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AstraLeadGuitar



Joined: 26/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: British in Le Mans, France.
Burning a Red Book CD Master
      #1059413 - 26/07/13 07:22 PM
Greetings fellow forum readers! I'm looking forward to participating on the Sound on Sound Forum.

Regarding making a master CD, Tascam seem to think that this can be burned onboard the Tascam 2488 Mark II digital portastudio. However, I presume this wouldn't be up to Red Book Standard for one thing due to the lack of ISRCs. The last time I had a production master made, I wanted ISRCs embedded, so I got a professional mastering engineer to make a Red Book Master using the CD-R the Tascam had burned. However, this time round, I'm wondering whether I have to go to that trouble again.

Have any of you guys or gals on the forum used the software Cdrdao available from SourceForge which apparently allows for full control of sub-channel data such as ISRCs? I'd be interested to know whether it's easy to use and really up to the task of making a professional RB Master, i.e., no nasty surprises with it not playing on standard players! Looking forward to your views.

--------------------
Astra - Lead Guitarist, Singer-Songwriter
450 concerts in Europe.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: AstraLeadGuitar]
      #1059523 - 27/07/13 09:48 PM
I've not used CDRDAO for production masters myself although I understand that it will produce discs suitable for use as masters (they're not strictly red book discs as red book discs can only be pressed, not burned). Recently I've started using it as part of another software package to burn listening copies of DDP filesets and it seems to work fine.

I started off using CDRWin and then moved to Feurio and then Plextools to burn masters for replication. Plextools is extremely useful as it allows you to automatically perform quality tests on the disc after burning if you have the right drive.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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AstraLeadGuitar



Joined: 26/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: British in Le Mans, France.
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1059986 - 30/07/13 08:29 PM
Quote James Perrett:

I've not used CDRDAO for production masters myself although I understand that it will produce discs suitable for use as masters (they're not strictly red book discs as red book discs can only be pressed, not burned). Recently I've started using it as part of another software package to burn listening copies of DDP filesets and it seems to work fine.

I started off using CDRWin and then moved to Feurio and then Plextools to burn masters for replication. Plextools is extremely useful as it allows you to automatically perform quality tests on the disc after burning if you have the right drive.




Thanks very much for your informative reply, James. What I want to do is have a master CD-R with ISRCs and UPC embedded, which will first serve as master for duplication and then be good enough to be able to produce a glass master for replication. Hence my interest in CDRDAO. Plextools sounds interesting. Since your post, I have visited the Plextor website and saw it for download but I presume you have to have one of their Plextor drives installed in order to use it? I just have a regular Lightscribe CD-R-DVD drive in my Compaq Laptop.

--------------------
Astra - Lead Guitarist, Singer-Songwriter
450 concerts in Europe.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: AstraLeadGuitar]
      #1060034 - 31/07/13 11:09 AM
You need the right sort of Plextor drive in order to write discs and perform advanced testing but, if your drive supports it, you can check for C2 errors which will give a basic go/no go indication. Nero's Drivespeed will also test for C2 errors.

It turns out that I was wrong about using CDR-DAO. I was confusing it with CDRecord which is the one I've been using. CDRecord is free too.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Scramble
active member


Joined: 11/09/02
Posts: 2213
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1060038 - 31/07/13 11:35 AM
> I presume this wouldn't be up to Red Book Standard for one thing due to the lack of ISRCs

You don't strictly need ISRCs, I think the latest Red Book standards recommend them but really they're not part of the CD standards, they're just meta-data, and the same applies to UPC codes.

Having said that, it's still a good idea to include them.

A lot of CD manufacturers these days will accept a DDP file, which is a better bet than sending a CD, but cheap software that can render a DDP file is not easy to find.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: Scramble]
      #1060080 - 31/07/13 03:12 PM
Quote Scramble:


A lot of CD manufacturers these days will accept a DDP file, which is a better bet than sending a CD, but cheap software that can render a DDP file is not easy to find.




But not impossible...

I've done 2 DDP projects in Reaper so far and I'm about to submit a third.

You'll find some free tools at

http://ddp.andreasruge.de

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Red Mastering



Joined: 24/08/11
Posts: 113
Loc: London
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1060422 - 02/08/13 03:41 PM
interesting, didn't know reaper has ddp option. Very worthy to check it considering the sonoris ddp creator isn't cheap...:/

--------------------
online mastering


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: Red Mastering]
      #1060720 - 05/08/13 10:17 AM
Reaper's DDP isn't exactly intuitive and the only instructions that I could find were in a YouTube video so I added a post to their forum with the essentials from the video so it might be worth a search for those.

Edit:

Here are the instructions...

To those that don't want to watch the video, the important points are:


Set sample rate to 44.1kHz, Frame rate to 75 and project BPM to 240 (not sure why) in the Project Settings dialog.


Place a marker named ! at the start.


Leave 2 seconds of silence at the start before the first track marker which should be labelled something like #TITLE=Track Title|PERFORMER=Band Name|ISRC= GBXXX7891916.


Insert subsequent track markers.


Just before the end enter a marker with album info in the form @Album Title|PERFORMER=Band Name|LANGUAGE=English


Render to a file called Image


I found that the Region/Marker Manager window was invaluable in speeding up the process as I could just copy and paste the band/title/isrc info for each marker and just change the bits that needed to be changed.



James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Edited by James Perrett (05/08/13 10:22 AM)


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trevorscott33



Joined: 13/08/11
Posts: 100
Loc: West Sussex
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: AstraLeadGuitar]
      #1060733 - 05/08/13 01:22 PM
have they changed the red book standard? when i bought my HHB 850 i'm sure the manual said it recorded to red book standard

--------------------
https://soundcloud.com/trevor-scott-333
Music is my madness that keeps me sane.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22079
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: trevorscott33]
      #1060740 - 05/08/13 03:01 PM
Quote trevorscott33:

have they changed the red book standard?




Nope. Wouldn't really be a standard if they kept changing it...

Quote:

when i bought my HHB 850 i'm sure the manual said it recorded to red book standard




It may have done, but it was wrong if it did.

The Red Book relates only to pressed CDs. The HHB CDR-850 records 'orange book' CDs (CD-Rs are defined in the 'orange book'), but it can do so in a 'disc-at-once' mode which means that the resulting CD-R -- when 'finalized' -- can be used as a source disc for a CD pressing plant to create the 'glass master', which then allows red-book CDs to be produced.

Once 'finalized' an orange book CD-R is broadly compatible with, and can be played back on, standard red-book CD players... usually. But it most definitely isn't a 'red-book' CD.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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trevorscott33



Joined: 13/08/11
Posts: 100
Loc: West Sussex
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1060746 - 05/08/13 03:46 PM
thanks Hugh, that's good to know

how much does it cost to get a 'glass master' these days?

--------------------
https://soundcloud.com/trevor-scott-333
Music is my madness that keeps me sane.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: trevorscott33]
      #1060748 - 05/08/13 04:25 PM
It depends on the packaging, but you can do a small-ish run of glass mastered CD's for under £200 if you know where to look.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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trevorscott33



Joined: 13/08/11
Posts: 100
Loc: West Sussex
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1060899 - 06/08/13 03:34 PM
thanks for that, what do you call a small ish run?

--------------------
https://soundcloud.com/trevor-scott-333
Music is my madness that keeps me sane.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1060901 - 06/08/13 03:51 PM
If you exclude VAT you can have 250 CD's on a spindle for £200 but if you want VAT included you can only get 100 for that price. I would have to add that I haven't seen the results for myself but the customer that uses this plant seems happy (and he knows the difference between duplication and replication).

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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AstraLeadGuitar



Joined: 26/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: British in Le Mans, France.
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: AstraLeadGuitar]
      #1061448 - 10/08/13 05:46 PM
Hi, guys. Thanks for your latest posts. So, Hugh, perhaps the correct language would be to say I'm looking to make an Orange-book CD-R which is Red-book compliant?

I don't suppose you'd know whether a standard DVD-CD player-burner as installed on my Compaq Notebook would be capable of checking for C2 errors? It's called an "AHL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA T50 L ATA Device" - is there free or reasonably-priced software which can do such an error check?
Thanks very much.

--------------------
Astra - Lead Guitarist, Singer-Songwriter
450 concerts in Europe.

Edited by AstraLeadGuitar (10/08/13 05:48 PM)


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10826
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: AstraLeadGuitar]
      #1061621 - 12/08/13 09:53 AM
If you want to check whether your drive can output C2 errors I would download and install a copy of Plextools Professional XL V3.16 which is hidden away somewhere on the Plextor Europe website.

Run it and choose your drive from the dropdown list at the top. Select Drive Functions/Drive Information/Features and see if there is a tick by C2 errors. If there is then your can use the CD Read Test in Plextools' Diagnostic Functions to check for errors.

While Plextools' more advanced functions require a Plextor drive, the basic functions like these work with any drive.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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AstraLeadGuitar



Joined: 26/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: British in Le Mans, France.
Re: Burning a Red Book CD Master new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1064576 - 01/09/13 09:08 PM
Ok. Thanks a lot for the tip, James. I'll check out the software and see what gives.
Cheers.
Astra.

--------------------
Astra - Lead Guitarist, Singer-Songwriter
450 concerts in Europe.


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