally recording and editing mixdowns from tape, basic sampling and burning CDs, and really required SCSI (if not SCSI RAID 0) for audio. But things became really interesting for multitrack audio on PCs with OSR2 and BM-IDE, and then got even better (and more stable, mostly) with 98.

Ouch, memory hurts!


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JJGR
new member


Joined: 02/09/03
Posts: 1
Re: Windows 8 gives lower latency and more stable performance! new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1026103 - 28/12/12 04:47 PM
I have upgraded to Windows 8 and am using Sonar x2a. I haven't used it for many hours yet but can say that, so far, the results sre good and I now can add more plugins and tracks before running out of bandwidth as compared to with Windows 7. As well, the system seems more stable.

I have done some cleaning up of the Metro interface by removing all the multimedia and email apps. and did some optimisations that I had done with Windows 7.

To be on the safe side, I used a different disk, copied the windows 7 image to it and did the upgrade on that disk. I kept my original disk with Windows 7 aside in case I needed to revert.

JJGR


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