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Trevor Johnson



Joined: 15/05/10
Posts: 100
Adobe Creative Cloud
      #1047332 - 09/05/13 04:55 PM
Adobe has formally announced Creative Cloud in the last couple of days, which means for those applications (now, somewhat unoriginally renamed 'Apps') with the CC suffix, CS6 marks the end of the road for boxed sets with perpetual licenses. The Adobe website has a lot of information about this and I recommend reading CC 5 myths if you are interested.

It affects Adobe's main products (with the exception of Lightroom) and includes Audition, which will now be available as a CC product for a monthly subscription of £17.58. I have stuck at Audition 3.0, like many people, as subsequent versions have features missing, so I will not be going CC with Audition. However, I will have to consider CC for some of my other Adobe applications.

Trevor


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10698
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047498 - 10/05/13 08:21 AM
There's a massive backlash against this at various Audition oriented sites I've seen. I don't think that Audition has much of a future if it is only available like this.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1887
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047522 - 10/05/13 11:43 AM
Another example of a fantastic product - CoolEdit, morphing into bloated slothware. Soundforge used to be the defacto but I always preferred CoolEdit as I found it much faster, that appeal diminished over time with the subsequent 'improvements' And the cheap and cheerful version which was perfectly adequate for my needs was only about £30! Wish I could still buy it.


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2588
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047579 - 10/05/13 07:00 PM
Question typed into Adobe's chat service: My wife is a student at Bath Spa University. She would like to buy Photoshop CS 6 at the educational rate. However it is not clear how you do this since the online shop is now all about CC.

All representatives are actively assisting other customers. There are 1 customer(s) in line ahead of you. Thank you for your patience.

You are now chatting with Rona.

Rona: Hello! Welcome to Adobe Customer Service.

Rona: Hi Chris

Chris: Hi Rona.

Rona: I will be glad to check and help you with this issue.

Rona: May I please have your email address registered with Adobe?

Chris: I don't think we have an email address registered with you.

Rona: I am glad to inform you that you can still buy the CS 6

Chris: That is good to know. How do we go about it? There are no options obvious on the online store.

Rona: I will transfer you to our sales team, please be online while I transfer the chat.

Chris: OK, thanks.

Please wait while I transfer you to an operator at Adobe Sales.

All representatives are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A representative will be with you shortly.

You are now chatting with 'Preston' at Adobe Sales.

Preston: Hi, may I have your first name please?

Chris: Chris.

Preston: Hello Chris.

Chris: Hi.

Preston: How can I assist you in purchasing Adobe Products today?

Chris: My wife is a student at Bath Spa University. She would like to buy Photoshop CS 6 at the educational rate and the previous rep said that was possible. However it is not clear how you do this since the online shop is now all about CC.

Preston: Chris, Let me help you with that information.

Chris: Great.

Preston: Yes, Photoshop CS6 has been replaced by Photoshop cc now.

Chris: I know but she doesn't want a cloud based solution, she wants the previous desktop package.

Preston: Since your wife is a student, I can get you an amazing software package which includes Photoshop cc and all the other applications at a great discount.

Chris: I know about the cc educational pricing (£15 a month, I believe) but she would much prefer a desktop package which never expires, furthermore she only wants Photoshop.

Preston: We have Creative Cloud student version which includes Photoshop cc, Lightroom 4 and all the other cc applications for just £15.88 per month.

Chris: OK, but I'll say again she would much prefer a desktop package which never expires, furthermore she only wants Photoshop.

Preston: Please give me a minute or two while I check this information for you.

Chris: My thanks.

Preston: Chris, thank you for being online.

Chris: You're welcome.

Preston: Chris, I checked and see that we don't have the CS6 available now, CS6 has been replaced by cc.

Preston: We don't have the option to purchase the full version of CS6 which has been replaced by cc, so I recommend that you purchase the Creative Cloud subscription where you will have access to all the cc applications for just £15.88 per month.

Chris: The problem is she doesn't want the continuing commitment the CC requires in order to keep using the software. Oh well, I guess she'll have to keep working with Photoshop 5.5 I'm afraid you have lost a customer.

Preston: Chris, I understand that however we don't have the CS6 available now, since it has been replaced by cc.

Chris: Thanks anyway. End of story, I guess.

Preston: Chris, please stay online while I check that for you.

Chris: Still here.

Chris: Still here.

Preston: Please stay online I am still checking that information for you.

Chris: Thanks.

Preston: Chris, I checked and see that we do have Photoshop CS6 available online, however we don't have the education version of Photoshop CS6.

Chris: So that would mean the full price of £600-odd. Well, I do appreciate the time you've put in to getting us this far, though I think it will prove too expensive for a student to manage. My thanks.

--------------------
Remember: Tidy wires are happy wires!
Mr Punch's Studio


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chris...
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Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4608
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047586 - 10/05/13 09:01 PM
Not sure if relevant, but FWIW Amazon seem to have CS6 "student and teacher edition" for £417.

link.


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1887
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047588 - 10/05/13 09:05 PM
Yes so much for the super fast, super organised efficient methods we have these days.

I booked a collection for a parcel with Yodel, he came he knocked he scarpered, by the time i got to the front door all I could see was his van vanishing into the distance.

He left a calling card, with Yodel logo at the top and a reference number, no surprises there then

Called the number, press button 1, button 2 etc etc etc an 10p a minute number by the way

Got to the part where I enter the reference number, the reply was "Sorry we do not have that number, please go to our website" and the line went dead

I went to the website, and entered the number - again - no such number, please call...yep the phone number given on the card.

I scoured the web site for an alternative number - found one, called it

Again 10p a minute, and I have to listen to a to lift music for a period of time almost equal to that of Wagner's Ring Cycle

After more But 1, But 2, etc An automated voice came on saying..."Please call (the original number)

I did, again, another 10p a minute gig and ended up with...."Please visit our web site"

Going round in circles obviously...an hour has passed by, by this time

Bt scouring the web I found another number, that one used if you want to become a delivery driver....how to slit your wrists might have been more useful!

Anyway, I managed to speak to a......person!!!!!!

She was quite apologetic, and gave me another number.

I called that number....10p/min...wait, wait, wait

Got to speak to a person who told I had been passed through to the wrong number, but to her credit she did patch me through to another number, and I waited, and I waited...more lift music

A person came on the line!!!!!

I ran through the saga yet again and gave the number written on the driver's Yodel calling card...."That is not a Yodel number" the lady said.

So I asked, "Could you explain how a Yodel van driver leaves a card clearly marked Yodel, and I have a label on the parcel downloaded from the Yodel website where I made the booking, is not a Yodel collection?"

"I don't know" she replied, "but you shouldn't have a Yodel card"

So I am now assuming when I book a Yodel collection, from a Yodel website giving a Yodel Packing Slip, it is not in fact a Yodel collection?

"Yes" she said. She asked me to hold on for a bit...cue the music....she came back on and said "That is a Parcel2Go reference number"

"But I booked with Yodel and have the relevant documentation" I reminded her

"Must be the computers" she said

"What can i do then" I asked, because my payment was made to Yodel. She advised going to parcel2Go website

I did, but as the booking was made with Yodel, parcel2Go had no record of my booking/payment and couldn't figure out how I had got a P2G reference number, "your problem is with Yodel" I was told.

By this time I had lost the will to live - I had got in from work at 6pm and here I was at 8:15 staring at a parcel the buyer was expecting the following day.

The following day I took it to the Post Office, which I had wanted to do in the first place but had been sent spam emails by Yodel telling what a brilliant reliable and inexpensive service, offering parcel collection, so I thought I would give them a try.


back to Adobe. I am so elated I looked at this thread. Earlier I had been opining about not being able to buy CoolEdit anymore. But thought, I'll do a search on't-net and found "Adobe Audition CS3 available for free download!!! Full program, all legit, no need for online activation etc, and 4 gig of loops thrown in, all free, from Adobe, and it is the familiar CoolEdit screen with additonal facilities, it works a treat!

There is a god after all :-)


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2588
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: chris...]
      #1047625 - 11/05/13 11:10 AM
Quote chris...:

Not sure if relevant, but FWIW Amazon seem to have CS6 "student and teacher edition" for £417.

link.




In fact, that's what we did in the end, although we got the Photoshop only one for £217 so this had a happy ending. However looking there this morning they only have 13 copies left, and I guess once they're gone that's it.

I can see how software-as-a-service (the current buzzphrase) would be attractive to companies like Adobe and Microsoft, but I fail to see how it has anything to offer to the likes of us who can afford to push the boat out occasionally and buy a truly professional piece of software to support our activities. I suggest it's only a matter of time before Avid and perhaps other DAW vendors also adopt this model.

CC

--------------------
Remember: Tidy wires are happy wires!
Mr Punch's Studio


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Scramble
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Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 2171
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1047626 - 11/05/13 11:12 AM
> I suggest it's only a matter of time before Avid and perhaps other DAW vendors also adopt this model.

If they adopt the rule that you can no longer open one of their projects unless your have a current subscription then I think everyone will migrate to Reaper.


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4608
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1047629 - 11/05/13 11:31 AM
In the case of Adobe Creative Cloud, how much runs in the "cloud", and how much is on your own PC ?

Is it mostly happening in the cloud - in effect like photoshop in a web-browser ?


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2588
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: chris...]
      #1047631 - 11/05/13 11:36 AM
So far as I can see the software is still on your machine and runs there. The cloud bit comes in for licensing and updates, plus Adobe give you a bit of storage Dropbox-style. You can use the software offline, but after 6 months offline it stops working.

Quote Scramble:

If they adopt the rule that you can no longer open one of their projects unless your have a current subscription then I think everyone will migrate to Reaper.




Adobe seem to be expecting that people won't migrate to Paint Shop Pro / Gimp etc.

CC

--------------------
Remember: Tidy wires are happy wires!
Mr Punch's Studio

Edited by ConcertinaChap (11/05/13 11:38 AM)


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8966
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1047637 - 11/05/13 11:53 AM
I really don't like the rent-to-use model, and when the ideas were first bounced around some years ago, I was very nervous about that possibility.

Adobe is the first big major player to effectively abandon perpetual licenses on their industry-standard software in favour of the rent-to-use model (it's not really "Cloud Computing" in the full sense of the term) and it's a bold move.

Adobe say they don't want to have to support two models, the perpetual license model and the cloud model, and have decided to focus on the cloud model - but they are not against revisiting this decision. My guess is that they are simply not making enough update revenue any more - the applications are fairly mature and at that stage in development the draws to need to upgrade from (say) Photoshop CS5 to CS6 are not exactly deal breakers. By moving to the cloud model, they get continual revenue from everyone, regardless of whether they would traditionally have upgraded or not.

The rest of the industry will be watching how this plays out with interest.

Personally, I will not use software that effectively holds my documents at ransom unless I pay out monthlies, although it *is* a good solution for some people.

My gut feeling is that at some point they will re-add the option to get perpetual licenses (or at least, some more traditional licensing in some form in addition to the cloud stuff, unless the cloud thing really doesn't work out at all).

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out...

Edited by desmond (11/05/13 11:54 AM)


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1887
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047641 - 11/05/13 12:22 PM
That rent-an-app that the 'cloud' whatever that is in so much as what's the difference between the cloud and megauploadz I don't know. I have always been wary of the USA and its megalomanical tendencies and now it's being manifested in software.

But if ever there was a cue for opensource software writers to consolidate, then it is now. I am anticipating the cloudifying of MS Office with teir Office365 and the rip off Office 2013 where you can only install on one computer and if that computer goes pop you have to buy Office all over again and install it on the replacement computer - I don't think so.

I rebuild, change computers quite often, the thought of buying Office each time is out of the question, especially when the likes of LibreOffice are to a point compatible with Office, or are so far, I suppose MS would like to do something about that too.

I am almost evangelical about Cubase for example, have been using it since the days of the Atari but if they ever cloudified it, I think Steinberg will be seeing the Grim Reaper coming it's way.

And these Cloudophiles are so arrogant in their assumption that we are all on superfast urban broadband - I wish. I am on BT's fastest offering (Infinity)and pay very dearly for it, but it still burps and farts its way through a program I am watching on BBC iPlayer and the like. These technologies might work fine in the R&D labs but out in Nether Wallop they don't


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narcoman
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Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 8514
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047642 - 11/05/13 12:30 PM
good post.
I quite like the CC model BUT it should have the desktop purchase as another option.


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2588
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: narcoman]
      #1047664 - 11/05/13 04:21 PM
Quote narcoman:

I quite like the CC model



Just want to make it absolutely clear that that CC isn't this CC

Quote OneWorld:

the 'cloud' whatever that is




The Cloud is nothing more than what, back in the day, we used to call Client-Server, only with some marketing sauce.

CC®

--------------------
Remember: Tidy wires are happy wires!
Mr Punch's Studio


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1887
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047702 - 12/05/13 01:39 AM
Yes that's what I thought, looks like the Emporer's going about naked again!


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awjoe



Joined: 08/03/11
Posts: 112
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047706 - 12/05/13 04:44 AM
If you're a production team that's involved in video and audio and photos and other stuff, then the subscription model's just fine - you have a budget and you get the tools you need for projects as long as you need them. Simple. But if you're all on yer onesie like me, then the subscription model's a disaster. I don't want any of the applications Adobe's offering other than Audition, so subscribing for just the one software will cost me way more than the price of the upgrades I've been paying up until now. What makes me just a lit bit bitter about this situation is that Audition 6, which I own, *just* about overtook previous versions of Audition in every way, and just when Version 7 promises to really deliver, Adobe's making it a tool for Big Boy With Budgets and leaving solo operators like me to fall back on Reaper. Or Studio One. Or...something that doesn't use the subscription model. Adobe's defeating piracy, playing to big customers like the Beeb, and leaving me behind, I think.

--------------------
https://yousemusic.bandcamp.com/


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4608
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #1047739 - 12/05/13 10:28 AM
Quote ConcertinaChap:

The Cloud is nothing more than what, back in the day, we used to call Client-Server, only with some marketing sauce.



Yep.

However, in the specific case of this "Adobe Creative Cloud", it doesn't really seem to involve much of that. (Hence my question previously). Rather (as noted) it simply seems to be a change in the licensing model (plus some sharing type stuff you may or may not want to use).

So I guess they're essentially using the "cloud" buzzword as a way to dress up the licensing change.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8966
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: chris...]
      #1047742 - 12/05/13 10:43 AM
Quote chris...:

So I guess they're essentially using the "cloud" buzzword as a way to dress up the licensing change.




It's a branding type thing, and it essentially has two parts to it - the first part of the Creative Cloud is the ability to upload, share, work collaboratively, download and access files all from the cloud, together with other materials, training, support etc.

The second part is the new licensing model, meaning you subscribe to the apps you want, download them from Adobe, and use them without restrictions. Updates are automatically pushed through, meaning you always have access to the latest versions while you have a subscription. And, although I'm not sure exactly how it works, if the apps don't check in over the net, and/or your subscription lapses, then they will stop working until you resubscribe.

In this form, the app/licensing thing isn't really anything particularly "Cloud-y" and I can't see it stopping piracy - apps are downloaded and installed on the local machine in the usual way and I expect the usual piracy activity will continue, at least for a while. If the new licensing model does well, then I can see more development with the technology in the future, together with faster and pervasive net access that might transform them into true Cloud applications - ie, rent-to-own and running the actual applications from Adobe's servers, rather than on the local machine. That will effectively prevent piracy, but is a way of for a whole bunch of practical reasons.

The real point of this is that many big, pro applications, like the DAWs we are all using are mature, meaning there are less and less reasons to continue to upgrade - particularly as many of us use more than one DAW/tool these days and can supplement the weaknesses of one with the strengths of another. If the rent-to-own licensing models does work, there isn't a big user backlash, and it does generate good revenue, then more software companies are going to go in that direction.

I've spent a heck of a lot in software, but I shudder to think how much I'd be *still* paying if I had to pay monthlies on all my stuff - perpetually, with no end, including fees for software end-of-lifed with no more development. And if I didn't pay, you'd have the lovely scenario of not knowing which applications you run from your apps folder which are going to require a credit card number before they will run...


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ronmac



Joined: 27/09/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: awjoe]
      #1047744 - 12/05/13 11:04 AM
Quote awjoe:

If you're a production team that's involved in video and audio and photos and other stuff, then the subscription model's just fine - you have a budget and you get the tools you need for projects as long as you need them. Simple. But if you're all on yer onesie like me, then the subscription model's a disaster. I don't want any of the applications Adobe's offering other than Audition, so subscribing for just the one software will cost me way more than the price of the upgrades I've been paying up until now. What makes me just a lit bit bitter about this situation is that Audition 6, which I own, *just* about overtook previous versions of Audition in every way, and just when Version 7 promises to really deliver, Adobe's making it a tool for Big Boy With Budgets and leaving solo operators like me to fall back on Reaper. Or Studio One. Or...something that doesn't use the subscription model. Adobe's defeating piracy, playing to big customers like the Beeb, and leaving me behind, I think.




This pretty much captures my feelings. I am very disappointed that AA CS6 will be the end of the line, for me. From the published reports I have read the newer version would have been an instant upgrade, but I can't accept the new rental model.


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Brisound



Joined: 12/05/13
Posts: 6
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047745 - 12/05/13 11:05 AM
I personally feel that this is the wrong move, plus I heard that Adobe will be removing their Fireworks line of product (which some of you may not care about, but it's pretty nice to me)

I'm not sure how this would affect people using Audition, but well there has been a massive trend for large software companies moving to pseudo-Cloud infrastructures, supposedly to combat piracy. Skeptical that it'd actually work, but last I heard Adobe makes most of their money from Enterprise licenses anyway.

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Hire Sound Equipment Brisbane


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Neokoenig



Joined: 24/05/08
Posts: 314
Loc: Oxford
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Brisound]
      #1047757 - 12/05/13 12:40 PM
I'm on CC, and I like it, but then I've always been someone who uses a lot of adobe products (well, PS/Illustrator/INDD/DW/Premiere/ColdFusion/Edge stuff). If you do web design and graphic design AND video editing etc, it's a pretty convincing package.

I'd argue audition may get *more* users due to its inclusion (albeit, they maybe casual users). I needed a waveeditor for something the other day, and it was pretty convenient to be able to just download Audition (which I do like, I used to use CoolEditPro).

If anything, I think it will strengthen the competition - a lot of people want something 'like' Photoshop, but don't actually *need* Photoshop, but at the same time, corporate users will potentially get access to a higher number /level of apps. That's the target they're after - consistent subscription based income, rather than the 2-3 year flurry of money on a new release.

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Web Design ~
Drum Studio


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Gadget13769



Joined: 12/01/11
Posts: 107
Loc: West Midlands
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1047984 - 13/05/13 06:41 PM
I was on CC for the past year - not bad at the ~£27 per month rate.

Then it almost doubled in price. Bye, bye CC...

It also annoyed the hell out of me. I need Photoshop on the road (very often in the middle of nowhere, without so much as a phone signal) and the 'apps' need very regular connection to the internet. You can use trial mode for a while, but once that expires, if you have no internet connection right there and then then Photoshop won't work, which left me high and dry a few times. And this is supposed to be pro software...


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Kevin Nolan
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Joined: 12/01/03
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048388 - 15/05/13 09:36 PM
I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed to hear of this development by Adobe. I've used Adobe Audition since version 1.0 on PC and recently moved over to the latest version on Mac. But I would be unwilling to pay a monthly / yearly license fee - it's too expensive for one thing. Looks like I'll have to drop this product.


However - the question now is - will all music software move in this direction? So the net result of all of this illegal downloading and pirating of software is - us legitimate users have to pay through the teeth for the rest of our lives for it.


Kevin


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8966
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Kevin Nolan]
      #1048390 - 15/05/13 09:41 PM
Quote Kevin Nolan:

However - the question now is - will all music software move in this direction?




Put it this way - if Adobe's new policies prove successful, and revenue grows, then certainly other developers of mature, powerful applications will be much more open to the possibility...


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4TrackMadman
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Joined: 30/10/02
Posts: 1739
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048396 - 15/05/13 10:01 PM
Microsoft is also going the same direction with Office.

I honestly don't see the savings. I still use my ancient version of CoolEdit and works fine on all the OSes I've thrown at it. I don't remember if there was even a registration, I think I just had to enter a serial which was provided by them.

Now Studio One, IK and few others sell you software that has validation schemes that allow only several installs, afterwards you're toast unless you pay up to have it "reinstated" or whatever the buzzword is.

Sounds like a fine time for hackers to get active with Adobe's junk model - now they can have the software to hack at a much cheaper price and only a monthly fee.

For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.

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Gadget13769



Joined: 12/01/11
Posts: 107
Loc: West Midlands
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: 4TrackMadman]
      #1048454 - 16/05/13 09:39 AM
Quote 4TrackMadman:

For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.




I'm back to Dreamweaver Studio MX for the same reason.


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9245
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048458 - 16/05/13 09:52 AM
I have their Creative Suite bundle which cost me my remaining nut. I called them and got the 8 reps, 45 minutes of utter 'helping nonsense' rubbish and all I wanted to know was how much After Effects would cost as it wasn't in the bundle. They tried to get me to signup with CC. I asked, again, how much AE would be on its own. I was then 'moved' onto someone 'who could help me with that question' who then turned out to be an equally talented knob as the previous one. After 15 minutes of BS they eventually told me it would cost a grand to get AE. I said I already had the package and could I pay and upgrade price...guess what.....they got another rep to talk me into CC.

I think I bladed the rep and left the country at that point.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1887
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Gadget13769]
      #1048528 - 16/05/13 03:33 PM
Quote Gadget13769:

Quote 4TrackMadman:

For my registered version on Dreamweaver 4, I guess it is end-of-the-line, I simply won't participate in this monthly subscription fleecing.




I'm back to Dreamweaver Studio MX for the same reason.




Me too!

I can see a massive opening for the open source developers that offer viable alternatives and those that don't have their head in the clouds


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Trevor Johnson



Joined: 15/05/10
Posts: 100
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: OneWorld]
      #1048592 - 16/05/13 10:14 PM
Before I began this post, I looked at Adobe's last financial statement (Q1 2013) and here is an interesting quote from Mark Garrett, executive vice president and chief financial officer, Adobe. “We're building a stronger, more predictable recurring revenue model which will drive higher long-term growth.” There are 479,000 CC subscribers at present, out of how many non-subscription, licensed, users?

I am currently re-evaluating all my Adobe products, because I don't want to be tied into proprietary file formats e.g. Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop which may be difficult to access or edit in a few years time, thanks to the move to CC. Audition users are all right as the majority of file formats used are probably WAV. The problem is potentially not being able to access or edit your own files after hardware and/or OS changes, not an issue at the moment, but say in five years?

Talking to others, they are all re-evaluating their relationship with Adobe, which should alarm Adobe, because it is not just about the cost, which may be a secondary or tertiary issue, but the imposition of a wholly different relationship between the company and its users.

Trevor


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Gadget13769



Joined: 12/01/11
Posts: 107
Loc: West Midlands
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048621 - 17/05/13 05:47 AM
Quote Trevor Johnson:

I am currently re-evaluating all my Adobe products, because I don't want to be tied into proprietary file formats e.g. Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop which may be difficult to access or edit in a few years time...




Agreed.

Adobe have already controlled this to some degree in recent times anyway, by only allowing the latest versions of Photoshop to have the means to open the raw files of the latest cameras and having a poor relationship with Microsoft which still means there are no image previews for .PSD files natively within Windows.

However, the prospect of having no access at all to 'locked formats' in the future does worry me. I certainly think I at least need to spend time ensuring I have every one of my raw format images copied as a TIFF and / or JPEG.


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Kevin Nolan
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Joined: 12/01/03
Posts: 776
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048662 - 17/05/13 10:54 AM
I think the bottom line for Adobe is that they need to secure their future and with the proliferation of pirating, I can't blame them for wanting to go this route.

And in fairness, the majority of their users are probably corporations. You rarely see small and individual musicians or sound designers/producers talk about Adobe Audition - we're not their main user base. It's likely to be corporations who license software, or 'software solutions' across a plethora of uses in like fashion.

The sad thing, in my opinion, is that Adope Auditon never really got going in the music market, because it really is, by a country mile, the best audio production software available for the money. Its built in DSP algorithms and plugins for processing, restoration and mastering (including izoptope technology) is astounding. By comparison, to build up similar capability in any typical DAW would cost thousands of pounds. And I remember Bias Peak, with all similarly installed plugins to Audition, costing thousands (and no wonder they went under). So Adobe Audition, for the money, is still genuinely exquisite value for money.

As just one example - I recently did the sound for a theater production of One Flew Over The Cookoo's Nest; and it has quite a number of tricky cues. Adobe Audition literally made the job many times easier than had I tried to assemble it on, say, Logic. At one point I was given a poor recording of some teenage girls singing a nursery rhyme - recorded in a class room, and within an hour, I had effectively removed the room acoustic (including creaks and pops from the tiled roof of the class rooms), had formant pitch shifted their voices to make them sound convincingly about 5 years younger, layered it to sound bigger, edited the file to extend the singing time and then EQ'd, Normalised it and added an excellent room reverb. Total and utter audio transformation, all with first rate algorithms, all costing a few hundred quid. For that sort of work Audition is utterly invincible; it made doing this complex job doable in a very short space of time; and doing it on an ordinary DAW would have genuinely taken multiples of the time involved.

And I can tell you - Cool Edit is NOT Adobe Auditon any more. It is utterly transformed as a product these days.

So even with this cloud solution, it's still not expensive.



so perhaps it's a matter of getting used to this 'paradigm'. It might even be the saviour of online 'everything' - including eventually for actual music (??) - in which case perhaps the notion of selling music and earning money from it might come back into the control of the originator of the music (a lot of extrapolation going on here I know) - but if cloud type technologies do offer more secure control of access and long term revenue streams, perhaps that's where it's all heading, including end product - in which case we might be thanking the likes of Adobe for pushing this approach.


so perhaps not as black as first seems, and as said above, Adobe continues to be an exquisite product and stunning value for money; but for now, surely this makes the whole management of Adobe more in line with 'corporate usage' and surely that's where heir main user base is?


Will need to think about and watch this.

Kevin.


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awjoe



Joined: 08/03/11
Posts: 112
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Kevin Nolan]
      #1048810 - 18/05/13 05:52 AM
Quote Kevin Nolan:

I think the bottom line for Adobe is that they need to secure their future and with the proliferation of pirating, I can't blame them for wanting to go this route.




Sure. But they're doing more than securing their future; they're going for the corporate buck.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

And in fairness, the majority of their users are probably corporations. You rarely see small and individual musicians or sound designers/producers talk about Adobe Audition - we're not their main user base. It's likely to be corporations who license software, or 'software solutions' across a plethora of uses in like fashion.




See? Even you agree.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

The sad thing, in my opinion, is that Adope Auditon never really got going in the music market, because it really is, by a country mile, the best audio production software available for the money.




Well, not quite. It doesn't do MIDI and it doesn't handle Rewire. What kind of audio production software can't handle MIDI?

Quote Kevin Nolan:

Its built in DSP algorithms and plugins for processing, restoration and mastering (including izoptope technology) is astounding. By comparison, to build up similar capability in any typical DAW would cost thousands of pounds. And I remember Bias Peak, with all similarly installed plugins to Audition, costing thousands (and no wonder they went under). So Adobe Audition, for the money, is still genuinely exquisite value for money.




Yeah, it's very good at that.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

So even with this cloud solution, it's still not expensive.




Wait and see. Two years of renting the software on CC will cost me more than the price of an upgrade (which I own and can use until my OS and computer stop running it).

--------------------
https://yousemusic.bandcamp.com/


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1048827 - 18/05/13 09:22 AM
Who cares?!!

CC2 is a free download from Adobe and CC6 is only marginally better, so who cares?

I have a later version of the Master Edition and quite honestly, there are three things in it that are great, InDesign, Illustrator and Premier (with After Effects). The rest is OK, but there are better things elsewhere, esp. Photoshop.

As none of the SW is particularly intuitive and each and every one of the apps has a better alternative from somebody else (e.g. Final Cut Pro) who cares?


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Kevin Nolan]
      #1048831 - 18/05/13 10:14 AM
Quote Kevin Nolan:

so perhaps it's a matter of getting used to this 'paradigm'. It might even be the saviour of online 'everything' - including eventually for actual music (??) - in which case perhaps the notion of selling music and earning money from it might come back into the control of the originator of the music (a lot of extrapolation going on here I know) - but if cloud type technologies do offer more secure control of access and long term revenue streams, perhaps that's where it's all heading



For music, you pretty much just described Spotify.

Like everything else involving audio, it's not "secure" in that I can trivially "rip" from it, should I wish to do so. Audio isn't amenable to the sort of protection that can be provided to say computer applications. However, I don't bother ripping stuff, as (amongst other reasons) there's simply no point, assuming I keep paying my tenner a month. That's how the paradigm should work.

I'm a fan of Spotify, but sadly it doesn't seem to have brought back the old music industry profits, just yet.


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4TrackMadman
active member


Joined: 30/10/02
Posts: 1739
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1049036 - 19/05/13 11:05 PM
Honestly I don't see big corporation really loving this product. Neither Adobe nor Microsoft's new move to the cloud are good for corporate data security and that is #1 in big corp.

I just don't see IT admins being happy about Adobe's and M$ hands reaching on their IPs and server infrastructure and logging all that data back and forth. With M4 cloud it gets even worse as you store on a M$ site so they can access your data whenever they feel like it.

--------------------
www.descentintomadness.com


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Steve A
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1049182 - 20/05/13 04:39 PM
I am a video / motion graphics producer by day so the move to the CC subscription model is not something I can easily reject by moving to other products. They've really got me by the balls here and it's got me worried. Apart from the concept of having to perpetually pay a company for the right to be able to access and use my own historic work (which strikes me as an anti competitive measure in disguise and I'm surprised more isn't being made of this given the voracious manner in which Microsoft has been persued in recent years) the other thing that strikes me is that the incentive now for Adobe to ensure product revisions remain competitive is greatly reduced. At the moment, I don't always jump at an upgrade if it doesn't contain enough features that are useful to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The effective removal of that important market process can't possibly be good for the end user.

--------------------
http://www.partyfearsthree.co.uk


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 8966
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Steve A]
      #1053390 - 20/06/13 10:21 AM
Adobe admitting that the Cloud only model probably isn't the best and only way forward (as I suspected might happen):-

Adobe CEO admits need to 'tweak' Creative Suite's cloud-only policy
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/adobe_q2_custome...

Don't know whether perpetual licensing will return, but we'll wait and see...


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Jez (mahoobley)
monkey


Joined: 21/03/03
Posts: 2216
Loc: East Midlands
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Trevor Johnson]
      #1060370 - 02/08/13 11:14 AM
Bumping this thread as I've just been hit by how ridiculous this situation is.

I was a (not very good) beta tester on what was Adobe Audition CS7, now CC having previously used it since Cool Edit Pro but having dropped it at CS3 because it couldn't handle audio files with more than 2 channels and my work was having me editing quad and 5.1 wav files meaning I switched to Sound Forge.

I thought CS7 was looking brilliant and was excited to return to it after the mess of lost features that CS5 and 6 were.

However, it now costs £17.50 a month. That's the full price of the old software WITHIN ONE YEAR.

And what incentive is there for them to improve and add features when they've got you locked in and you're paying anyway?

There is a petition for Adobe to reverse the model, which currently has around 37,000 signatures.

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the- mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

Back to ugh Sound Forge for me.

--------------------
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21689
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #1060375 - 02/08/13 11:26 AM
It's half that for previous Adobe users (and even less for business users who are registered for VAT) making it the equivalent of upgrading every two/three years... which is not far off what most serious users would do anyway. The same applies in broad terms to the full CS suites.

I can see both sides of this argument; it's probably fairly cost-efficient for professional users who need to keep up-to-date, but it will upset casual amateur users who don't. But then Adobe is a commercial business which presumably sees its primary income stream as being big business on a subscription model. A lot of software suppliers are likely to go this way, I fear.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Mixedup
active member


Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4800
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060383 - 02/08/13 11:56 AM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

A lot of software suppliers are likely to go this way, I fear.




Perhaps. But then that would present opportunities for other companies who don't use that model to go after market share. So I wouldn't be surprised to see many try it, perhaps even embrace it, and then reconsider. Rather like some of the newspapers putting all content behind a paywall.


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