Main Forums >> Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1774
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line?
      #1025856 - 25/12/12 02:54 PM
Hello, and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to everyone!

Since there's not a newbie forum, I'm afraid I need to ask in here ... apologies ahead of time.

I have a vocal track where the singer will usually start phrases low and scoop up to the actual melody note. "Elvis has left the building", so there's no changing the lead vocal line.

If you were about to record an overdub background singer in the studio, would you advise they start their harmony note at the beginning of the scoop, or rather at the end (where the true melody note begins)?

I've listened to some country tracks (where that kind of lead vocal is not uncommon) but haven't been able to figure that out definitively ... I think it's the latter case, but my cardboard ears got damaged in shipping from Sears & Roebucks, so I can't quite tell!


Thanks for any help/suggestions!

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3328
Loc: Norwich UK
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1025857 - 25/12/12 03:03 PM
Quote alexis:

If you were about to record an overdub background singer in the studio, would you advise they start their harmony note at the beginning of the scoop, or rather at the end (where the true melody note begins)?



I'd probably start by listening to what they do naturally and see if it works. But I doubt if attempting to match another singer's bad habits is a good idea!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1774
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: BJG145]
      #1026019 - 27/12/12 08:21 PM
Quote BJG145:

Quote alexis:

If you were about to record an overdub background singer in the studio, would you advise they start their harmony note at the beginning of the scoop, or rather at the end (where the true melody note begins)?



I'd probably start by listening to what they do naturally and see if it works. But I doubt if attempting to match another singer's bad habits is a good idea!




Good advice, thanks, BJG145!

None of the background singer notes are scooped, the real question is whether they should start their single background notes at the beginning of the lead vocal "scoop", or wait till the lead vocal settles in before starting the background note.

So far it seems the second option is working best - lead vox scoops as a solo, then the background vox joins it a moment later, after it has settled in.

Just wondering how other folks have handled this (those that happen to record singers of this quality!).

Thanks -

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Adam Inglis



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 372
Loc: Gold Coast Queensland Australi...
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026048 - 28/12/12 03:03 AM
My 2 cents:
generally the BG vox should not have too much "character" i.e. not compete with the "star". So usually it works best that the BGVs hit the right note from the start. The wee bit of signposting that this creates usually adds some anticipation, but I guess in some cases it could clash, so, as always, use your ears...

--------------------
Adam Inglis
Funboys


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9387
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026076 - 28/12/12 11:24 AM
I agree with Adam. BVs are about blending with the mix and providing a solid foundation for the more 'artistic' lead vocal to sit over. Ideally I'd want the BVs to be under-performed, devoid of scoops, bends and with as little vibrato as possible.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1774
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026233 - 29/12/12 02:30 PM
Boy, am I doing a poor job of wording my question!

I should have emphasized there's no question of the harmony vocals doing any scooping. Straight notes without vibrato only for them.

The question is the timing of entry of the BVs. If the lead vox starts its scoop at Time "A", then finds its steady note a moment later at Time "B" - I'm wondering about whether most people* would have the background harmony note begin at "A" or "B".

I've tried both, it sounds a little better when the harmony voice comes in at "B", but there's something I can't put my finger on that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe there are other standard options that people* try? ... For example, having the BV come in at "A" but at lower volume and fading up to full volume by "B"? Or ...

* ... understanding this is a question born out of working with "project studio-quality" singers, and that not many here are blessed with those challenges ...

Thanks once again for your consideration!

--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
britney
active member


Joined: 17/10/02
Posts: 3029
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026636 - 01/01/13 07:58 PM
Start them off on the beat would be my first guess. You don't say if time A is on the beat or early or late. But a lot of people in that style tend to start the slide a little ahead of the beat, with a view to arriving in tune at the most impactful moment (T.Rex style).

If that is not working out, you could try BVs only on the later phrases of the lines.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3197
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026646 - 01/01/13 09:01 PM
It's very difficult to give you a sensible answer without hearing what else is going on. The 'norms' (eugh!) of the style might suggest something reminiscent of previously successful devices.

As already alluded to BVs tend to be part of the supporting structure (a la Bob Marley or Motown) than 'free spirits', that's usually the job of the lead vocal but there could just as well be something in the lead vocal that might be worth making a feature of by nailing the BVs to it.

As always, if it sounds right - it's right.

Can we have a listen?

--------------------
Dear Mr God,
We called but you were out - B Dylan Deliveries (Intntl)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Bossman
active member


Joined: 30/09/02
Posts: 1616
Loc: UK
Re: How would you ask a background singer to accompany a "scoop up"-type lead vocal line? new [Re: alexis]
      #1026655 - 01/01/13 10:04 PM
there is only one answer to this.. whatever works with the music.

--------------------
www.Lozjackson.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
3 registered and 71 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor 
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 1818

August 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for August 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media