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Rich C



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 286
Loc: Leamington Spa
64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8
      #1023106 - 07/12/12 11:32 PM
I have just read the SoS article about 64 bit operating systems, as I have just now upgraded my XP to Windows 8, but I am still not sure if I should use the 64 bit or 32 bit version.

I still use quite a few old plugins: such as the original version of The Grand, Hypersonic and FM7, for example. Is there any advantage in installing the 64 bit Win 8? Will these old plugins make the system and Cubase throw a wobbly? or will they be fine?

I have only 3GB memory for the moment, having just upgraded windows, but I am not really sure if I will need any more memory as my needs are very modest.

I just don't know which version I 'should' be using - I would hate to keep myself stuck with some kind of obsolete 32 bit system if I have the capacity to use the 64 bit windows.

Am I missing something important here?

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The Elf
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Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023110 - 07/12/12 11:45 PM
I'd go for the 64-bit OS regardless of which version of Cubase you use. Cubase 64-bit *and* 32-bit will both run on a 64-bit OS, and you can run the 32-bit version of Cubase if you find a plug-in the 64-bit version doesn't cope with.

So far, since Cubase 6, I've yet to find a 32-bit plug-in that causes Cubase 64-bit any trouble, but there may well be exceptions out there.

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Sabbs



Joined: 14/10/04
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Loc: Dubai UAE
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023166 - 08/12/12 01:25 PM
I second Mr Elf's comments

64 bit is the way to go. Most 32 bit applications will run on a 64 bit OS but you will also get access to more RAM should you need it.

Additionally if it's a Windows 7 program you are installing it should also work on Windows 8 with no issues.

I hope that helps.

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Magic Matt



Joined: 17/09/10
Posts: 141
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023213 - 08/12/12 05:29 PM
Quote Rich C:


I have only 3GB memory for the moment, having just upgraded windows, but I am not really sure if I will need any more memory as my needs are very modest.

I just don't know which version I 'should' be using - I would hate to keep myself stuck with some kind of obsolete 32 bit system if I have the capacity to use the 64 bit windows.

Am I missing something important here?




On a 3Gb machine, you should be using 32bit.

The 64bit versions of programs take up more memory to begin with, simply because the OS, drivers, and some programs will be compiled for 64bit... so that means you can't fit as much into your RAM when running a 64bit OS. The 32bit OS will also usually run a touch faster, especially on older hardware, though possibly not to make much noticeable difference.

However, if you're going to upgrade your memory, you can't use more than 3.5Gb realistically on a 32bit OS (it has a 4Gb limit, but you have to allow for graphics card addressing etc.) which means if you're going to upgrade your memory, then preparing for that by getting the 64bit OS now is a sensible move.

That's assuming your machine can take over 4Gb RAM... which if it's an old XP machine it may not be able to (mine can't, and it was bought around the time Vista was out, so in XP terms it was a very high end model).

I don't know about Cubase, but I have most of the plugins you list and they've been fine on Win7 64Bit, so if there are issues it's more likely to do with Windows 8 than it is whether you're on 64Bit or not. In theory, the 32bit plugins should all be absolutely fine, as long as the host software you use supports them.

I'm not which versions of Cubase work on Win 8 - it would be a good idea to check for any updates for software you have, in case there are known issues, as you may have to upgrade.


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Rich C



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 286
Loc: Leamington Spa
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023232 - 08/12/12 08:56 PM
Hmmmm.... Thank you for these replies. I have now installed the OS and next need to embark or installing all the plugins and sample libraries. Boo. I have 3gb of RAM in the machine which cost me about £112 three years ago - it was the fastest and best I could find at the time. I do, however, intend to upgrade the RAM as I saw 16gb for £54 !!!

My processor is some type of AMD 4 core phenom II or something like that. It was so long ago that I bought it that I cannot remember exactly what it is. It has up to now given me plenty of performance to spare so I am not keen to upgrade that for the moment. My projects have always seemed small enough not to tax my processor too badly.

I have now installed win 8 64. Also Cubase 7 and, incidentally, FINALLY seem to have got rid of the hang-on-exit problem that has plagued cubase since I 'upgraded' to version 5.

Will I really be able to notice a difference in speed between the 64 and 32 bit versions with my current 3gb of RAM? I didn't really know what to do - when I originally posted I had installed the 32 bit version to try and get Cubase to play nicely but no such luck, which prompted me to finally upgrade from version 5. From using both versions of windows for a short time I cannot say that I can discern any difference in speed in any way. I hope not anyway. Are we talking really small theoretical differences, or is my system going to be really taxed until I get more RAM in there?

Thanks again for the ideas so far - this is really helping me sort out my new system.

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Magic Matt



Joined: 17/09/10
Posts: 141
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023477 - 10/12/12 03:01 PM
Quote Rich C:

Will I really be able to notice a difference in speed between the 64 and 32 bit versions with my current 3gb of RAM?




That's a bit difficult to answer. The 64bit programs are larger, and use more RAM, so I run out of RAM more quickly, and that in turn means I start hitting the paging file sooner. I certainly notice that difference if I'm editing stuff that is memory hungry.

Whether or not you notice a difference between the 32bit and 64bit versions of the same program depends as much on how they're compiled and optimised as anything else. By way of example, the 64bit version of Photoshop on 64bit Windows is faster than the 32bit version on 32bit windows processing the same file on my machine... however the 64bit Internet Explorer on 64bit windows is a touch slower.

The main reason for using 64bit is to open up the ability to use far more RAM. The 32bit OS and 32bit software is more efficient on systems that are below 4Gb, mainly because they take up less RAM to begin with.

Hope that makes sense...

On my main music system, I didn't bother upgrading from 4Gb to 16Gb, I instead put a cheap 128Gb SSD in there as the working data drive (I generally run a system drive, data drive, and archive drive). Since I tend to work with a lot of recorded data and sample-based VSTs, it made much more difference and I can now run at least 8x more audio tracks before the system complains, so clearly my bottleneck was in the loading/saving data. In terms of responsiveness, it almost feels like all my files are in RAM rather than on the drive, and my music system is pretty old (4Gb RAM, P4 3GHz, and I've gone back to WinXP which is obviously 32bit).

Edited by Magic Matt (10/12/12 03:02 PM)


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jaminem
active member


Joined: 19/03/01
Posts: 1127
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023478 - 10/12/12 03:08 PM
Quote Rich C:



I have now installed win 8 64. Also Cubase 7 and, incidentally, FINALLY seem to have got rid of the hang-on-exit problem that has plagued cubase since I 'upgraded' to version 5.





Hang on - it no longer hangs on exit? really are you sure?
So I won't have to re-boot my machine every time I want to close a project i'm working on...?

Paying £145 for that is obscene, BUT I still may have to do it...


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Rich C



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 286
Loc: Leamington Spa
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023531 - 10/12/12 07:29 PM
This is interesting - I have tried to avoid tinkering with the computer for years now. I used to build them from components but my hair went grey very quickly, so now I avoid it like the plague unless it is absolutely necessary - and I felt that I needed to do something about my wobbly computer. I have finally re-installed the 64 bit version as I felt that I surely MUST be missing something if I didn't. My motherboard manual says the board will support 8GB. I will perhaps try out an SSD drive too to see what that does. My projects are really not that gargantuan, so it might not make too much difference. I think I was just worried about being left in a technological cul de sac... like I have been with my old 01X.

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Rich C



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 286
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Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: jaminem]
      #1023533 - 10/12/12 07:38 PM
Quote:



Hang on - it no longer hangs on exit? really are you sure?
So I won't have to re-boot my machine every time I want to close a project i'm working on...?

Paying £145 for that is obscene, BUT I still may have to do it...




No..... I was deluded and spoke too soon in a haze of euphoria.

It STILL HANGS ON EXIT. I really did think it was cured, but that lasted for about five minutes. I tried with a pristine installation of Cubase and it STILL did it. I was desperately hoping it was just some evil plugin.

I am seriously thinking about jumping ship - after a total spend of in excess of £1000 with the initial purchase of Cubase VST and subsequent upgrades. I have been testing Reaper a little and think it might finally make me change sequencer. Either that or see what Windows DP is like when it comes out. I have stuck with Cubase, having spent so much money on it I thought I was duty bound but the %*!!?*! hanging on exit is out of all proportion driving me insane. Reaper at forty-odd quid doesn't do it... Live doesn't do it... NOTHING else does it. Why have I been willing to put up with it? I upgraded from Cubase 5 (£203) in a wanton fit of desperation trying to rid me from the spectre of the flipping Cubase window hanging around after quitting like a butcher at a vegetarian's convention. Grrrrr.

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jaminem
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Joined: 19/03/01
Posts: 1127
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1023536 - 10/12/12 07:53 PM
Quote Rich C:

Quote:



Hang on - it no longer hangs on exit? really are you sure?
So I won't have to re-boot my machine every time I want to close a project i'm working on...?

Paying £145 for that is obscene, BUT I still may have to do it...




No..... I was deluded and spoke too soon in a haze of euphoria.

It STILL HANGS ON EXIT. I really did think it was cured, but that lasted for about five minutes. I tried with a pristine installation of Cubase and it STILL did it. I was desperately hoping it was just some evil plugin.

I am seriously thinking about jumping ship - after a total spend of in excess of £1000 with the initial purchase of Cubase VST and subsequent upgrades. I have been testing Reaper a little and think it might finally make me change sequencer. Either that or see what Windows DP is like when it comes out. I have stuck with Cubase, having spent so much money on it I thought I was duty bound but the %*!!?*! hanging on exit is out of all proportion driving me insane. Reaper at forty-odd quid doesn't do it... Live doesn't do it... NOTHING else does it. Why have I been willing to put up with it? I upgraded from Cubase 5 (£203) in a wanton fit of desperation trying to rid me from the spectre of the flipping Cubase window hanging around after quitting like a butcher at a vegetarian's convention. Grrrrr.




Bugger.
You don't have BFD do you?
Thats what I thought I'd traced it too...


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Rich C



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 286
Loc: Leamington Spa
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: Rich C]
      #1025929 - 26/12/12 09:16 PM
An update on my 64 bit system: it works!!! I didn't get more memory in my Christmas stocking but am going to order it on payday and hopefully give my system a little boost. I decided to stick with the 64 bit version of windows so that hopefully I would stay reasonably up-to-date. Although, depressingly, I think I might *yet again* have to consider a motherboard upgrade to keep my system reasonably current.

On the subject of Cubase, I think I might have found a plausible suspect (although I don't want to speak too soon this time)... my MIDISPORT MIDI interface. Hmmmm.

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Pete Kaine
Scan Computers


Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 3610
Loc: Manchester
Re: 64 bit vs 32 Bit Windows 8 new [Re: jaminem]
      #1026699 - 02/01/13 11:44 AM
Quote jaminem:

Quote Rich C:



I have now installed win 8 64. Also Cubase 7 and, incidentally, FINALLY seem to have got rid of the hang-on-exit problem that has plagued cubase since I 'upgraded' to version 5.





Hang on - it no longer hangs on exit? really are you sure?
So I won't have to re-boot my machine every time I want to close a project i'm working on...?





Ctrl+alt+delete > kill process, to remove the Cubase thread and keep working.

Mine was doing it for years, turned out to be an older plug in hanging it on exit. Not all that uncommon by all accounts as Cubase will shutdown each plug in process in turn when you close it, so when one of those plugs decides it would rather remain open things cease to behave as you'd like.

Go and update all your plugs ins, I think I did that and removed a number of the free ones that shipped with it as well which I had never used. Something fixed it for me but YMMV.

Quote Rich C:


On the subject of Cubase, I think I might have found a plausible suspect (although I don't want to speak too soon this time)... my MIDISPORT MIDI interface. Hmmmm.




You got the anniversary edition or the original? The components changed between the two so the drivers are not interchangable and explains why support for the older revision went patchy after XP. I'm not entirely sure what support for the newer one is like on 8 TBH.

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