Can anyone recommend a good all-in-one portable CD player/USB/ipod thingy that sounds good and costs under £500, or even better under £300. It would be ideal good if the spkrs can be separated. Thanks in advance.

An Arcam rcube or B&W Zepplin mini are about £300 and sound good. No detachable speakers tho.

If you have up to £500 you can get a real hifi but this wont be portable but you just need to add an iphone adapter.

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http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash

Well it certainly doesn't play CDs, but my tip for a 'play any format and not restricted by the likes of Microsoft/Apple' is an Archos player. I use an Archos 48 these days. I wouldn't ever want to be without it. 500GB of audio, video, or anything else *I* choose to put on it. Plays Flac and Wav too.

It has a tiny built-in speaker, but you can use external speakers if you like, or plug it into a hi-fi, car stereo, or the like.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Many thanks for the tips. I'll check these out.

Quote The Elf:

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I use an Archos 48 these days. I wouldn't ever want to be without it. 500GB of audio, video, or anything else *I* choose to put on it. Plays Flac and Wav too.

It has a tiny built-in speaker, but you can use external speakers if you like, or plug it into a hi-fi, car stereo, or the like.

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Wow, these seem to be discontinued, but a few people still seem to be advertising them for around £150


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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I think it's probably as Apple arguably seem to market iPods as a fashionable accessory. For my daughter her 'need' to have an ipod over and above any other player is nothing to do with music quality etc but because she recognises, and wants to be associated with, the brand image. It kind of reminds me of my sister-in-law in reverse. She doesn't care about what a hifi sounds like or what features it has, her major stipulation is that it can be hidden away in a cupboard. For my daughter it's about being seen. Conspicuous consumption as Veblin put it...

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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Quote The Elf:

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Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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I think it's probably as Apple arguably seem to market iPods as a fashionable accessory. For my daughter her 'need' to have an ipod over and above any other player is nothing to do with music quality etc but because she recognises, and wants to be associated with, the brand image. It kind of reminds me of my sister-in-law in reverse. She doesn't care about what a hifi sounds like or what features it has, her major stipulation is that it can be hidden away in a cupboard. For my daughter it's about being seen. Conspicuous consumption as Veblin put it...

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Welcome to the world of consumer products! Try not to impose your views of these purchases onto other people. I have a weakness for old Alfas, British sports cars and Italian motorcycles. Not the most reliable but I enjoy them. I live in London so I am never far from a tube or bus so who cares? I like they way they go when they go (which is actually most of the time!) and I like they way they look. Would any of these be your first choice of vehicle? If yes, I will sell you one and if no then you might value load carrying or economy more. Neither is wrong, its just horses for courses.

Look how big Apple is and how well Archos are doing and tell me who is right?!?!?!?

/\
Risky comments considering you have a PhD in Philosophy.........

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http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash

Edited by fay spook (25/01/13 04:49 PM)

I'm not sure where I was imposing my views Fay and I apologise if I was. I thought that I included enough caveats to leave the issue open.

Fortunately for me my thesis was concerned with phenomenology of desire and Hegel and Bataille specifically. A risky work in itself and full of risky comments.

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

My other half wanted an iPod dock last year and I went for a listen around John Lewis. Many of the little mini systems could accept iPods and without exception they all sounded better than the iPod docks and cost significantly less. I came away with the conclusion that if it is called an IPod dock you can add at least £100-£150 on the price. If it looks coooool it will sell more than if it sounds good. And that people must care more about whether it is an 'iPod Dock' than whether you can dock your iPod to it.

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Daniel Davis
Edinburgh Recording Studio Windmill Sound

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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I'm not sure where I was imposing my views Fay and I apologise if I was. I thought that I included enough caveats to leave the issue open.

Fortunately for me my thesis was concerned with phenomenology of desire and Hegel and Bataille specifically. A risky work in itself and full of risky comments.

---

Thanks for being polite. And for adding some gravity to the debate by making me use Google to get a grasp of what you studied.

I hope you got my points and I understand where you are coming from.

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http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash

Quote The Elf:

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Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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All comes down to who will spend the big bucks on marketing. Apple, whatever els they are, are masters of this, and spend hughe sums creating campaigns to convince everyone they must have that product. (Of course it helps if the product is actually pretty good to start with, and more so if it is very pretty too)

Compare the mobile phone world.

How many android smartphones out there are there with almost identical specs. They all look the same, they all work the same, but somehow the Samsung Galaxy S3 is the one everyone (who doesn't want an iphone) wants.

Yes some have brighter screens, faster processors, are thinner, lighter, and indeed cheaper, but they are not the one that all the posters, magazines, and tv ads tell them they must have.

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New album 'Fantasy Bridge' available now!
Making of Fantasy Bridge Diary

I don't know. You ask about domestic stereo and get Hegel and phenomenology. Don't you just love internet forums. (Hi Tony - hope you're well).

Still haven't found the right system though. I want it be portable, play CDs and have a USB port and sound good. I thought it'd be easy but maybe not.

Quote The Elf:

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Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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I'd say a primary requirement from such a device is that, whatever management software is supplied and recommended, it should on a basic level plug in to any computer, preferably on a standard USB connector, and allow you to directly move music files on and off it.

Anything that will only "synchronize" using a particular application, to a specified "registered" computer isn't even on my short-list.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Anything that will only "synchronize" using a particular application, to a specified "registered" computer isn't even on my short-list.

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The iDevices can "synchronize", but there is no requirement to use them that way. I prefer to just drag'n'drop stuff onto the device.

I know that, when teaching vocal lines to a room-full of actors, they seem completely incapable of sharing a recording one has made on an iThing, other than by taking it home, connecting to their computer and burning a CD. And I can't bring in a rehearsal track on MY computer and easily dump it to each of their individual devices. They, quite sensibly, refuse to plug in to anything other than their own home computer lest iTunes jumps up and "synchronizes" their music collection out of existence. Everyone I know seems to have been caught out that way at least once, and had to re-create their music collection. Particularly when their computer dies, along with their iTunes library. They have some weird idea that "It's OK, it's backed up on my iPod!" Then they connect it to the new computer.... (Yes, I know. But these are consumers, not tecchies...)

On a related topic - is there anything I can do for a friend with a dead iPod and, she says, no available library copy on computer (don't know quite how she managed that?) Assuming there's a possibility the internal storage is still alive, can it be taken out and connected to a computer as an external drive, as you would a hard drive from a defunct computer?

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote The Elf:

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Yes, ridiculously cheap, largely because the world runs after iPods. I don't get it - the Archos runs rings around the iPod, but you just can't tell people. Somehow Archos have never seemed able to make their devices properly understood.

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I'd say a primary requirement from such a device is that, whatever management software is supplied and recommended, it should on a basic level plug in to any computer, preferably on a standard USB connector, and allow you to directly move music files on and off it.

Anything that will only "synchronize" using a particular application, to a specified "registered" computer isn't even on my short-list.

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I couldn't agree more. And this is a prime reason for me choosing and using an Archos. It has no special software, no requirement to sync, and can play most 'standard' compressed/uncompressed formats without telling me I need to convert it.

I don't want to be dictated to by *any* 'special' software!

You can run it as a Media Device (which Windows Media Player will recognise and sync with, if you like that sort of thing), or run it as a hard drive, in which case you can just copy anything you like to it without restriction - no software required.

It's also why I'd suggest a CD player is unimportant, since I can play wav, aiff, FLAC, mp3, wav... So just rip your CDs in any format you like.

I can even play raw VOB files copied straight from a DVD!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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...since I can play wav, aiff, FLAC, mp3, wav... So just rip your CDs in any format you like.

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...but not AAC, or ALAC.

Sadly, the truly universal device still doesn't exist... and I don't suppose it ever will.

The Archos units are nice in many ways and offer some worthwile advantages over Apple's iPods etc, but equally they lack features that are standard in those iOS devices and which are very important to a sizable part of the market -- including the auto-syncing functions and DRM file protection!

Each to their own.

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote The Elf:

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...since I can play wav, aiff, FLAC, mp3, wav... So just rip your CDs in any format you like.

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...but not AAC, or ALAC.

Sadly, the truly universal device still doesn't exist... and I don't suppose it ever will.

The Archos units are nice in many ways and offer some worthwile advantages over Apple's iPods etc, but equally they lack features that are important to some -- which includes the auto-syncing and DRM for many!

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Autosync works fine from Media Player *if* you want it. I don't want it, but it does work.

And why would an end-user want DRM?

As you say, no device does EVERY format (and expecting that would be naive - and I should have been more careful with my use of the word 'any'!), but I have the main ones covered. Anything that doesn't play MP3 or WAV are the villains of the piece IMO!

(You are the only person I know of that uses ALAC! )

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Autosync works fine from Media Player *if* you want it.

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Fine. The Apple function where song files become available on all linked platforms is a very appealling feature for a lot of my friends. Dunno enough about WMP to know if that offers a similar function.

Quote:

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And why would an end-user want DRM?

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Some end users probably wouldn't -- but the industry players do for obvious reasons and potentially so does everyone involved in content creation.

Quote:

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Anything that doesn't play MP3 or WAV are the villains of the piece IMO!

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Agreed... but there are there any systems that don't meet that basic requirement now?

In many ways WAV is an outdated format too -- not least for its lack of metadata handling facilities and its file size limitations. There are better, more appropriate loss-less file formats that should be universally adopted IMHO.

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote petev3.1:

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I don't know. You ask about domestic stereo and get Hegel and phenomenology. Don't you just love internet forums. (Hi Tony - hope you're well).

Still haven't found the right system though. I want it be portable, play CDs and have a USB port and sound good. I thought it'd be easy but maybe not.

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I'm good and thanks Pete. Hope you're well to(and sorry for the slight thread de-railment earlier...)

Back on topic, my wife looked at this at Christmas although her budget was less than yours. She couldn't find anything that gave her both the audio quality and all the features that she wanted. She liked the Arcam rCube but it was too expensive for her. I think it's in your budget but Idon't however think it has all the features that you want.

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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And I can't bring in a rehearsal track on MY computer and easily dump it to each of their individual devices. They, quite sensibly, refuse to plug in to anything other than their own home computer lest iTunes jumps up and "synchronizes" their music collection out of existence. Everyone I know seems to have been caught out that way at least once, and had to re-create their music collection. Particularly when their computer dies, along with their iTunes library. They have some weird idea that "It's OK, it's backed up on my iPod!" Then they connect it to the new computer.... (Yes, I know. But these are consumers, not tecchies...)

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http://www.yamipod.com/index2.html

But yes, Apple Sync is horrible and with all due respect Hugh I really can't understand how they convinced anyone their way of doing it was a good one. You can manage ( & sync if you really want to) your media libary outside of the Apple garden with something along the lines of media monkey or any of a handful of other apps and it won't randomly choose to wipe your entire device if you plug it into the wrong port.

The Archos players have always been great pieces of kit, its a shame they only focused on high end players back when Apple started out in this market as they were knocking out good quality Mp3 devices way before Apple realised the segment even existed, through were never able to have capitalize upon it. The benefits of branding and having enough clout to convince everyone to sell through the DRM'd secure store won out which whilst as Hugh says was wanted by the industry and worked in getting content into the market place to start with, and yes that in turn kickstarted the sales Elf is right that it's not a feature appreciated or liked by the wider market.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

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But yes, Apple Sync is horrible and with all due respect Hugh I really can't understand how they convinced anyone their way of doing it was a good one.

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I didn't say I thought it was good -- merely pointing out that a lot of people do like it. I do use an iPod, but I have configured iTunes to keep its hands off and I manage the library myself... but then I'm a fussy nerd -- like most of us here, I suspect.

In contrast, I have so many friends who absoltuely rave about the 'magic' of downloading a track to their phone while on the move, and then being able to play it instantly on any of their many other Mac devices when they get home -- and of taking a picture on their phone which their kids can then see on their iPads, and which they can push to their TVs via Airplay...

Of course, there are other (and often technically better) ways of doing the same with other technologies, but Apple make it very easy and addictive for their own niche customer. And it does work well provided you are happy to go along with Apple's view of how things must be.

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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The Apple function where song files become available on all linked platforms is a very appealling feature for a lot of my friends. Dunno enough about WMP to know if that offers a similar function.

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Synclib

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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I'm good and thanks Pete. Hope you're well to(and sorry for the slight thread de-railment earlier...)

Back on topic, my wife looked at this at Christmas although her budget was less than yours. She couldn't find anything that gave her both the audio quality and all the features that she wanted. She liked the Arcam rCube but it was too expensive for her. I think it's in your budget but Idon't however think it has all the features that you want.

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Thanks, and derail away - I'd rather talk Hegel than hi fi. But I do need to find something to recommend to a relation. From the discussion here I can see that I'm completely confused about all this new-fangled playback tech. Is there a link missing from your note above?

There wasn't a link Pete but here's some for you if it helps:

Arcam's own blurb about it -
http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,devices,portable-audio,rcube.htm

Two reviews -
http://www.trustedreviews.com/Arcam-rCube_Portable-Audio_review
and
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/pc-peripheral/3252210/arcam-rcube-revie w/

I think the rrp is now under £350 and on those reviews there are some retailing at £319

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

I dont think the product you want exists. You get portable ipod docks of varying quality, from bad to good, but they wont have a cd player. You get portable cd players but they are £50 portables from back in the day. Or you get non-portable mini hi-fis that have a USB socket but possibly not much ipod integration and unknown sound quality- ie has anyone actually critically listened to one? Finally you get real hi-fi with an ipod dock add on.

mini hifi with usb

As an aside I dont really ask my iMac to do anything with my iPhone. I sync my phone to iTunes every so often on my girlfriend's macbook. It all appears to do what I want. They are all full of features I never use. I have minimal music held digitally so there is nothing much to go wrong. They are all old and just do the jobs I want. Most of the world really doesnt care to learn how to do things and so they appreciate Apples doing it fairly fluidly. They do give me grief when something doesnt work as it should but no worse than my gmail last night. ALSO THE HELP PAGES ARE SH**E on most apps. And I am sure PCs can do the same but I dont have one at home to find out.

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http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash

Hi Pete. Just had a quick word with my wife. From her notes the Arcam did not have a built in CD player. Two makes/models that did have a CD player, USB and so on were a JVC RDN1 and a Cambridge Audio One. She says the JVC was a lot cheaper than the Arcam and the Cambridge. The JVC was in Carrefore for about 100 Euros. The Cambridge was too expensive for her at over 500 Euros not including speakers.

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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but then I'm a fussy nerd -- like most of us here, I suspect.

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Point taken

The thing is that even the none nerds amongst us are catching up with this newfangled technology thing and with every generation that comes through having grown up in a digital world, the more and more they are likely to want to get hands on with it at a less restrictive level.

I read this piece over the weekend which whilst being written by a technically compentent user sums up the state of affairs well at this time. I'm not saying Droid is as easy to use as the Apple kit if you have a living room with the full eco system, but the options with the Droid kit and what you can do with it seem to have overtaken the walled garden of Jobs and usability is improving with each new release, which when coupled with more people being willing to get their hands dirty is perhaps one of the reasons Samsung and the rest are seeing more of the market segment these days.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-16/why-i-might-ditch-my-ip hone-for-an-android

It's an opinion piece but one I feel sums it all up pretty weel at this time. So yeah, whilst I don't disagree with your overall point at this time, I'm not sure how much longer its going to remain relevent in the whole scheme of things.

(starting to wonder if we should fork this thread...)

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

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The thing is that even the none nerds amongst us are catching up with this newfangled technology thing and with every generation that comes through having grown up in a digital world, the more and more they are likely to want to get hands on with it at a less restrictive level.

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You may be right, but I'm not convinced. I know lots of people who find the lack of flexibility imposed by Apple to be a positive thing for them. They are happy to buy fully into Apple-land, foresaking all others, and just live life according to the word of Jobs. They don't want choice; they don't want to make decisions; they don't want to understand the techy stuff. All their decisional energy is spent buying shoes, or male grooming products... They just want to use the apps provided to work with the boxes provided to do what they are allowed to do.

Why would you buy a WD media hub to link your photos to a telly when iCloud and photostream and Apple TV and Airplay already exists and you can buy it from the Apple Store?

To paraphrase from that article, they are more than happy to look at the pretty flowers and are far too myopic to see the bars and barbed wire on the garden walls. They don't want to leave, so why would such things bother them?

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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Hi Pete. Just had a quick word with my wife. From her notes the Arcam did not have a built in CD player. Two makes/models that did have a CD player, USB and so on were a JVC RDN1 and a Cambridge Audio One. She says the JVC was a lot cheaper than the Arcam and the Cambridge. The JVC was in Carrefore for about 100 Euros. The Cambridge was too expensive for her at over 500 Euros not including speakers.

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The JVC is a "ghettoblaster" restyled. Look at the basic spec, 3W a side at 10% distortion with 9cm drivers.

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http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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Hi Pete. Just had a quick word with my wife. From her notes the Arcam did not have a built in CD player. Two makes/models that did have a CD player, USB and so on were a JVC RDN1 and a Cambridge Audio One. She says the JVC was a lot cheaper than the Arcam and the Cambridge. The JVC was in Carrefore for about 100 Euros. The Cambridge was too expensive for her at over 500 Euros not including speakers.

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Thanks. The Audo One sounds like a possibility. I'll go check.

But I think maybe what someone said above is correct, that what I want doesn't exist.

Quote Tony O'Shea:

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Fortunately for me my thesis was concerned with phenomenology of desire and Hegel and Bataille specifically.

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This seems eminently suitable to a discussion of Apple, a company built on instilling in their customers a fetishistic desire to consume thin shiny expensive silver things.

As for a cheap Hi-Fi, I bought an LG mini with stereo speakers. Has a CD-player, FM radio, iPod dock (ugh), plays from USB stick, and has AUX in for my laptop. Does not support FLAC or WAV, does not even have a balance control, and has some proprietary speaker plug things. But it cost me less than a stupid AM radio quality dock. Was half the price of a Denon, twice the looks of a JVC.

I'd rate the sound as "mid-fi". Surprisingly unawful.

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"The Drones" now available on BandCamp through Stolen Mirror.

Let us know how you get on Pete as I'm sure my wife will be interested!

Robin - i-Pod as la part maudite. Like it!

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Senior mastering engineer - MiroMastering
www.miromastering.com

Quote petev3.1:

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I don't know. You ask about domestic stereo and get Hegel and phenomenology. Don't you just love internet forums. (Hi Tony - hope you're well).

Still haven't found the right system though. I want it be portable, play CDs and have a USB port and sound good. I thought it'd be easy but maybe not.

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Sounds like you need a MAC with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24..... does all of the above and more

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Lol. Saffire yes. Mac not keen.

Many thanks for all the thoughts. I will report back...

Quote robin746:

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Quote Tony O'Shea:

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Fortunately for me my thesis was concerned with phenomenology of desire and Hegel and Bataille specifically.

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This seems eminently suitable to a discussion of Apple, a company built on instilling in their customers a fetishistic desire to consume thin shiny expensive silver things.

As for a cheap Hi-Fi, I bought an LG mini with stereo speakers. Has a CD-player, FM radio, iPod dock (ugh), plays from USB stick, and has AUX in for my laptop. Does not support FLAC or WAV, does not even have a balance control, and has some proprietary speaker plug things. But it cost me less than a stupid AM radio quality dock. Was half the price of a Denon, twice the looks of a JVC.

I'd rate the sound as "mid-fi". Surprisingly unawful.

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Thanks. It seems very nearly the right thing, and cheap as well. Maybe too much so. But if it sounds surprisingly unawful that should be okay. But no wav playback from USB rules it out. Seems like it's just mp3s.