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Jez (mahoobley)
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Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions
      #1030112 - 24/01/13 12:38 PM
Wonder if anyone can help with my current concerns!

1. Can the £25 download upgrade be used as part of a totally fresh install from a newly upgraded PC?

2. To use the upgrade I have to have W7 installed already, right? Just my Windows 7 install is also an upgrade so to install that I first have to install XP - except my XP disc is quite old and doesn't support SATA. Any way I'm actually going to be able to install this from a fresh install?

3. I have a dual-boot set up - is this download going to allow me to install it onto two boot drives, or will I have to buy it twice?

Thanks!

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feline1
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030133 - 24/01/13 01:49 PM
you have to run the setup.exe installer from within an eligable operating system... simplest thing if you wanna do a clean install is install a new copy of WinXP onto your hard drive, use MS Update to bring that up to Service Pack 3, then upgrade to Win8 from within that.
(You can select the "don't keep anything" option when you do the it, so it just shoves the whole WinXP gubbins into a folder, which you can then delete cleanly using the Windows Disk Clean Up tool)

Are you sure your WinXP won't install onto a SATA drive? You should be able to insert a floppy or USB with the SATA drivers during the install if you really need to.

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: feline1]
      #1030136 - 24/01/13 02:04 PM
Ah, that's good to know I can upgrade from XP (you are sure about that, right?), that'll certainly save me hassle.

(although I just remembered my XP is also an upgrade version so needs a Windows 2000 inserted during install - which I'm not sure I have any more! Ahh fun times)

Quote feline1:


Are you sure your WinXP won't install onto a SATA drive? You should be able to insert a floppy or USB with the SATA drivers during the install if you really need to.




Definitely not - it's an original release XP disc that was pre SATA - I've been caught out by this before. *floppy drive?!?* People still have them? Not sure how to do it by USB though - the xp set up demands a floppy inserted - can modern bios' trick the installer into thinking a USB stick is a floppy drive?

Or wasn't there some thing that came with XP SP3 that allowed you to make a new install disc for a new XP SP3 install?

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DGL.



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030137 - 24/01/13 02:07 PM
To install windows XP on a SATA HDD you either need a copy of the SATA drivers on a floppy disc (no other medium will work) or to slipstream the drivers on a new windows disc using something like nLite which by using the original windows disc and the motherboards' SATA drivers creates a new windows disc with the drivers included (you can also add service packs so as to have a sp3 already on the disc).

http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html

You should not need the win 7 upgrade disc to install the update as you will be able to perform the update form windows XP.


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feline1
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030139 - 24/01/13 02:11 PM
Quote Jez (mahoobley):

Ah, that's good to know I can upgrade from XP (you are sure about that, right?)




Yes, I have personally done it! It's officially supported. The only "gotcha" is that you need to be at Service Pack 3 before you can run the Win8 upgrade, but Windows Update no longer works unless you are at Service Pack 3 lol So you have to manually find the service packs on the MS download site and install them that way.

Quote Jez (mahoobley):


(although I just remembered my XP is also an upgrade version so needs a Windows 2000 inserted during install - which I'm not sure I have any more! Ahh fun times)




Oh fer flippsakes!

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030140 - 24/01/13 02:16 PM
Which is why I'm weighing up whether saving the hassle is worth the 4x price for the non-upgrade standalone installer disc. I'm actually considering it.

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: DGL.]
      #1030142 - 24/01/13 02:18 PM
Quote DGL.:

To install windows XP on a SATA HDD you either need a copy of the SATA drivers on a floppy disc (no other medium will work) or to slipstream the drivers on a new windows disc using something like nLite which by using the original windows disc and the motherboards' SATA drivers creates a new windows disc with the drivers included (you can also add service packs so as to have a sp3 already on the disc).

http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html

You should not need the win 7 upgrade disc to install the update as you will be able to perform the update form windows XP.




But to get there I'll have to go back to XP somehow, right?

Ugh.

Theoretical question - would I technically be doing anything illegal, considering I have a valid license for XP, to just download err an image of a more recent XP installer disc of err 'alternative' origin and go from there? Am I allowed to even raise such an idea on this forum?

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030151 - 24/01/13 02:30 PM
Microsoft say that you aren't allowed the upgrade deal if you want to continue to run the old OS on another partition. So, as long as you no longer run an XP partition you would seem to be staying within the spirit of things. (Don't see why you can't still run a W7 partition if you don't upgrade from that).


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feline1
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030155 - 24/01/13 02:43 PM
As an aside - do you really need a dual boot if you run Windows 8?

It has a good VM environment (MS HyperV) or you can use Oracle Virtual box if you need a VM with support for soundcards & USB

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Billum



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030169 - 24/01/13 03:52 PM
I'm a little confused as to what you now actually need to install, but if you're installing Windows 7 as an update from XP, you don't have to install XP first. You just install Windows 7, and at some point during the installation it will ask you to put the XP CD into the drive to verify you owned it already.

But it sounds like you can do the Win 8 upgrade from XP anyway!

(I'm looking into getting the cheap Win 8 upgrade, and then grabbing the free Win 7 Pro *downgrade*, to bring my laptop up from XP to Win 7 Pro for £25!)

Edited by Billum (24/01/13 03:52 PM)


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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Billum]
      #1030173 - 24/01/13 03:59 PM
>I'm looking into getting the cheap Win 8 upgrade, and then grabbing the free Win 7 Pro *downgrade*, to bring my laptop up from XP to Win 7 Pro for £25!

I'm pretty sure they don't let you do this.


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feline1
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Billum]
      #1030174 - 24/01/13 04:00 PM
Quote Billum:

I'm a little confused as to what you now actually need to install, but if you're installing Windows 7 as an update from XP, you don't have to install XP first. You just install Windows 7, and at some point during the installation it will ask you to put the XP CD into the drive to verify you owned it already.





Ah! Good call, Billum!
Because this is the crucial difference with the Win8 upgrade: you can't just install it on a blank drive then present your old installer DVD mid-install as proof of purchase - you gotta physically run the Win 8 setup from inside the old OS.
But it sounds like in this case, the original poster can install Win7 on a clean drive, slip it the XP CD mid-install, then run the Win8 upgrade from Win7 - problem solved?

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: feline1]
      #1030175 - 24/01/13 04:15 PM
>But it sounds like in this case, the original poster can install Win7 on a clean drive, slip it the XP CD mid-install, then run the Win8 upgrade from Win7 - problem solved?

In theory it looks like he can do this. But the upgrade is supposed to remove the license for that W7, so he won't be able to run that W7 on another partition, as it looks like he wants to do. (Perhaps in practice he can, don't know, but he says he wants to be 'legal').

So if he wants to keep his W7 partition and comply with Microsoft then he needs to upgrade from XP. (I haven't come across anyone saying you can't upgrade to W8 from XP if you've already previously upgraded that XP to W7, but for all I know it is in the fine print somewhere).

Edited by Scramble (24/01/13 04:16 PM)


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Billum



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Scramble]
      #1030177 - 24/01/13 04:30 PM
Quote Scramble:

>I'm looking into getting the cheap Win 8 upgrade, and then grabbing the free Win 7 Pro *downgrade*, to bring my laptop up from XP to Win 7 Pro for £25!

I'm pretty sure they don't let you do this.




Hmm, I think it's still a bit ambiguous, but you might be right, it could just be for OEM versions of Windows 8:

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx


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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Billum]
      #1030180 - 24/01/13 04:39 PM
I can't find info on this on Microsoft's site, but lots of forums are reporting something like what is on this page:

"Downgrade rights are only available on computers that come with Windows 8 Pro. Upgrade copies of Windows 8 Pro don’t include downgrade rights, so you can’t purchase the Windows 8 Pro Pack to get downgrade rights."


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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030211 - 24/01/13 06:31 PM
To clarify on some points of contention:

1. My Windows 7 upgrade disc DEFINITELY requires me to have Windows XP installed first. It does NOT allow me to install on a blank drive, verifying the old disc during installation.

2. I want to have two installations of Windows 8 on the same machine - can I definitely do that with the £25 upgrade? The purchase is just a setup.exe type app, right, that I can just run from what will be two fresh XP installs?

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030215 - 24/01/13 06:36 PM
Errrr .... hmmm. From Microsoft's website:

Quote:


Upgrade to a 64-Bit Windows 8
If you want to upgrade a PC with a 32-Bit Windows operating system to a 64-Bit Windows 8, it’s necessary to do a clean install. The license we offer here qualifies for a clean install. But please note: we strongly recommend that you backup all of your data before, because you’ll lose all data and applications during this process.

A Windows 8 clean install demands a previous installed and activated version of Windows XP (SP3), Windows Vista or Windows 7. You’ll need the DVD for clean install. Please choose “ship it” above as delivery option.





MS website seems to be suggesting I can't do what I want to do with the £25 download.

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mhaigh



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030244 - 24/01/13 08:35 PM
on a separate but related issue (sorry Jez) thinking about going from Vista to 8 on my laptop (non-music) - 5 year old Vaio with T6400 and 3gb - which will run 8 fine, it's in its pensionable years and will need a new one in 12 months or so (right now, off-charge battery life is about 60 mins)...is it worth the hassle to do this? as much as i hate Vista, and am hoping for quicker boot times, more responsive overall...worth it or not for £25?

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BraddersUK



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030245 - 24/01/13 08:40 PM
I can confirm that you can do a clean install of Windows 8 from the £25 upgrade download.

It sounds silly but you install Windows 8, it will let you but you can't activate it. Then you UPGRADE Windows 8 to Windows 8 over the top!! Then you can activate it because you have "upgraded". Sounds crazy but I and many others have done it!

I installed it on Boot Camp on a Mac.

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: BraddersUK]
      #1030248 - 24/01/13 08:46 PM
> you install Windows 8, it will let you but you can't activate it. Then you UPGRADE Windows 8 to Windows 8 over the top!! Then you can activate it because you have "upgraded".

Do you have to prove at some stage in this process that you have XP/Vista/Windows 7?


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BraddersUK



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030251 - 24/01/13 08:53 PM
No, as I don't have XP/Vista/Windows 7!

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: BraddersUK]
      #1030256 - 24/01/13 09:06 PM
Quote BraddersUK:

I can confirm that you can do a clean install of Windows 8 from the £25 upgrade download.

It sounds silly but you install Windows 8, it will let you but you can't activate it. Then you UPGRADE Windows 8 to Windows 8 over the top!! Then you can activate it because you have "upgraded". Sounds crazy but I and many others have done it!

I installed it on Boot Camp on a Mac.




Ah that's great to know, thanks! I also realised I could potentially install Windows 7 as 64bit and get round the restriction but this way sounds better!

Could you also possibly confirm if it's ok to do two installations on the same PC (i.e. dual boot setup) with this £25 license?

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BraddersUK



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030258 - 24/01/13 09:10 PM
ooh, no idea I'm afraid.

I've been trying to find the website where I first read about it but I can't. I hope it still works!! Just warning you incase it was a loop-hole they've since plugged.

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030260 - 24/01/13 09:13 PM
It shouldn't be against the terms of the license I expect, just concerned it might not be workable.

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Pete Kaine
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030358 - 25/01/13 10:19 AM
Quote Jez (mahoobley):


Could you also possibly confirm if it's ok to do two installations on the same PC (i.e. dual boot setup) with this £25 license?




One licence is one install as far as the terms state, so no your not as far as the licence agreement is concerned allowed to do two installs using one key.

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Will_m



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030423 - 25/01/13 03:12 PM
I found this guide on doing a clean install with the upgrade:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/clean-install-windows-8-upgrade. htm

Seems to say that you can choose to burn the standard .iso to DVD and then do a normal clean install that way as long as you have a previous version of windows already on your HDD.

I guess then you can just do a system image back-up to quickly restore if anything goes wrong, rather than having to install win again then install win 8 after that.

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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Will_m]
      #1030429 - 25/01/13 04:13 PM
That's good to know what actually happens, cheers for that.

According to Microsoft's Indian call centre, I should be able to do dual boot upgrade with this download version - may as well give it a go and if it doesn't work say they told me it would and demand a refund!

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Mock Element



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030450 - 25/01/13 06:45 PM
When I was searching about to determine whether I could be arsed with buying Windows 8 I eventually found this:

Clean Install Possible?

Maybe I'm missing something but the link in the previous post above seems to suggest a way of doing a 'clean' install by just starting the PC and booting from the DVD. Seems a bit vague as to how clean that actually is. It'll still need to detect that there is a version of windows installed will it not?
So, in that case, maybe the link I've posted is better to actually get Windows activated without any hassle, onto a freshly formatted/wiped drive? I do not know...

Disclaimer. I am not advising that this is something you should do, especially if it is against the license agreement. It's purely for educational purposes.


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Will_m



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030503 - 26/01/13 01:41 AM
In both links people seem to have confirmed that you can do a clean install (as in format the HDD and put on your new win8) as long as when you boot from disk there is currently an existing copy of windows on the HDD. I'm now about 3 years since a re-install so I'm thinking of switching to 8,if I do I'll let you know how I get on. Either way I'm buying the upgrade before the offer expires.

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Will_m]
      #1030518 - 26/01/13 10:09 AM
It sounded to me like you can clean install the W8 upgrade without any existing Windows partitions on any HDD, as long as you then install over the top of that, or use one of the registry hacks.


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BraddersUK



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Scramble]
      #1030602 - 26/01/13 07:22 PM
Quote Scramble:

It sounded to me like you can clean install the W8 upgrade without any existing Windows partitions on any HDD, as long as you then install over the top of that, or use one of the registry hacks.




I agree.

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: BraddersUK]
      #1030606 - 26/01/13 08:08 PM
From reading around it also sounds like all the upgrade looks for is anything that looks like an existing Windows installation somewhere on your system. It doesn't investigate this installation to see if it has a valid license. It doesn't cancel any license this install has. And it doesn't send any information to Microsoft about the license the old install has. So it looks like you could continue to use the old installation, although it seems that that would be breaking the terms of the license agreement.

Also, you don't have to install W8 over the existing installation, you can install to an empty partition, or a new drive, and it will work first time.

Edited by Scramble (26/01/13 08:14 PM)


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Martin WalkerModerator
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Billum]
      #1030932 - 28/01/13 09:50 PM
Quote Billum:

(I'm looking into getting the cheap Win 8 upgrade, and then grabbing the free Win 7 Pro *downgrade*, to bring my laptop up from XP to Win 7 Pro for £25!)




Hi Billum!

Just make absolutely sure you can get all the Win 7/8 drivers you need for your laptop's motherboard - laptop manufacturers have a habit of superseding their models and not bothering to issue driver updates.

I've known people attempt to upgrade only to find that they can no longer use some of their devices, ports and so on

If you decide to go ahead, do make an image file of your current laptop installation, so you can return to XP if the worst happens


Martin

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Shambolic Charm



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030977 - 29/01/13 09:35 AM
I just upgraded my HP Pavilion laptop from windows 7 to 8 and whilst all the drivers seem to be covered, the DPC latency throws a fit every now and then with outrageous spikes grinding everything to a halt. I've done all I can to sort it and am out of ideas. So looks like I may have to go back to 7. Can I use this upgrade on another PC, as I am not using it on my laptop?

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Scramble
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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Shambolic Charm]
      #1030979 - 29/01/13 10:26 AM
You should be able to install the Windows software on another computer. Whether your license key will work on the other computer I don't know. If it doesn't you could always give contact Microsoft and explain the situation.

I've just tried the upgrade myself on a spare SSD, just for testing purposes (did a clean install with no other drives connected). Installed twice, and it worked. I'm not going to use it yet, though, because it's too early to move to W8 as far as drivers and other compatibility issues goes, and also because I hate W8.


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IvanSC



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1030991 - 29/01/13 11:42 AM
Sham - dpclat publisher is already acknowledging that the current .exe does not work right with win 8.

I am showing a straight line of yellow bars all at the same level despite having no audio issues.

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Billum



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Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #1030995 - 29/01/13 11:52 AM
Quote Martin Walker:

Just make absolutely sure you can get all the Win 7/8 drivers you need for your laptop's motherboard - laptop manufacturers have a habit of superseding their models and not bothering to issue driver updates.

I've known people attempt to upgrade only to find that they can no longer use some of their devices, ports and so on

If you decide to go ahead, do make an image file of your current laptop installation, so you can return to XP if the worst happens




Thanks Martin, very good points which I hadn't considered, especially with the updated drivers. I might not go ahead in fact now, due to a) the downgrade to Win7 doesn't look possible with this cheap upgrade to Win8, and b) I can't stand the look of Win8!

Maybe I'll just try to source a cheap Win7 upgrade from XP if I can find one...


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Shambolic Charm



Joined: 13/07/05
Posts: 946
Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: IvanSC]
      #1030996 - 29/01/13 11:56 AM
Quote IvanSC:

Sham - dpclat publisher is already acknowledging that the current .exe does not work right with win 8.

I am showing a straight line of yellow bars all at the same level despite having no audio issues.




Yes I saw that, and that's what I get on my desktop but my laptop had big red spikes every now and then. Whilst it may not be accurate Sonar X1 starts stuttering and grinds to a halt. I suspect it is the broadcom wireless driver as changing it brings things under control a little but it still has these massive spikes that takes out the sound engine. Shame because I rather like windows 8 once I got used to it. I tried the 32bit version and it seemed ok. SO must be a problem with a 64 bit driver.

--------------------
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Edited by Shambolic Charm (29/01/13 11:58 AM)


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feline1
active member


Joined: 23/06/03
Posts: 4092
Loc: Brighton, UK
Re: Windows 8 £25 download upgrade questions new [Re: Billum]
      #1031020 - 29/01/13 01:36 PM
Quote Billum:


Thanks Martin, very good points which I hadn't considered, especially with the updated drivers. I might not go ahead in fact now, due to a) the downgrade to Win7 doesn't look possible with this cheap upgrade to Win8, and b) I can't stand the look of Win8!

Maybe I'll just try to source a cheap Win7 upgrade from XP if I can find one...




However, also be aware that you may not *need* seperate motherboard drivers for Windows 8, as it supports a lot more stuff natively. A good example of this is USB 3.0 - don't go worrying that your motherboard vendor doesn't have a USB 3 driver download for Windows 8, cos you don't need one.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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