Reading the few posts on here about buying things such as the Memorymoog has made me realise just how silly some people are willing to be!

Over the years I have owned a "few" Vintage synths and can tell you this for certain, yes they are nice to have and yes they do have an historical something about them but... they are a pain!!

Do people realise the cost of maintaining these wonders? A general service on something is going to cost you between £100-£200. Parts are getting hard to find as well. I KNOW some of you think they are worth it but Im not so sure anymore, and with good viable alternatives in the world is there a need?

My only real classic synth in my collection now is a Jupiter 8 and I also have a Roland System 100M Im selling due to a lack of space. However I dont think Im going to contemplate buying another vintage synth again as the cost of keeping them working is getting higher by the year, plus good technicians are few and far. I have one I use ALL the time and another I have just started to use, but only on the recommendation of my first tech whom I trust 100%.

A good tech is going to charge you around £30-£50 an hour, now dont get me wrong but I had my Minimoog overhauled a few months ago and the labour bill was £600!! A wonderful classic synth, and I was prepared for the bill, however is it worth it? I sold the synth in the end, but that money is lost, and unless you are earning ALOT from your synths is it worth putting that sort of investment in to them?

I have friends, general record buying type people, who cant tell the difference between a Minimoog and a good clone of one, so why bother!

The Alesis Andromeda is capable of sounding like most big American Poly Synths, and a few Mono ones as well, so why waste £2000 on a Memorynoog with its potential up keep, or £1200 on a Prophet 5, full of CEM chips that are starting to fail? CEM chips were designed with a 20-25 year life span, most are now starting to approach that. They also suffer from Electromagnetic Migration, basicly the more you use them the quicker they die.

Im as big a Vintage synth fan as there is but sometimes you have to wise up and realise there is a better way to get the same results.

Maybe people will wake up a little and realise you can buy NEW real Analogue synths for less than VINTAGE ones; and yes they do sound as good as the old ones!! If you dont think they do then you have not spent enough time with classic synths. I have heard a "new" synth doing a pretty dam good Minimoog, I was convinced so why shouldnt you be?

Sorry for the rant but come on... Think before you hand over the cash. Im sure that if you buy a classic synth for £2000 and factor in the potential problems you will realise its not worth it. Speaking to a dealer a few motnhs ago I was told they had had a synth in stock that each time it was put up for sale it went wrong, and this was after a service prior to going on sale.

I guess Im gonna get a bashing now

Edited by Synthacon (25/11/04 02:00 AM)

Hey Synthacon,

Excellent rant. D'you want to turn it into a Sounding Off?

Where do you get your synths serviced? I think it's about time I had my JP8 done, the tuning is starting to drift...

Sam

Great thread, but some of the modern stuff is just not the same, made of plastic, too many menus, OS with bugs, have to wait for release after release - I have been told by two people that the Andromida has suffered from hardware and software faults.

It is the same with cars. I have owned four mers and preferred my two vintage mercs to the two new ones, my 944S2 to my current Boxster - and I cannot fit the JP6 I just bought into the Boxster but I could in the 944. There is just something about some of the older stuff, cars as well, and so long as you get some good advice and a good tech then it can be a very pleasurable experience. I have just spoken with a tech at Yamaha who used to service the CS range, he not only told be where to get spares for the CS60 that I am thinking of buying, but he also gave the telephone number of who he thinks is the best guy in the UK to service the CS range. However if you can recommend a modern synth that will emulate the CS and give me a similar tactile interaction then I will demo it - but I cannot find one!

I have asked a number of people who I trust for advice and have also asked here. I think that so long as you are not deluded it can be fun. I do think though that there are plenty of younger people who buy vintage without having much of a clue; I'm meeting them and buying their gear off them - and it is the same with turntables - which I also buy and sell.

As a recent review in sos recently said - you would be better off with a macbeth MX than a minimoog, and I agree with this and am waiting for the next release - but that Voyager is looking mighty tempting!

Dominic

I love these kinda topics. I can understand where you're coming from, and luckily I'm by no means a serious collector, but its not only the production/programming element that matters.

From my personal perspective, the few synths I own have yet to cause any reliability concerns. At the most I have one key on the CAT that acts a bit funny, (but fine after a 20 minute warmup), and the MS-20 needs to be calibrated.

Amusingly, I was once getting a Watkins Copicat tape echo repaired by one of the original engineers. He couldnt understand why I would want to repair something thats so old, and unreliable. The tapes used on it would 'thump' with every rotation, and sound would warp. This is EXACTLY the sound I wanted. You have to understand that it produces what I would call a 'nice' texture. I have both a transistor and tube copicat, and they both have varying 'textures'.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I'm attempting to achieve a varying constrast in sound with my work. As you know, a Pro-1 sounds cleaner than a CAT, an ARP 2600's character is different from a Minimoog. If it means I have to fork out some money on repairs, then so what. Even new hardware suffers the same fate (my Lexicon PCM91, failed on me 1 year ago, finally had the powerboard delivered to me for £89).

I have no doubt that the Alesis Andromeda can re-produce everything (and more), say, my ARP 2600 does, but there are certain elements within the 2600 that add extra bite to a sound - The 2600's pre-amp can add buckets-loads of power, & high-end nuences. The spring reverb can be bashed around for some fairly amusing elements. The oscillators/filters themselves have their own 'character'. The 2600, in my opinion, is more aggressive than the Andromeda. You see my point?

Don't get me wrong... I agree with you, that certain individuals will easily part with their money for something thats a potential nightmare, and I'm sometimes amused by the lengths people will go to in order to own a specific synth simply because of its 'name'. But I wouldnt simply say, sell it, get an andromeda.

This goes for everyone in to the whole vintage synthesis thing... There is a fine line between which synths will reap the most rewards, but at the end of the day you simply have to do your research!

I was once interested in the Memorymoog after reading reports (web gossip) that it was basically like owning a couple of minimoogs, but after chatting to a few people, they said it wasnt worth the hassle due to reliability issues. The same is said about Voyetra-8 (revs 1-3) and CS-80 (one guy had it back at Music Control a few days after buying it!).

FInally, on the synth 'feature' front, I would rather own a couple of old synths, that have a contrasting/quirky sound, than just one synth that can do all that... simply because its character sound will be the same.

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Lawrence Eldridge - Obscuresounds

Because they make you grin from ear to ear, as I am currently doing having just bought a timewarp LAMM minimoog at a great price. I demo'd it side to side with the Voyager and the Voyager just did not have the character, it was too clean sounding. I also bought a minikorg 700 - a synth with a lovely tone and again a timewarp example with beautiful switches and polished wooden cabinet - I cannot think of a modern synth that I would talk about in the same way apart from a Kurzweil k2600 maybe. But for dependability I would take a Kurzweil and maybe and Ion on the road! Horses for courses. And I still love my Kurzweil but not in the same way - there is not the same level of emotion attached - ooops I hope that my girlfriend does not read this!

I think Synthacon and Flip make good points.
I have just repaired one of the oscillator boards in my 1967 Farfisa Compact, a relatively simple job. This thing still sounds just amazing, unlike anything else I have.
On the other hand, one of the voices in my Jupiter 8 has gone again, for about the fourth time in the ten years I've owned it. It being such a complex beast (for my skill and diagnostic level), I'll have to leave this to an experienced tech, which won't be cheap (and if it was I'd be more worried!).

If you want the character, you have to be prepared to pay the price.

However, if you really really want to explore sonic textures, and not just re-hash what's gone before, I think you are only limited by your imagination and resourcefulness, not so much by your wallet.

When everyone is looking one way, sometimes it pays to look around at the stuff they are missing.....
Like when I picked up an old Yammy autochord jobbie (QY20) and stuck it thru my sansamp pedal..... or stuck my (once-thought-to-be-boring) DX7 thru a home made wah wah..... or when Marshall Jefferson used a discarded TB303 on a dance track he was making... etc etc

.

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Hi all
When I first got into vintage stuff it was to SAVE money! I couldn't afford the prices asked for new synths so I got a juno, a roland 80 and a jupiter 4. Even these days, an Andromeda is not cheap and in 10 years time, it'll probably cost a lot to repair if it needs it. In all my years I have never spent much on servicing despite having owned a LOT of stuff. Modulars are easy to service or fix usually (even Buchla) and the others are usually reliable if looked after.
So, I have never had big problems except with a rhodes chroma which cost me £500 to fix and I got £600 when I sold it...Big loss on that, but still a great synth.
Memorymoogs I have avoided however....

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http://www.davidmorley.com

Well done on the LAMM Minimoog Jupiter_4, I know ALOT of people who prefer it to the Voyager. To be honest an ongoing repair issue with the Minimoog is not that bad. Most of what is in side is discret electronics so can be easily kept going, compared to say an OB8 which is stuffed full of CEM chips and hard to find DAC's.

The Korg 700 is a nice sounding unit, but here my feelings drift alittle. I have a biggish Modular and one of the filters the company I got it from are working on is aa early Korg VCF, using modern components and sounding the same. Plus you get that tactile interaction and trust me I grin from ear to ear when Im stood in front of a few sold Oak cases and a pile of patch cables!!

Synths such as the ARP 2600 are very nice to have around, I know I used to have 3 of them in my time, however maintaining them is an BIG issue, and one which Im not sure is worth it alot of the time any more.

I have a friend who makes Electronic Music and once he has put all his sounds on a CD even people with huge collections of old and rare synths dont know what he has used, most thing he has racks of Jupiter 8', Minimoogs and god knows what else when alot of the time he uses very cheap digital instruments and one of the modern modular systems.

I just think there is a large proportion of people out there that really dont have any idea what they are getting themselves in to when it comes to this wonderful instuments.

Im not against them, I have owned and used more than most over the last few years, but on the other hand I have also had a stream of cash going to my technician to keep them going, and all for what? I guess most of it at the time was a bit of lust, I know I just had to have my RSF Kobol's for instance, but when you realise they are stuffed full of very hard to get parts, all SSM, you think is it worth having them sat here when I can get the same sound from a MOTOM 440 VCF, and it guess which avenue I took?

It was the same with my Oberheim Xpanders, you can not get the VDU's for them anymore, anywhere, now if one went I would be stuck with a £1200 instrument that I can not use anymore!!

Some synths are better than others however, the Minimoog, Oberheim SEM and indeed even the VCS3 and early Moog Modular's have alot of parts you can still get and will still be able to get for a while yet, however I would now think very carefully about other units that use custom chips, the Yamaha CS range for instance and things that use SSM chips and indeed even the more common CEM stuff.

Im not trying to put people off buying these units Im just trying to get over that there are alternatives that can make you smile and sound just as good, in a way its like when your a child and your parents have you try some new food, you are convinved you will not like before you have even tried and I guess it is the same with the new Analogue synths that are now available.

Hi
I Don't know why maintaining your ARP 2600's has been such a problem. I haven't done anything much to mine and I've been using them for 15 years....
Maybe it's luck.

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http://www.davidmorley.com

What about the Roland system 100M? I have just been reading my Roland Keyboards vol 3 from March 83 and I am surprised that it seems to be less intimidating that other modulare systems that I have seen - less patch cables! I know that modulars can do much more than the hard wired stuff but what Roland synth would the 1ooM filter be closest to? JP8? JP4? SH09? Also beig japanese are their reliability problems or would I be better going for a more modern modular? (but i do have a soft spot for Roland gear!)

Do the moderns sound too clean? I do not want to get into a vintage is better war but i easily preferred the model D over the Voyager - the D had a more characterful filter even though I could do more with the Voyager. Hmmm Voyager plus control unit plus moogerfoogers - interesting but I need polyphonic modular. I'm looking at the Roland polyphonic 4cv keyboard right now on page 3. How says that page 3 is a bad thing! cheers Dominic

Here's a perspective from a recovering analog synth addict. Back in the day, the analogs were cheap and if they were defective in some way, they were cheaper still. I knew some good local techs here in the States, but it was a pain to have a Prophet 5 in for service for a month and the repair bills were not cheap even back then.

So, to save money I started teaching myself to do basic clean and calibration of the gear. This immediately cut down the trips to the tech. After that, simple repairs, then more complex repairs.

As a result, I was able to fill up a large room (and then some!) with working, calibrated vintage synths. What's the downside? Well, I was spending my free time working on gear instead of playing it. Your time is not free. Repeat that:

your time is not free.

In the end, I decided to sell off a bunch of triples and doubles, sell off 'redundant' synths (even though addicts know there's not really any such thing), and sell off the repair/maintenance nightmares.

If you still want to own the older gear (and this extends to consoles, multi-track tape decks, and effects units), you need at a minimum:

complete service docs, oscilloscope, soldering iron, desoldering tool, multimeter, various small hand tools, and the knowledge of how to use them all. It's also nice to have a cache of hard to find spare parts like CEM and SSM ICs, various sealed modules or custom ICs, pots, switches, or even complete spare units.

Bottom line for me is that the sound and interface of the old gear is still unbeatable and it's worth the hassles to keep using it, so I keep spending the time and energy needed to maintain my vintage synths.

It is a complete pain in the ass to keep some synths alive
(especially when you regularly play gigs with them, in pubs, like me! )

But some of my vintage machines really do work perfectly. (Yamaha CS-30, for instance)

And the newest most expensive piece of kit I ever bought, my Akai MPC4000, has the most shoddy bug-ridden piece of crap for its software I've seen since Melbourne House released "The Hobbit" for the ZX Spectrum.
Nearly 3 years gone by, and Akai still haven't delivered all the initially advertised features and ironed out all the bugs.

New doesn't not always equal trouble-free...

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

To some people Its a bit like having a real Rolex or a fake Rolex.
People may not know the difference but At the end of the day you know !!!

excellent post Synthacon !

I am one of the "silly persons" you're referring to and I went through the whole same questioning recently.

My only pieces of "vintage" equipement are relatively recent, they're a Juno 60 with its Kenton MIDI kit and an Oberheim Matrix 6r and its Access programmer.

as they are not used today as much as they were when I first got them, I was planning to sell them and get something with more character e.g. a memorymoog or a prophet or a chroma or something.

Then I realised I could get something newer, like an andromeda or a macbeth m5, or even cheaper, a VA like a virus... that would be less of a nightmare to maintain, yet would sound as good as the real thing. I've got a good monosynth that does this, it's a MacBeth M3X and I really love it. So my natural "next step" was to find something with the same "balls" but polyphonic.

Now I'm quite sure I'm going to go for a modern answer to my wishes rather than a vintage one, as I was made well aware of all the maintenance cost of vintage, all tha tin a real life case. let me explain:

A good friend of mine has this memorymoog at home, he's bought it for virtually nothing a few years ago: it was (and still is today) faulty and needed heavy servicing.

The problem is that we don't have good specialists here in Paris, to maintain such beauties.

The result : the synth's been lying in a corner of his studio unused for more than 4 years : ..

as for specialists here in Paris, I don't understand why we don't have more than a few here and there doing it on a DIY/amateur basis. no more professionals here in a city of more than 10 million people ! We used to have only one "back in the days", but with a very bad reputation (such as keeping your synth for a year and, in the end, coming with an answer such as : "sorry can't find the replacement parts mate, here's your synth, and oh by the way, the bill is 200 euros for my time spent on the machine").

So basically all my friend can can do now is :
1 - resell the synth
2 - learn electronics and DIY fixing...
3 - pay so dumb a**hole to keep it in his workshop during a year and ask money for that.

as a result my friend still has the memorymoog at home, still plans to get it fixed sooner or later...


But I've played a Jupiter 8 once and I cant quite find anything close in software as far as "emotion" is concerned.
as someone else said, the difference is like between a vintage car and a game on playstation.

...because there's no way I can get the kind or depth of sounds I can out of my Korg 800DV (for instance) that I can from any amounth of virtual synths! :-)

If I were an American person, I would probably now add 'Analogue rocks man!!!!!!"

Ben

analogue roxxx man!!!! i mean, dude, totally!

Quote AEP:

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analogue roxxx man!!!! i mean, dude, totally!

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*cue cheesey prog-rock synth solo*...


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Lawrence Eldridge - Obscuresounds

Just a tangent thats all.

Well it helps if you are a tech, the Mini Moog is cool in one respect as there is nothing in there that cannot be replaced or worked around. It does take most people a while to feel there way around and get a sound from one and of course every now and then you get, that sounds good, were do I save it

Ive turned down quite a few real nice synths because of worrying about reliablity.

Its just stupid the price of some gear, but if your lucky you`ll get a good unit and it'll stay working without any probs.
I recently bought a Emu EIII rack serial number 02,i was thinking about it for around a month until ,in the end the sound made my mind up for me,It just sounds so musical and warm campared to new stuff.Ive heard they go wrong every 5 mins but it seems to work perfectly for now,i also have access to a dead one for spares so that helped with the decision.

It helps if you have access to someone who knows there stuff for repairing instruments for you,luckily I do.
hopefully he will stay alive longer than my synths!!!.
sod how much it costs-just make music and love it.

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A gentleman is a man who can play "jump" on keyboards, but chooses not to

This issue has something to do with why I went for new modular gear - I guess also being something of a neophile I'm into "that sound" that you hear on old records, some gear and that you can't get from a lot of stuff,that has to do with the character of the top end - a kind of presence and character, but I want that plus the possibility of new sounds, with new prescision designs etc.

The point I'm trying to make is that for some people there is a quality to analogue sound generation thats invaluble, and right now you can have it in abundance from MOTM, Blacet, Wiard, Macbeth, doepfer (but sadly no longer oakley) etc, without fear of instant massive and crippling technician bills. I guess they won't have the character of a well aged mini, but character is there by the bucket load, and as we know - character is destiny.

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http://blokezero.com
myspace/blokezero

Yeah good post this. This is one of the main reasons why I chose an M5 over a 2600 or a Moog system - because it's brand new and I don't have to worry about its past life or whether or not it really has been "serviced" in the way the seller described.

As fine and inimitable as these synths are it's well worth bearing in mind that something is increasingly likely to go wrong with them the older they get. The only ones I would really consider are those with a proven service history, from the likes of James (ex Music Control), with their power supplies re-built and any dodgy components replaced.

I can understand the argument when you're talking about the top end of the scale, ie.

Quote AndyJones:

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This is one of the main reasons why I chose an M5 over a 2600 or a Moog system - because it's brand new and I don't have to worry about its past life or whether or not it really has been "serviced" in the way the seller described.

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but there are some fantastic but potentially unreliable synths and drum machines out there for next to nothing - i'm talking about the Ensoniq Mirages and Yamaha DX11s you see going on ebay for less than 50 smacker every day - i think the point is valid for the more expensive machines but so many vintage synths are ludicrously overpriced anyway.

Great thread, and many wise words.

As a vintage gear addict, I'm all too aware of the pitfalls, but the rewards are there sonically, especially if you like character (yes: tape loops knocking on Copicats, the chorus-like warble on my knackered Binson Echorec, tape compression/warmth, the sound of valves versus ss etc etc).

Finding a good techie is the key. I have a vintage Marshall Valve Combo that I fished out of a skip in the rain a decade ago. It sat in my house for seven years until I found the man to fix it- and boy was it worth waiting for...

Currently out of service in my studio for a variety of reasons- 1 OSCAR, 2 SH101s (bought another on Ebay recently- was working fine when I picked it up, died the day I got it home), my beloved TSR8 tape machine (£400 spent on reconditioning/servicing four years ago- can't find anyone to sort it now)....

It seems to be a common thread on these pages- maybe it's about time we started a SOS trusted techie thread and shared our knowledge of who to use (and who not). Dameo, if you'll share your techie with me (I'm in Nottingham- Sheffield's close enough), I can put you onto a great valve amp man. Anyone know a tape machine engineer in the midlands? Maybe I'll start this as a new thread.

Yes, vintage can be expensive; yes, new stuff can be more reliable (but not always- at least we expect vintage gear to go wrong, and it's prettier to look at when it's sitting unused in the studio!), but I prefer patching things together with cables- adding old stompboxes/amps into the signal chain and getting unexpected interactions between idiosyncratic and esoteric gear- far more than trying to program via an LCD screen or mouse. But then, I prefer the way most music sounded pre-digital; and post digital I'd always take acid house over psy-trance (or whatever it's called these days).

I still have my DX7 and it still sounds really good, in fact I have started using it again. If it is sampled into an MPC1000 and the internal processing used its an exceptional sound. Anyway the point of this post is, yes I'd rather have my Nord Lead 3 than a vintage synth but there is no contemporary equivalent of the DX7

I had an old monosynth once - Clef Microsynth I think it was. Not worth a dime but a very interesting and unique piece of kit. There were sounds I could coax from it that I have never since been able to replicate.

I also had an old Vox elctronic Piano. 5 octave fully poly (divide down synthesis) - dreadful sound for a piano - except the harpsichord that was uncannily like Lucy in the Skies - scarily so in fact.

In the 80's I had a Hohner Pianet. I got rid of it in favour of a Yamaha Csx computer - well ok the CsX was only 8 note poly but hey I only had 10 fingers! And think of the huge range of sounds I could get...

Now - I have searched and searched for a Hohner Pianet because that is the sound I need now. I want my Clef back and I want my Vox back too. But these things are probably gone forever once you make the decision to sell them.

In time you will realise that as quirky unreliable and frustrating as this old gear is - samples or modelling or a picture of one on the PC with interactive sliders simply does not replace the real thing.

Sell it at your great future regret.


...As this is a keyboard topic I won't mention the Hofner Verithin I PEx'd for a Boss pedal amongst many other faux pars.

Quote noiseconjecture:

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but there is no contemporary equivalent of the DX7

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What about the Native Instruments FM7? Comes pretty close, in sound terms anyway

Quote baward:

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Quote noiseconjecture:

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but there is no contemporary equivalent of the DX7

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What about the Native Instruments FM7? Comes pretty close, in sound terms anyway

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True, but what I meant is there is no hardware equivalent, like the Nord Leads are hardware, modelled versions of old analogue synths. There's the DX200 but I don't think that is made anymore (but don't know for sure).

Quote noiseconjecture:

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Quote baward:

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Quote noiseconjecture:

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but there is no contemporary equivalent of the DX7

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What about the Native Instruments FM7? Comes pretty close, in sound terms anyway

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True, but what I meant is there is no hardware equivalent, like the Nord Leads are hardware, modelled versions of old analogue synths. There's the DX200 but I don't think that is made anymore (but don't know for sure).

---

For roughly the same price as a new DX7 at launch, you can now buy a Nord Modular G2, which loads DX7 sounds (with a bit of messing about).

Obviously it also does quite a lot else...

Why?

'Cos you're never going to need to buy another one, when the next computer operating system comes out!


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Be cheerful - learn to deny the coffee!

Very good point!

I have loads of software that was top of the range when I bought it but if you don't keep upgrading it, you lose it.

So either way you are paying to maintain the gear. And modern gear is so complex now. I for one wouldn't like to open up a Korg Oasys in 5 years time because the filter isn't working properly.

I managed to get a Siel Cruise recently, quirky but not without charm. I am rather looking forward to a night in when my best mate (who is an electronics engineer) and I, can have a night in with a few beers pulling the Cruise to bits, fixing the tuning problem, cleaning the sliders and switches etc. I got a Hohner Pianet in the same week too. That was very easy to sort out, but still required a little confidence and reading up on what to do.

It's not rocket science - so what about a feature SOS?

What about a little step by step guide to basic vintage synth maintenence? Get some of the people here to donate their crackly SH101's and forgetful Jupiters for a few days whilst someone who knows what they are doing (Panic music is just up the road from you!) goes through and explains about changing the battery, cleaning sliders and switches and what sprays to use (and what not to do). Repairing broken bits etc.

Go-on! you'd save hundreds of SOS readers hundreds or even thousands of pounds in maintenance bills just by getting someone to give us all a master class in basic gear servicing.

That's a great idea, come on SOS, a series on repair and maintenance of vintage gear. Please!

Quote martin-randle:

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Go-on! you'd save hundreds of SOS readers hundreds or even thousands of pounds in maintenance bills just by getting someone to give us all a master class in basic gear servicing.

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Indeed! A good tutorial can take you up to a higher level of synth servicing than you might expect to be able to do, otherwise. Cleaning key contacts & grime behind inoperational buttons is simple enough for nearly anyone, with a screwdriver. Some online examples of tutorials, for the more soldering iron-friendly, among us, being the Fizmo voltage regulator, JD800 aftertouch & the Prophecy jack socket repair guides. When you have the 'helping hand' of a list of what to look at, & how to go about it, these things really aren't difficult to do, even for a near-novice!


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Be cheerful - learn to deny the coffee!

I think it'd be a no-win situation for SOS to run such a feature. There are just so many things that can fail in these beasts, you couldn't do the subject justice. And how much electronics knowledge do you assume people have? Troubleshooting audio circuits can be really frustrating, and the problems can range from obscure intermittent chip performance changes, to a dry joint on the output jack...

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Yes that's tue and worth mentioning with hints on how to locate what the problem is, but the majority of problems really are caused by crackling pots, dirty connectors, old batteries etc. And that's what the artical could focus on.

Obviously SOS would include a disclaimer - "do this at your own risk"! but it would still make a great article and a damn site more useful to people like us than hints on how to organise your 32gigabytes of VST plugins into handy banks.

Yes, the vintage synths have their distinct characteristics, and to the ear of musicians working in the studio they are clearly worth it, but to be honest, I spend far more time playing in clubs and pubs and my physiotherapy savings alone make the change over to a Triton extreme, with a 2 unit rack housing a virus and an FS1R simply brilliant. Not to mention that I was able to buy this gear for less than I sold my Juno 106, SH101, K5000S and Boss Dr550 for.

And with regards to gigging...

1. I have NEVER, NOT EVER had a complaint from a punter about the warmth or character of my sounds (plenty about crap playing and crap songs over the years though )and

2. Has anyone here ever used an inhouse PA that produces the clarity of sound to appreciate classic gear? I know I sure as heck have not.

And to be perfectly honest, when we record, the sound of these instruments come across pretty good anyway in the mix.

Quote jacqueslacouth:

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And with regards to gigging...

1. I have NEVER, NOT EVER had a complaint from a punter about the warmth or character of my sounds

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That would be a first if someone came up and said "sorry, I couldn't enjoy that song you just played because you were using the software Audio Realism Bassline, not a real 303".

A good point and very logical, but lets take another analogy.

You might be perfectly happy with a Ford Mondeo. A reliable practical and fairly modern car.

Some people have to have the very latest showroom model, which is great if you can afford it.

And then there are those enthiusiasts who love their old clunky heavy and hugely expensive to maintain, XJS. I had one... I still dream of the sound it made and the smell of leather. I now drive a Yaris. A fraction of the running costs, loads more boot space, no repair bills! No magic though!

Same with guitars, the nicest guitar I ever owned was a Hofner Verithin 1959 model. Frets were worn, it was really limited in what it could do and a real clunky old guitar. But it was beautiful, in ways I can't just explain. I adored it and only stupidity and a desire for simpler more modern things made me get rid of it.

I now have a Variax. Technically the best guitar I've ever owned. Any sound I want - it's there. Noise free, versatile looks good and plays magnificently. But it doesn't have the magic.

If you understand what I mean about "the magic" then you'll understand why people lug genuine Hammonds and Rhodes around. Why they maintain those old minimoogs and arps. Its not about the audience, its about your personal love affair with musical instruments. If you don't feel "the magic" you'll never understand and that's fine.

Amen, brother.

A very fine analogy: the magic's where it's at. Just spent an evening coaxing the right noises out of a dilapidated analogue string synth coupled with two guitar effects pedals- not a set-up you'd drive to the supermarket in, but lovely for a sunny sunday!

PS Sorry about your Hofner - a lovely instrument...

Along the magic line there are people making magic synths now. There is a certain magic in the virus (though somewhat played out!), and for some in the Nord, and plenty of magic in some of the modern modular stuff, and then there is always Dave Smith - the evolver has some faerie dust in it, and not from bolivia either.

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