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Gerhard Westphalen



Joined: 21/03/10
Posts: 227
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Noise Laws
      #1070330 - 14/10/13 06:39 PM
I looked up the noise laws for my city in order to make sure that I wasn't breaking them in the summer when I listened to music at night with my window open. Here is what it says on the city website:

No person shall cause or permit to be caused a continuous sound that exceeds
(a) 65 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the day-time; or
(b) 50 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the night-time;
No person shall cause or permit to be caused a non-continuous sound that exceeds:
(a) 85 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the day-time; or
(b) 75 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the night-time;

What I'm confused about is where are these levels measured? Is it at the edge of my property?


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21823
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Gerhard Westphalen]
      #1070342 - 14/10/13 07:49 PM
Probably, yes. Property boundary is a common measurement point, or the boundary of a neighbour (which is usually the same thing).

It will be an LAeq measurement, which is an continuous measurement averaged over a set time -- an hour in this case.

The non-continuous figures are probably intended for machinery, hammering and things like that.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Gerhard Westphalen



Joined: 21/03/10
Posts: 227
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1070375 - 15/10/13 01:54 AM
Ok, thanks. In that case, I'm definitely within the law. Those values seem to be fairly high.

G


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10749
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Gerhard Westphalen]
      #1070382 - 15/10/13 09:10 AM
There may be other laws that govern the noise levels inside neighbouring properties. In the UK, your local council's environmental health department will be the people to talk to.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Gerhard Westphalen]
      #1070383 - 15/10/13 09:12 AM
Could we know the city?

Dave.


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Gerhard Westphalen



Joined: 21/03/10
Posts: 227
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070431 - 15/10/13 01:15 PM
I'm in Calgary, Canada. I got that information off of the city website.
Regardless, I would stay well below those levels as common courtesy to neighbors since I think those levels are fairly high.

G


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5747
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Gerhard Westphalen]
      #1070436 - 15/10/13 01:49 PM
Quote Gerhard Westphalen:

I looked up the noise laws for my city in order to make sure that I wasn't breaking them in the summer when I listened to music at night with my window open. Here is what it says on the city website:

No person shall cause or permit to be caused a continuous sound that exceeds
(a) 65 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the day-time; or
(b) 50 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the night-time;
No person shall cause or permit to be caused a non-continuous sound that exceeds:
(a) 85 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the day-time; or
(b) 75 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the night-time;

What I'm confused about is where are these levels measured? Is it at the edge of my property?




I imagine they are taken at any position another resident chooses to measure them, inside HIS property. One hopes the results are subject to common-sense interpretation, to avoid situations such as the woman who complained about a neighbour's nudist activities, which were visible with binoculars if she stood on the wardrobe :-)


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1070438 - 15/10/13 02:14 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Quote Gerhard Westphalen:

I looked up the noise laws for my city in order to make sure that I wasn't breaking them in the summer when I listened to music at night with my window open. Here is what it says on the city website:

No person shall cause or permit to be caused a continuous sound that exceeds
(a) 65 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the day-time; or
(b) 50 decibels (dBA) measured over a one (1) hour period during the night-time;
No person shall cause or permit to be caused a non-continuous sound that exceeds:
(a) 85 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the day-time; or
(b) 75 decibels (dBA) measured over a period of 15 minutes during the night-time;

What I'm confused about is where are these levels measured? Is it at the edge of my property?




I imagine they are taken at any position another resident chooses to measure them, inside HIS property. One hopes the results are subject to common-sense interpretation, to avoid situations such as the woman who complained about a neighbour's nudist activities, which were visible with binoculars if she stood on the wardrobe :-)




Common-sense indeed E.W!
That 85dB daytime limit would be very hard to stay under with any guitar amp rig bigger than about one watt unless the offended party was quite a ways away!
And no doubt the lawyers will be on a nice little earner arguing "Daytime is Nightime"???

Dave.


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5747
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070441 - 15/10/13 02:22 PM
Well, there IS a fair argument that a "guitar rig" in not something that should be inflicted on a neighbour with any regularity, at any level!


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #1070444 - 15/10/13 02:53 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Well, there IS a fair argument that a "guitar rig" in not something that should be inflicted on a neighbour with any regularity, at any level!




I quite agree but kids WILL want to practice and a local 90-100dB is not all that loud....To them!

Dave.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21823
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070445 - 15/10/13 02:58 PM
Quote ef37a:

That 85dB daytime limit would be very hard to stay under with any guitar amp rig bigger than about one watt unless the offended party was quite a ways away!




Er... it is a limit for 'non-continuous sound' which is probably a Gemanglish translation for the 'Impulse sound' condition detailed in the Euro-legislation. And these figures are almost certainly talking about LAeq measurements gathered over a 1 hour time period.

It would need to be a pretty chunky guitar amp, in the garden, with pretty nasty sustained power chords strummed for a solid hour to achieve anything like that LAeq reading at the edge of a property boundary....

And if the OP was achieving that no one with ears would object to the neighbours getting a lynch mob together to deal with the offending antisocalist guitarist anyway!

Quote:

And no doubt the lawyers will be on a nice little earner arguing "Daytime is Nightime"???





I expect the appropriate local noise legislation will have that defined precisely already...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21823
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070447 - 15/10/13 03:02 PM
Quote ef37a:

I quite agree but kids WILL want to practice and a local 90-100dB is not all that loud....To them!




Quite so... but (a) you're talking about instantaneous SPL, not LAeq, and (b) that would be inside a practice room (hopefully) with the doors and windows closed, and (c) the measurement point would (hopefully) be many metres away.

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1070448 - 15/10/13 03:02 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote ef37a:

That 85dB daytime limit would be very hard to stay under with any guitar amp rig bigger than about one watt unless the offended party was quite a ways away!




Er... it is a limit for 'non-continuous sound' which is probably a Gemanglish translation for the 'Impulse sound' condition detailed in the Euro-legislation. And these figures are almost certainly talking about LAeq measurements gathered over a 1 hour time period. it would need to be a pretty chunky guitar amp with pretty nasty sustained power chords for an hour to achieve that at the edge of a property boundary.... in which case the neighbours would be duty bound to lynch the offending guitarist anyway!

Quote:

And no doubt the lawyers will be on a nice little earner arguing "Daytime is Nightime"???





I expect the appropriate local noise legislation will have that defined precisely already...

H




Yup, that's all fine Hugh so long as you get the right people and not some job'sworth.

(I still remember the Leeds debacle you see!)
Dave.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21823
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070450 - 15/10/13 03:27 PM
It's Germany, the European heart of efficiency

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1070452 - 15/10/13 03:35 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

It's Germany, the European heart of efficiency

H




Thought OP said he was in Canada?
Dave.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21823
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: ef37a]
      #1070454 - 15/10/13 03:54 PM
Sorry -- my bad! I was working under the delusion that these were based on euro laws... all bets are off!

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
Posts: 2466
Loc: . ...
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Gerhard Westphalen]
      #1070457 - 15/10/13 04:28 PM
Obviously it couldn't be Germany, because then daytime and night-time would be clearly defined, as would the method of measurement, the body permitted to make those measurements and the name and type of equipment used to make those measurements. Also, the exact position outside the property making a noise where such measurements are to be made is also defined.

It is all laid out quite clearly in the Bundesgesetz zum Schutz vor schädlichen Umwelteinwirkungen durch Luftverunreinigungen, Geräusche, Erschütterungen und ähnliche Vorgänge.

Though usually it is just known as the Bundesimmissionsschutzgesetz for short.

It is outlined here in simple terms that you all should be able to understand -

German legal web page


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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 9360
Loc: UK *but works all over the pl...
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1070562 - 16/10/13 03:48 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote ef37a:


And if the OP was achieving that no one with ears would object to the neighbours getting a lynch mob together to deal with the offending antisocalist guitarist anyway!






well y'all talk big, but you've never turned up at my door to back it up

--------------------
Don't get the hump when i tell you it's going to be expensive, it's not my fault , you picked the site/building/room â


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ef37a



Joined: 29/05/06
Posts: 6792
Loc: northampton uk
Re: Noise Laws new [Re: Studio Support Gnome]
      #1070564 - 16/10/13 03:57 PM
Quote Studio Support Gnome:

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote ef37a:


And if the OP was achieving that no one with ears would object to the neighbours getting a lynch mob together to deal with the offending antisocalist guitarist anyway!






well y'all talk big, but you've never turned up at my door to back it up




Hey! That wasn't me!

Dave.


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