I finished making my desk for my home studio. I have a lot of gear thus far, but need to add a few items to make it worthy of a professional home studio. I have about 4k to spend to get it up to par. Can you provide some suggestions on 1.) additional gear to buy for recording/producing? I am producing my own rock/metal album. Here is what I have so far:

Recording Hardware:
High-end computer with 8 GB RAM and 2TB Hardrive
M-Audio Keyboard with mixer capabilities (for controlling my daw)
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Recording Interface
Dual Flatscreen monitors
Little Labs Redeye 3D reamp box
Yamaha HS80M Monitors w/ Yamaha HS10W Subwoofer

Recording Software:
Cubase 6 (daw)
Spectrasonics Trillian (midi bass)
Superior Drummer 2.0 (midi drums)- w/ add-on pack
Celemony Melodyne Editor
Samples and Plugins

Recording Mics:
SM57(guitar)
Seinhesser MD421 (guitar)
Shure KSM27 (vocals)
Pop Filter

Outboard Gear:
(2) Professional Tube Amps
Rack full of effects w/ Voodoo Lab GCX Switcher (for patching if necessary)
ISP Decimator Pro Rack G Noise Gate
Roland TD-9 Midi Drum Set (plugged into Cubase and Superior Drummer 2.0)
THD Hotplate
Lots of quality GEETARS

So, right now I am considering upgrading my recording interface (Focusrite Saffire Pro40) to a RME Fireface UFX (2k). Would that be sufficient for my needs for guitar and vocal recordings? Or, would I need to buy a quality preamp/compressor like a Universal Audio 6176? Do I need to upgrade my vocal mic too (Shure KSM27)? What is my best approach to maximize my sound within my budget? THANKS!

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Please define "need".

Thank you.

"NEED" = quality gear that I can use to improve my recording and sound within my budget of 4k

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Start with the environment and work in.

Room
Artists
Tranducers

That alone will destroy your 4k and more.

Reg

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Google less; read more!

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Start with the environment and work in.

Room
Artists
Tranducers

That alone will destroy your 4k and more.

Reg

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Room...got a good room with acoustically treated areas.
Artists...I'm the only one at this point, so I'm cheap!
Tranducers....huh? Yep. I'm a noob...

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Ok so you're making a metal album...you're using samples for drums and bass. You have a decent converter in that focusrite and it has some high quality mic amps included. You have a 57.

The amp and cab will be a pretty crucial element for the guitars. What are they?

I might get a used SM7 for vocals as an option.

You need to treat the spaces. It's very important. You dont need to spend a lot, but you do need to make sure that you're getting a dry, even recording.

You should spend 2-3 grand getting the record mixed.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Quote Jack Ruston:

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Ok so you're making a metal album...you're using samples for drums and bass. You have a decent converter in that focusrite and it has some high quality mic amps included. You have a 57.

The amp and cab will be a pretty crucial element for the guitars. What are they?

I might get a used SM7 for vocals as an option.

You need to treat the spaces. It's very important. You dont need to spend a lot, but you do need to make sure that you're getting a dry, even recording.

You should spend 2-3 grand getting the record mixed.

J

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Yep. I will do all my drums and bass via midi samples. I have the most flexibility in this option and it always leaves room to remix with better samples if and when they come available once I have my guitars recorded. The amp is a boutique tube amp running a couple thousand. I have a 4x12 cab w/ Vintage 30's in it. I am ordering acoustic sound treatment for my space as well. The recording will be mixed and mastered by some pros at a later point.

I am primarily concerned with the ability to record good vocals and a high quality preamp/digital interface. At least, that is what I think I need...

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Hi

My very humble opinion is you might want to think about whether you want to be a musician, or an engineer. It's just that for some, perhaps many, the engineering side eventually destroys the musical creative process, or the creative side keeps getting frustrated by the engineer. Seen several projects just grind to a halt because one person is doing both roles.

One thing I do believe though - it's rarely about gear.

cheers
A

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getting better all the time..

If the Focusrite is working then there's absolutely no need to change it.

If I wanted more inputs I would add an 8 channel pre-amp/A-D box like the Audient ASP008 and connect it to the ADAT input of the Focusrite.

Otherwise, I would suggest that you collaborate with an experienced engineer who can get the best out of the gear you have.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Edited by James Perrett (23/05/12 09:16 AM)

Quote adrian_k:

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Hi

My very humble opinion is you might want to think about whether you want to be a musician, or an engineer. It's just that for some, perhaps many, the engineering side eventually destroys the musical creative process, or the creative side keeps getting frustrated by the engineer. Seen several projects just grind to a halt because one person is doing both roles.

One thing I do believe though - it's rarely about gear.

cheers
A

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Thanks for the input. Yes, you have a valid point. It can be very frustrating trying to do both. However, learning how to engineer my own stuff (on a basic level), has allowed me to be more efficient with my song writing process. To start off, I simply lay down my guitar track ideas...cut and splice them into spots to arrange the songs, then I go back and play them all the way through properly. I am able to set up different time signatures to play to a click track and so forth. Anyway, I don't want to be a fulll-fledged engineer. I'm not naive enough to think that I am as good, or will be as good, as the people who do this for a living. For now, I am simply trying to learn about the process and continue to improve what I am doing. At the same time, I have found that the better I have things setup (with gear, watching tutorials, etc), the more efficient I have become. So...yeah...now that's out of the way...

Can you provide insight on what I am ASKING in this post?

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Quote Jack's Joy:

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Can you provide insight on what I am ASKING in this post?

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Quote Jack's Joy:

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What is my best approach to maximize my sound within my budget?

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OK.. well, since you are happy with your workflow:

- treat your mix environment since you can't make decisions on what you are hearing unless you can trust what you hear (I see you have another post going on that, so great).
- don't think you can make it all sound better by spending money on more gear, until you know what problem you are trying to solve. You mention you want to record 'high quality vocals' - what don't you like about the vocals you record at the moment? Once you ave identified that you can start working through some options, maybe hiring some gear along the way to see what difference it makes. Then make a purchasing decision.
- Last, you mention you will involve an engineer at the mixing stage. Things will go quicker and smoother if you involve one at the tracking stage too, because he will know what sound he is trying to capture to make the mix work better later.

Good luck with it all

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getting better all the time..

Quote adrian_k:

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Quote Jack's Joy:

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Can you provide insight on what I am ASKING in this post?

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Quote Jack's Joy:

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What is my best approach to maximize my sound within my budget?

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OK.. well, since you are happy with your workflow:

- treat your mix environment since you can't make decisions on what you are hearing unless you can trust what you hear (I see you have another post going on that, so great).
- don't think you can make it all sound better by spending money on more gear, until you know what problem you are trying to solve. You mention you want to record 'high quality vocals' - what don't you like about the vocals you record at the moment? Once you ave identified that you can start working through some options, maybe hiring some gear along the way to see what difference it makes. Then make a purchasing decision.
- Last, you mention you will involve an engineer at the mixing stage. Things will go quicker and smoother if you involve one at the tracking stage too, because he will know what sound he is trying to capture to make the mix work better later.

Good luck with it all

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So, I apparently posted on the wrong forum asking for some simple answers on how to maximize a budget for stocking my studio with some quality gear as I move forward to track an album. Let's see....get an engineer to do the tracking....involve an engineer for the mixing....pay for professional mastering.... is there anyone that can answer the questions in the topic instead of pushing to turn this into a 'job security' thread?!?

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Thank you for answering my questions. That sounds like a great approach!

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

The gear you have is already quite capable of delivering top quality results.

The usual limiting factors are the room acoustics and the skill/experience of the user. You say you have already sorted out the acoustics -- we must take your word on that, but I will reiterate that this is the usual area that differentiates between 'professional' and 'home studio' quality. Not the preamps, mics, interfaces or DAWs!

If you chose the KSM because it suits your voice perfectly, then that's great. If not, it might be worth spending some of your budget on an alternative vocal mic that really delivers the desirable qualities of your voice, and minimises the undesirable ones. This isn't about cost -- I'm sure you'll find some expensive mics that just don't work on your voice, and you might get lucky and find a cheap mic that is the perfect match.

If you think your voice would benefit from a thicker, wamer, squashed character, then again, you could consider an outboard preamp like the 6176 or any of the hundreds of others out there. But these things add very subtle polish and flavour. If you're having your work mixed elsewhere you can probably add this kind of polish and flavour using outboard equipment at the mix stage, or even some ITB plug-ins.

The critical thing about making quality recordings, as was suggested earlier, is to get the 'holy trinity' right: the right material, performed by the right person, in the right space.

That means good songs with strong arrangements, skillful, well rehearsed performances, and optimal acoustics -- whether that means a fabulous acoustic or a dead but well balanced space (the latter being the usual approach in a home studio).

Without those it doesn't matter what mics, preamps, interfaces or anything else you throw at it, it will always sound amatuerish and disappointing.

With those, it doesn't matter what mics, preamps, interfaces or anything else you throw at it, it will always sound good. Better equipment will make small differences that might be worthwhile, but probably wont affect sales!

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote adrian_k:

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Hi

One thing I do believe though - it's rarely about gear.

A

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I completely disagree with this statement. Let's take a prime example. You have two guys...one is a professional race car driver and the other is a 16 year old kid. The race car driver is in the go car and the 16 year old is in the Ferrari. Who's gonna win? Probably the 16 year old. HOWEVER, there is a good chance that 16 year old could crash because he has no skills, while the race car driver may know some tricks of the road to pass at the right time. Right? NOW...let's put that race car driver in the Ferrari and see what happens! The same is with music. BEST GEAR + BEST SKILLS = BEST PRODUCT. Right now, I am intermediate at both and trying to work on both ends of the spectrum.

I am hoping that you guys...some of the best engineers...can say "GEE WHIZ...that numbskull is missing a compressor!" (or something obvious that I have overlooked). So, is there anything I am overlooking as I move forward or not?

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Quote Jack's Joy:

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I completely disagree with this statement.

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That is, of course, your prerogative... but for what it's worth, I'm with Adrian on this.

Of course it's always nice to have the very best equipment, but we are generally talking about diminishing returns. Unlike the situation in the 70s and 80s, today's budget equipment performs extremely well, with technical specifications which are barely any less accomplished than the best professional equipment.

The equipment really, honestly, genuinely, isn't the deciding factor anymore. A good engineer can achieve superb results with budget gear if used well -- as many top albums and hits demonstrate every year.

The skills are what matter today, not the equipment. If you can't achieve the quality you seek with what you currently have, and assuming you really have gor the 'holy trinity' sorted out as I described earlier, then the chances are that its the skills that are probably the limiting factor -- which is the case for most of us here I'm sure.

Quote:

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I am hoping that you guys...some of the best engineers...can say "GEE WHIZ...that numbskull is missing a compressor!" (or something obvious that I have overlooked). So, is there anything I am overlooking as I move forward or not?

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Nope. The stuff you have is enough to get the job done. You could embellish with different mics or preamps if you need a specific flavour, as I discussed earlier, but you'd really have to try different things to find what specifically works for you. There's no point casualy throwing money at it in the hope of finding something magical.

If the money is burning a hole in your pocket there are lots of lovely shiny things you could buy to make you feel good. But I honestly don't think they will make much difference to your results. Working with someone with more experience probably would...

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

These aren't job security answers mate. I do appreciate that it might sound that way...you go on a forum and ask about your gear and everyone says 'hire one of us'. I get it, but no-one here is putting themselves forward or making these comments because we think there's work in it. The truth of it is that most of us at some point have been through the 'disappointment cycle' with expensive gear purchases. You buy things which you believe will make a huge difference, and at first you think they do. But after a very short time you hit the end stops with your results again. And this cycle continues until you sort out the source and the room. Anyway, everyone has said that, and I know you get the point so I'll talk about what I would use for this sort of record and then maybe that might spark some further discussion...

In no real order

1. I'd want a dry tight sounding live room for guitars and vocal tracking.

2. I'd want API mic pres for those guitars.

3. I'd want a pair of distressors which I'd use for some of the tracking stuff and across the drums at the mix.

4. I'd want an SSL 384 bus compressor for mixing.

5. I'd want to at least try an SM7 for the vocal.

6. I'd want a really good high gain amp...a Diezel Herbert or VH4, some sort of modded JCM800, an SLO100 that sort of thing. I'd want a 4x12 that worked well with that amp.

7. I'd want a high end valve compressor for some of the vocal stuff and possibly the bass in the mix...a retro 176 maybe

8. I'd want an Anamod ATS1 for the guitars and mix bus.

9. I'd want a mix bus eq...GML8200 or I'm rather partial to the Dangerous Bax.

This is not exhaustive. If I couldn't have any of those things it wouldn't be a major drama. In terms of the 'gear' items, the amp is the most important, followed by the distressors and the bus compressor. The eq's and mic pres are the least important, assuming access to your focusrites which are inoffensive.

J

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www.jackruston.com

take the best song you have and record it now with the gear you have. then assess where the weak points are - this is where to spend the cash. It could be on gear, room, mixing, other musicians etc etc. spending on anything at this point will be a total lottery.

we've all asked this same question at some point, we've all chosen to ignore the answer and continued to waste money on gear we don't need. why not record something, post it on here and see what the expert folk advise???

Quote Jack's Joy:

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Quote adrian_k:

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Hi

One thing I do believe though - it's rarely about gear.

A

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I completely disagree with this statement. Let's take a prime example. You have two guys...one is a professional race car driver and the other is a 16 year old kid. The race car driver is in the go car and the 16 year old is in the Ferrari. Who's gonna win? Probably the 16 year old. HOWEVER, there is a good chance that 16 year old could crash because he has no skills, while the race car driver may know some tricks of the road to pass at the right time. Right? NOW...let's put that race car driver in the Ferrari and see what happens! The same is with music. BEST GEAR + BEST SKILLS = BEST PRODUCT. Right now, I am intermediate at both and trying to work on both ends of the spectrum.

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I listened to the samples on your reverbnation page, expecting singer/songwriter or bedroom DJ/dance.... Its pretty clear what you need is a band, an audience, tours, pr, radio sessions, etc etc. There is absolutely nil chance that your music will break out on the back of recordings alone, regardless of how good they sound. You need to focus on writing (possibly with a singer) and then hone your craft on stage and in the rehearsal room. Worry about making records later - its just not relevant at this stage of development

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Piet Haag

Quote Jack's Joy:

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Quote adrian_k:

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Hi

One thing I do believe though - it's rarely about gear.

A

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I completely disagree with this statement. Let's take a prime example. You have two guys...one is a professional race car driver and the other is a 16 year old kid......

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Yeah but this example doesn't work! Making a successful record is not at all the same as winning a car race! Unless the race results are decided by a very large number of people who have completely different independent criteria for choosing a winner. Some may only ever vote for 16 year olds. Some will go for the slower, lo-tech appeal of the go-cart, no matter who is driving. Etc.

But I understand you are frustrated, you probably want to maximise the impact of your music in the minimum timeframe and you might suspect there is a killer piece of gear out there that will make a huge difference. But as the others have said, you sound like you have a good setup, you should be able to get some pretty decent results with that.

If I had to make a gear recommendation or die, assuming the room is sorted and that the guitar amps deliver the goods - I'd get a U87. On first listen it doesn't seem to do much for you. On most vocal sources though it works well and can be easier to mix - that's what I've found anyway. And it holds its price well so if you decide it's not for you you won't lose out too much.

cheers
A

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getting better all the time..

Thanks for the thorough explanation. I finally 'get it'. Work with I have and outsource the stuff that is beyond my ability and pocketbook.

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www.reverbnation.com/jacksjoy

Think about MIDI and samples as well, I know they're quick and easy to program, but they can drag home recordings down a bit sometimes.

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Do you need real drum tracks? http://www.drumtracksdirect.co.uk/