Main Forums >> Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Tubular Bells in FLAC
      #1012419 - 08/10/12 04:34 PM
Bowers and Wilkins are offering an exclusive high-res FLAC download (24 bit -- they don't say what the sample rate is) of Tubular bells in stereo and surround formats. £20 for both... only available to people in the UK, France and Germany.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Tu bular_Bells.html

I presume these are the remastered versions put out on SACD a while ago...

Lots of duff hi-fi monkey information about digital audio on the company website, which is disappointing...

Anyway, following the previous threads about high quality downloads, I thought some folk might be interested...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
oggyb



Joined: 09/02/08
Posts: 1617
Loc: Leeds, UK
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1012424 - 08/10/12 05:09 PM
hnnnnnnnngh

--------------------
Composer;
www.ogonline.org


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
M.A.D.



Joined: 25/12/08
Posts: 9
Loc: den Bosch, Netherlands
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1014760 - 21/10/12 07:36 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

only available to people in the UK, France and Germany
H



G*DAMN M*THERF*CKERS!

--------------------
Mental Audio Deviations


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9349
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1014795 - 22/10/12 07:34 AM
Good call Hugh. We now need one for Dark Side of the Moon.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
PG's SO in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1016756 - 02/11/12 11:35 AM
B&W are now offering the Peter Gabriel SO album in 24 bit FLAC:

HERE

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Theremax



Joined: 10/02/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Between reality and dream
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Zukan]
      #1016757 - 02/11/12 11:38 AM
Quote Zukan:

Good call Hugh. We now need one for Dark Side of the Moon.




Oh, yes!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
mjfe2



Joined: 11/10/09
Posts: 616
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1017036 - 04/11/12 06:13 PM
But if these are still only 44.1 then all we're getting is a lower noise floor? And could we really turn up the volume of the 16-bit version such that the noise floor becomes an audible problem during the quiet bits and the loudest bits are still below the threshold of pain?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: mjfe2]
      #1017044 - 04/11/12 06:42 PM
Quote mjfe2:

But if these are still only 44.1 then all we're getting is a lower noise floor?




I doubt you're even getting that! The noise floor is far more likely to have been determined by the source recordings and mixing than the output medium.

But what you are getting is a guaranteed accurate audio file, with no CD-style interpolation whatsoever.

Quote:

And could we really turn up the volume of the 16-bit version such that the noise floor becomes an audible problem during the quiet bits and the loudest bits are still below the threshold of pain?!




Not in most cases!

The typical ambient noise floor of a quiet suburban living room is about 30dB SPL. If you set the replay noise floor of a 16 bit system to the same sort of level, peaks will be around 93dB higher, which is 123dB SPL at the listening position.

Not many project studio speakers are able to deliver anything like that, and few neighbours would tolerate it for long either!

And that, m'lud, is why 16 bit replay formats are entirely appropriate for fully mastered material where there is no headroom margin, and why 24 bit systems are entirely pointless in that role at the moment.

Of course, if loudness normalisation standards are adopted across the music industry, then headroom will reaappear in commercially released material and 24 bit systems would then become much more relevant for the end user. But what are the chances of that happening?

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
narcoman
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8519
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1017049 - 04/11/12 07:48 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:


.

But what you are getting is a guaranteed accurate audio file, with no CD-style interpolation whatsoever.


H



I assume you mean from clipped waves rather than declaring FLAC some new analogue format!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: narcoman]
      #1017051 - 04/11/12 08:10 PM
I mean what I said!

A corrupted CD would lead to data interpolation, and that can't happen with a FLAC file... But I cant see any other advantage.

FLAC is obviously not an analogue format (!!!!), and both formats will suffer clipped waves if the mastering has created inter-sample peaks.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
narcoman
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8519
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1017104 - 05/11/12 10:38 AM
All digital data is interpolated. Via the rebuild through the implemention of it's sinc function. The CD spec referring to sample guesstimation as interpolation is a mild misuse of the term (and us maths people are pretty annoyed at computer peoples misuse of many terms. We're thinking about having a fight at break time). interpolation is a method of constructing new data points within the range of a discrete set of known data points. That's what I was getting at. Never liked CD error guesses being referred to as interpolated points.

Worse can happen with a FLAC file - if it's corrupt beyond Hamming (or similar) repair you is screweth'd.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: narcoman]
      #1017109 - 05/11/12 11:08 AM
Quote narcoman:

All digital data is interpolated.




Different use of the term -- I was referring to the final stage of error concealment that all CD players impose on damaged discs.

The 'I' word is a constant source of confusion to everyone, and is probably best avoided completely!

...As far as I'm concerned, use of the term 'interpolation' when referring to the sinc function reconstruction of digital audio is very unhelpful as it is associated in the minds of most with 'guessing', which isn't what happens as you well know. The dictionary definition familiar to most is along the lines of 'to corrupt by spurious insertions' -- guessing, in other words.

However, the mathematicians' definition is of 'filling in as an intermediate term' and while that is technically accurate, it is ludicrously vague -- are you calulating the value using sinc functions, or are you drawing a straight line between two known points and taking a crude average? The inherent ambiguity over the form of calculation and the level of precision involved must perplex even the mathematicians, and it is certainly deeply unsatisfying to a pedantic engineer like me!

Quote:

Worse can happen with a FLAC file - if it's corrupt beyond Hamming (or similar) repair you is screweth'd.




This is true of all error protection systems -- there is always a level of damage beyond which the data can not be recovered intact, as you know. However, the error protection capability of pure computer file formats is far, far more robust than the CD-audio format which was designed in the full expectation of using concealment as a routine part of the error correction process.

The original point I raised when we started this remains, though, the advantages of the FLAC format are marginal...

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 2990
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1039675 - 24/03/13 09:30 PM
http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/music/remastering-peter-gabriels-so/
Glad to see they did the same things with mastering "So" as they did in 1986, but with better converters. The changes on the 2002 remaster really did not work IMHO. Ian Cooper. What a pro- still had his notes from 1986. I think he did the same thing with David Sylvian's "Secrets of the Beehive" (which sounds superb in 16 bit CD) and the Culture Club remasters. We need more people like this...

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Tomás Mulcahy]
      #1039725 - 25/03/13 09:40 AM
I know Ian and he is a true pro with amazing ears! Glad to see some sense being injected back into the mastering world with a realisation that the demand for more of everything is self-defeating. Impressive and encouraging to see Gabriel to admit he got it wrong with the direction he set for the 2002 remaster, and to return to less compression and cleaner sonics.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 2990
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1039888 - 26/03/13 12:00 PM
It would be very cool if SOS did a feature on Ian's work!

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
The Korff
Loose Cannon (Reviews Editor)


Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 2384
Loc: The Wrong Precinct
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1039893 - 26/03/13 12:15 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

he is a true pro with amazing ears!




I have been racking my brain trying to think of any other context in which this would be an even remotely normal thing to say, and the only one I can think of is in the world of earring modelling.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
molecular
member


Joined: 13/12/03
Posts: 741
Loc: north a bit, west a bit
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: The Korff]
      #1039900 - 26/03/13 12:46 PM
Quote Korff:

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

he is a true pro with amazing ears!




I have been racking my brain trying to think of any other context in which this would be an even remotely normal thing to say, and the only one I can think of is in the world of earring modelling.




Casting session for an Andrew Marr biopic?

--------------------
Anto mo Ninja, Watashi mo Ninja
http://www.hectormacinnes.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22131
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Tubular Bells in FLAC new [Re: The Korff]
      #1039951 - 26/03/13 04:23 PM
yes... perhaps that didn't come out quite right...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
2 registered and 8 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor 
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating: ***
Thread views: 5264

November 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for November 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media