I thought it would be useful to have a thread that would help folk who are building studios & other acoustic projects find good cheap sources of materials.

Here is a good supplier of neoprene.

James Dolman
01924 445577
Unit 10, Rouse mill, rouse mill lane, Batley, WF17 5QB. UK.
The chap who dealt with me was called Simon.

I guess these people must supply the regular acoustic dealers as they are about 50% cheaper than them.
Anyone else got any money saving tips?
Cheers

Quote:

---

Anyone else got any money saving tips?

---

Yep. Don't spend it!!!


hehe

but seriously......


AVOID

StudioSpares
Wickes ( and any 'family' DIY place )
Proprietary Exotic soundproofing materials. They cost the earth.


Soundproofing:

Plasterboard, Timber and Rockwool are all that's really needed for good soundproofing for the vast majority of applications. These materials are really cheap ( when you don't buy then from the places listed above ) as they are used in millions of homes and bildings across the world, and benefit from economy of scale.

Expensive vinyl mats, etc may give soem improvement, but nothing an extra layer of plasterboard wont' give you. The price difference is enormous. Plasterboard can be had for around £2/m2 if you shop around.

Acoustic Treatment:

Rockwool, Timber, Velcro and Cloth, are ALL common materials used in general construction, and again benefit from economy of scale. Again do not buy from studio suppliers, TOO expensive.


Buy your Plasterboard, Timber, Rockwool, etc,etc from Building Suppliers like Travis Perkins. The price will be as little as HALF the prices of the AVOID places I've listed above. And Studiospares rockwool is such a rip off, it's more than retail.

Buy your screws from [url]www.screwfix.com MUCH MUCH cheaper than Wickes/Homebase/B&Q OR buiding suppliers



The basics of DIY Studio Design is Materials are CHEAP, and the performance comes from GOOD DESIGN.


And talking of design, here's another money saving tip...

DON'T SPEND ON UNNECESSARY TREATMENTS.

To do this design a balanced system. In other words, it's no good having a billion layers of plasterboard on your walls and ceiling, if your doors and windows have crap Isolation. And vice versa of course.

Don't bother with a floating floor unless a] you have HIGH Isolation requirements, and b] you CALCULATE IT PROPERLY to get a LOW resonant frequency. Don't just bung some 1/4" thick strips of neoprene under some joists and boards, and hope for the best. you'll very likely be spending mooney on something that could easily make things worse in both your Isolation performance AND the acoustics of the room.

Floating FLoors are the MOST Misunderstood part of DIY studio Building. And in true internet fashion there's a lot of blind leading the blind.


Good post RadioKing! The thread should be made a sticky. There seems to be a lot of people here paying way too much for stuff.


Paul

--------------------
Pauls Studio Build Diary at http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=1

Got the computer network up and running for a few minutes today and managed to drop in here in passing. I agree that this thread warrants stickiness and sticky it now is

Thanks for all the useful info Paul and RadioKing; if anyone else has anything useful please feel free to add it.

0VU

hi

im currently looking into soundproofing my first dedicated project studio room.

likewise theres no way im going to studio specialists as its way overpriced, so ive been sourcing some materials myself...

ive found the following links so far on UK suppliers
http://www.rwsdrylining.co.uk/shop.htm
http://www.soundsolutionltd.co.uk/solutions.htm

im also talking to a fibreglass company
http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/
they said they have something called Nidaplast Acoustic
£12.40 for 4ft x 4ft. all i know is that its some kind of honeycomb structure, but there going to send me some spec sheets.

whatever material i buy, im basically thinking i'll cover the walls, probably the ceiling and floors too, and then make some kind of bass traps in the 4 corners. it probably wont be the greatest in the world, but it should be better than my old technique of hanging up lots of duvets/curtains... and it will be fairly cheap.

if anybody knows anything about the companies or materials ive listed above, or have any advise or comments please let me know

james

Quote James Walker-Hall:

---

hi

im currently looking into soundproofing my first dedicated project studio room.

likewise theres no way im going to studio specialists as its way overpriced, so ive been sourcing some materials myself...

ive found the following links so far on UK suppliers
http://www.rwsdrylining.co.uk/shop.htm
http://www.soundsolutionltd.co.uk/solutions.htm

---

greetings James

you're going through the same thing as I did a long time ago when getting into this.

i.e looking for soundproofing specific materials.

For soundproofing you need MASS and preferably 2 masses with ONE airgap inbetween. I've found with experience the most COST EFFECTIVE means of providing mass, is standard 12.5mm thickness bogstanded housebashing Plasterboard. Simply by economy of scale it can be had for less than £2/m2.

The 'Soundblock' plasterboard is 833kg/m3, v. 660kg/m3 for standard plasterboard. =>26% Denser.

However it is nearly 300% more expensive!!!

Same goes for massloaded sheets at a zillion shekels per m2. You gotta wiegh up the benefits against simply adding another layer of standard plasterboard.

Quote:

---

im also talking to a fibreglass company
http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/
they said they have something called Nidaplast Acoustic
£12.40 for 4ft x 4ft. all i know is that its some kind of honeycomb structure, but there going to send me some spec sheets.

whatever material i buy, im basically thinking i'll cover the walls, probably the ceiling and floors too, and then make some kind of bass traps in the 4 corners. it probably wont be the greatest in the world, but it should be better than my old technique of hanging up lots of duvets/curtains... and it will be fairly cheap.

if anybody knows anything about the companies or materials ive listed above, or have any advise or comments please let me know

james

---

Same principle goes for absorption materials too. Standard mineral wool slabs are used for thermal insulation in millions of constructions across the world. The market is FAR greater than the acoustics/studio market. hence the products are a LOT cheaper.

50mm thick 45kg/m3 rockwool is available for around £3/m3. That Nidaplat stuff is £8.39/m2

My advice is don't be rash, and learn a bit more about things before commiting a design. There's plenty of people about that will gladly help ya!


Paul

p.s The more expensive materials are used more often in commercial constructions where the materials only account for a SMALL portion of the total budget. So triple the price of your absorption, for example, could only add, maybe 1% to the total budget.

However, with DIY projects, where you're doing your own project management, design, labour and testing,etc,etc, the materials are usually 100% of the budget, and therefore using cost efficient materials can cut your budget in HALF, or even more!!! Which in a lot of cases, is the price of a decent synth, decent mike, or even a great set of monitors!

p.p.s there isn't one

--------------------
Pauls Studio Build Diary at http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=1

I agree with Paul, that stuff is much too expensive.
Back on topic, here is another good place for supplies in N/E london.
Chambers Timber
70 Leyton Road, London, E15 1DG
Telephone: 02085346318
Absolutely the cheapest timber I have come across (2" x 2" is 46p per Metre)
They do sell loads of other stuff so its worth checking them out if you are Local.
Cheers

True it is that you won't need expensive materials to do something good, as long as you avoid putting eggboxes everywhere on your walls As for my room, it's about 10 cm of rockwhool covered by plaster (was cheap and easy to set, although I reckon something else than plaster might have been welcomed). But I'm looking for an info: I'd like to cover one or three of my walls (depending of one solving my problem or not) with the kind of "diamond mousse"(it's a french-english word, since I don't know the real english word) that you can find in flightcases). What is it called? In what kind of shop can I buy pannels of that? If anyone knows...

Thanks

Laurent

Laurent: Ici on dit: "franglais" (!)

mousse = foam

what you are describing as diamond mousse is pyramid foam sheeting in V.A.

Mind you the effect of the usual thinnish foam sheeting is not that good in terms of cost/effect, but the specialist products are way too dear. I am looking at building membrane bass traps as described on Ethan Winer`s useful site..

a bientot!

Ivan

Although we sell (at retail prices I hasten to add) Auralex products, we have a fully fledged studio and demo environment here, we have seen some extortionate pricing for sound proofing materials. SOME professional materials are pretty essential, but not that many, you can make most of the things you need and just make sure you use good heavy materials, don't skimp on 8 or 9mm plasterboard, use 12.5 or thicker (if you can get it) boards and lay your first layer then your next layer the opposing way, tape and seal EVERY edge. We also highly recommend using the U-Boats by Auralex, they aint too cheap, they aint too expensive, and they do work wonders.

If you really do want to get your space sorted get a couple of books by F Alton Everest, the guy is a master of doing things on a budget!

DO use good quality, DON'T use eggboxes or similar.

As a last point, we get trade discount on most building materials, and we have found through trial and error that B&Q is often as cheap if not cheaper than many builders yards. Having said that we also know of at least 3 builders yards that have public prices at least 3-400% more expensive than their trade prices....shop around..caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

the http://www.homedepot.com/ website has a drywall calculator! just click on the KNOW-HOW menu at the top and then click on calculators!

it even tells you how many screws you need... also has an insulation calculator...

fun stuff!

-gerard

Been finding it difficult to get decent info on floor isolation.Until now.The posts from Paul have been refreshingly frank and to the point.Having browsed most of the forums I have been frustrated by the advice on offer.Often contradictory,sometimes incorrect and most irritating of all vague.I have hired 2 acoustic experts here in Scotland for a new rehearsal room complex and found it just as difficult to get an opinion as to the best methods for soundproofing.I have finally had my building warrant/planning approved and will begin construction in 2 weeks.I will build 6 seperate rooms using the room in a room method. Outer leaf 200mm dense block with 13mm render.Inner leaf 2 layers of 12mm plasterboard on 4x2 studs floated on seperate 6 inch concrete floors atop subsoil.
Ceilings will be mounted on block and inner stud wall.
Question. I am loathe to float the concrete floors on joists with neoprene pucks.Given that my inner walls will be built off the floor I think it would be far too difficult to calculate the correct puck spacings etc.I have decided to float the floors with Rockwool as my resilient layer.
Will this give me enough Low end isolation between rooms?
Would adding another 2 inch screed on top of the concrete with another resilient layer between help.I realise an air gap is important for kick drum/bass isolation but find the complexities of the construction daunting.Thank you again P.W for most informative forum on the net.

If anyone is in the Southern California area, and is in need of OC 703 or 705, Scottdru gave me a referral to this company:

Southwestern Insulation
12851 Nelson Street
Garden Grove, CA 92460

Phone:(714) 530-2980
Fax: (714) 530-6011

They will usually deliver it to you for free if you are local and their prices are pretty good. They generally have to order the Owens Corning products, but they stock the Knauff equivalent of the 703 and 705. Hope this helps. Ask for Angel, she was very helpful.

--------------------
Christian G
Mesa Boogie Amps for Sale

I think the best place to get acoustic foam from is price busters on the net.They sell auralex foam for loads cheaper.For instance,the venus bass traps which are normally £160 each or £320 a pair are £250 a pair from them.Thats £125 each,which is about £35 cheaper.When you buy quite a bit of foam from them it works out I suppose anything upto £250-£300 cheaper.

pricebuster.org.uk/

I got my hands on a bounch of closed cell foam from a company that I worked for the closed it's doors and I'm in the process of completing our new jam room check it out and let me know what you think and I can still get cases of this stuff 1.5 cases did this room

Always hagle with Travis Perkins, there prices are way to high and they know it!

When I built the extension last summer, I was able to get certian materials at 1/2 list price.

A simple ''nah thats to much, surly you can go lower'' normally does it.

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

Edited by Pirate Giant with Laser Eyes (PGWLE) (08/06/05 05:50 PM)

Thank you People
I am 3 weeks away from starting my build and was days away from ordering £1600 worth of 'specialist' materials, as this was making me feel slightly uncomfortable I thought hang on, SOS have a forum, wonder if anybody knows if this stuff actually works. And here you are, advice from people who don't want to sell me anything. Thank you, thank you thank you, I love you all ( in a purely platonic sense of course)

Can anyone suggest a good place in or near London to buy thick, dense concrete blocks? I'm looking for the 190mm thick, maximum density ones. Wickes and Jewsons only seem to sell the standard 100mm thick ones for cavity walls.

I found some wholesalers on the net that have the full range but they only seem to sell to building suppliers. So someone somewhere must have these blocks to sell to the public!

No-one?

I hope you find somewhere but I think your best bet is just to get TP, Jewsons or whoever to order them in for you. I don;t know the suppliers in London. Good luck.

btw I say this because often the main suppliers aren't geared up for delivering less than very large loads which they'll normally be supplying direct to the likes of TP who have the small trucks to transport it to you. Have you a truck ? Potentially there is some serious wieght to move.

As well it would be much easier if they were able to offload the pallets with a small crane lrather than you have to break open the pallet and personally handball them to where ever they'll be stored until use. These kinds of things are worse considering at this stage, the logistics of it all. Best wishes.

Edited by phantomfield (03/10/05 10:23 AM)

did anyone used AcoustiPro products? I had a very good impression, but my knowledge is minimal on the subject.
cheers.
Shay.

i will say this straight off(and i hope its ok for me to mention it), i have an interest in this product as i(meaning my company) will be importing it

GreenGlue - www.audioalloy.com it looks very impressive, we will be testing it ourselves when it arrives here, i hope it does what i says on the tin. Supposed to be very good for low frequencies...

--------------------
www.rpgeurope.com
*all comments and posts are my own, and nothing to do with RPG....*

In the States, we have a material called Owen's Corning 703. Many of you may have heard of this or may have seen articles written about it elsewhere on the net. This is mashed rigid insulation that typically comes in 48x24x4 inch panels.

My question is: Is this or something very similar available in the UK and other places outside the USA?

Please, if you have information on this, respond.

Many thanks gents and gals!


~ J

--------------------
http://www.readyacoustics.com
Joel DuBay Sr

Quote powerjoe:

---

In the States, we have a material called Owen's Corning 703. Many of you may have heard of this or may have seen articles written about it elsewhere on the net. This is mashed rigid insulation that typically comes in 48x24x4 inch panels.

My question is: Is this or something very similar available in the UK and other places outside the USA?

Please, if you have information on this, respond.

Many thanks gents and gals!


~ J

---

We import 6lb.ft density, which i think might be 705? we do that as the stuff in this country doesnt come in big enough sheets for our purposes, the 25mm we used to use years ago wasnt consistant enough. I dont know what alternatives there are though

--------------------
www.rpgeurope.com
*all comments and posts are my own, and nothing to do with RPG....*

Ah!


Do you know the dimmensions of those sheets of 705?


Cheers,

Joel

--------------------
http://www.readyacoustics.com
Joel DuBay Sr

The stuff we used to buy were small, only 1.5m i think, but i dont know if they are still avialable, i will find out for you, the sheets we import are 2.4 or 3.0m long but i dont know if they are available for sale, again i will find out and get back to you

--------------------
www.rpgeurope.com
*all comments and posts are my own, and nothing to do with RPG....*

Quote Joel DuBay:

---

In the States, we have a material called Owen's Corning 703. Many of you may have heard of this or may have seen articles written about it elsewhere on the net. This is mashed rigid insulation that typically comes in 48x24x4 inch panels.

My question is: Is this or something very similar available in the UK and other places outside the USA?

Please, if you have information on this, respond.

Many thanks gents and gals!


~ J

---

Rocksil RS45/Rockwool RWA45 - 45kg/m3 and..

Rocksil RS60/Rockwool RW3 - 60 kg/m3 are...

The rough equivelents or 703 and 705.

OC703/705 is glasswool ( glassfibre ), while rocksil and rockwool are mineral wool.

Either works great. If you specifically fancy glass fibre then a company called Isover sels in EU/UK

--------------------
Pauls Studio Build Diary at http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=1

Paul, thank you very much.

This is great information for those who want a DIY solution for their acoustic space.

Many thanks again,

--------------------
http://www.readyacoustics.com
Joel DuBay Sr

hi, i've just joined this forum after searching the internet for some sound proffing advice. Here's a few tips for anyone wanting to build stud (partition) walls for their studio. (i'm a shopfitter by trade)

materials

As someone has said, use a builders merchant for your materials. Buy your screws by the box (much cheaper). for stud partitions, The minimum size timber you should be using is 75mm x 50 mm (3"x2"). Plaster board comes in various sizes, mostly for ease of handling. i.e to let the DIYers get it in their cars from the DIY sheds. a Standerd size sheet is 2400mm x 1200mm. they come in square edges for plastering and tapered egdes for drylining. the drylining method entails fixing the boards with 40mm gyproc screws and filling the screw holes and the egdes of the board with gyproc easi-fill. This can be done to a reasonable finish by anyone with time and a bit of DIY knowlege

construction

a stud wall consists of a head, a sole and legs. the legs are fixed with 3" nails through the head and the sole at 400mm centres. however, and heres a trade secret for you, make the distance betwen your first and second stud 375mm this will ensure your boards finish in the centre of the a stud, enabling your next board to fix onto it. when measuring your legs, measure both ends of the room along the lenght of the wall in case the floor and ceiling is running out of level and allow about a quarter of an inch gap clearence. Mark your centres on your head and sole and then nail the legs. once nailed, nail a row of noggins through the centre, this adds stability. lift the wall up into place and fix it top and bottom every 3 ft (900mm). Once it's fixed you may need to add further noggins to attach socket boxes, switches etc. It can then be boarded either with square egded or tapered boards. If your going to give it a double skin of boards, rememebr to stagger the joints. i.e if your first board it 1200mm make the first board of your second skin 0r 900. fix the boards with gyproc screws, easier than nailing, 40mms for single skin, your second skin will need at least 50mms. If your going to insulate it with cosy wrap, (sorry slang name for rockwool) board one side first. It might seem obvious but i did have one of my apprentices ring me and say "i can't get the cosy wrap to stay in the wall". cosy wrap is 400mm wide so should fit between your studs quite nicely. If your room is higher than 2.400mm you will also need a row of noggins 2.400 mm high to catch your next row of boards.

ps the method i have described assumes you have enough room to build your wall on the floor and lift it into place. if it has to be built in situ, simply fastenign your head and your sole to the ceiling and the floor and fix your legs individually.

Quote Paul Woodlock:

---

Rocksil RS45/Rockwool RWA45 - 45kg/m3 and..

Rocksil RS60/Rockwool RW3 - 60 kg/m3 are...

The rough equivelents or 703 and 705.

---

I'm slightly confused here. Mattrpg says the 705 is 6 lb/cu ft. If you bear with my maths for a moment -

1 metre = c.39" so 1 m3 = 59319 cu ins.
1 cu ft = 1728 cu ins
So 1 m3 = 34.21 cu ft.

1 kg is about 2.2 lbs
So 60 kg/m3 is 132 lbs

132 divided by 34.21 equals 3.85 lbs/cu ft.

Roughly speaking, you would need to go up to 100kg/m3 to get to (a little over) 6 lbs/cu ft. I'm happy to be challenged on my maths here!

Otherwise, from the point of view of comparing US and UK brands, is it in fact fair to say RS60 is broadly equivalent to 705?

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

There is a start kit from a swedish company, that has been sold to a lot of swedish home studios.

http://www.akustikmiljo.se/public/dokument.php?art=330&parent01=198&parent 02=248&level2_4=true

...... amazing.

Just read through this list and it thoroughly astounds me that after all this time, and after looking at what some of you do , that many still do not comprehend the vast distinction between soundproofing and acoustic treatment. How helpful exactly is that for the novice's that frequent here when even some of the "recording professionals" dont know? Auralex foam to soundproof ? COME ON PEOPLE.....

--------------------
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

ooooh. that sounds a little tesre on read back. Apologies for any offence or misreadings....

--------------------
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....

now then everyone...thanks for the great advice i've found here...been of great help!!!

just a quick line...just had the quote back from Travis Perkins for my 60mm, 60kg/m3 rockwool type slab and, for 100 square metres they reckon £500 give or take a few pennies.... is that good or bad?

any ideas?

Assuming the RS-60 price is inc vat, that's pretty cool.

otherwise try these guys who supply 2.4m2 packs (50mm or 100mm thick) about £16 inc vat. I'm sure they'd do discount on 40+ packs.

http://www.minster-ins.co.uk/

we treated our practice room with acoustic foam and it made a big difference, we were given a contact by a guy we know who recently refurbed his studio in manchester
heres their site

www.acoustic-foam.co.uk

and not bad prices compared with some

--------------------
www.acoustic-foam.co.uk

I have seen some stuff advertised as good for reducing noise from computer cases (www.mutemat.co.uk) Has anyone tried it for other noise absorbing areas as all that I seem to see else where is Foam?

big difference? what is that in terms of acoustics - reverbertion time reduction?
acoustic foam will only control reverberation and will not be effective at soundproofing unless you are only looking for a nominal reduction in transmitted noise - less than 3 dB which is unlikely.

tried emailing and asking acoustic-foam for low frequency data a couple of times but no joy.

the low frequncy performance is very poor and there is no data from any of the configurations.

can anyone help?

Has anybody used this material as a replacement for plasterboard or had any experience of it?

www.fermacell.co.uk/

--------------------
Never mind

Large Foam 'panel', neatly pre-contained in a cotton cover - for £15

call me 'out there' but could THIS have some acoustic potential? - maybe as the front of a large framed bass trap with rockwool behind?

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/damntightproductions

It depends entirely on whether it contains open cell or closed cell foam. Here's a good description of the difference:

www.foam-tech.com/products/urethane_foam/open_closed_cell.htm

Open cell foam is ideal for acoustics, because air can enter it and be absorbed, but closed cell is useless. Sofas commonly use both open cell foam (for softness and comfort) or closed cell foam (firmer and more resilient). Beds commonly use closed cell foam because it provides more support. I suspect in this application the fact that open cell foam can absorb liquids would also work against it.

So, I suspect an Ikea mattress of that size would use closed cell foam, and therefore be useless for acoustic purposes. On the other hand, perhaps a smaller baby mattress would use softer open cell foam.

You'd have to ask Ikea or try blowing through the mattress to see which it is for certain though


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

Quote Costleys:

---

Has anybody used this material as a replacement for plasterboard or had any experience of it?

www.fermacell.co.uk/

---

I have planned to use just this material in my floor, on top of a few other layers, as base for final, hardwood flooring. It's supposed to have more mass as well as more stifness than plasterboard. As I said: still have to start works, can't comment on it yet, but I did choose it after carefully comparing specs v/s plasterboard.

--------------------
Ever met a musically inclined accountant?

Hi Paul,

I can't say I agree with everything you say in your post.

The first point is about exotic soundproofing materials like vinyl mats. If you've ever tried to lift one of those mats you realise how extremely dense and heavy they are (usually 5kg/m2), much more so than plasterboard. Yes you probably could get the same soundproofing with 2 or 3 layers of 12.5mm plasterboard as with one vinyl mat but that would be 25mm thickness as opposed to 5mm. That's might be a really important consideration for some. Two or three sheets of plasterboard probably will not work out much less in terms of cost than one sheet of the vinyl anyway. The vinyl mats are around £5-6/m2 so two or three sheets of plasterboard, even at £2/m2 (which is a good price) ain't that much cheaper. I'd rather go down the exotic route and pay the same or a little extra to have the thinner wall.

To be fair I've found with the specialist suppliers that they are prepared to price match if you can show them, for instance, the acoustic sealant price on screwfix or the RS60 price from other suppliers.

The second assumption I would question is that it can all be done with rockwool, timber and plasterboard. For real bass absorption (i.e. if you don't want to hear your drums on the other side of the wall) you will need to go down the isolation / resilient bars route. Try asking a builders merchant for resilient bars.

Apart from that I found some good food for thought in your post and I would be interested to know what it is about studiospares that should be avoided - is it their acoustic treatment materials (which seem a bargain compared to auralex) ?

Quote:

---

For real bass absorption (i.e. if you don't want to hear your drums on the other side of the wall)

---

I'm afraid that is NOT what is meant by creating bass/broadband absorbers. These types of absorbers are meant to absorb sound so that decay times and levels are even and low (i.e. no modal ring, etc.). They are NOT intended as sound isolation. Acoustic treatment DOES NOT mean sound isolation.

P-X

--------------------
My Home Studio Build Thread

studiospares being avoided?

Their acoustic treatment is actually more absorbent that the auralex equivalent, being more dense and thicker (i.e the 50mm stuff starts at about minimum thickness 25 mm and raises to over the 50mm/ 50mm is the average, auralex peak at 50 and go down to about 5mm) They are also miles cheaper and at 50 x 50cm they are easier to arrange on the walls.

their rock wool is not over retail at 35 quid for 8 slabs of rw3, and has came down in price over the past year or so, remember the stuff from wickes etc.. is a lot less dense.

their own brand sheetblock works out a whole load cheaper too.

I've found over the years the studio spares guys to be really helpful and if your getting a load of stuff from them you a get a bulk buy discount.

Quote Wurlitzer:

---

Can anyone suggest a good place in or near London to buy thick, dense concrete blocks? I'm looking for the 190mm thick, maximum density ones. Wickes and Jewsons only seem to sell the standard 100mm thick ones for cavity walls.

I found some wholesalers on the net that have the full range but they only seem to sell to building suppliers. So someone somewhere must have these blocks to sell to the public!

---

Look up j p morans, they are in willesden & kilburn and will deliver, usually very well priced.

also travis perkins i would avoid like the plague, Bulders depot is very cheap too (in cricklewood), same bloke that created castles and then sold out to travis perkins.

I used to do Loft conversions in and around london and these were some of the cheapest places that we sourced materials, That was 2 years ago though.screwfix for a lot of other stuff like screws nails, and cheap tools the ebaurer screw guns seems to last longer that the dewalt ones we had.

Yes I'm fully aware - as are most people on this thread - that acoustic treatment is not the same as sound absorbtion.

Isolation or 'resilient' bars are there so that structural vibration caused by low frequences do not travel from the inside wall to the outside wall. This means that low frequency sounds like a kick drum are better soundproofed.

G'day everyone,

I've been trying to find a source for Rockwool slab in Australia and finally had some success, so I thought I'd share it just in case there are other Aussies interested.

FM Insulation in Sydney have a good range, and the boss there Mike Flavell is very helpful.

In Perth (where I am), Australian Insulation Supplies in Jandakot is the place. Their boss Ian Swann is also very helpful.

Mike Flavell said it also should be available from CSR Bradford in all capital cities, but they have been too busy so far to respond to my enquiries.

Anyway, I've been down to AIS and picked up two packs of 100kg/m3 at $90 each. Packs are 1200x600mm and contain 6 slabs of 50mm or 12 slabs of 25mm.

Now all I have to do is brush up on my pathetic woodworking skills

Cheers,
Marty.

--------------------
Bampot Studio,
Bassendean, WA.

Edited by Marty Bampot (09/08/06 07:59 AM)

G'day everyone,

I made that last post a few hours too early. I have now had a reply from CSR Bradford. They have rockwool slab available in 60, 80 & 100 kg/m3 densities and 25mm & 50mm thicknesses, but their sizings are 1500x1200 which may be more useful in some instances. They tell me that theirs is the only Australian-made rockwool. The price per sq.m area is comparable to the other companies 1200x600 slab.

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Bampot Studio,
Bassendean, WA.

Does anyone know where to get acoustic doors seals and neoprene strip? I tried James Dolman but they do not do them. I also tried Custom Audio Design and they quoted £144 to fit out one door and frame. This seems a bit steep tp me but don't really have anything to compare.

I live in Somerset but anywhere in the country would be good.

Cheers, Bluey

Just going back to Martin Walker's post on open & closed foam.
I'm trying to build some acoustic treatment panels (to stop high & mid freq reflection) and bass traps and have got my hands on around 2 cubic metres of packing foam which I'm assuming is 'open'. Each panel is around 50cm square and about 4cm thick - is this ideal or should I be looking at branded stuff like auralex?

Also - is the expanding foam gap filler you get in cans any good for acoustic treatment? Been doing some DIY with it and it sprang to mind for filling bass traps.

No material is ideal when you have no real idea of its acoustic properties

However, try temporarily piling it all up in a corner of your room to see if it makes an audible difference - if it does then it's worth pursuing the idea.

I very much doubt that expanding foam filler will be of use acoustically, since it's generally used as a gap filler and to solve draught problems - this means it's definitely not open cell, and so it won't provide absorption.

Sorry!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

One trick I've used a lot is to buy 'painters dust sheets' from DIY superstores: they're very big (10' square at least) and usually made of raw cotton. I used to find linen ones but haven't seen them for a while. The material is acoustically transparent and ideal for stretching over frames filled with rockwool etc. My current studio has some moveable absorbing/reflecting panels made from thick plywood; one side plain, the other covered with fibreglass and then these sheets stretched over and stapled. They do sometimes have seams though, where strips have been joined, but it's a lot easier than using a sewing machine.

Hi

First time here, bumping this thread, and strictly speaking this isn't music related but I would really appreciate some good advice.

I have a first floor flat and under my bedroom is someone's living room, through which I can hear all their conversations and TV noise. The bedroom is about 17m2, with a timber floor. There is already some kind of acoustic mineral wool in between the joists but frankly it 'aint working. I've considered a couple of options: 1) Seal the floorboard gaps with acoustic mastic, put down an acoustic membrane, then something like Quiet Floor, then the carpet. 2) Overboard the floor with some plywood, put some Green Glue on, then another layer of ply, then the carpet.

I don't think I can put down plasterboard or a floating floor as I don't think the floor/ceiling below will support it. Also, my budget is not unlimited, which is why I'm shying away from Quiet Floor and that kind of stuff. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm based in North Yorks and I'd also like to know of any good suppliers round here.

hi dear people I am in a panic rush so please excuse me if i might be asking in the right place but i hope i am ...

i am about to do up my studio now the walls of my room are made of 9 inch lime stone but still need to break the sound from next room and the dear neighbor so anyway i am using 30 mm rockwool with 2.5 inch wooden studs now i had the idea of fixing this 2cms rubber foam in between the stud and the wall so that sound absorbed by the plaster board on to the stud will not leek to the wall i already fixed one stud and it looks fine of coarse i have tighten it a bit so the size of the rubber foam and squashed a bit if you know what i mean .. now the BIG question is what guarantee do i have of how long the rubber foam lasts i am worried that it will disintegrate and of coarse the studs fixed to the wall will loosen up and the room starts to fall apart lol i hope i explained my self clearly and i really do hope that i can get some help the weekend is coming up and i really wish to get on with the work

thanks and i wish you all a great weekend
greetings from Malta

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www.myspace.com/aldolombardi

Edited by Comino (16/11/07 06:05 PM)

I'm about to build some absorption panels similar to ones built by Paul W in http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul06/articles/studiosos_0706.htm
Is there any functional difference between Auralex wedgies and Sonomatt acoustic panels (both 2" thick) for facing the rocksilk panels with?

Another question: should I treat the rocksilk face at the back with something to seal it, and if so, with what? I read that PVA glue diluted with water about 20 times and sprayed on works well, but would welcome suggestions/comments.

Picking up on the open / closed foam thing, and the the suggestion of sealing rockwool/rock silk, either by wrapping in polyester batting, or spraying with diluted PVA - won't this then decrease absorption by reflecting sound, and thus defeat the whole object?

Apprently not. I have not used the PVA technique but I know there are quite a few fans of it around here. The PVA is watered down a lot, and the idea is to give a light mist rather than saturate the Rockwool. Remember that Rockwool is bonded with some kind of glue solution during manufacturing anyhow - that's what makes it semi-rigid and stops it from collapsing. The additional PVA solution just gives a bit more help in preventing the fibres from escaping into the room.

With regard cloth, so long as it is breathable it should be fine - hold it up to your mouth and see if you can breathe (if you can't - don't hold it there for too long!).

I think if either of these do reflect HFs it would only be right at the top of the spectrum where most of us have buggered our hearing up enough not to notice anyhow!

I'm no expert on acoustics though, so if I have said anything wrong than plaese someone correct me.

Cheers

Max

Hi

I'm about to rent a room for my project studio which I will need to soundproof. My issue is I would like to be able to install in such a way that I can bring any material with me when I move on. I've come across this material'sound stopper panels' in studiospares which they claim can simply be fixed to the wall (screwed?):

http://studiospares.com/pd_465000_SOUND%20STOPPER%20ACOUSTIC%20PANEL%202m% 20x%2012m%20x%2014mm.htm

does anyone have experience with these, and indeed will I be better off using the traditional methods and not wasting my money?

many thanks!

Simon

www.freefarm.co.uk

Hi everybody,

this topic is very useful ! Thank you. This is my contribution: take a look at mixexperience.co.uk

Enjoy !

Just so people know, Rocksilk can be bought in densities from 33-200kg/m3. Here's a link to a Rocksilk data sheet from a company based in the UK:

http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/PDF/Datasheet%20-%20Rocksilk%20Universal% 20Slab%20Feb%2007%20RD86107.pdf

Hi guys.

Does anyone know of any Rockwool or Rocksil sellers in the Hampshire area? I'm looking for 1000x600x100 slabs of rwa45 or rs45. I spent an age looking and asking around diy stores with no luck. Local Travis Perkins branches told me they wouldn't be stocking it anymore and i'd have to go to the Oxford branch!!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Kiz.

In a word, No.

But when you say DIY stores what exactly do you mean? I had a lot more luck in my area at Builder's Merchants, so if you havent tried them then best get the yellow pages out! Do you have a Jewson neaby: my local branch was able to get hold of it. How about something like Sheffield Insulation - or other insulation firms, etc.

God luck mate

Max

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http://www.myspace.com/mindkilleruk

Cheers buddy!

Yep, I meant builders merchants. Have to say, I found them very unhelpful in my area. The Sheffield Insulations company looks a good bet though.

Cheers again for the reply,

Kieran.

No problem mate.

Sheffield Insulation are pretty cheap as well from what I remember. You'll have to check they definitely do Rockwool. I actually got Rocksil from them - it's more or less the same thing but you can get it in 1200x600 which suited me much better than the 1000x600.

Remember to haggle though as the prices are pretty damn negotiable!

Max

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http://www.myspace.com/mindkilleruk

Just a follow up.

Found the best prices and service for Rockwool from Minster in Southampton.(www.minster-ins.co.uk)

They have branches all over the country and have good delivery prices.

Cheers for all the suggestions guys

Kieran.

I'll ask this question here so I don't start a new post.

What type of material would you use for covering diy bass trap panels?

I'm just about to have a go at making some but i'm not sure what sort of material would be most suitable for stretching over the front of the wooden frames. I'll be using rockwool slabs inside the frames.

I would preferably like the option of making them "blend" in with the room so colour would be a major factor I guess.

If anyone has any links to examples that would be just dandy

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easily pleased...

Quote Steve Hill:

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Roughly speaking, you would need to go up to 100kg/m3 to get to (a little over) 6 lbs/cu ft. I'm happy to be challenged on my maths here!

Otherwise, from the point of view of comparing US and UK brands, is it in fact fair to say RS60 is broadly equivalent to 705?

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GOOD MORNING ALL!!

Now that i've got your attention (hopefully), i,d like to finally dispel the US - UK rockwool conversion issue. Here's a link which i found after about two-weeks hunting.
Yep, an OFFICIAL UK ROCKWOOL PRODUCT SPEC SHEET. All the stats are there. Wahooo!

http://www.sheffieldinsulations.co.uk/Literature/Rigid_Semi_rigid_Flexible _slab.pdf

RWA45 45kg/m3
RW3 60kg/m3
RW5 100kg/m3
RW6 140kg/m3

Minor discrepancy tho, RW6 is stated as having a density of 140kg/m3 on the chart, but 120kg/m3 on other merchants' sites.

So, anyone gonna be settling for 45kg/m3? Thought not. Hope this helps. Thought so.


Absorptively Yours,

Andy

Thought i'd add what i've done
i converted half my garage (rougly 46 meters away from house)
seperate it in half with a wall using breezeblocks
2inch wood frames on all the walls packed with 6 inch rockwool from my local jewsons then plasterboard on top
seling was packed with doubled up 6 inch rockwool and plasterboard and i havent got round to getting a new door so i just gaffa taped thick foam on the door lol
all the walls are painted black and the door and small window at the top behind me act as quite a good bass trap
the room itself supprisingly very well soundproofed
and for internet access im not using wireless I dont like it I advise one of those belkin power adapters just run it through your electrical line fantastisc for games to =)

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""Electronica" was a phrase invented by a man in a office and when we find out who it is wer'e gonna slap him " Liam Howlett 1997

Hi.. I've been on a mission all day trying to find some barrier mat for cheep Most places I phoned up were too expensive for my really tight budget, but I came across "sound service oxford" :-

http://www.isolgomma.co.uk/SBM5.htm

I found their soundproof mat to be exactly the same as another supplier but much cheaper. (worked out a quarter of the price even though it was the same stuff )

Just thought I'd post it up incase anyone else was in the same boat as me. Worth phoning them up to enquire on prices neways

xx

I tried James Dolman neoprene supplier who quoted me £3.9 per metre for 20m of 6mm thick 10cm wide neoprene total £99.90 plus £21.90 delivery grand total £121.80.

Then tried Thames Valley Supplies Ltd
Churchill House, Unit 9
114 Windmill Road
Brentford, TW8 9NA
Tel From UK: 020 8560 3385 ,spoke to Kerry Way, total including delivery and VAT for the same spec 6mm neoprene rubber £48.53 Thats £1.61 per metre.This has got to be worth checking out.

For any folks in Ireland, Irish Insulations. Just spoke to them, very helpful and friendly. They stock both Rockwool and Rocksil (although I was only asking for RS60 and RW3). The rockwool was €33.35 per pack and the Rocksil was €25.68 per pack and their delivery charge was only €25 to Roscommon. Maybe I'm just easily impressed cause I drove an hour yesterday to collect insulation only to find out it wasn't what they assured me it was over the phone. Hmmm....

Hope this helps someone,
Cheers,
Mike

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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.", Einstein.
www.eequalsmcstudios.com

This is a response to Costleys query re Fermacell.

Yes I have used it - not for studio construction but on a house renovation. It is heavier, harder to cut, much more expensive and harder to work with than standard plasterboard, but if I was doing a studio I would definitely use it even though I'm not sure I would use on a domestic renovation again.

It is heavier - therefore less sound transmission.

It is much more rigid and the fixing system involves gluing the sheets together along all edges so you end up with a single rigid membrane.

better fireproofing, better soundproofing, better structural integrity - plasterboard is just dust sandwiched between two pieces of paper.

I'm in the UK and used an internet supplier of Roskwool/Rocksilk called BMDinsulation.

http://www.bmdinsulation.com/

Very cheap. I have no connection other than as a customer. I have some leftover RS60 (12 sheets) which I'm selling on ebay - I won't post it here but will put it in the adverts section as per forum rules.

Hi,

I've been reading on here for a few days, I just have to say there's a few conflicting posts. So i'm a little confused.

Just to add to the thread, its a little information about sound proofing. It may help others like me. (purely information on basics of sound proofing) I'm not related/affliated with the company!!!!-unlike some)

http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/help.htm

Can i ask a basic question, I need to sound proof a 5m x5 x2 meter room mainly for voice recordings. What is my best option for a 'low' budget.
If necessary i'll start a new thread, i know i've more reading but at least if i read into background of the stuff i need to use. (hence the question)
thanks you.
Andrew

Hi there all

Well I’m also looking for one of the cheapest UK supplies to outfit a troubling issue between the flat below me.

I need to construct a sub flooring with (Rubber mat material several layers of would MDF work as soiled flat firm surface?

So where can I find a sappily because I need to get this solved?

Also would treatment on the walls reduce some sound transmission going though and coming though from adjacent flats below.

Cheers

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”She rests at last beneath the starry skies.”

Anyone know a neoprene supplier in Ireland?
Thanks
Justin

Hi
I realise I'm responding to an old post of yours, but I'm intrigued by your comments about using floating floors (or not) for soundproofing. I'm just getting nowhere trying to work out the best (most cost effective) way to soundproof my detached garage so the band can practice without annoying anyone. Given our typical set up of drums, bass guitar etc, do you think theres a particular method for the flooring I should be considering?
Cheers

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So - do you want me to play it too loud or too fast??!!!??
LRLLRLR OR RLRRLRL? - that is the question........

Bert - it might be better if you started a thread of your own on your garage studio rather than try to add your questions to other threads.

If your garage has a good concrete base then flooring is probably the least of your problems. The weakest points are likely to be the windows, doors and roof.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Ok thanks James. I'll start a new post and see how it goes. Cheers
Rob

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So - do you want me to play it too loud or too fast??!!!??
LRLLRLR OR RLRRLRL? - that is the question........

I'm planning to have my own mini studio here at Utah Lehi. hope I could find great materials i need..

Edited by zenguitar (10/11/11 01:42 PM)

What is important with seals is that they remain elastic and in contact with the surfaces (long term).

It's important to use backer rod (this is not to save caulk - this is because you need 2 point contact with caulk - otherwise it fails).

Inside any acoustic caulk will work - butyl caulks work pretty well - silicone caulks work well.

Outside - my best recommendation would be Big-Stretch which is made by Sashco.

This is some of the best caulk I have ever used - a bit pricy but it stretches like crazy (up to 500% - and that is not just manufacturer's hype) - can span some huge joints - and is an easy cleanup with water.

Good Luck

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acoustic wall panels|Acoustic curtains

WHAT ARE THE BEST BUT NOT COSTLY? BTW, I KNOW ALL BEST ARE COSTLY

Edited by zenguitar (14/01/12 12:12 PM)

WHITE FROST PROTECTION GROUND-COVER SHEETING makes an excellent particle-retaining barrier for rockwool acoustic panels.

It's extremely cheap - 30p per metre from a 1.5m roll at my local store - very finely woven, stretchy and surprisingly strong. It resembles the inside of hoover bags. It's a cheaper, more attractive and I'm certain more effective alternative to the black weed barrier Studio SOS has used in the past. Plus the fact it's white allows you to use a paler coloured, less dense (hence cheaper) fabric as a posh top cover!

For added durability it can be doubled up, or tripled up!

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