Main Forums >> Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors'
      #1107297 - 10/06/14 07:18 PM
There's been a lot of interest in sealed box monitors recently. I wonder how do the likes of the Harbeth P3ser / Monitor 20.1 and Spendor S3/5R² compare in performance to modern monitors such as the AE22 and (non sealed) KH 120 A ?

The original BBC versions were presumably designed for dialogue, but the P3ser seems to be marketed to a music listening crowd and the Monitor 20.1 is a very similar speaker. So are the Harbeth P3ser / Monitor 20.1 and Spendor S3/5R² suitable for the production and mix down of modern acoustic / classical music and how do they stand up to the current competition?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107302 - 10/06/14 08:05 PM
The Spendors and Harbeths you mention ARE modern monitors as you can still buy them today. The Neumanns are derived from the Klein & Hummel range that they were know as before. The AE22s are about the same age as the Spendor S3/5R², not the earlier versions of the Spendors but the current one.

I hope this clears things up for you!!

You will find the LS3/5a type speakers do lack some of the grunt of the AE22s, low cut off frequency and overall level. The different physical sizes will have some effect over how you perceive the stereo image. However the good news is that any of the speakers you mention will allow you to make sensible mix decisions. The Spendors and Harbeths aren't cheap and you will need a good quality amplifier for them. Others can eulogise about the Neumanns.

Do go and listen to them and report back.

How about this for an alternative, make your own

Falcon acoustics

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107315 - 10/06/14 09:08 PM
Sorry, I meant to add that you will find the Spendors and Harbeth very neutral. This is partially due to their bass loading but mainly from years of refinement and good design. These are companies that don't just throw speakers together. I would have them down as more neutral than the AE22s but I haven't done a side by side listen.

It will be worth getting them into the studio because I have found modern versions of the LS3/5A concept need some more breathing space around them to really open up. Probably because they are designed to work in a home hifi rather than on top of a meter bridge.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12504
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107356 - 11/06/14 08:51 AM
The Harbeth definitely *is* a modern monitor.

The Monitor 20 was designed to be the same size as the old BBC LS3/5a and to be "what the BBC would make had they designed the LS3/5a now".

The Monitor 20.1 is the latest version.

It is neutral and amazingly detailed, telling you everything you need to know - I would have bought a pair myself had they done an active version - as it is, I did have the passive version in my room for a few weeks; an excellent monitor.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Mixedup
active member


Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4858
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1107363 - 11/06/14 09:09 AM
Quote fay spook:

How about this for an alternative, make your own

Falcon acoustics




Interesting, but it's priced pretty steep considering it's in kit form, and doesn't include the T27 tweeters (about £85 for a pair) or any finish to the wood.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: John Willett]
      #1107365 - 11/06/14 09:15 AM
Quote John Willett:


It is neutral and amazingly detailed, telling you everything you need to know - I would have bought a pair myself had they done an active version - as it is, I did have the passive version in my room for a few weeks; an excellent monitor.




How would you compare the Monitor 20.1's performance to the smaller KH speakers? And why was a passive monitor a no for you?

I guess that Harbeth don't make active models as their main market is hifi and the dealer would miss a sale - fair enough, running a business is tough, so you've got to think about your distribution!

Perhaps a SoS review of the Monitor 20.1 might be interesting?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9369
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: Mixedup]
      #1107381 - 11/06/14 11:04 AM
Quote Mixedup:

Quote fay spook:

How about this for an alternative, make your own

Falcon acoustics




Interesting, but it's priced pretty steep considering it's in kit form, and doesn't include the T27 tweeters (about £85 for a pair) or any finish to the wood.




Not sure why they do that M. Even the MS20 is priced too steeply for a kit jobbie.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
MarkOne



Joined: 15/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Bristol, England, Earth, Perus...
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1107385 - 11/06/14 11:12 AM
Quote fay spook:

Probably because they are designed to work in a home hifi rather than on top of a meter bridge.




I thought the BBC LS3/5A was designed to work tucked in the back of an OB truck... It was only later that someone said 'hey, wait a minute, these are pretty good HiFi speakers!'

--------------------
New album 'Fantasy Bridge' available now!
Making of Fantasy Bridge Diary


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: MarkOne]
      #1107397 - 11/06/14 12:32 PM
Quote MarkOne:

Quote fay spook:

Probably because they are designed to work in a home hifi rather than on top of a meter bridge.




I thought the BBC LS3/5A was designed to work tucked in the back of an OB truck... It was only later that someone said 'hey, wait a minute, these are pretty good HiFi speakers!'




Yes you are correct, my lazy typing trying to explain that the original BBC models weren't designed for a domestic environment. I think the 3 part of the name is for OB. They have a few lumps and bumps in their frequency response but in a typical listening position it's all sort of blends and works. A good speaker is a good speaker so it should be no surprise an extensively tested and developed speaker like the LS3/5a sounds good.

As for Falcons pricing, their T27 has only recently been developed so the kits have been priced without them. £400/650 for the kit........not my choice but look at the s/h prices for original models. Price up the low production runs for the new B110 & T27 and transformers in the crossovers. Even the grilles won't be cheap. But I can't decide what is value for others.

You can always get a JR149 or 150 instead. Whatever you do just have a listen yourself.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Jeraldo



Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 2379
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107410 - 11/06/14 01:22 PM
I love my LS3/5a's made by Rogers. They are well made, and attractively so with fine wood finishes and with wonderfully liveried back panels.

Very clear and untiring on the ears, with a surprising and measurable amount of low end extension available past the -3dB point.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12504
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107539 - 12/06/14 08:57 AM
Quote J_J_Breeze:

Quote John Willett:


It is neutral and amazingly detailed, telling you everything you need to know - I would have bought a pair myself had they done an active version - as it is, I did have the passive version in my room for a few weeks; an excellent monitor.




How would you compare the Monitor 20.1's performance to the smaller KH speakers? And why was a passive monitor a no for you?

I guess that Harbeth don't make active models as their main market is hifi and the dealer would miss a sale - fair enough, running a business is tough, so you've got to think about your distribution!





They are both good, but I never compared them side by side.

The Harbeth M20.1 are sealed boxes and the KH120 are bass reflex.

The M20.1 are the same size but the next step up in quality from the LS3/5a.

Harbeth did make the M30 and M40 as actives and, in fact, did do an active M20 for a while - but by the time I realised it, they had discontinued it. I think they had trouble with their amp. manufacturer at the time.

The M20/30/40 range are all designed as professional monitors, which are Harbeth's roots, though the hi-fi units do seem to be their main business nowadays.

The reason I wanted actives is that I use them as location monitors and didn't want to have to carry around heavy amplifiers and loudspeaker cables - plus I wanted the accuracy that an electronic crossover and dedicated amps give. I used the K+H O110D for several years before upgrading to the Geithain RL906 in 2012.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Mixedup
active member


Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4858
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: Zukan]
      #1107573 - 12/06/14 12:45 PM
Quote Zukan:

Quote Mixedup:

Quote fay spook:

How about this for an alternative, make your own

Falcon acoustics




Interesting, but it's priced pretty steep considering it's in kit form, and doesn't include the T27 tweeters (about £85 for a pair) or any finish to the wood.




Not sure why they do that M. Even the MS20 is priced too steeply for a kit jobbie.




Yeah. You know, you can pick up a set of KEF 104AB for about £100 (it's what one of my pairs fetched, and what I paid for each pair I bought). They have T27s in. And nice woofers. In fact they sound very nice. There are some lovely bargains to be had second hand - some of the 80s sealed box KEF things sound both beautiful and revealing (for instance, I have some Cantor IIIs that cost me £40). Now, I know the NS10 and the LS3/5a have a few specific qualities to recommend them, but so do some other speakers. It defies belief the price some people seem willing to pay for this stuff.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107597 - 12/06/14 04:03 PM
+1 to looking at options for monitors. The 104s can be a little large for bedroom studios. The B200 are worth money to collectors. However unless I am mistaken the 104s are as reflex as any other because they have an ABR as a substitute for the air in a port. Also if you look at their impedance curves and you will see the classic reflex dual hump. Also older speakers can require some tlc for ageing capacitors, loosening screws and tarnished connectors. And that's before ageing glue and irreplaceable drivers. For example the KEF 105 Daleks I've heard sounded very average with knackered tweeters but the B&W penguins -I can't remember the model number- still sounded relevant to sound like a fashion journalist!!

But there are many many forgotten about speakers you could use in a home studio. How about a Visonik David?

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Mixedup
active member


Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4858
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1107600 - 12/06/14 04:17 PM
Quote fay spook:

unless I am mistaken the 104s are as reflex as any other because they have an ABR as a substitute for the air in a port.




Yep. That's why I also mentioned the smaller Cantor III. Near enough to an NS10ish sort of size, three-way speaker, sealed box and sound great. You can blow the money you save on a decent amp

Point taken about capacitors - but you're going to have that on any old electronics, and it's easily sorted (not like the consequences of the flaming/smoking oil-filled cap in my Hammond!)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22294
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1107607 - 12/06/14 04:58 PM
Quote fay spook:

However unless I am mistaken the 104s are as reflex as any other because they have an ABR as a substitute for the air in a port.




Your memory is intact! The 104s uses a reflex cabinet with an ABR instead of a simple port.

Quote:

How about a Visonik David?




Wow! That brings back memories...

H

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
vinyl_junkie
active member


Joined: 24/06/03
Posts: 1608
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1107618 - 12/06/14 05:23 PM
I have 104aB's, I quite like them in my studio.
Worth noting though that the response is "flat" on the tweeter axis with the acoustic counter control in the "+" position otherwise there is a little dip according to some one who worked for KEF.

He added when I asked him why this was done "There was a BBC paper by Harwood which advocated a hollowed out midrange to reduce "colouration". One such BBC design became the commercially successful Spendor BC1 and it could be said that the 104 was KEF's improved "version" of the BC1. The short coil in a long gap and the ABR replacing a hole in the cabinet, were certainly worthwhile improvements in linearity.

These designs got very good ratings in the very influential Hi-Fi Choice review books of that era. The Model 103 continued the trend, though some said that it was a step too far because of the resulting low subjective sensitivity."

Also the Calinda is essentially a improved 104aB but it wasn't made a "Reference" model cos the 104aB was still selling very well.

I re-capped my 104's x-over with the new ALCAP's Falcon sell and to be honest I couldn't hear much of a difference.. The only thing I seem to notice an improvement in stereo image, when things are mono it's definitely dead centre now.

The construction on these old KEF's is very good, no rattles or air leaks after all these years. The drivers also last well if looked after.

There are a few KEF drivers though that age pretty badly like the T33 where the ferro fluid gunks up the tweeter voice coil as it hardens with age.. But not on all T33's either, the T33 SP1074 is not fluid cooled and is fine, this was fitted to the 103.2 and 105.4.

Any whom back to sealed boxes... I also have some 103.2's, these sound fantastic with music, really suck you in and I do like the low end from the sealed cab. But I feel as if they've been "voiced" and not a very honest speaker. The 104aB may have it's flaws but I feel it shows up nasties in recordings way better than the 103.2

Edited by vinyl_junkie (12/06/14 05:28 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: Mixedup]
      #1108033 - 15/06/14 09:58 PM
Quote Mixedup:

Yeah. You know, you can pick up a set of KEF 104AB for about £100 (it's what one of my pairs fetched, and what I paid for each pair I bought). They have T27s in. And nice woofers. In fact they sound very nice. There are some lovely bargains to be had second hand - some of the 80s sealed box KEF things sound both beautiful and revealing (for instance, I have some Cantor IIIs that cost me £40). Now, I know the NS10 and the LS3/5a have a few specific qualities to recommend them, but so do some other speakers. It defies belief the price some people seem willing to pay for this stuff.




I'm on the look out for some small reference monitors for a tiny acoustically treated spare bedroom ( W 210cm x H 252cm x L 350 ) - listening distance of only a meter. I'm interested in BBC style monitors as the space is small and listening distance so short... I thought the early bass roll of of small non ported designs would be handy so there's not loads bass bouncing around this small space.

Any monitor speaker recommendations? I've already got some HD650 headphones in.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108038 - 15/06/14 10:53 PM
Quote J_J_Breeze:



I'm on the look out for some small reference monitors for a tiny acoustically treated spare bedroom ( W 210cm x H 252cm x L 350 ) - listening distance of only a meter. I'm interested in BBC style monitors as the space is small and listening distance so short... I thought the early bass roll of of small non ported designs would be handy so there's not loads bass bouncing around this small space.

Any monitor speaker recommendations? I've already got some HD650 headphones in.




Sealed boxes might start rolling off earlier than an equivalent ported speaker but the roll off is more gentle so in some ways you get more bass.

If you could give an idea of budget then there might be some better recommendations. Don't forget the BBC don't use as many BBC style monitors already mentioned. Some say the BBC sound is a little chesty, with rolled off treble and (relatively) limited dynamics- think what they were designed to monitor, FM radio tops out at 15k etc. some earlier monitors grew a super tweeter when a domestic version was made. Also this sort of engineering doesn't come cheap. Have a look at the prices of modern versions of some BBC monitors from people like Stirling. Finally you will see a lot of ported monitors- I've seen some technical arguments for reflex loading with larger bass drivers working better than for small ones.

To start look at the speakers mentioned here. Consider some Proacs - I find they sound like Proacs whichever model I hear rather than a window on the sound but others love them. Lots of Tablettes around. PMCs, plenty of the older Dynaudio drivered ones around.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1108040 - 15/06/14 11:14 PM
Quote fay spook:



If you could give an idea of budget then there might be some better recommendations.




Thanks for your reply - I had a budget of about a grand in mind initially, money's not tight - if genuine benefits can be had by spending a bit more I'm okay with it... however I've got a nagging feeling there is going to be diminishing returns in such a small space. So open to any speakers that might do a good job for less...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12504
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108050 - 16/06/14 08:05 AM
Quote J_J_Breeze:


I'm on the look out for some small reference monitors for a tiny acoustically treated spare bedroom ( W 210cm x H 252cm x L 350 ) - listening distance of only a meter. I'm interested in BBC style monitors as the space is small and listening distance so short... I thought the early bass roll of of small non ported designs would be handy so there's not loads bass bouncing around this small space.

Any monitor speaker recommendations? I've already got some HD650 headphones in.




When I bought my monitors. I wanted something small for location recording (active for me), about the same sort of size as the BBC LS3/5a and accurate and trustworthy.

The Harbeth Monitor 20 came out top of the passive monitors for me (same size as the LS3/5a but better).

I tried the PMC DB1 powered monitors, but they did not pass the speech test.

In the end I bought the K+H O110 (now replaced by the Neumann KH120 and are about the best at around the £1k mark) and I used these for several years.

I eventually upgraded to the Geithain RL906, but these are over £2k.

My headphones are the HD800, HD650, HD25-1 and my monitor controller is the Grace m903.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12504
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108051 - 16/06/14 08:08 AM
Quote J_J_Breeze:


I had a budget of about a grand in mind initially, money's not tight - if genuine benefits can be had by spending a bit more I'm okay with it... however I've got a nagging feeling there is going to be diminishing returns in such a small space. So open to any speakers that might do a good job for less...




Spending more *will* get the benefits, as I found out myself and eventually spent the extra (as I detail above).

But if you want to stick around the £1k price, then the KH120 are the ones I would go for, as to get better you have to about double the price.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10875
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108059 - 16/06/14 09:01 AM
To throw a spanner into the works... When I first moved into my current house I set up a temporary studio in the back bedroom. I was hoping to get away with just using my ls3/5a's in there but I ended up moving in the big Tannoy monitors as there were a few times when I just wasn't sure that I was hearing the bass I needed to hear on the ls3/5a's. Well designed bass reflex speakers like the Tannoys don't put out huge amounts of uncontrolled bass and their dual concentric design means that the stereo image, even at the 1.5m distance I was working at, remains solid and focussed. So I would say that you have nothing to fear from well designed large speakers in your space.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12504
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1108099 - 16/06/14 02:55 PM
Quote James Perrett:

To throw a spanner into the works... When I first moved into my current house I set up a temporary studio in the back bedroom. I was hoping to get away with just using my ls3/5a's in there but I ended up moving in the big Tannoy monitors as there were a few times when I just wasn't sure that I was hearing the bass I needed to hear on the ls3/5a's. Well designed bass reflex speakers like the Tannoys don't put out huge amounts of uncontrolled bass and their dual concentric design means that the stereo image, even at the 1.5m distance I was working at, remains solid and focussed. So I would say that you have nothing to fear from well designed large speakers in your space.




The important words being "well designed".

I agree with you about dual concentric (co-axial) designs, which is why I changed.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108250 - 17/06/14 05:37 PM
If you have a grand for passives you need to spend a fair bit on an amplifier to do them justice.

Looking on fleabay I can see some Spendor BC1s buy now £600. But LS3/5As up to £1500. There is an amazing looking JR149 and sub set for £650. These use the same drive units as the LS3/5As but with different crossover and a very different cabinet. I prefer them. Also a pair of JR150s for much the same money. These are the big brothers to the JR149s, with two bass drivers a side each.

New, things get expensive. Stirling Broadcast LS3/5As are about a grand. The Spendors are much the same. If you go up a size to a Spendor SP3 they are about £1800.

For leftfield pair, try and see if you can find some Etude speakers with only 2 BMR drivers a side and no crossover. Don't forget the Eclipse single driver speakers either.

Again, others have said all the good things they need to about the Neumanns etc but, go on, break the mould!!!

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
vinyl_junkie
active member


Joined: 24/06/03
Posts: 1608
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108257 - 17/06/14 07:18 PM
KEF Reference 101's are similar to LS3/5A's Same drivers, different x-over, better cabinets and substantially cheaper. How does £200-£300 sound?
Some people have said they prefer them to 3/5a's too

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/about_kef/museum/1970s/Re...

I don't care how good the 3/5a is I couldn't spend what people are paying on ebay for them now days especially considering what they used to sell for.. Must be just Asians buying them for the BBC heritage lol I could think of much better ways of spending £1-2000


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: fay spook]
      #1108284 - 17/06/14 10:57 PM
Quote fay spook:


Looking on fleabay I can see some Spendor BC1s buy now £600. But LS3/5As up to £1500. There is an amazing looking JR149 and sub set for £650. These use the same drive units as the LS3/5As but with different crossover and a very different cabinet. I prefer them. Also a pair of JR150s for much the same money. These are the big brothers to the JR149s, with two bass drivers a side each.





I'm a bit of sucker for antiques especially if they are likely to appreciate. Can these old speakers be repaired easily? Presumably the rubber driver perish, can they be replaced? What year did silicone drivers take over? And do silicone parts last 50 years ish?

I've been looking into Tannoy System 12 DMT II just now... Looks like a stylish, interesting speaker that can be had for not too much and if the single driver can be used at short listening distances... Could be good, though I'm guessing the rubber has a life span?

Quote vinyl_junkie:

KEF Reference 101's are similar to LS3/5A's Same drivers, different x-over, better cabinets and substantially cheaper. How does £200-£300 sound?





£200-£300 sounds pretty great. I'm the frugal/saver/investor/business man type... So I've always got money, but I love to allocate it wisely. If the performance is similar I'm interested.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10875
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108352 - 18/06/14 09:22 AM
Most of the old BBC related designs use bextrene for their cone material which doesn't seem to disintegrate with age like some other materials do. There was a pair of BC1's advertised on another forum for only £350 - not sure if they're still available now though.

As far as I know, all the Tannoy drivers are repairable. I'm not sure if the DMT's use foam surrounds but the foam surrounds in my Tannoys lasted around 30 years before needing replacement. They aren't single driver as they have a high frequency horn mounted in the centre of the bass driver so they're properly known as dual concentric designs. I'm not a fan of proper single driver speakers as there are just too many compromises needed in their design - as I'm a drummer I like to be able to hear the frequency extremes which you don't seem to get with the single driver speakers I've heard.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: James Perrett]
      #1108358 - 18/06/14 10:15 AM
Quote James Perrett:

Most of the old BBC related designs use bextrene for their cone material which doesn't seem to disintegrate with age like some other materials do.

As far as I know, all the Tannoy drivers are repairable. I'm not sure if the DMT's use foam surrounds but the foam surrounds in my Tannoys lasted around 30 years before needing replacement. They aren't single driver as they have a high frequency horn mounted in the centre of the bass driver.




Thanks that really useful information. Would a speaker like the BC1 be okay at such a short listening distance? Presumably the dual concentric driver design would be better at 1 meter?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10875
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108367 - 18/06/14 11:05 AM
A 2 way design with the drivers located closer together would be better at a short distance as far as imaging is concerned so the BC1 probably isn't ideal for your situation - but I've not used them personally so someone like John would probably be better placed to say how well they would work in practice.

Erm - or am I confusing John with a similar thread involving Ted Kendall elsewhere??? Ah yes, it was the one at

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106889


--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Edited by James Perrett (18/06/14 11:09 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
J_J_Breeze



Joined: 07/05/06
Posts: 24
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1108913 - 21/06/14 07:03 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. I've been giving it some thought and decided to purchase new speakers and just think about the expenditure as something that I'm going to get a lot of pleasure from for 20+ years. The short list I've drawn up in no particular order is:

Acoustic Energy - AE22
Harbeth Monitor - 20.1
Unity Audio - Rock MK2
Unity Audio - Pebble
Neumann - KH120A

I was in Leeds to catch a performance this afternoon and popped into Production Room ( http://www.production-room.com/ ) to audition some monitors. I was hoping to hear the Rock MK2 and Pebble monitors however they were unfortunately out of stock today. However I was really impressed by the retail space and the relaxed and knowledgeable sales person, who invited me to try some Focal, Genelec and Munroe egg monitors. I'd certainly recommend the store to anyone looking to purchase equipment in the north.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Trevor Johnson



Joined: 15/05/10
Posts: 111
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1109039 - 22/06/14 10:25 PM
Quote:

But LS3/5As up to £1500.




KEF Cresta 1, B110/T27, is not exactly dissimilar to the LS3/5 web page and I am looking at mine just now: great small speaker.

One thing about the BC1s is that I bought mine new in October 1980 but about 5 years later both bass units failed, due, Spendor, said to a known issue (lost in the midst of time). So I exchanged mine for some newer units which have been fine since. Something worth checking for buyers of BC1s.

Edited by James Perrett (23/06/14 09:16 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
vinyl_junkie
active member


Joined: 24/06/03
Posts: 1608
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: Harbeth P3ser Spendor S3/5R² vs 'modern monitors' new [Re: J_J_Breeze]
      #1109214 - 24/06/14 06:57 AM
Thing is the Cresta 1's use very different early versions of the T27 and B110. The Cresta 2 on the other hand uses the same type of tweeter and woofer as the 3/5a


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
1 registered and 10 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor 
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 2739

December 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for December 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Blog | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media