Main Forums >> Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
Innocent_Bystander



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 14
Zoom h2n level problem
      #1019114 - 18/11/12 09:51 AM
Hi,

The bass player in our band recently bought a Zoom h2n recorder for use recording our band rehearsals. We're a simple four piece rock band; necessarily because there's a drummer involved, but certainly not excessive.

We're having huge difficulty getting a level that doesn't clip.

There's a mic level control and I would expect this to completely mute the mic at it's lowest setting, but it doesn't seem to do so. With the level control rolled all the way down, the mic is still clipping regularly.

There are various compression and limiting settings and we tried all of these, but with no success.

I've read the manual cover to cover and we've searched online, but nobody else seems to be having these issues.

So, I can only assume we're either missing/ ignoring a crucial setting somewhere or the unit is faulty (it's brand new).

Before we try to adjust some settings with a hammer, I wonder if anyone here has one of these recorders and might know what we're doing wrong.

Thanks in advance!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Honeyboy



Joined: 26/09/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Cambridge
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019139 - 18/11/12 12:57 PM
Press MENU, Select INPUT, Select COMP/LIMITER, Choose LIMIT2(CONCERT) - Limiter for live performance.

Make sure you are recording in an uncompressed WAV, 24 bit format.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Innocent_Bystander



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 14
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019140 - 18/11/12 01:20 PM
Hello Honeyboy,

Thanks for your reply. We tried the various limiting options, including the CONCERT one, but no success unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure it's set for 24 bit WAV, but I'll double check tomorrow (don't have the unit in front of me right now). Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm confused why setting the gain control to zero still results in any level at all. I would have thought the range of the control would include starting at -infinity and working up from there. I'd assume that would provide the widest range to work with.

If you have this unit, does yours still give level when the gain control is at it's lowest setting?

Thanks again for your suggestions!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Honeyboy



Joined: 26/09/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Cambridge
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019157 - 18/11/12 03:20 PM
Sounds like you may be using the line-in inputs with external mics instead of the built in mics? Even when dialed down to zero, the H2n line input is uncontrollably over-sensitive.

The line in and built in mic inputs are both controlled by the mic gain wheel, but even when the mic gain wheel is lowered to 0 the line in is very sensitive and over prone to clipping.

Use the built in mics, make sure Auto Gain is set to OFF, and move the device further away from the sound source if the levels are still too hot.

I've recorded several very loud bands with this device, all with good results.

With the analogue mic gain turned all the way down, there is still a small signal going to the internal mics. This is perfectly normal. It is designed to give you finer control over the useable range of gain, rather than work as an on off volume control.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Innocent_Bystander



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 14
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019161 - 18/11/12 03:54 PM
Hello Honeyboy,

It's the internal mic(s) we're using, nothing external at all. I did read somewhere that the line input is pretty hot, almost exactly the problem we're having with the internal mic. At least using an external mic there's an option to pad it down before it comes in. But, the idea was to find a simple one box solution, so we'd rather not get into external mics (although I appreciate that's not what you're suggesting).

There's not really space to move the mic much further than we already have and I'm confident that we're not stupidly loud, certainly less so than the average pub band. It's really very strange.

Thanks very much for your suggesting so far. If anything else comes to mind, please do let me know.

Thanks!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Smellthevalve



Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Surrey, UK
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019195 - 18/11/12 07:41 PM
The manual quotes the mics being able to handle 120 dB spl so the distortion issue should not be happening.
However have you got this http://www.zoom.co.jp/downloads/h2n/software/
update as it suggests solving a problem with distortion in surround sound recording mode?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Innocent_Bystander



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 14
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Smellthevalve]
      #1019203 - 18/11/12 08:46 PM
Quote Smellthevalve:

However have you got this http://www.zoom.co.jp/downloads/h2n/software/
update as it suggests solving a problem with distortion in surround sound recording mode?




No, hadn't seen that, thank you! I can't check the firmware version because the unit is with it's owner, but that looks very interesting. I'll check it out and let you know.

No, there's no way we're 120dB!

Thanks again!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3140
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019204 - 18/11/12 09:02 PM
I've got the H4 (forerunner of the H4N) and it will distort from the internal microphones in a band practice, when powered from the batteries, no matter what settings are used. There is a thread on here somewhere about it.

The solution is to power from the external p.s.u.

I don't think it's the microphones distorting. I think its the pre-amps: not enough juice from the batteries. By the time it gets to the AD converters, the signal is mush.

Try the PSU.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Honeyboy



Joined: 26/09/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Cambridge
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019209 - 18/11/12 09:24 PM
I'm running latest firmware 1.10, and I've never ever needed to use the built in limiter when recording a live band rehearsal (or had a problem with preamp distortion on batteries).

I updated the firmware in my unit to 1.10 before I first used the recorder, so I would guess that is probably where your problem lies..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Jorge
member


Joined: 13/12/03
Posts: 377
Loc: New York, NY
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019236 - 19/11/12 06:39 AM
Hold the hammer for a minute. I have the old H2 but on the picture of the H2n the setup looks the same. There are 2 level controls that affect the mic input. The volume key that shows change in level on the screen is on one side of the unit. On the other side is a 3 position switch Mic Gain L/M/H, located between the external mic input and the line level input. I found that unless that switch is set to L, live music always clips the mic. The volume key still adjusts the record level numerically on the screen even when the Mic Gain is on L. Have you set that switch to L?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Innocent_Bystander



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 14
Re: Zoom h2n level problem new [Re: Innocent_Bystander]
      #1019253 - 19/11/12 10:14 AM
Hello!

Thanks for the replies overnight, really appreciated.

I've forwarded the link to the updates to our bass player and hopefully he'll get that installed today and we can try it out tonight. I'll also bring along a PSU so we can power it from the mains in case it's that.

Jorge, thanks for your suggestion. I don't have the unit in front of me, but from the images I can find online the H2n doesn't have the level switch that the H2 has. That's a shame, it would be very helpful in this situation!

Thanks again for your help guys, it's very good of you.

Cheers!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
1 registered and 25 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor 
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 4321

November 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for November 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media