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AlterEcho



Joined: 26/06/05
Posts: 10
Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :)
      #1021954 - 03/12/12 03:52 AM
Hey all,
Long time reader, first time poster.
A number of years ago, I purchased quite a lot of analog/digital equipment (1997 or so). I was preparing to build a home studio when my job changed and I had to store all of my equipment. So, I never had the chance to power-on the equipment, much less use it. Now, I am back pulling my equipment out of storage and putting it all together.
My question, to you guys, is about latency and the use of guitar sims. My music is very guitar based and I rely heavily on software amp sims. Of course, I would like to monitor the modified sound while playing (real-time). I would like to use my Echo/Event Layla (just Layla, no 3g, etc..). Given that nothing else interferes with this process, will the Layla allow me to monitor the modified sound in real-time while playing?

Thanks guys and gals,
Sally


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AlterEcho



Joined: 26/06/05
Posts: 10
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1022079 - 03/12/12 05:30 PM
I forgot to mention...

The reason I am asking this question is to keep the Layla brand new and unopened/unused. If it will not fulfill my needs, then I will put it on Ebay and someone will get a great deal. And then I will purchase a RME 9632, after saving for a bit. But, if I can save some money and use the Layla, then that would be great. My music style will not be affected by the fidelity difference between the two.
So any help on the ability to monitor with effects will be most appreciated


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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3055
Loc: Norwich UK
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1022098 - 03/12/12 06:59 PM
Quote AlterEcho:

The reason I am asking this question is to keep the Layla brand new and unopened/unused. If it will not fulfill my needs, then I will put it on Ebay and someone will get a great deal.



I'd unpack it carefully, try it, and list it as mint if you don't like it. (It's over a decade old - cutting open some cellophane won't affect the resell value IMHO; about £100 judging by the last sale on eBay.)

You might want to check you can get drivers for your current PC setup first though...doubt you'll find Windows 7 64bit for instance.


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 893
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1022147 - 03/12/12 09:50 PM
Hi Sally, wise question. I'm afraid you will be disappointed at the latency when playing through guitar amp sim software with your original Layla (also known as the "Layla 20"), which ime always had pretty high latency even as the ASIO drivers were improved/updated. Here is a review of the Layla with some latency info, by Martin:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/eventlayla.694.htm

Even when playing through a real guitar amp with a speaker, there is a few ms delay between when you play a note and when you hear it from the amp, due to the distance from the speaker to your earsand the speed of sound, but as guitar players we are accustomed to that short delay as it is really not noticeable. But anything more than 10ms becomes pretty noticeable and makes playing rather more difficult.

With the Layla you can monitor your inputted "raw" guitar signal with negligible latency as you play, since the Layla is capable of directly outputting an applied input signal while also passing it into your pc. But the processed sound through your amp sim software coming back through the Layla will be significantly delayed to the point that it would be difficult for you to play "in the groove" while monitoring the delayed processed sound.

Also, as already mentioned, the Layla 20 is now a long discontinued "legacy" product and driver support ended with Win XP (and beta drivers), so it could be problematic to get it working with a newer pc. Also, few current pc motherboards offer compatible pci slots for a Layla,

So you would do better to sell off your pristine Layla for as much as it will bring, and to get a newer interface with low latency.

I had shifted my retired Layla to a Linux system for a time, as there was some Linux driver development ongoing then, although I don't know if Layla is still supported under Linux today. But perhaps someone running Linux or XP may be interested in purchasing yours. One thing to note is that there was a common problem with the Layla's power circuitry failing (bridge rectifier), which Echo were repairing for a time, although I very much doubt they still do so.

If you do opt for a new interface, you might consider an outboard guitar fx unit with USB interface for connection to your pc (and for enabling the use of fx patch editing software on your pc) which can process your guitar signal and output the processed sound with negligible delay, rather than relying upon amp/fx sim software running on your pc. Many such units are avilable. I'm using a Roland V-Studio 20 for that very purpose, with Win7.

Good luck!


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17191
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1022176 - 03/12/12 11:28 PM
Hi Sally,

Lots of helpful info there from Goddard in particular.

I can confirm that Layla 20-bit drivers are only now available for Windows XP and even then these are beta versions (i.e. no support available form the manufacturer if you run into difficulties).

By all means try this interface if you're experienced and still have a Windows XP computer, but 1999 makes this a very elderly product now


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Mr Rook



Joined: 28/09/11
Posts: 38
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1022300 - 04/12/12 01:52 PM
My Layla is a Layla 24/96 and you can get a driver for Windows 7/64bit(8.6)and you can still fit the PCI card and the latency doesn't seem to be any different from any other interface.Don't know about the 20 though.


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17191
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: Mr Rook]
      #1022467 - 05/12/12 12:17 PM
Hi Mr Rook,

That's why I said what I did in the post above yours

Here's what's available for Layla (20-bit)

Windows Me, 2000, XP 6.11 Beta download
Windows Me, 2000, XP 6.08 Beta download
Windows Me, 2000, XP 6.05 Beta download
Windows Me, 2000, XP 6.04 Beta download
Windows Me, 2000, XP 0.66 Beta download
Windows 95, 98, 98SE, Me 5.06 download
Windows 95, 98, Me 5.06 VxD download
Windows NT4 1.6.0 Beta download


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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AlterEcho



Joined: 26/06/05
Posts: 10
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1024055 - 13/12/12 05:03 AM
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my questions.

Goddard's suggestion is an excellent one...and one I hadn't considered. So, I have asked, for Christmas, a Line 6 UX2. The V Studio would be excellent, except I do not care for the Boss sound package (sorry Goddard, please do not take offense, but I have been a Line 6 fan since day one).
I used to be a hired gun for IT corporations. So, I am going to look at the driver files and see if they can be adapted to Windows 7. If so, then I will probably use the Layla. If not then I will set up a XP machine and hook it up...just to make sure it is working. Then sell it on Ebay. Then put that money towards another input device.


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 893
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1024116 - 13/12/12 02:33 PM
AlterEcho, happy to have helped, and no worries about whose gear/sounds you prefer, no connection here to any company, (besides the V-studio I use a DI/amp sim box or another outboard USB guitar fx unit or amp sims on pc or ipad as well, whatever delivers the sounds I want when I can't mic up an amp).


I do know someone who used a Line 6 interface, but afaik there are no onboard fx, all of the fx and amp sims (Podfarm) need to run (be hosted) on a computer, so it's rather different from the Roland VS in that respect, although Line 6 do offer Pod HD models with onboard fx plus mic input and USB/digital outputs, and Podfarm plug-in s/w for DAWs is also available as as separate product.

And as you may be aware, Echo do still offer (and support?) an updated (although still PCI) 3rd generation Layla, the "Layla3G" (but so far, no DAWbench results on that one, although iirc Vin was at one time trying to get a unit for testing).


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AlterEcho



Joined: 26/06/05
Posts: 10
Re: Echo Layla Question...perhaps TAFKAT could look :) new [Re: AlterEcho]
      #1025447 - 21/12/12 02:04 PM
This should be interesting and more involved than at first glance.

First hurdle...make sure that the MB I plugged into supports PCI 2.1 signaling (not to mention a slot that is not sharing an IRQ). The Layla card is a 2.1 5v, which I believe was removed in PCI 2.3 through 3.0. So, even if it fits it might not support the proper signaling.
I might luck out, though. I have a water-cooled rig that was used for benchmarking, back in the day. It has a Athlon XP 1700+ that I was overclocking at 3400 mhz. I couldn't get rid of it because I had spent so much time building it (Meanwell 750w dual PS's, Peltier cooler and subzero temps). This PC might get pressed into service, instead.
What I am really hoping for is my other spare PC will work, a AMD 3200+.
This should be fun


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