Its official now - W8 is here, and love or hate Windows, the truth is that there are only 2 real choices for software musos (ok Linux supporters..3..but not really)

The one aspect I look fwd to seeing develop is how DAW & Plug-in developers will take to the fact that almost all PC will have touch-screen ability at some point.

It was possible to use touch interface with W7, and there are still many affordable options - take the Dell Inspiron One



But door has, I believe, been kicked wide open..so lets see what rolls in..

The aspect that does bother me though, is software bloat. I remember many forum discussion and advice about stripping WXP functions to the bare necessity and then along comes Vista and W7.
I'm using W7 - a stock std installation and am genuinely very happy with overall performance. Well, up until a week ago when the OCT updates messed my machine up ...BIOS update...

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Give it a wide berth until people with nothing better to do that mess about with operating systems have made sure its 100% working with everything. Windows 7 is just fine for audio. If Windows 8 brings something to the table, we are sure to hear about it sooner rather than later.

Reinstalling on a PC is a major operation so it had better be worth doing. I'd wait until you next need to upgrade the motherboard + hard drive before considering it.

I've just finished upgrading my laptop.
Went from Win 7 Pro 64Bit to Win 8 Pro 64Bit.
I didn't do an upgrade, I did a fresh install.

Easy. 100% working. Just finished installing my plugins and software libraries.
I'm using Reaper 64Bit.
Kontakt 5 player with Various instruments.
Some waves plugins, some free ones, some voxengo and sonnox plugins etc
Finale 2012 with Garritan sound library.
Garritan personal orchestra.
Arturia Laboratory controller and sound library.
Tascam US-800 interface with external converters.

All installed and setup without a hitch.

Tweaked the usual things within Windows, although it doesn't need the speed boost.
I get from power button press to logged in within 10 seconds (If I can type the password fast enough).
Fully shut down in around 3-5 seconds.

I have an i7 Processor and 16GB RAM. Samsung 830 SSD for OS and a normal 5400rpm drive for Data.

Basically if you have software/drivers and it works in Windows 7 it will work in Windows 8.
I've been using it for ages at work and it seems to be rock solid.
I'll see how a day of recording goes tomorrow but initial installs and tests look perfect.

Quote HollowAxis:

---

I've just finished upgrading my laptop.
Went from Win 7 Pro 64Bit to Win 8 Pro 64Bit.
I didn't do an upgrade, I did a fresh install.

Easy. 100% working. Just finished installing my plugins and software libraries.
I'm using Reaper 64Bit.
Kontakt 5 player with Various instruments.
Some waves plugins, some free ones, some voxengo and sonnox plugins etc
Finale 2012 with Garritan sound library.
Garritan personal orchestra.
Arturia Laboratory controller and sound library.
Tascam US-800 interface with external converters.

All installed and setup without a hitch.

Tweaked the usual things within Windows, although it doesn't need the speed boost.
I get from power button press to logged in within 10 seconds (If I can type the password fast enough).
Fully shut down in around 3-5 seconds.

I have an i7 Processor and 16GB RAM. Samsung 830 SSD for OS and a normal 5400rpm drive for Data.

Basically if you have software/drivers and it works in Windows 7 it will work in Windows 8.
I've been using it for ages at work and it seems to be rock solid.
I'll see how a day of recording goes tomorrow but initial installs and tests look perfect.

---

I'm not sure the hard slog of reinstalling, reauthorising and setting up is worth the 2 seconds shorter boot time. Even if I used the computer every single day it would only save 10 minutes a year. And the touchscreen interface looks a bit stupid, and I don't have a windows touchscreen. Does it work with an iPad?

I wasn't just after the performance boost. It does lots of other things that I've come to like.
It runs Hyper-V natively now, I like the apps, I can link my 'Microsoft' account to it (Formerly hotmail). It interfaces brilliantly with MS Exchange, the surface tablet and windows phones.

I don't have an iPad to try it with, but as I said from what I've tried every bit of software I want to use works and I get the added bits of new Windows, a performance boost etc.
I don't use the touch, I have a touch screen at work and I don't use it there either. No point.

But yeah, overall, if we are talking ONLY audio or recording... then no, no massive reason to move to it. If you also do other things with your machines then I think it is a substantial upgrade.

Edited by HollowAxis (26/10/12 11:42 PM)

Great news HollowAxis... excellent prospects for the future then...

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote johnny h:

---

Does it work with an iPad?

---

...there's something truly sad about a comment like that..

Moving on... the promised integration between W8 capable devices & PCs implies that I should be able use my Cubase (or Steinberg derivatives) installation on either the new Windows tablet and my PCs.

Being able to edit midi and audio by simply touching the waveform, IMHO opens up some exciting workflow aspects...

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote HollowAxis:

---

I've just finished upgrading my laptop.

I'm using Reaper 64Bit.


All installed and setup without a hitch.

---

Question.. does Reaper support any TOUCH facilities... mixer sliders for example would be a nice start.

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote johnny h:

---

Reinstalling on a PC is a major operation so it had better be worth doing. I'd wait until you next need to upgrade the motherboard + hard drive before considering it.

---

Actually the answer is ..it depends..

- if you have W7 Ultimate it comes with a powerful backup and restore facility - much better than old XP. It allowed me to restore my machine in minutes..10s of minutes, but minutes none the less..
- obviously I did have to have a complete image backed-up and ready to go... old saying: 2 kinds of people, those with back-ups and those with computer crashes...
- Based on my experience with MACOSX and recovery and re-installation ...I'd say it was very similar.

- If one is talking about moving programs written for one OS version and then move to a newer version, obviously the extent of code change required will be the determining factor.. this I imagine true for all situations...Windows, Linux, MACOS, Android...

Quote C.LYDE:

---

Question.. does Reaper support any TOUCH facilities... mixer sliders for example would be a nice start.

---

Software doesn't have to implement support for touching (except for gestures) - dragging and tapping are seen as normal mouse events by legacy applications.
You can use Windows 7 with a touch screen, and Reaper's (and any other DAW's) mixer sliders (and other controls) works straight out of the box!

In practice its not all that sweet: current touch screens have horrible latencies while registering touch events - the usability is not quite good enough for any serious real time work.
(I'm not sure about the latencies of some high end touch screens though...)

Quote C.LYDE:

---

Quote johnny h:

---

Does it work with an iPad?

---

...there's something truly sad about a comment like that..

Moving on... the promised integration between W8 capable devices & PCs implies that I should be able use my Cubase (or Steinberg derivatives) installation on either the new Windows tablet and my PCs.

Being able to edit midi and audio by simply touching the waveform, IMHO opens up some exciting workflow aspects...

---

iPads already work just fine with TouchOSC and Touchable on the PC, so its not like its a different universe. I think it would suit Microsoft very well to make the iPad touch interface work with Windows 8, considering how many people already have one sitting around. Microsoft will never be cool but if they can make Windows 8 work perfectly with everything, add on legacy compatibility, hardware choice + office then they've got a good chance of surviving in the long term.

Quote johnny h:

---

Microsoft will never be cool but if they can make Windows 8 work perfectly with everything, add on legacy compatibility, hardware choice + office then they've got a good chance of surviving in the long term.

---

They made more money than ever last year (70 billion) so I'm not sure survival is a huge issue...as for being cool I'll leave the judgement to the fashion minded computer consumers.

I suspect for most DAW users win 8 will have a few useful features but I'm not rushing to upgrade, win 7 is still performing admirably for me.

--------------------
http://www.williammorrismusic.com

This is one of several clips... and this was done with 'older tech'..future is looking brighter already..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEkqr8punns

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote johnny h:

---

I think it would suit Microsoft very well to make the iPad touch interface work with Windows 8, considering how many people already have one sitting around.

---

Depends in which universe your ship is orbiting...in mine, my fellow aliens all use Samsung tablets with Android... so shall we petition for Microsoft to heed our demand... or just allow MS to do what any other business does ..follow its own path, since Apple have still to introduce the concept of 'touchscreen' to their Intel based machines, your know..PCs..

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

My copy of Win8 in the post from Amazon... am not planning to actually rebuild my PC with it yet though, as I'd probably need a week off work to do it properly. Maybe over the Xmas hols I'll get round to it... any critical fixes should be ironed out by then too.

But it will be great to get rid of that f*cking Start Menu

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I just upgraded my Win8 beta (Which I was quite happy with)to Win 8 pro... BSOD every where:-(

Quote C.LYDE:

---

Quote johnny h:

---

I think it would suit Microsoft very well to make the iPad touch interface work with Windows 8, considering how many people already have one sitting around.

---

Depends in which universe your ship is orbiting...in mine, my fellow aliens all use Samsung tablets with Android...

---

Oh really, found a use for them have you? The iPad is good for planes and has some really cool apps like the Korg, Yamaha, Moog etc. The androids are the same without these great apps, which completely defeats the point of it! Email and browsing works but is hugely inferior to my macbook pro, so why use it?

Quote:

---

so shall we petition for Microsoft to heed our demand... or just allow MS to do what any other business does ..follow its own path, since Apple have still to introduce the concept of 'touchscreen' to their Intel based machines, your know..PCs..

---

It doesn't affect me at all, Windows 8 looks like its going to be a huge muddle and certainly a waste of (my) time for DAW use at this stage. As I'm not a teenager anymore I won't find too much use for hotmail integration and the crazy dual personality tablet/desktop interface mess I can really live without

We need to allow for Microsoft's policy on beta testing to finish first. For those that are not aware of this policy, it's actually quite simple:

Let the public find the bugs and we'll spend 7 years fixing them in acre eating updates and then we'll release Windows X.

It just took me 5 weeks to tweak Win 7 to do the sh1t it's meant to and still, after how many years, we are suffering with the inane 'permissions' and no 'mix stereo' in the System Sound.

I now have to support a friend who has updated his system with a new PC and Win 7. This is what friends are for. He was there for me when I nearly bladed my wrists on several occasion with highly complex things like getting your sound card to work with Win Int SC and maybe, just maybe, record in stereo....

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Android at least lets you get photos movies and files in and out of the machine without asking permission from iTunes. I have 2 iPads both redundant since I got an Android. Sod the Korg, it was useless anyway. Someone told me you can just plug the iPad in and see the folder open up, and drag and drop files in and out just the same. Can you hell! In a fit of Pique, my Mac's dont even see the Androids, I suppose they are far too busy trying to figure out how to make iTunes control the i/o process. Horlicks to iPads. Anyone want one for free?

--------------------
The only excuse we have for making music in the first place is to make it differently..vis-a-vis our own difference (Glenn Gould)

I would recommend anyone spending the £24.99 to buy Windows 8 Pro direct from Microsofts web site regardless of whether you intend using it in the near future or not.

I've downloaded it, I've no intention of using it for a good few months, possibly until SP1 comes out, but at that price (which ends in January I think) it seems to me a good gamble to take that it could become a good op system.

I own an ipad, the only reason I gave my Galaxy Tablet to my daughter and purchased the ipad was because of the music apps, Apples Core Audio is superb for this and due to the way Android does it's audio, it simply cant complete.

For everything else I was 100% happy with my Android.

BUT, if I was looking in 6 months time and I could get a Windows tablet where I could run the same software I run on my PC on it (not saying I could, I'm saying if I could), I could run all my soft synths on my tablet, even maybe cubase etc, then, I can see many many many people loving this and also loving that when they switch from their Tablet to their PC, the interface is virtually the same.

With newer laptops coming out with touch screen capabilities, this becomes even more of a good thing.

So I can see how this could take off in a huge way.

But I have two large monitors a good two feet away from my face on my high powered desktop and I wouldn't want a touch screen on it even if it was possible, so for me, all the touch screen like stuff is redundant.

So it could catch on big time, or it could bomb. But at £25 I'm willing to buy now and take the gamble.

Personally I have zero loyalty to any brand and while have an Ipad purely for my music use, love Android, love Linux and have never ever had any problems with Windows 7

Quote Ojustaboo:

---

I would recommend anyone spending the £24.99 to buy Windows 8 Pro direct from Microsofts web site regardless of whether you intend using it in the near future or not.

---

I had to buy it from Amazon last week, cos the Microsoft Store just kept giving error messages about 3 days in a row. Encouraging

I don't really get all these moaning minnies who complain about stuff on their computer not working. It's like saying "OMG I BOUGHT A CAR, I HAD TO TAKE IT TO THE GARAGE COS SUMMAT BROKE FFS I MEAN SOMETHING ABOUT 'CHANGING A TYRE' OR SOMETHING ARRRRRRGH"

Jeez, man-up a little, people

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote Howdy Doody Time:

---

Android at least lets you get photos movies and files in and out of the machine without asking permission from iTunes. I have 2 iPads both redundant since I got an Android. Sod the Korg, it was useless anyway. Someone told me you can just plug the iPad in and see the folder open up, and drag and drop files in and out just the same. Can you hell! In a fit of Pique, my Mac's dont even see the Androids, I suppose they are far too busy trying to figure out how to make iTunes control the i/o process. Horlicks to iPads. Anyone want one for free?

---

Sure, PM me. I will take it off your hands

I still find tablets a hugely frustrating experience, apart from a few killer music apps. Which Android don't have. For taking on a plane, it makes little difference what badge you have on the back but apart from that, I really can't fathom why any musician would choose the android over the iOS!

The iPad is worth the asking price for the Yamaha iTNR alone. It really is that good. Typing, internet, email ... just use a laptop!

After a quick google, It turns out it was Avast free causing the BSOD issues.. I uninstalled and all seems ok now. )

Quote johnny h:

---

Oh really, found a use for them have you? The iPad is good for planes and has some really cool apps like the Korg, Yamaha, Moog etc. The androids are the same without these great apps, which completely defeats the point of it! Email and browsing works but is hugely inferior to my macbook pro, so why use it?

---

Fortunately I own both -- and the MACs only advantage is that it has a keyboard.!.

My musical use for portable machines is limited to basically a song binder for the live sets so the grab and page quick response of my Note II with its quad-core, 2Gb Ram...limitless SDD rawks for song writing the stylus is starting to come into its own.. but it does require some practise on my part... other than that, the low cost and free apps for the kids which keep them entertained for days on end... leaving me free to make more music...

The one bit that puzzles me about iPad fanbois is the tolerance to the SDD limitation - why live with something like that or pay excessive to gain additional 16Gb...??

For DAWs - I've traditionally stuck to desktops and definitely always Microsoft OS - strangely over the years I've read about the horrors experienced by other users... but simply followed good practise and have enjoyed relative pain free recordings.

Quote johnny h:

---

It doesn't affect me at all, Windows 8 looks like its going to be a huge muddle and certainly a waste of (my) time for DAW use at this stage. As I'm not a teenager anymore I won't find too much use for hotmail integration and the crazy dual personality tablet/desktop interface mess I can really live without

---

Well, I'm certainly not a teenager, but I believe I know how to wield technology to achieve the best that the engineering has to offer without buying into hype and getting sucked into a one-size-fits all mentality.... but that's just me

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote feline1:

---

I don't really get all these moaning minnies who complain about stuff on their computer not working. It's like saying "OMG I BOUGHT A CAR, I HAD TO TAKE IT TO THE GARAGE COS SUMMAT BROKE FFS I MEAN SOMETHING ABOUT 'CHANGING A TYRE' OR SOMETHING ARRRRRRGH"

Jeez, man-up a little, people

---

Amen... on a non-musical note, spent some time chatting to a colleague would hates MS so much that he religiously wipes his machines and installs Linux, and then spends an age configuring the machine to do exactly that which most of us would have running within 5 minutes on well-maintained MS PC. doh

--------------------
C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Quote C.LYDE:

---

Quote johnny h:

---

Oh really, found a use for them have you? The iPad is good for planes and has some really cool apps like the Korg, Yamaha, Moog etc. The androids are the same without these great apps, which completely defeats the point of it! Email and browsing works but is hugely inferior to my macbook pro, so why use it?

---

Fortunately I own both -- and the MACs only advantage is that it has a keyboard.!.

---

If you can type quickly (ie with more than one finger) then its a pretty significant advantage.

Clyde... Any good music apps on Android? I mean, have you tried GarageBand on the iPad? Anything equivalent to that?

Last time I looked (a long time ago, admittedly) there was absolutely no good music apps on Android. And there are lots for iPad.

Agreed about iTunes. It is the work of Satan, and not in a good way!

--------------------
Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Through our licensing program I had access to the final version before it was released. I installed Win8 Pro as a secondary boot on a work computer. The first problem I ran into is a lack of a driver for the video card. Played with it for a while and got frustrated trying to make it work like Win 7. I wanted to know where everything is and I wanted to know immediately.

This morning I tried again with a much more relaxed attitude and liked it a lot. Tiles for weather, Facebook, etc are really nice for a home use. I will NOT let my tech install this on office computers. All I need it 250 clinical computers loaded with apps.

Has anyone trid Ableton Live on Win 8? I'm wondering how will a touch screen will work triggering multiple loops.

Quote HollowAxis:

---

I've just finished upgrading my laptop.
Went from Win 7 Pro 64Bit to Win 8 Pro 64Bit.

---

Why?

(Serious question)

Well its been a looong time since I've been on this forum but I just thought I would let everyone know that after having great result with the consumer preview (I posted a video about it here: http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2012/7/31/windows-... ) I've had a very smooth upgrade to Win 8 Pro on my old faithful Intel Core 2 Quad 6600 based machine running Pro Tools HD3 Accel 10.3.2 along with many of the most well know plugins.
No major problems that doing all the windows updates and pace interlock/ilok driver updates didn't solve.
Its very fast and efficient I'm very impressed, This is no vista experience it really is good !

*EDIT*
I would also like to point out a massive misconception or misinterpretation (not really sure of the right word here) that people have about Win 8 which is mainly due to Microsoft's. advertising model.
Its not all about a touch interface, in fact the only thing that actually lends itself to using a touch screen is the start page (the artist formerly known as "Metro") once you close that with a single click on the desktop tile you are back into the same way of using windows that we have grown used to all except the presence of a start button on your taskbar.
Yes you have to learn a new way to get around the lack of a start menu,
I just place icons for my apps on the desktop just like I always have with any version of windows crazy huh

Neil

--------------------
The Windows Guy at www.pro-tools-expert.com

Edited by Neil Hester (05/11/12 11:15 PM)

Quote Neil Hester:

---

Yes you have to learn a new way to get around the lack of a start menu,
I just place icons for my apps on the desktop just like I always have with any version of windows

---

That's the bit I couldn't work out while playing with the preview version of Windows 8. Looking through my Start Menu, there are loads of seldom-needed programs that I wouldn't want cluttering my Desktop. Would I have to navigate to the exe files individually? Or manually create my own Start folder on the Desktop with shortcuts to absolutely everything? There must be a better way?

Quote Exalted Wombat:

---

That's the bit I couldn't work out while playing with the preview version of Windows 8. Looking through my Start Menu, there are loads of seldom-needed programs that I wouldn't want cluttering my Desktop. Would I have to navigate to the exe files individually? Or manually create my own Start folder on the Desktop with shortcuts to absolutely everything? There must be a better way?

---

If you're on the desktop then put your mouse up to the top right corner to bring up the charms (or use a keyboard short cut) and click on search. At that point all your programs or Apps appear laid out across the screen a bit like an expanded start menu which you can scroll through - or you can type it's name and it'll come up. It's actually easier than messing about with scrolling through the start menu. Also when you install a regular program all the start menu items appear as tiles on the start screen which you can leave there if you like, although i've found myself deleting the unnecessary ones like Steinberg's DirectX ASIO control panel or the "get ink" link for my printer - but these are all still found under the search - apps list.

Neil hit the nail on the head really. I've been frantically trying to find a decent touch screen but after i've been using it with a mouse the touch screen is seeming more and more unnecessary - unless i'm desperate to play Angry Birds or Fruit Ninja, but that's what the Surface is for.

I've been doing a lot of performance testing and i'll be posting my results through RainUK in the next week or two, but so far it's looking really good - there's nothing to be afraid of. However, if your life depends on it then by all means wait or stick with what you have - it's only an operating system

--------------------
PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Quote Exalted Wombat:

---

There must be a better way?

---

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/



--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Scratch that!

Didn't realise they were charging now we're out of beta.

However this just pop'd up on my RSS : http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/how-to-start-menu-in-wind...

Some nice free options there.

--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Some nice free options there.

---

Is it really worth the trouble? All you're really doing is preventing yourself from learning a slightly different interface which becomes very easy very quick, and then whenever you try to access someone else's computer you end up looking like an idiot newbie stumbling around. Got to move forward man.

This bit from the link is marvellous misinformation:
"If you’re using a mouse and keyboard, and are somehow unfamiliar with the Windows key on your keyboard, reaching the Start screen from the Desktop is a two step process. And then when you get to the new Metro-ified Start screen, it might not be what you want — those live tiles are great for new and social, but those aren’t always what you are looking for."

"two steps"?? unlike the start menu where you click then hover (or click), then scroll, then hover (or click), then hover (or click) to eventually make it to the right folder to finally click on the required item. As for the live tiles not being what you were looking for - then scroll you dummy.

But you know me, both feet, into the fire

--------------------
PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Quote robinv:

---

Is it really worth the trouble? All you're really doing is preventing yourself from learning a slightly different interface which becomes very easy very quick, and then whenever you try to access someone else's computer you end up looking like an idiot newbie stumbling around. Got to move forward man.

---

I'd like the option, as I'm sure any number of other people will for as long as possible.

I'm planning a Tiles8 set up on my lounge media center now with a small touch screen by my sofa as a glorified remote. It's not I don't see a use or benefits of using it in given situations, I just don't think it's the best option for every situation and it'd have been nice to been given an option out of the box to fiddle with the configuration rather than have a one size fits all solution thrust upon us.

Some of the above fix that however and I'm sure I'm not the only person who wants to tweak away some of the new layers that have appeared.

What I'm not looking forward to is upgrading my server certs using the Tiles 2012 OS... suppose I need to start looking at that shortly too.

--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote robinv:

---

Is it really worth the trouble?

---

Yes it is IMO.

I loath the interface on the XBox for the same reason. It's a dumbed-down dog's dinner. It reduces the efficiency of a well-though out desktop (yes, mine is!), severely curtails the amount of options I can quickly access, and requires too much messing around to undertake basic tasks.

I'm no Luddite, but I'll be turning off Metro the moment Win 8 arrives here in the toadstool.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Nice freebie (just spotted it was 3rd item on the Geek list):

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/features.html

I have been using this since I discovered that Win7 attempted to turn my previously organised and categorised start menu into some kind of searchable mush. Says it is Win8 compatible - haven't tried, but it has always been reliable on 7.

Bill

Edited by BillB (07/11/12 12:08 PM)

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

I'm planning a Tiles8 set up on my lounge media center now with a small touch screen by my sofa as a glorified remote.

---

Sweeeeeeeeet - but that's the whole problem at the moment, the subsidiary touch screen. A tablet sized or maybe 17" touch screen as a secondary monitor for Metro but none exist, or at least not to Win8 specification. Had a Dell 27" touch on order for a while and there's an Acer on the horizon but still 24" which are really a bit too big for the arm of your sofa

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

It's not I don't see a use or benefits of using it in given situations, I just don't think it's the best option for every situation and it'd have been nice to been given an option out of the box to fiddle with the configuration rather than have a one size fits all solution thrust upon us.

---

Yeah, i get that - but for me the start screen simply asks "what do you want to do?" and i click my desired program and i dont have to see it ever again until next boot. Although i use my computer for everything so i like to see my feeds and emails from a distance when i'm away from the desk. Of course it's annoying that the first time you audition a loop it launches xbox music full screen for you expecting you to go "wow!" but a couple of clicks brings media player back as the default player and it's same-o same-o.

Setting it up for customers - now that's going require some thought... and probably some video tutorials slapped on the start screen for them.

--------------------
PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Sorry, but I don't get all this angst over the Start Screen which is merely an application launcher after all. Nor do I understand the nostalgia for the Start Menu which at best has been a mediocre application launcher for the duration of it's lifetime on Windows. Prior to Windows 7 I'd been using third-party launchers such as Launchy and Slickrun to make up for it's deficiencies anyway, so I'm not going to get all misty eyed over its demise.

It's not as if your desktop has gone anywhere, either, so if you want to organise shortcuts on there then you still can, but the Start Screen at least provides you with more room to organise your applications the way you want than the Start Menu ever did. You can group tiles in named groups like "Music Applications" and nix all the ones you'll never need anyway by unpinning them. Outside of launching the applications you spend most of your time in, you're barely going to spend any time there anyway.

I don't see the point in trying to turn Windows 8 back into Windows 7 when the latter will remain a viable option for a very long time. My Macbook is still on Lion because Mountain Lion had nothing that I was interested in having, and I'm going to stick with Windows 7 on my other machines for the time being. However, Windows 8 seems equally usable to me but then I don't tend to freak out just because someone moved my cheese.