My music making life was expanded beyond expectation back in the mid 90s by an article in SOS suggesting good/cheap second hand buys with which to build a studio. Now 15 or so years later I'm back in business and rebuilding on a very small budget. Acquiring hardware is easily dealt with - Kawai K5000, Casio VZ, Korg Prophecy, Roland VP9000 et al through a Roland SI24 + Edirol 2496 connected via a Presonus VFire into a G4 Mac (OS 4.11).
However the world of software defeats me. I can't upgrade beyond OSX 4 (Tiger) because of hardware compatability. Fine on one hand because Logic 7/8 and Sibelius 3 do all I need to do. But when it comes to other programmes for things like midi/sysex control of my hardware (Unisyn or SoundDiver) I can't find older/compatable versions to buy. I'd also be very happy with earlier (simpler) versions of current (intel only?) synths/FX/etc. What's the word with buying, selling, exchanging 'old' software? Is there somewhere it can be found/bought?
Simple things become so difficult in this modern world of "update it and throw it". Currently I'm 'touring' and my mt4 interface has sprung a driver 'leak'. I don't have my master discs of Logic with me (a lesson there I think) and of course Apple (huge surge of fury arising within!) has canned its archives of such things. So ... no music making for me!
Anyway, an up-to-date article on building a studio with preloved soft/hardware might be a useful thing? Any chance guys?
Cheers, Mac!

Old rubbish is old rubbish.

The idea that any sane person would want to resurrect old and unreliable computers using old disks that are very likely to fail is just too bizarre to contemplate as a viable way of doing anything.

Some old kit (Old Kitt! Gadd, how that woman drove me mad!) like the Prophecy, is brilliant, but computers are there to provide the latest and best technology, to give us absolute fidelity, multiple features and ease of use. That is their comparative advantage, just as soft distortion is the comparative advantage of valves and clean, latency-free signal paths are the comparative advantage of transistors. Go back in time to five-inch floppies and small green screens and you give away the one and only reason for using a computer!

So you are just going to have to get an iMac and load it with Reaper, ProTools or something and get with the programme!

Somehow you've acquired and are reinforcing a belief that newer computers/operating systems/software are 'more complicated', yet you are struggling to get older technology working because it suffers from incompatibilities, restrictions and lack of support.

If you are going to use old technology then you need to be self-sufficient in getting and keeping it running.

There's a reason we all moved on from that older technology. Loads of us are happily making music, but you are stuck trying to get a system that works. Time to take the hint methinks!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Personally I'd invest the money you'd otherwise be spending on not-that-good 90s hardware into a modern Mac/Logic system, and possibly some third-party plugins.

Modern, streamlined, powerful, great sounding, compact, productive - what's not to like..!

Messing around with sysex, and loading floppies into samplers seems like so... twenty years ago...

Note: if you have Logic 7, then you have a dongle, which means you can download and use the SoundDiver 3 beta - google around and you'll be able to find a copy.

Edited by desmond (26/06/12 08:54 AM)

Old computers are a waste of time for sure if they start getting buggy. It's perfectly possible to control all that hardware on a newer system and you don't need to buy the latest and greatest model. A second hand Mac mini running logic should run fine.

My system is perfectly reliable - I'd just like to expand its possibilities a bit. I like hardware because I'm a very 'hands-on' kinda person. Not that thrilled with programming by mouse. Prefer to 'play in' live. Hence the Prophecy - which is actually cheaper than a lot of controller keyboards - with more 'player' features. Love that ribbon/log!
One reason for using older stuff: My Roland SI24, Edirol 24/96 combination give me a control surface (flying faders with surround joystick etc plus perfect integration with Logic) AND 16 in/outs @ 24/96 all for the princely sum of £180!
Anywho ... I reckon that way to go is with what ever system suits your way of working and enhances your creativity. The best gear in the world doesn't automatically equate to great music!
Cheers Mac

I'd love to be 'up-to-date' and use all the latest gear. I have no particular beef about new vs old. Pros and cons with both I think. But as I pointed out in my first post I am on a budget - actually a tiny tiny budget. And I want to get as much variety as I can for my money. And also as I said above, I want gear that suits the way I imagine and like to create.
Cheers Mac

Quote mac.churchmouse:

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My system is perfectly reliable - I'd just like to expand its possibilities a bit. I like hardware because I'm a very 'hands-on' kinda person. Not that thrilled with programming by mouse. Prefer to 'play in' live. Hence the Prophecy - which is actually cheaper than a lot of controller keyboards - with more 'player' features. Love that ribbon/log!
One reason for using older stuff: My Roland SI24, Edirol 24/96 combination give me a control surface (flying faders with surround joystick etc plus perfect integration with Logic) AND 16 in/outs @ 24/96 all for the princely sum of £180!
Anywho ... I reckon that way to go is with what ever system suits your way of working and enhances your creativity. The best gear in the world doesn't automatically equate to great music!
Cheers Mac

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I'm not suggesting you give up your hardware. You do seem to be contradicting yourself however. Your original post talked of things not working, driver 'leaks' etc.... And now say its perfectly reliable! Clearly if you keep computers well beyond their intended lifespan you are taking a risk on hardware and software incompatibilities.

A Mac mini core 2 duo with 2 gb ram went for 189 pounds recently. I would suggest that as a minimum spec for you.

Quote The Red Bladder:

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Old rubbish is old rubbish.

The idea that any sane person would want to resurrect old and unreliable computers using old disks that are very likely to fail is just too bizarre to contemplate as a viable way of doing anything.

Some old kit (Old Kitt! Gadd, how that woman drove me mad!) like the Prophecy, is brilliant, but computers are there to provide the latest and best technology, to give us absolute fidelity, multiple features and ease of use. That is their comparative advantage, just as soft distortion is the comparative advantage of valves and clean, latency-free signal paths are the comparative advantage of transistors. Go back in time to five-inch floppies and small green screens and you give away the one and only reason for using a computer!

So you are just going to have to get an iMac and load it with Reaper, ProTools or something and get with the programme!

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Sometimes I have real difficulty telling whether a response is 'tongue-in-cheek', or just 'head-up-arse'...

In this case, I'm hoping it's the former, in which case I'll just say, artfully done!

But, in case it's actually the latter, then I'll just say, nope, no worries with the latest, greatest computers and disks, which never, ever malfunction or fail...


=Goddard
('tongue-in-arse-cheek'?)

My attitude to old computers is that they are 'of their time'. That means that, while they may serve a useful purpose, they cannot be expected to do the things that a newer (or older) machine can. I have an old Windows98 Pentium2 machine which works fine for transferring DAT tapes to disc (the Zefiro audio card can automatically translate DAT start ID's into CD track markers) and for CD copying but there is no way I would use it for virtual instruments or large multitrack projects.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Goddard:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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Old rubbish is old rubbish.

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Sometimes I have real difficulty telling whether a response is 'tongue-in-cheek', or just 'head-up-arse'...

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I commute!

"Can You Still Make Music With An Elderly PC?"

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/articles/pcmusician_1206.htm

Fair dues! I edit my statement to read - all my gear has been perfectly reliable until the emagic/apple mt4 played up. Its a common fault, not limited to the computer its attached to, or OS - would occur with intel minis etc.
Not a usual forum visitor - so not entirely sure about how seriously I take some of these responses. Are people trying to be helpful? Really?
I'm gonna sign out of this, merely repeating; Its the music that matters not the gear. Cheers Mac

Quote Goddard:

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"Can You Still Make Music With An Elderly PC?"

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/articles/pcmusician_1206.htm

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PS: Thanks Goddard! Mac

Quote mac.churchmouse:

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Fair dues! I edit my statement to read - all my gear has been perfectly reliable until the emagic/apple mt4 played up. Its a common fault, not limited to the computer its attached to, or OS - would occur with intel minis etc.
Not a usual forum visitor - so not entirely sure about how seriously I take some of these responses. Are people trying to be helpful? Really?
I'm gonna sign out of this, merely repeating; Its the music that matters not the gear. Cheers Mac

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Ok I understand now! I was under the impression your system wasn't working for you that well for you.

But as it is, the solution is quite simple. Buy replacement hardware on eBay, using PayPal. If gear is advertised as fully working then it has to work, or you can send it back or get a refund. If the seller refuses, PayPal will step in and reverse the transaction.