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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
HELP Computer keeps crashing
      #1048838 - 18/05/13 11:36 AM
I really need some help I thought I was doing the right thing when I invested in new sound cards but I have had nothing but 5 months of problems.
I bought 2 Steinberg / Yamaha MR816x soundcards to replace my aging Motu 828s and then the problems started. I have had computer experts from around the world look through my computer with Team Viewer and they all say that everything seems correct.
I have replaced RAM memory, Power Supply, Hard Disks, Reinstalled Windows and all programs, Updated Bios checked that ALL drivers are the latest versions and still it crashes.

I will try and explain what happens. When I start Cubase (7) and open a project the soundcards automatically switch to the mode of the project eg 32 channels I/O or to the mix mode using the effects that come inside the cards. This is not really a problem so long as I am in mix mode and I have the extra 16 channels (2 Adats) not even turned on (though this doesn't seem to matter)I can work all day with no problems, but as soon as I switch to using 32 channels which are in turn connected to the stage for live recording (this is not a mobile setup) everything works wonderfully for perhaps an hour sometimes 2hrs sometimes only 5 mins and then the dreaded Blue Screen. All I have time to read is that there is a conflict in the driver framework before it tries to reboot. I have reinstalled the drivers to no avail.
This is becoming a real problem I have a minimum of 2 bands a week to record and so far this season (the place is open 9 mths of the year) I have only been able to complete 3 out of 27 bands and high season is just around the corner with some very big acts coming expecting to be able to record their shows live and I am looking a bit of a fool saying it might work. Slowly my stress level is reaching overload as I not only have to record these bands but do the live sound at the same time so I don't know if the computer has crashed in the middle of the set or not until they have a break. I manage to get an average of 2 sets recorded out of 4 but as everyone knows live recording sometimes capture those magical moments with bands that never happen in the studio and I'm missing them.
I would really appreciate some help if anyone has any ideas. The only thing I can think of that I haven`t tried is replacing the Adats with more up to date AD/DA converters.

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas

Cheers Russell


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Tombot



Joined: 09/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Scan Pro Audio
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048841 - 18/05/13 11:54 AM
I'm presuming from the fact that you have replaced the power supply that this is a desktop PC.
What is your firewire chipset? is it on the motherboard (what motherboard & cpu?), or have you got a PCIe firewire card?
Please give details.

Please go and download whocrashed and use it to analyse the crash dum. it should tell you much more details about what possibly caused the problem. Who Crashed

What version of windows are you running?,
are you using the Lecacy firewire driver?

--------------------
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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Tombot]
      #1048843 - 18/05/13 12:06 PM
The Firewire card is a Texas Instrument card and everything checks out in that area.

Computer
Asrock 770 extreme motherboard
AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor 3.20 GHz
8 GB RAM
64 Bit Windows 7 Ultimate

I'll check out that link and see if it helps
Thanks


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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048851 - 18/05/13 12:41 PM
This is the result of the scan,
Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

On Fri 5/17/2013 10:01:38 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\051813-27953-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: wdf01000.sys (Wdf01000+0x49989)
Bugcheck code: 0x10D (0x8, 0x57FF5C8C858, 0x4, 0xFFFFFA8008FC5590)
Error: WDF_VIOLATION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\wdf01000.sys
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime
Bug check description: This indicates that Kernel-Mode Driver Framework (KMDF) detected that Windows found an error in a framework-based driver.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system that cannot be identified at this time.
I have checked again that the drivers are up to date but have also discovered that I am not the only one having this problem but so far I can not find a fix for it


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Scramble
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Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 2147
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048862 - 18/05/13 01:48 PM
If I was in your desperate situation I would just replace the audio interfaces. I'd buy RME -- although RME are no more immune to problems than every other audio interface company they have a bit of a better track record, and they keep their drivers very up-to-date.

It would also be worth trying a new Firewire card. Although you have the TI chip sometimes another chip can solve things. Also worth trying new Firewire cables (this is clutching at straws a bit, I know, but some people have found that their cables are to blame).

What are the ADATs you mention? It's not very clear what's going on here -- can you explain what you have and how it is all connected up?

Alternatively get someone like Scan to build you a new machine with interfaces, and let them handle the issue of making sure everything works. This is an expensive option, I know, but it might actually save you some money in the end (maybe not, you're in the best position to decide that). You can then sell your old computer and audio interfaces separately (all are likely to be fine in themselves, it sounds like it's just some combinmation of things going on in your system that is the problem).


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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Scramble]
      #1048873 - 18/05/13 02:55 PM
Well that is not a solution I would probably be buying into another group of problems because this problem is also present in other peoples computers who don't run firewire or these soundcards. From all the information I can gather it is a windows problem in the driver framework.
As for building a new computer Why? it is a perfectly good computer in every other way.
Selling and buying new soundcards is not the answer either. The reason I chose these soundcards was the fact that they gave me high quality External Effects which in any studio is a plus. Also I would lose at least 20% of there value selling them and probably still have the same problem.


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Scramble
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Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 2147
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048876 - 18/05/13 04:07 PM
Quote Russell B:

Well that is not a solution I would probably be buying into another group of problems because this problem is also present in other peoples computers who don't run firewire or these soundcards. From all the information I can gather it is a windows problem in the driver framework.




Might have helped if you'd mentioned that, as well as your basis for thinking it. As well as giving us more information to start with about your system.

Quote Russell B:

As for building a new computer Why? it is a perfectly good computer in every other way.




Why? Because you have paying clients waiting who aren't going to wait areound forever for you to fix your problems. Also... ah, forget it. Good luck.


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Tombot



Joined: 09/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Scan Pro Audio
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048895 - 18/05/13 07:30 PM
Quote Russell B:

The Firewire card is a Texas Instrument card and everything checks out in that area.

Computer
Asrock 770 extreme motherboard
AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor 3.20 GHz
8 GB RAM
64 Bit Windows 7 Ultimate

I'll check out that link and see if it helps
Thanks




Ok, sounds like a firewire driver issue.
Please check that you are on the legacy driver, instructions here

Try a different pcie slot for the firewire card if you still dont get any joy.

--------------------
www.theautobots.com / www.scan.co.uk


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 947
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Tombot]
      #1048900 - 18/05/13 07:59 PM
Pretty sure the MR816 uses Steinberg-supplied FW drivers, not Windows built-in drivers.

Wonder if it might be a bug in Cubase 7 rather than a driver issue (or something Cubase is doing which results in there occurring a driver issue)? If not done so already, might try contacting Steinberg support and posting in the Cubase forums, seeing as how Steinberg hardware and software are both involved.

Edit: Just noticed the crash dump above refers to

Quote:

file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\wdf01000.sys




which is a 32-bit Windows file, although the system is running Win7 64. Hmm...

And just to confirm, are the MR816s daisy-chained to a single port on the FW interface (not connected to separate individual FW ports)?

Edited by Goddard (18/05/13 08:20 PM)


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Tombot



Joined: 09/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Scan Pro Audio
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Goddard]
      #1048905 - 18/05/13 08:38 PM
Quote Goddard:

Pretty sure the MR816 uses Steinberg-supplied FW drivers, not Windows built-in drivers.





The legacy driver is for the firewire controller card, not the interface, steinberg wont have anything to do with it.

--------------------
www.theautobots.com / www.scan.co.uk


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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Tombot]
      #1048916 - 18/05/13 11:53 PM
I have not studied all your replies as I've been mixing the band but I will look into everything that has been suggested tomorrow and check out all the suggestions made.
Thank you for the help I think somewhere I will find the solution.

Cheers


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Goddard



Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 947
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Tombot]
      #1048926 - 19/05/13 04:42 AM
Quote Tombot:

Quote Goddard:

Pretty sure the MR816 uses Steinberg-supplied FW drivers, not Windows built-in drivers.





The legacy driver is for the firewire controller card, not the interface, steinberg wont have anything to do with it.




Sorry that came across wrong, was responding to earlier post by the OP wrt WDF being the problem:

Quote:

this problem is also present in other peoples computers who don't run firewire or these soundcards. From all the information I can gather it is a windows problem in the driver framework.




FWIW re legacy FW driver, a quick search found this in Steinberg's knowledgebase:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_sho w/mr816-resolving-audio-performance-issues/kb_back/2020.html?tx_p77sbknowledgebase_pi1[pro ductfamily]=12&tx_p77sbknowledgebase_pi1[product]=157

Quote:


Windows 7 only:

Windows 7 replaces previous FireWire bus drivers of earlier Windows versions. Although this usually will not cause any trouble when using the MR816, you might want to try the following in case of troubles with proper functioning of the MR816:

a. In Windows 7 open up the Device Manager.
b. Expand the "IEEE 1394 Bus-Hostcontroller" entry and right-click on your "Hostcontroller" entry. The name will vary from system to system. Select "Update driver software...".
c. Select "Browse my computer for driver software" and select "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer". Make sure to check the box "Show compatible hardware".
d. Select "1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy)" and click "Next". Now the driver will be updated.
e. Check if the MR816 now works properly.




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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
Posts: 41
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Goddard]
      #1048954 - 19/05/13 10:31 AM
OK I have checked out the link you posted and did 2 things.
I changed the firewire card driver to the legacy driver and also discovered that in the Utility program that comes with the Yamaha drivers I had the setting on small where as the recomended setting for what I am doing should probably be large as with a minimum of 20 tracks in most of my live recordings I am probably over loading the firewire buffer.
Also I set the buffer on the soundcards to max as latency in live recording is not an issue.
Maybe these things will help I will know tonight as I have another band to record though they only require 17 channels which is not such a big load.
Thanks Goddard with all the stress it is easy to forget to check some simple things though the firewire card has been operating with the old Motu cards without a problem even recording 32 tracks at once but a change of hardware can change a lot of things. Also I have a feeling that the firewire buffer settings in the Utility program from Yamaha might have been causing some of the problem as well


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Russell B
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Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048980 - 19/05/13 02:46 PM
Well after 2 hrs recording 32 channels there has been no crash, though the real test comes now. The band is there and the computer must keep going for the next 9 hours. Hopefully I can post a message at 2am tomorrow that it all worked.
I really have a feeling that it was the firewire driver.


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Brisound



Joined: 12/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1048994 - 19/05/13 04:29 PM
Great to see that you've (apparently) fixed your problem. Installing new things to your computer can always lead to unexpected results unfortunately. Hopefully it'll stay fixed

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Hire Sound Equipment Brisbane


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Russell B
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Joined: 23/07/03
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Re: HELP Computer keeps crashing new [Re: Russell B]
      #1049068 - 20/05/13 08:33 AM
Well a trouble free night and I think it's going to stay that way. The big problem with what happened is that the computer was telling me and everyone else who looked at my computer that the firewire driver was up to date so automatically one assumes that that is not the problem.
Thank you everyone for your help this forum can be a God send.

Cheers Russell


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