Why is it, that website designers seem to have lost any concept of - KISS

At times like holidays I use the free time to do a few favours for friends - eg fix their PC, and I do some work for a disabled friend who has been bequethed quite a nice little Shuttle PC but it needed a rebuild.

A hour or so with a cuppa and bickies and she gets a PC for Xmas, or so I thought!

I have the names of the drivers, Realtek ALC650, RTL8201BL and no matter what link I follow on their site, and searches I do, I keep coming back to the 'about' page, with datasheets, information sheets, and all sorts of claptrap, anything but a driver.

I don't need to know all about the products - I just want a chuffin driver, and am going round and round in circles. Why don't they have a page on all product sites DOWNLOAD YOUR DRIVERS HERE and that includes legacy products. But no, that is too simple for an IT egit - what on earth is so difficult about that?

So here I am after about 6 hours during my xmas break friggin about with chuffin drivers that about as easy to find as Lord Lucan.

And when I go to the download sites that's even worse, yo click the Download button and all you get is download managers that want to pollute the PC

I give up, it's going through the flamin' window

I always found all the drivers I needed for a Shuttle barebones on their sites.

In case you haven't found them yet, here a links for the Shuttle US Support and European Support. The European support site does have a tool to help you identify which model you have. And if memory serves me correct, the XPC driver downloads include the ones you are looking for. They also have links to 3rd party sites to download drivers there too.

Hope that saves you some time and gets you back to your biscuits

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

They are there, althrough they are resonably hidden. The reason why? Both of the drivers you mentioned are drivers for chips that are sold as ODM/OEM solutions to motherboard builders. It is expected that they will customise the code and install packages to reflect the final build, so support for drivers lays with them... i.e. time to go and hit up that shuttle site.

This however can become a real pain in the ass when aforementioned motherboard maker then decides they can't be arsed to update them down the line.

If you get really stuck the generic AC97 driver (for the realtek ALC 650) can be had here:
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsCheck.aspx?Langid=1&PNid= 23&PFid=23&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#AC

Regarding the second driver this from the FAQ will answer that one :

Q9: Why don't I find RTL8201x driver on the website?

A9:
RTL8201, RTL8201BL, RTL8201CL, RTL8201CP, RTL8201N and RTL8211B(L) are all PHYceiver. That is a driverless hardware device. Software driver are relative to Network controller ( MAC ) which is integrated into chipset in such case mostly. Please contact your mother board maker or chipset manufacturer to obtain proper driver support.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote zenguitar:

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I always found all the drivers I needed for a Shuttle barebones on their sites.

In case you haven't found them yet, here a links for the Shuttle US Support and European Support. The European support site does have a tool to help you identify which model you have. And if memory serves me correct, the XPC driver downloads include the ones you are looking for. They also have links to 3rd party sites to download drivers there too.

Hope that saves you some time and gets you back to your biscuits

Andy

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Sorry, should have said, it is a Shuttle type machine, it's actually an A Open, but thanks anyway.

Quote Pete Kaine:

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They are there, althrough they are resonably hidden. The reason why? Both of the drivers you mentioned are drivers for chips that are sold as ODM/OEM solutions to motherboard builders. It is expected that they will customise the code and install packages to reflect the final build, so support for drivers lays with them... i.e. time to go and hit up that shuttle site.

This however can become a real pain in the ass when aforementioned motherboard maker then decides they can't be arsed to update them down the line.

If you get really stuck the generic AC97 driver (for the realtek ALC 650) can be had here:
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsCheck.aspx?Lang...

Regarding the second driver this from the FAQ will answer that one :

Q9: Why don't I find RTL8201x driver on the website?

A9:
RTL8201, RTL8201BL, RTL8201CL, RTL8201CP, RTL8201N and RTL8211B(L) are all PHYceiver. That is a driverless hardware device. Software driver are relative to Network controller ( MAC ) which is integrated into chipset in such case mostly. Please contact your mother board maker or chipset manufacturer to obtain proper driver support.

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Thanks for that, I fixed it now, I came across some obscure Russian site (yes dodgy I know but left with no choice after scouring the web for hours, literally) Anyway the Russian site had a file for the chipset and wow that file got the audio card, NIC and USB2 all working.

I was at a neighbours afterwards and talking to an IT professional who uttered those wise words - "Don't ever mention the fact that you know about computers otherwise everyone in town will be hitting you up" And I know what he means, I should learn to say 'No' But I do like helping out where I can but goodness me, I do question my wisdom sometimes. If I could just go to a site and theres a big tab saying DRIVERS and they are all there, nothing could be easier but why some site designers make what should be the simplest of tasks so excrutiatingly convoluted I do not know.

Anyway Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year everyone. Computer's going opff now and staying off for a few days!

Quote OneWorld:

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Thanks for that, I fixed it now, I came across some obscure Russian site (yes dodgy I know but left with no choice after scouring the web for hours, literally) Anyway the Russian site had a file for the chipset and wow that file got the audio card, NIC and USB2 all working.

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Ahh good stuff, sounds like you got lucky then. Sometimes I'm afraid to say it does come to that, althrough sometimes you can locate drivers by finding another board of simuler spec and working backwards from there. DriverStation in France can be handy if you get really, really stuck its one of the few driver download sites that doesn't seem to be a scam.

Quote OneWorld:

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[
I was at a neighbours afterwards and talking to an IT professional who uttered those wise words - "Don't ever mention the fact that you know about computers otherwise everyone in town will be hitting you up" And I know what he means, I should learn to say 'No' But I do like helping out where I can but goodness me, I do question my wisdom sometimes. If I could just go to a site and theres a big tab saying DRIVERS and they are all there, nothing could be easier but why some site designers make what should be the simplest of tasks so excrutiatingly convoluted I do not know.

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Aye and it'll be your fault when they contract a virus in 8 months as the windows patch you installed or the piece of software you added will be at fault (because Firefox is really less secure than IE6) and you'll never hear the end of it. Trust me I've got procastination down to such an art that people dropping machines off get a 6 - 8 week turn around unless they cross my palm with silver first. It stops anyone turning up with a demand that I fix something stupid they've done!

Quote OneWorld:

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Anyway Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year everyone. Computer's going opff now and staying off for a few days!

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Indeed, know that feeling... have a good un

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

The Realtek drivers are for the onboard sound chip? Then look up ASIO4ALL which is a better driver anyway that, if your friend needs it for music apps, will make it easy to use the onboard soundchip for a DAW or just to check system faults if using a DAW.

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Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

If you think that is a pain in the butt, try sourcing laptop DC power input sockets!

Because I foolishly let it be known that I had been successful at doing the odd replacement on pre-power connector daughterboard lappies, I have been buried in an avalanche of the bloody things & had the owner of a local 3 store PC shop chin ask me if I was interested in doing ALL theirs.

Before tackling one of these, I would have assumed there would only be a half dozen variants at most, discounting Sony's usual fiddle-de-dee, but the variety seems pretty much infinite and being mostly "made in China" part numbers are meaningless.

Rant over.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

Quote OneWorld:

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"Don't ever mention the fact that you know about computers otherwise everyone in town will be hitting you up"

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Neighbours and friends got to know that I worked with 'Akai' - first Akai Japan and then the 'new' Akai US/Numark...

And I was forever beset with requests to fix their VCRs. TVs, etc..

Eno has the right idea...

When at some party and anyone asks what he does for a living, he tells them he's an accountant and they all make their apologies and wander off in search of someone more interesting!

NEVER tell anyone you might know a thing or two about technology - you could be a slave for life!!!

And yes, of course, it is always nice to help people out but some can take the p!ss!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote hollowsun:

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... but some can take the p!ss!

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I knew his dad!

He was the one that knocked on my door circ. 1970 on Christmas day wanting me to fix his telly just as we started dinner. I think that was the only time my dad and I were in total agreement.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Hah!
30 years ago I was a TV tech for the South Midlands Co-op and one Boxing day morn a neighbour from 20 doors down knocked on the door to tell me their co-op rented telly was borked.

As I was probably still a bit pissed I lugged toolbox and solder iron from car to house on foot and set about fixing the TV. About an hour later all was up and doing and Chap was very pleased and wished me a very happy rest of the season. I hopped from foot to foot a bit, mentioned that I did not ACTUALLY start work until the next day but no, he clearly thought his rental covered my time 24/7/365! I don't even remember getting a cup of tea!

Dave.

Quote hollowsun:

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NEVER tell anyone you might know a thing or two about technology - you could be a slave for life!!!

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You're right there. I found work a lot easier to endure when I learnt to say 'no' let 'em find another fool. Privately though I will help out if I can, if it is a disadvantaged/disabled person, but sometimes I could help myself more by just going and and buying a cheap laptop and donating it, rather than spend countless hours tracking down obscure drivers.

And when I ask these people for the disks that came with their machine they almost always say "Oh I don't like keeping clutter so I threw them away!"

With our last-but-one next door neighbours I was round their house at least once a week fixing their computer.

When they moved across town I didn't escape - once, they had some hardware problem with their Sony Vaio all-in-one and they left the machine with me for a weekend. I jokingly worked out what it would have cost them if I charged them what my day job hourly rate is. I wasn't asking to be paid, but they did actually give me 200 quid. And they haven't bothered me since - result!

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* Soundcloud *
* Bandcamp *

Quote hollowsun:

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NEVER tell anyone you might know a thing or two about technology - you could be a slave for life!!!

And yes, of course, it is always nice to help people out but some can take the p!ss!

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Spot on.

I sold an old PC onto a friend (it was already a few years old then). Since selling it, it seems I have agreed to be on call 24 hours a day for any technical problem he has. I got calls for the PC in question, his childrens' computers, his girlfriend's computer, his phone, his TV... It can stretch a friendship, I can tell you.

The PC that I sold him many years ago he has now sold on to another person, but that new owner then called him to say they were having problems - he gave them my number!!!

Enough was enough. I'm afraid I was less than helpful, leaving things a bit strained...

I'm happy to help anyone (as folks here on the fora know well), but there comes a point where I do feel that not only is it unfair to me, but the people calling me never learn to help themselves - as evidenced by the fact that nobody EVER has a backup, other than the last one I did for them.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Ha ha ha this whole thread makes me think "been there, got the tee shirt". At least with pc's you are in the warm out of the rain, you wait till you tell someone you trained as a car mechanic!

And the thing is, if these people are builders, plumbers, mechanics, accountants ec, they would never do your accounts for free or strip down and rebuild your engine for free.

Even if you paid them they wouldn't do it if you turned up at their house begging them at 10:30pm, and if they did they would charge a lot more for the inconvenience.

Yes, well, regarding the whole PC thing, people know that I know a thing or three about 'puters. My next door neighbour was forever having problems with her PC and had people round all the time fixing the stupid thing. She was spending money hand over fist. Thinking it to be a dud, she bought another - same crap.

She asked me if I'd have a look and I just said I can't help as I use a Mac. Her problems continued, she kept asking me to help, I kept reminding her I use a Mac.

In the end, she bought a Mac lappie of some sort and I've not heard a peep out of her since - she's over the the moon with it ... does exactly what she wants/needs and hasn't given her any gip whatsoever. She wishes she'd listened to my advice and bought one years ago. What minor problems she might have had have been very pleasantly sorted at the local Apple Centre for nowt at The Genius Bar (and have mostly been user error on her part).

This is not to start a Mac vs PC flame war but it's a polite way out of trouble...

If someone's having trouble with their PC, say you have a Mac!! They're essentially the same of course and you could probably sort it but to most PC people, Macs are an alien technology and they will just say "Ah! Right" and call (and pay) someone else to fix their ailing PC. Which is as it should be.

And Ojustaboo is bang on with his assessment - no-one would expect a friendly neighbour to do their accounts, fix a blocked loo, decorate the front room for free, whatever.

OTOH, a barter system is good to encourage. My PC owning neighbour had some issues with her TV and video which I sorted ... but she's a terrific gardener (and I can kill plants just by looking at them) so she had her TV, etc., fixed and my herbaceous border never looked better!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote Ojustaboo:

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And the thing is, if these people are builders, plumbers, mechanics, accountants ec, they would never do your accounts for free or strip down and rebuild your engine for free.

Even if you paid them they wouldn't do it if you turned up at their house begging them at 10:30pm, and if they did they would charge a lot more for the inconvenience.

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Ha! Tis always them as 'as it don't like to pay!
I recall a woman berating me about the Co-op's £37+parts flat call out fee (if the thing was fixed)to the point that I lost it and asked flat out "What's your husband earn an hour then?" (V nice house,1/4mill today, "her" quite new car on the drive) I was told to leave and that she would be making a complaint...Did I care? No, I had been told along with 3 other people that I would be made redundant in a months time! Yup, that was during another recession.

Dave.

Quote Ojustaboo:

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And the thing is, if these people are builders, plumbers, mechanics, accountants ec, they would never do your accounts for free or strip down and rebuild your engine for free.

Even if you paid them they wouldn't do it if you turned up at their house begging them at 10:30pm, and if they did they would charge a lot more for the inconvenience.

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I used to but am far too old and cranky to be outside lying underneath cars at half ten at night these days.. Will still go out and rescue the odd damsel in distress though if she asks "nicely"

The problem I have found with computers is the more you learn the more you realise what you don't know! and "they" keep changing operating systems, you just get one sussed and another one pops up.............. now where did I leave my windows 3.1 floppy discs?

Quote ef37a:

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Quote Ojustaboo:

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And the thing is, if these people are builders, plumbers, mechanics, accountants ec, they would never do your accounts for free or strip down and rebuild your engine for free.

Even if you paid them they wouldn't do it if you turned up at their house begging them at 10:30pm, and if they did they would charge a lot more for the inconvenience.

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Ha! Tis always them as 'as it don't like to pay!
I recall a woman berating me about the Co-op's £37+parts flat call out fee (if the thing was fixed)to the point that I lost it and asked flat out "What's your husband earn an hour then?" (V nice house,1/4mill today, "her" quite new car on the drive) I was told to leave and that she would be making a complaint...Did I care? No, I had been told along with 3 other people that I would be made redundant in a months time! Yup, that was during another recession.

Dave.

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bah humbug LOL

I do agree, and think, we are our own worst enemies. We are naturally kindhearted and help out. Same as musicians, bands play for free and even pay to play, just to get the music out, so that it has got to the stage now where if you want to listen to a piece of music, whatever it is, you have YouTube (Videos too) Spotify, We7 etc etc all music for free. So can we as musicians complain when we are so happy to give stuff away or do gigs at the local pub for £50?

But back to my point. I was once in an Oxfam shop in Alderley Edge and a top of the range Mercedes pulled up and in came two well coiffered women. In conversation I overheard one say she is fed up with the builder, he wanted £15,000 for a conservatory - the cheek of it she said. Yet she was quite happy to carouse around in her £100,000+ car, which am sure would not get as much use as the conservatory nor last as long. But to pay a time-served tradesman, for something such as a conservatory, that was considered to be a rip-off?

On another occasion and this really did put things into perspective for me. Way back in the day when colour laser printers came out, I was asked by a local charity to come and install it. Now, some charities are extremely well funded, the offices were lavish, with marble halls, crystal chandeliers and wall to wall atriums and mobiles etc, it was opulent to say the least.

This printer was a pig, they had bought it from a 'trusted supplier' on the government's favoured suppliers list and he sold them a turkey, and the instruction manual/software was in Swedish! In addition to that, the thing was a monster, almost the size of a coffin. And of course I had to lug it from room to room to room until we found a spot where it matched the curtains, the fact that it wasn't near a network socket had nothing to do with it! And yes it was me that had to clear desks and corners of clutter to make space for it, as the office was full of fey women and equally fickle men that suddenly developed a back problem when it came to me needing help to shift the wretched lumpen thing. You know the types - "Save The World and the Single Mother Ethnic Minority Hump Backed Whale, We Love You All and Feel Your Pain" My pain didn't matter though, hauling this monstrosity about.

Then I had to get it on the network, not knowing that it had to have a fixed IP address, no DHCP and that ip address had to be in a certain range - as I mentioned, all the instructions were in Swedish.

I spent all morning on the job and got it working - even printing out the Urdu fonts they wanted (Why that particular user couldn't learn chuffin English I don't know, but that's another story) and I gave the admin lady, who I got on with quite well, the invoice, say today's equivalent about £150 for a full morning's work and she visibly winced, in fact she sent her assistant scurrying off to the chemist's for some smelling salts!

So at that point in time her assistant came into the office and asked the admin lady, still quaking in shock after I gave her my bill, to sign off a cheque for £900, which she did without so much as a blink of an eye. That £900 was to pay a woman who spent a day at the charity delivering "Diversity Training" In other words, common sense, all she did was teach you to suck eggs. Things like a multiple choice quiz that posed the questions....

"You are training a group of physically disabled people, in the interests of Health & Safety would you..

a) choose a training room on the top floor in a building with no lift and only a Bosun's Chair as a Fire Escape

b) Tell the disabled people to stop being a wuss and get on with it

c) Do a H&S statement, arrange for a comformatble room with wheelchair access, easy access to fire escape and other services

d) Shout fire and see what they do

it was that simple. yet they happily paid £900 for that! To rub salt in my wounds, 2 office girls breezed into the room just after having had their nails painted at a cost of 'only £20 and it only took 10 mins' in other words £120 an hour for putting some slap on.

From that day on I doubled my rates and factored in travel costs too, including my time to drive door to door, and I never lost any business, I'd rather sit at home twangling my guitar than work for nothing. But, technical/scientific/tradesmen have always been bottom of the crapheap in this country. And if they think my rates are too high they can ask the diversity woman, well if she's so diverse, she can hang a monstrosity of a badly configured laser printer off the back of the network, should be easy peasy.

I only do pro-bono work now for the genuinely needy or close friends who do not take advantage.

Quote Ojustaboo:

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And the thing is, if these people are builders, plumbers, mechanics, accountants ec, they would never do your accounts for free or strip down and rebuild your engine for free.

Even if you paid them they wouldn't do it if you turned up at their house begging them at 10:30pm, and if they did they would charge a lot more for the inconvenience.

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I have found that it can be hard enough to get a builder to turn up, even for a well paid job.

Quote The Elf:

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I'm happy to help anyone (as folks here on the fora know well), but there comes a point where I do feel that not only is it unfair to me, but the people calling me never learn to help themselves - as evidenced by the fact that nobody EVER has a backup, other than the last one I did for them.

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Yeah, I got sick of that too. Now the first time someone presents me a machine out of office hours, I'll make an attempt to recover any lost data if the isn't a back up in place. However I will sort out a proper backup solution upon finishing a job and explain how to use it. If someone then asks me to fix a machine down the road a second time they get 3 options:

A. Recover it yourself like I showed you from the backups you've kept.
B. Pay me a flat rate to look at it and then by the hour on top to recover the data again.
C. I'll plug in my pendrive to erase and reinstall the drive to a default setup and you can sort it from there.

The last option takes about 15 mins so no skin off my nose. Your paying an inflated amount by the hour if you want me to then find drivers and setup your network again.

I normally find those that forget to do A and refuse to pay out for B will normally stop bothering me if I carry out C and then discover that the last three months work has disappeared.... yes, I do make that clear first, but people rarely learn.

To that end also pays to have a standard "we're not responable for your data form" even if your not taking payment as some people fail to understand the concept of "the whole drive will be wiped... even your home movies and pictures of your unbacked up baby/wedding photos" when you tell them you need to resoftware.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote tex:

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The Realtek drivers are for the onboard sound chip? Then look up ASIO4ALL which is a better driver anyway that, if your friend needs it for music apps, will make it easy to use the onboard soundchip for a DAW or just to check system faults if using a DAW.

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Sorry for boringly bringing this back On Topic - I thought ASIO4ALL was a wrapper for the existing Realtek (or other onboard) driver? I don't think it would work as a driver in it's own right - would it?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

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Quote tex:

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The Realtek drivers are for the onboard sound chip? Then look up ASIO4ALL which is a better driver anyway that, if your friend needs it for music apps, will make it easy to use the onboard soundchip for a DAW or just to check system faults if using a DAW.

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Sorry for boringly bringing this back On Topic - I thought ASIO4ALL was a wrapper for the existing Realtek (or other onboard) driver? I don't think it would work as a driver in it's own right - would it?

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It's not really a helpful distinction. It does what it does - gets onboard sound behaving halfway like a better quality audio interface with an ASIO driver.

Quote Richard Graham:

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Quote tex:

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The Realtek drivers are for the onboard sound chip? Then look up ASIO4ALL which is a better driver anyway that, if your friend needs it for music apps, will make it easy to use the onboard soundchip for a DAW or just to check system faults if using a DAW.

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Sorry for boringly bringing this back On Topic - I thought ASIO4ALL was a wrapper for the existing Realtek (or other onboard) driver? I don't think it would work as a driver in it's own right - would it?

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Yes. That's what it is. A universal audio driver. ASIO give you a clue?

I constantly tell people I know a bit about technology but they all know even more and move about the computer keyboard and plugging an unplugging usb and midi leads at fantastic speed and know all about viruses and stuff and are all very whizzy at things like Cubase.
They don't need me and I let them crash their machines regularly knowing that they are dab hands with IT.

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Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Richard Graham:

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Quote tex:

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The Realtek drivers are for the onboard sound chip? Then look up ASIO4ALL which is a better driver anyway that, if your friend needs it for music apps, will make it easy to use the onboard soundchip for a DAW or just to check system faults if using a DAW.

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Sorry for boringly bringing this back On Topic - I thought ASIO4ALL was a wrapper for the existing Realtek (or other onboard) driver? I don't think it would work as a driver in it's own right - would it?

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It's not really a helpful distinction. It does what it does - gets onboard sound behaving halfway like a better quality audio interface with an ASIO driver.

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That is not helpful either

The driver bit in the name is not a reference to an audio driver it is a reference to ASIO driver, the ASIO4ALL is simply a wrapper for the Windows audio driver you use, it will not work without an audio driver, the reason it works better in some instances than windows audio services is that it forces the driver to work in bitperfect mode, which is a layer that microsoft added to the driver model to support DTS and DD data transfers to separate decoders such as home theater amps via the digital audio output.

People have started using the A4A driver with generic USB windows drivers in preference to a manufacturers supplied ASIO driver because they think it will sound better (as they read on the net), in these cases the A4A is more flexible in regards to leaving windows sound driver alone, but in this case it actually cannot be guaranteed to work in bitperfect mode so the only difference it makes is allowing the use of ASIO.

Thanks Reiknir. I wasn't completely on the ball there. I haven't had to use A4A myself and did the research years ago so, yes, I am well corrected.
I think the idea at the back of my mind was that it would stabilise an unruly driver in some circumstances.

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Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.