Quote zenguitar:

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I tightened up the loops of strings Spanish Windlass style

---

I'd never heard it called that before. Is that the one they perfected on those apparatus they built to give people a good stretch during the inquisition!

Seriously, good to see things back on track. Let's hope the new glue is tenacious.

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

---

Quote zenguitar:

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I tightened up the loops of strings Spanish Windlass style

---

I'd never heard it called that before. Is that the one they perfected on those apparatus they built to give people a good stretch during the inquisition!

---

Not as sophisticated as the rack I'm afraid. And technically not a true Spanish Windlass either as that uses a vertical stake as well; but it does function in the same way. But regardless of the detail, it works very well

And here we are once the second split is glued.





And then it was time to address the new split that I made when I took the back off. This was a small split close to the heel block. It was only a couple of inches long at most, and I needed to flex the back quite a lot to get it moving. But it still needed to be fixed because it would definitively have got worse over time. Like before, I used slightly watered down glue so that I could use capillary action to draw it into the crack by 'working' on the back with my hands to flex the split.



Tomorrow I can start cleaning the back ready to rebrace it.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Zen - an out of interest question

When you get a split in a sheet of metal, the common thing to do is to drill a hole at the ends of the split to stop it spreading. Thoughts are the curves of the holes spread the stress out as opposed to the sharp point of the crack which means its less likely to spread.

Any reason why this approach is not taken (I know wood and metal are totally different but the hole concept has to be the same)?

--------------------
Madman_Greg

Quote Madman_Greg:

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Zen - an out of interest question

When you get a split in a sheet of metal, the common thing to do is to drill a hole at the ends of the split to stop it spreading. Thoughts are the curves of the holes spread the stress out as opposed to the sharp point of the crack which means its less likely to spread.

Any reason why this approach is not taken (I know wood and metal are totally different but the hole concept has to be the same)?

---

I would guess that this technique only works with materials that don't have a significant grain structure (it works with glass).

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

---

Quote Madman_Greg:

---

Zen - an out of interest question

When you get a split in a sheet of metal, the common thing to do is to drill a hole at the ends of the split to stop it spreading. Thoughts are the curves of the holes spread the stress out as opposed to the sharp point of the crack which means its less likely to spread.

Any reason why this approach is not taken (I know wood and metal are totally different but the hole concept has to be the same)?

---

I would guess that this technique only works with materials that don't have a significant grain structure (it works with glass).

---

Steel sheet has a grain structure, just that you need a microscope to see it and a prepared sample

--------------------
Madman_Greg

Quote Madman_Greg:

---

Quote Folderol:

---

Quote Madman_Greg:

---

Zen - an out of interest question

When you get a split in a sheet of metal, the common thing to do is to drill a hole at the ends of the split to stop it spreading. Thoughts are the curves of the holes spread the stress out as opposed to the sharp point of the crack which means its less likely to spread.

Any reason why this approach is not taken (I know wood and metal are totally different but the hole concept has to be the same)?

---

I would guess that this technique only works with materials that don't have a significant grain structure (it works with glass).

---

Steel sheet has a grain structure, just that you need a microscope to see it and a prepared sample

---

Indeedy guys. Once a split starts, the best way to stop it going any further is a hole. My favourite reference for stuff like this is a book called Structures by J E Gordon. It's written in plain English for the lay reader by someone with a lifetime of teaching the subject. Highly recommended indeed.

However, there are two very good reasons why we can't use that solution here. The first is that we don't want to stop the progress of the split, we want to repair it and make it good again. The second is that drilling holes is rather too obvious for our needs. While a couple of holes drilled in the back of an instrument might resolve the mechanical issues by stopping the split getting bigger, and won't make much if any difference to the sound of the instrument, holes are not acceptable. And even if we plugged them, the plugs would still be visible and draw attention to the repair. And as a glued split is a stronger joint than a glued butt joint (which is used to join the two halves of of the front and back anyway) it shouldn't be a weak point in the future. And the reason it is stronger than the butt joint is that it has a greater surface area for glueing.

Anyway... here's that repaired back.



And here's the other side, complete with the new brace blanks. After the last repair, I kept the thicknessed offcuts from the braces and they will do a perfect job for the new replacements. You really can't beat a 'scrap wood' box in a workshop, it can dig you out of a lot of holes



And I also saved the cleats from the previous repair that I had to remove. So it was a matter of minutes to clean them up, apply a little glue, and make a nice rubbed joint or 3 to apply those too.



So another good day's work. And tomorrow I'll start shaping the new braces ready for fitting

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Fingers still crossed (makes typing a bit cumbersome

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Don't worry, it's safe to uncross those fingers now. The back is in one piece again so the worst is over for the time being.

Today was pretty straightforward really. Plane and sand the radius on the back braces first...



Then a little work with the scalpel so that they fitted neatly into the slots in the back strip, like so...



Then slap on some of the nice new glue, apply clamps, and clean up the excess.



And before you know it, the first brace is glued in place. Day off tomorrow, and back on Monday to glue the second brace.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And a leisurely Monday today.

Remove 4 clamps, apply glue to bottom of 2nd brace, and re-apply 4 clamps....

viola!!





And tomorrow... a variation on the same theme

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And, as promised, a variation on the same theme.

Removed clamps from 2nd brace, wasted a little time listening to Radio 4, applied glue to 3rd brace and applied clamps. Only difference was adding a couple of extra clamps at the end because it is the longest brace. OK, not exciting, I know, but there are pics





And tomorrow, I can start shaping the new braces. So look forward to pics involving chisels and wood shavings.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

"So look forward to pics involving chisels and wood shavings."
Wow! Sharp edges and curly bits. I think I need to go and lie down!

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

I am writing this slowly, for the benefit of those of you lying down

With the clamps removed it was time to reduce the braces in height ready for shaping.

*Warning* this pic features wood shavings.



And then it was time to start shaping the braces. And this time around I decided to apply a masking tape mask just to protect the back from stray chisels.



You may have noticed that the tops of the braces look dirty. I used a pencil lead to darken the tops of the braces to make it easier to see the width of the top as I trimmed back. Then it was time to use the chisel in anger.



And again on the second brace...



And that was enough for one hot July afternoon.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And today carried on from yesterday, time to finish shaping the last brace.



Then it was time to grab the sandpaper and make everything neat and tidy.



And after that, it was the finer sandpaper and then trimming the edges and cutting the shapes on the end ready for fitting the back to the body.



Tomorrow is a day off for project ukulele, need to spend the afternoon online here. But back again on Saturday.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

All looking very tidy. BTW Zen, you are running out of days to 'fess up to a significant date... a few days off from shavings is cool... did I miss something?.... Four days left...



--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

And I will be working on the ukes this afternoon. For alcohol related reasons I was confused last night I will consider that as a 'training exercise' for Monday's 'celebrations'

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

What are those lumps? Looks like there are 5 of them. The poor thing hasn't been a victim of insect bites has it? ... Like I have

P.S.
Hope you enjoy your 'significant' Monday, whatever it is!

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Edited by Folderol (27/07/12 06:53 PM)

Ah... the lumps...

They are the cleats I put over the original repairs plus those I removed from the broken repairs and re-applied to the new ones. The cleats are meant to bridge the repair and help hold it together, not essential but an insurance policy.

And interestingly, after working this afternoon to trim the new braces and prepare the back for fitting I discovered something interesting. It was really hard work getting the back to sit neatly in the right place. And when I looked into matters it appears that the back reinforcement strip was fouling the heel block. Not by a lot, but enough to have put some extra pressure on the back once it had been glued before. I certainly recall that it was tight fitting the back the first time, and I had to trim a little from the strip when refitting it the last time too. So, it is a real possibility that the extra pressure that created was at least a partial cause of the original and subsequent sets of splits to the back. OK, it's largely conjecture at this stage, but if I'm right it does go a long way towards explaining what went wrong before. So it's, tentatively, good news really.

I spent the afternoon trimming the kerfings to take the new braces so that the back sits in the correct location. Then cleaning the kerfings ready for glueing again. In the process of cleaning the kerfings, there were a couple of places where they split so that explains the masking tape on the following pic. That's where I glued them and taped them.



There's a little more work to do to fine tune fitting the back to the body. And I really should do a little work on the go-bar deck too before using it to reglue the back. The clamping pressure from the go-bars makes the top plate of the deck bow upwards a little, and that in turn makes using it a lot fussier than it should be (go-bars go in place fine, but once I add more the first ones get looser as the top flexes and can apply less pressure or even fall out). So I might be investing in a piece of 2"x1" timber to make some reinforcement for the top before going ahead with reglueing the back.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote Folderol:

---

Hope you enjoy your 'significant' Monday, whatever it is!

---

The Uke Mistier becomes vintage. Not an antique by a long way. But officially vintage. Monday is a big day in Zenshire! We should have organised a trough of award winning scrumpy...

All looks like you're in a good place going forward there Andy, with the ukes I mean!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Yesterday, all my troubles involved a trip to B&Q. Well, the troubles weren't B&Q... it's just that I left it late to go there to get some screws and timber to upgrade to Go-Bar Deck 2.0.0 and was then instructed to pop into Tesco's to get some potatoes, carrots, frozen peas, and bread...

So it was inevitable that the roads were busy because of the fine weather. And even though I rushed around B&Q to grab the wood and screws, it was written in the stars that the guy in front of me at the till managed to pick up the only piece of timber without a sticker bearing a bar code...

And once I'd got out of the store I had to grab the tape measure and saw to cut the timber to fit it in the car before rejoining the traffic to get to Tesco's with 10 mins to spare...

But that was Sunday, when I was still a Sallow Youth

Today I had to re-discover the Go-Bar Deck of Doom. Remove the top plate. And then patiently mark out the timber for the re-enforcements. Once marked out, I managed to make some saw cuts



So tomorrow, I'll risk the hangover to apply a scarily sharp chisel to complete the notches. Then once I've fettled everything together I'll drill, glue, and screw all the bits into something notionally sophisticated and effective. All to ensure that nothing goes wrong this time I glue the back on again!!

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And you will. Hick. Up.



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Strictly project and just for fun

Hey Ho.. Back to work this afternoon.

And once I was primed with some black coffee I was able to grab a chisel and mallet and cut out those notches. No need for any of that fancy accuracy stuff... within a millimetre or so is good enough here. A few minutes with a wider chisel trimming to width, and everything fitted together nicely.



So all that was needed was to glue and screw the frame to the top board. Line everything up by eye, mark the location of the rails on the edge of the top board. Transfer those marks to the other face. Then clamp everything in place to drill the pilot holes for the long rails and countersink them. Then wax the threads of 30 screws, drill them into the top board, apply glue to the rails, put rails in place and drive the screws in all the way. Clean up excess glue. Sounds easier if you say it quickly



Then it was something similar for the cross rails. Drill them all at the same time, clean up, and then glue and screw the two outer rails individually. Then both the inner rails at the same time.

And here it is with the glue drying overnight. The 'New, Improved, Flex-Free, Go-Bar Deck of Doom'.



However, there are now over 60 screw heads in the previously flat surface. Tomorrow I'll have a look and decide whether they will be a potential problem in the future or not. If they are, I'll spend a pleasant afternoon making sawdust, mixing it with wood glue, and using the resulting wood-gunk to fill and dress the screw heads and make everything nice and smooth again.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

D*mn!! It's late!!

Been too busy watching the Olympics earlier and catching up with the forums tonight.

So... quick post tonight...

Here's those pesky screw heads...



Here's me making lots of fine sawdust with one of my fine saws...



Here I am mixing sawdust with wood glue to make my filler...



And here's the end result with all the holes filled ready to dry overnight...



Tomorrow involves a trip to the shops to buy food, and then some time with sandpaper cleaning it up.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Tomorrow involves a trip to the shops to buy food, and then some time with sandpaper cleaning it up.

Andy

---

Those must be good wholesome vegetables, harvested fresh out of the earth you have there in Zenshire, Andy. The stuff we get fobbed off with in London's supermarkets usually scrubs up OK after just a quick rinse under the tap. Or maybe a light tickle with the potato peeler...

Sorry, couldn't resist

Its good to see the momentum rolling along. Your one step back will be two steps forward before you know it. Inspiring stuff!

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Strictly project and just for fun

Erm, since this is only the gobar deck, what's wrong with yer normal wood filler?

Also if you're gluing-and-screwing, and it looks like you've got a decent thickness of board, could you not have screwed into the backside (insert fnarr-fnarr here)? Sure the screw joint wouldn't be so secure, but isn't the glue joint the main thing? Or is that not so reliable with MDF?

Quote grab:

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Erm, since this is only the gobar deck, what's wrong with yer normal wood filler?

Also if you're gluing-and-screwing, and it looks like you've got a decent thickness of board, could you not have screwed into the backside (insert fnarr-fnarr here)? Sure the screw joint wouldn't be so secure, but isn't the glue joint the main thing? Or is that not so reliable with MDF?

---

MDF is such a fibrous material I would be inclined to treat the glue as simply stopping it from rattling! It's the screws that are doing the real work, anchoring a rather bendy (but certainly useful) material to a real wood frame that should be highly resistant to twisting or bowing.

Hopefully Andy's go bars will become 'stay put' bars

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

What is my normal wood filler?

None, of course. I'm a luthier not a building site chippie !!! Gaps are not allowed, simples.

The visible screw heads were perfectly acceptable and would have little or no bearing in use. But I wouldn't be a luthier if I was happy with that. So I screwed them a little deeper, and while I could have driven into town to buy a tube of wood filler, it was quicker to make some myself that was just as good and made from what I had to hand.

Here it is sanded and scraped.



Much better now

But it did shrink back as it dried so there are still small dips, and I'll fill those tomorrow after the Behringer Q&A session

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

OK!!!

I did my best, I filled the dips nicely. But due to Behringer cancelling the Q&A session at the last minute I am accidentally ahead of schedule. I am sincerely sorry. I know that, like myself, many of you are not used to me being ahead of schedule.

Anyway...

I decided to make this a much finer and smoother filler. So instead of the saw, I used a file and sandpaper to make much finer dust. I also used a mix of softwood (from the offcuts of the new reinforcement) and hardwood (from Peruvian Walnut offcuts from the necks). Might not make any material difference, but it looks good



Then I mixed it with white glue, a few drops of water helped it come together nicely, and applied as required.



I think I'll be a lot happier tomorrow

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Yep... much nicer now I've sanded that back



But it's Saturday, no point in rushing to get the back on and then leaving it under the go bars until Monday. I might have tamed the Go-Bar Deck of Doom with this modification, but it can still pack a punch if left unattended too long. And besides, today has Olympic'd me out!!

So I made some more fine filler and went the extra mile



Unnecessary? Of course. But I couldn't resist. Back to proper work on Monday.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

And yes, here it is finally filled and sanded.



And here's the Go-Bar Deck of Doom re-assembled and ready to go.



I spent a few minutes with a scalpel tweaking the slots in the kerfing ready to take the new back braces. And now it's beginning to look ready to reglue once more. However, still a couple of things to work on before I go ahead and glue.

This time around the uke has the neck, fretboard, and bridge, all glued in place. So I need to devise some support for the body to stop it wobbling around when I apply the clamping pressure. And because the body is slimmer at the heel block than it is at the tail block, that support needs to be thicker at the neck end of the body to keep the back of the uke parallel with the top plate on the G-Bar Deck (which I need to do to control the clamping pressure properly).

The other issue is a little more subtle but still needs thinking about. Basically, when the back was removed it allowed the sides to spring out a mm or two at the waist. That is largely expected because the sides will settle slightly over time and the tendency is to fractionally straighten out the bends in the sides. When this happens, there are two options. The first is to construct the jig to hold it in place for clamping with something extra that allows me to squeeze the sides at the waist to match the shape more exactly to the back; the second is to not worry about it and rely on the bindings to take up the slack instead.

On a guitar I wouldn't think twice about easing the sides back in to match the back. But a Uke is much smaller with tighter curves which makes it a little springier. My concern is that the sides trying to spring back out a fraction will put additional stress on the repairs that will be constantly pulling them apart and making greater demands on the repair. So it's time to look in more detail and see if the bindings will be wide enough to accommodate that extra mm or so. If they are, no problem. But if not I have to decide between squeezing the sides back a fraction or adding an extra strip of perfling to the bindings.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Having a look at the reassembly, a point of concern occurs to me.

There is no stiffening where the tensioning screws actually go, which might make the MDF board tend to curl down at that point, and possibly even try to peel away from the braces.

Looking at the earlier pictures, the MDF has been compressed quite a bit by the action of the bolts, so I wonder if there should be additional reinforcement at the corners.

Disclaimer:
Past bright ideas are not proof that I know what I'm talking about.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

After sleeping on things and living with the ideas I thought... B*gger This!!!

Here's a test assembly on the bench. Everything seems in the right place.



So time to move it to the go-bar deck and fine tune.



So no excuses, time to glue and clamp

Quote Folderol:

---

Having a look at the reassembly, a point of concern occurs to me.

There is no stiffening where the tensioning screws actually go, which might make the MDF board tend to curl down at that point, and possibly even try to peel away from the braces.

Looking at the earlier pictures, the MDF has been compressed quite a bit by the action of the bolts, so I wonder if there should be additional reinforcement at the corners.

Disclaimer:
Past bright ideas are not proof that I know what I'm talking about.

---

As you can see, the top of the go-bar deck is now entirely flex free. The glue and screw construction is more than strong enough to resist the flex forces. There are a lot of screws there, and the grid pattern transfers the tension evenly across the top board.

I think that everything has gone well. I did my best to make sure the back was well located and am reasonably confident that the 3 purflings and binding will be wide enough. But I'll find out for certain tomorrow.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

An excellent outcome. Not only has the back glued on cleanly, it's in the right place. Looks like the bindings will be wide enough to do the job without adding an extra layer of perfling.







Checked the replacement bindings and perflings and found a minor problem though. The Maple bindings are both excellent, but aren't well colour matched. I could use them but I know I would notice the difference. However, I am pretty sure I can get these in the UK so it may well be worth getting a couple of replacements in. It was matching the coloured perflings that required me to re-order from LMI, so if I decide that this IS a problem, there should be a much easier, cheaper, and quicker solution.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

A quiet day today... spent a short while tidying up the workshop, but mostly thinking and researching online.

First up, I'd prefer to have matching Maple bindings and I'm not happy with the pair I received from LMI. Both are excellent, but colour-wise they really don't match at all. However, I had to order from LMI to match the perflings, not the bindings. And David Dyke's Luthiers Supplies in the UK have identical sized maple at a sensible price, so I've decided to order a couple of extra lengths there.

Secondly, the Dremel bit I use to cut the binding channels is well past it's best. You might remember that I used a chisel and scalpel to clean up the binding channel I cut when I first replaced the back. So, a replacement bit is in order too. IF they have it in stock, I could pick one up at B&Q, but for about the same price I can pick up two from Ebay so I think I'll go that way too.

So, a trip to the bank is in order in the next few days, to pay some cash in so I can order the parts. A frustrating delay, but one that is worth it.

I've got a few odd jobs for tomorrow. And a guitar in for set-up that needs a bridge plane that will pass the time nicely.

But there is something else important too... Today we passed 200k views for the Project Ukulele thread. So a MASSIVE thank you to everyone following the progress, your interest really has helped me through the good and the bad. THANK YOU ALL.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Today we passed 200k views for the Project Ukulele thread. So a MASSIVE thank you to everyone following the progress, your interest really has helped me through the good and the bad. THANK YOU ALL.

Andy

---

Them ukes have gone viral

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Frisonic:

---

Them ukes have gone viral

---

Viral? How on earth am I going to fix that too!!!!

Today was quiet. Had a chat with Mark about the Maple bindings and agreed that I should get a replacement or two. Also going to get a couple more 115 cutters for the Dremel at the same time. So a trip to the bank is now in order, and then I'll order online.

Meanwhile, I took care of some housekeeping chores and then planed the bridge of a friend's new acoustic ready to set it up properly.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

In the words of Alan Partridge.... Ah HAA!!!!!!

Or should that be... Knowing Me, Knowing Uke

Orders were placed online... payments made... and Lo! & Behold! Stuff arrives in the post.



Loverly new Maple bindings... Mmmmmm

Fresh from David Dyke's Luthiers Supplies. And a big thank you to Andrew there for the excellent service (and the luthier gossip ). I've been using Luthier's Mercantile in this project because I could get some of the more specialist Ukulele parts from them so it was worth getting the woods at the same time. But over the years I've used David Dyke many times and they are still my first port of call in the UK. So it was a real pleasure to make use of their services again on Project Ukulele. You can't see in the pic, but these Maple bindings really are Top Notch Stuff.

The other package had the new Dremel 115 cutters. So I had to use one right away



And here's the binding channel re-cut already. A very quick, neat, clean job. And tomorrow I meed to go in manually and remove the old bindings that remain by the heel. The Dremel tool couldn't get in there, but that was expected and planned for.

It's good to be back to work

Amdy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Refitting the back this time introduces a new problem. The first time I did it the neck hadn't been fitted. However, this time the neck is neatly attached. Bolted on, but the fretboard is securely glued to the front. So it needs a little 'creativity' at each step.

So after sharpening a couple of my thinnest chisels it was time to think outside the envelope. And here's what I came up with.





Loosen the neck bolts, apply gentle pressure to open a gap between the heel of the neck and the body, and slip a Stanley knife blade in the gap. That makes a nice protective barrier to prevent the chisels doing any damage to the heel. So it didn't take long to remove the last remnants of the bindings from the heel. And a little longer with chisels and scalpel nicely cleaned up the binding channel around the cutaway too.



So, the next job is to bend the new bindings ready for fitting. So spent the rest of the afternoon getting everything ready. Cleaned the water bowl, but the cloths I use are all dirty now, especially from the bloodwood. The steam that bends the bindings also draws colour from the wood. And the last thing I want to do is to make the nice new Maple dirty when bending it. So I've washed the cloths ready to make a start bending tomorrow.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

You may well already be aware of them, but for fine work in difficult to access gaps I find Beaver mini-blades are perfect. They're essentially for cataract surgery but they're easily available & not too expensive. A 61 chisel blade would have been perfect for what you've had to contend with today.

I've always promised myself a pack of 69 blades. Absolutely no idea what they're for, but I've always wondered whether I could say '69 please nurse' and keep a straight face.

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Ha!
Top marks for the sneaky trick with the Stanley blade

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Thanks for that advice Mike, it's new to me and worth looking into for the future.

I checked the website of my regular Swan & Morton supplier and discovered that Swan & Morton have a range like Beaver. The 61 chisel blade is here and here's your 69 blade to admire. The handles and blades look compatible to the Beaver range I found when searching. A lot more expensive than the regular scalpel blades but definitely worth considering for the future, they look like they could solve the occasional problem.

Thanks again

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.