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colinmk



Joined: 15/10/07
Posts: 67
Spill on tom mic management
      #1039412 - 22/03/13 03:23 PM
Hi there,
I made a bad mistake in my recordings recently and recorded the rack tom with far too much spill coming through from the cymbals and pretty much everything. You live and you learn.
Of course I am now trying to mix it and although the tom sound pretty decent in the OH's I a wanting to back it up with a close mic sound.

I do have a clean sample of the tom itself so I am wondering if it is worth replacing with the sample. The problem I have is that this song in particular features 'Keith Moon' style drumming, very fast high tom/snare work, like double rolls on the tom back to snare etc and I am wondering how people who regulary replace drums approach this.

I have tried gating but the spill is just too much for a gate and the spill is so much when I pull my tom fader up to the required level in the mix it effects the OH sound.

Any help is appreciated!


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 20825
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: colinmk]
      #1039415 - 22/03/13 03:55 PM
Rather than use gates, you'd be better off manually editing the tom tracks in the DAW to remove all the audio spill between the wanted hits. You can do this either by editing the actual audio to create isolated clips of tom hits, or use fader automation to do the same thing non-destructively.

You'll need to be a little bit careful about chasing down the tom decays to tail off any spill subtly, but if the bulk of the sound is coming nicely from the overheads anyway, and the close mics are just adding some presence, this should work perfectly well, and you'll lose all that nasty spill completely.

Don't forget to match the close mic panning to the stereo image position in the overheads,and check the phasing of close mics against the overheads to achieve the fullest tone.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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KuRu



Joined: 21/11/12
Posts: 41
Loc: uk liverpool
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: colinmk]
      #1039420 - 22/03/13 04:32 PM
ive used drumagog for this kind of thing in the past but bought toontracks drumtracker when i got superior drummer, defo worth checking out


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Nathan



Joined: 13/09/04
Posts: 1882
Loc: lincolnshire government experi...
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: KuRu]
      #1039465 - 22/03/13 11:33 PM
Quote KuRu:

ive used drumagog for this kind of thing in the past but bought toontracks drumtracker when i got superior drummer, defo worth checking out





Likewise, I use TT Drumtracker for mistakes like this (we lost a floortom close-mic recently at a live gig, but you can hear and trigger it from the Ride mic).

Pity TT are not developing DT further, I'll have to explore Drumagog or Slate now...


>

--------------------
planet nine
lincoln, uk.


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sambrox



Joined: 20/12/08
Posts: 224
Loc: Denmark
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: Nathan]
      #1039475 - 23/03/13 06:16 AM
Quote Nathan:

Quote KuRu:

ive used drumagog for this kind of thing in the past but bought toontracks drumtracker when i got superior drummer, defo worth checking out





Likewise, I use TT Drumtracker for mistakes like this (we lost a floortom close-mic recently at a live gig, but you can hear and trigger it from the Ride mic).

Pity TT are not developing DT further, I'll have to explore Drumagog or Slate now...




Slate's Trigger is the only dedicated drum triggering software I've tried, but have never had a reason to even contemplate anything else!
Comes with great sounding samples, too (although the deluxe add-on absolutely blows them away).
If you ever need new triggering software, give it a whirl.

Cheers,
Sam

--------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sambrox
seedy.dk


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4488
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: colinmk]
      #1039485 - 23/03/13 09:49 AM
Having read the OP's description of the playing style, I'm kinda skeptical triggering software will be any use whatsoever, in this case.


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9161
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: colinmk]
      #1039492 - 23/03/13 10:54 AM
I agree with hugh that the best way to 'gate' a tom track is not to gate it at all, but get down to some careful editing. Once you've done this, if this doesn't get the result you want you may have a chance to place some samples, but you have to be very careful to mitigate any phase problems, and be sensitive to the dynamics of each tom hit. If the drummer was busy with the toms this can be a soul-destroying process.

Sometimes you just have to accept a recording for what it is, and then it often pays to flaunt the imperfections - accept the bleed, use it to make the drums pump and just find the excitement in the performance.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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colinmk



Joined: 15/10/07
Posts: 67
Re: Spill on tom mic management new [Re: colinmk]
      #1039645 - 24/03/13 02:44 PM
Thanks for the replies. I'll try what Hugh suggested, I have already edited it down to the individual fills, the drumming is pretty crazy and after messing about with the samples a wee bit I don't think that is going to work well enough. Hoping I'll find a balance between bringing in the close tom mic just enough to get the attack of the hits and less of the spill messing up the sound.


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