Anyone got any idea, if it's possible to convert a 24 fps movie clip to 25 fps. Also what to do about the audio, which would need to be pitched up?I'm using logic pro 9(latest) and the film guys are using Avid.

It involves a process called '3:2 pull up' which duplicates some frame in a sequence to make up the numbers, and the audio would need to be pitched down (by 4% after the transfer), not up.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Cheers Hugh .. of course down. DOH! The visuals aspect is not something I usually deal with, but, how is a 3:2 pull up achieved in practice? Is it possible using AVID, as I said it's not my field but I'm sure the editor would be very interested.

Sorry -- silly me! I was talking utter bollarks again! 3:2 (or 2:3 pull down is used for converting from 29.97fps NTSC TV to 25fps PAL. Shows how long I've not been involved in video transfer work!

24fps film is normally just played slightly fast to output at 25fps -- a 4% speed increase. Avid can definitely do this, but I'm not an avid user so I can't tell you how. I'm seem to recall there's an output frame rate menu somewhere...

This Wiki page explains the various rame rate conversion strategies reasonably well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

I am all at sea here but...
Sony Vegas Pro can do this it seems and if this is a one-off you can download the demo for a month!

Dave.

Cheers again Hugh .. they've figured out the 3:2 up (or down) .. next problem is the Audio should Avid also be able to do the pitch up or can I help them out in LOGIC (though I'd presume there is a tool for that in AVID or Cinema tools or whatever)... but we'll check out the Avid solution .. thanks for that .. i"m sure the wiki link will be of great help ...

Pretty sure AVid can handle the sample rate conversion and pitch issues if instructed.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

thanks Hugh .. I'll let you know

It's not surprising that there is so much confusion.
So... If memory serves me right, 3:2 pulldown is used to transfer 24fps to NTSC 29.98 drop frame timecode. Even HDTV in the USA is not 30p or 30i due to the 'need' to comply with the old NTSC standard.
Actually, 24fps to 25 (or 50i)should not be a huge problem for short clips. Yes it will run slightly fast and there is a pitch shift, but the latter is easily taken care of. It's what happens every day in broadcast TV.
The whole idea of digital HDTV was going to be that everything could start all over again, without the need to take care of legacy imposed by the NTSC standard definition system, with all the confusion of drop fame and non drop frame timecode etc. The same held/holds true for Europe. But there is a huge archive if NTSC, PAL and SECAM material, as well as film.
Everyone becomes more and more confused. And I'm talking here of major broadcasters and producers. One general word of advice when embarking on any HDTV project. Agree with everyone involved, producer, camera crew, sound crew, post house, distributor, broadcaster and publisher exactly (EXACTLY, EXACTLY) what you agreed (AGREED, AGREED, AGREED) workflow is going to be; and GET IN IN WRITING!
Aggrieved former Technical Manager? You bet I am!

Anything can output to anything, as long as it has a built in slo-mo tool (FC Pro, Avid MC, Premier and others). Just set up a project in the desired frame rate, copy and paste (or import) the footage in the old frame rate onto the time-line and then stretch (or squeeze) the footage to be the precise length of the original in the original frame rate.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

24fps film is normally just played slightly fast to output at 25fps -- a 4% speed increase.
hugh

---

So thats why Darth Vader sounds like a girl on the telly, but a monstrous super villain in the cinema.

-----------------
Piet Haag

To get that professional BBC feel for your project:
after standards-converting the material, be sure and throw the original in a skip, set fire to it and then bury the ashes in landfill.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~