Quote feline1:

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the ProMars is good!

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Every synth is good to someone!

Just my own personal prejudices. I’m sure a lot of good music has been made with it! For every dissenter there’s an ardent fan – and vice versa.

All that really matters is the music you make.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Quote feline1:

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the ProMars is good!

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Every synth is good to someone!

Just my own personal prejudices. I’m sure a lot of good music has been made with it! For every dissenter there’s an ardent fan – and vice versa.

All that really matters is the music you make.

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Yeah. I mean - the Taurus? Yuck!


OJ...

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I'm All Ears.

Quote Peter Conz Connelly:

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Juno 1/2!!!! Interesting. I find this is the one synth (and I've had many) I will never part with

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To each their own. For me Roland left ‘fat’ behind with the Jupiter synths. My interpretation of ‘fat’ is two VCO sawtooth waveform, searingly beating against one another in close-tuning to the point where it sounds as if someone is slicing your ears off with a laser.

...maybe!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote ken long:

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Yeah. I mean - the Taurus? Yuck!
OJ...

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Hee hee! If you’d said Taurus 2, I’d be right there with ya!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Alpha Juno is a funny one...

I'd rate it as a mediocre synth but also as a very good dance music synth lol

I wouldn't sell mine, picked it up for £70 when they were uncool..very nice warm sounding synth

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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Alpha Juno is a funny one...

I'd rate it as a mediocre synth but also as a very good dance music synth lol

I wouldn't sell mine, picked it up for £70 when they were uncool..very nice warm sounding synth

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Yeah, killer bass sounds, stabs and SFX. Perfect

P

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Composer, Producer, Sound Designer
www.universal-sound-design.com

Quote baward:

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Quote Chaconne:

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You know part of the problem is that Roland analog synths are just brilliant!

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With due respect, I think that is a ridiculous sweeping generalisation. It's like saying that all Moog's are brilliant - Minitmoog, Taurus 2 or Liberation, anyone?

All manufacturers of anything have their good points and their bad points.

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Well I still stand by it.

Personally everytime I audition a new virtual synth, I have to turn off the horrible trance arp settings and FX, and still end up scratching my head 'cos I cant find a sound.

However, every Roland analogue synth I try I can get something inspirational out of it - with no FX or reverb. I honestly cant think of one I have tried and thought - nah.
(Except my Alpha Juno but that was because of the alpha wheel- once hooked up to my PC it suddenly came alive. I was just not clever enough to program it and I wouldn't swop it now for any mega ultra vintage all VST synth ultra box)


anyhoo - 60 or Jupiter 4 - its all good - get both if you can - and DCO rolands make great pop music - 'phat' is not everything - unless it is!

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You could get a hardware programmer for the juno also mate. Brought it to life also.

For me if ever I got a JX or Alpha or super jup, the hardware controllers would be essential.

That's precisely why the ProMars is good: it's a single-voice version of the Jupiter 4, with a dual VCO! So it can do some lovely nice PHAT sounds that the JP4 can't really achieve, cos there's no VCO detune available there.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I’ll admit my memory of the ProMars is long faded, so I’ll bow to your judgement. I played with it back in the day and thought it a bit of a cheesy-sounding machine. To be fair I didn’t enthuse much about the JP-4 either.

If you want to rattle up some audio examples I’d be prepared to have my mind changed!

I have form in this area. I once played around with a Korg MonoPoly and thought it a very weedy synth, dismissing it without a second thought. Years later I played with one again and was knocked out by how good it sounded. Doh!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

J4s sometimes detune automatically Part of there uniqueness :]

Quote The Elf:

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I have form in this area. I once played around with a Korg MonoPoly and thought it a very weedy synth, dismissing it without a second thought. Years later I played with one again and was knocked out by how good it sounded. Doh!

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I think time (or effects) can make a whole lot of difference to how something sounds to you, or your memory of it sounded. I recall Andy McCluskey (of OMD) saying that when they remixed some of their old stuff a few years ago, how utterly weedy and thin the solo synth on 'Enola Gay' (a Korg Micropreset I seem to recall) sounded. A lot of the sound on the record had to do with state of the art studio effects, rather than the synth itself. I think that that must still hold true in a lot of cases.

I'd agreee, the Monopoly is killer though

Quote The Elf:

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I’ll admit my memory of the ProMars is long faded, so I’ll bow to your judgement. I played with it back in the day and thought it a bit of a cheesy-sounding machine. To be fair I didn’t enthuse much about the JP-4 either.

If you want to rattle up some audio examples I’d be prepared to have my mind changed!

I have form in this area. I once played around with a Korg MonoPoly and thought it a very weedy synth, dismissing it without a second thought. Years later I played with one again and was knocked out by how good it sounded. Doh!

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I seem to recall you said the same recently about the JD800!

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote The Elf:

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If you want to rattle up some audio examples I’d be prepared to have my mind changed!

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Have a search on YouTube for "MISS PAIN CAMPARI & SEX" and other tunes of theirs. They do some great turns on the ProMars

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote Richie Royale:

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Quote The Elf:

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I’ll admit my memory of the ProMars is long faded, so I’ll bow to your judgement. I played with it back in the day and thought it a bit of a cheesy-sounding machine. To be fair I didn’t enthuse much about the JP-4 either.

If you want to rattle up some audio examples I’d be prepared to have my mind changed!

I have form in this area. I once played around with a Korg MonoPoly and thought it a very weedy synth, dismissing it without a second thought. Years later I played with one again and was knocked out by how good it sounded. Doh!

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I seem to recall you said the same recently about the JD800!

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Yep, as I admit - I've got form! If I don't rate a synth it would be worth buying as many as possible now!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote:

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To be fair I didn’t enthuse much about the JP-4 either.

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gasp!!

I remember being on the phone to Roland in Swansea in about 2002, trying to get some part or summat ordered for the Jupiter 4,
and this grumpy guts engineer there was moaning on at me about how it
was crap anyways and the only thing going for it on it's release was
that it could play more than one note at once, but the sounds were rubbish and once the Jupiter 8 came out it was just best forgotten about.
I was like "huh? well I'm a musician and love it" and he got even arsier with me and I just thought "what a tw@t" lol

As Phil Oakey said "the JP4 is a synth that will be tatooed on my heart for ever"

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote The Elf:

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My Roland analogue turkey list:
Alpha Juno 1 & 2, RS-101, RS-09, ProMars...

And here's the controversial one – TB-303. It never did it for me and still doesn't.

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I'm with you on the 303. I had one for a few months in '95 and thought it was a lot crappier than everyone was banging on about, even back then. They were about £300 at the time. My only regret is not keeping it and selling it ten years later to fund a hide-out that looks like a volcano.

As for the RS-101, I got mine for £45 and it was very, very broken... lots of fixing later, it almost nearly all works, and sounds great. What don't you like about it? I'm guessing the lack of ensemble control, as you don't list the 202...

Totally agree Feline. The J4 is one of if not my most favoured synths ever. If not most favourite.


nathanscribe = I love the 303. Its been done to death 5 time over now yet for me, used constructively it just doesn't get boring.

Snigger! I only need one person to defend the RS-09 and I've got a complete collection!

It gladdens me that there are players out there who will continue to cherish these synths. Regardless of what I think about them as a synthesist, as a techno-geek I like to know they are all in safe hands. Bless you all!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

If ever someone gives me a J4 and a TB303 it would go down as one of the best days of my life.....




Im waiting

I think the thing with stuff like the 303 is it does a particular thing and nothing else, so if that thing is not your thing, there's little point to it. I felt like I was trying to force myself to use the 303. I had much more use out of my 606 though, so I still have at least one little silver box...

Regarding the original point of the thread, I have both a JP-4 and a pair of Junos, a 6 and 60. The Juno-6 was my first real synth about 20 years ago, and I've so much use of those two... they make great simple go-to all-rounders, despite missing one or two useful features.

In the interesting of possibly lowering the price of the Jupe-4, here's a track using all its presets and a DR-55. And before anybody asks, yes, it's meant to sound like that...

Jupe-4 presets

Quote:

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I think the thing with stuff like the 303 is it does a particular thing and nothing else, so if that thing is not your thing, there's little point to it

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Fair point mate. I cant argue with this at all. TBH I have always favoured the 101. It does one of the nearest impersonations of the 303 you can get. After FX and compression is added you wouldn't know the diff. Yet the 101 also does 3 other sounds lol.

As for the J4 presets. This has to be the worsed thing about the synth. Acctually no, the worsed thing is you cant copy over them

Perhaps even better than the 101 is the MC-202. The sequencer has some things in common with the 303 in that you can apply accent to both VCA & VCF, and it had programmable glide, so it's possible to emulate the 303's quirks more than many monosynths. It's also a pig to program. I regret selling my 202. It was sitting around gathering dust but a few months ago I hit on a project that would have been its perfect vehicle. Naturally the price has doubled since...

The JP-4 memories might be a bit limiting but I actually like the presets. That demo was very quick & dirty but I had a lot more fun with it than some of my other 1-synth efforts.

There's also the Io Upgrade which adds memories, MIDI and sysex patch storage. I don't know if it's been mentioned around here at all but I think it's relatively recent - the last year or two maybe.

Re the J4 'io' upgrade if anyones interested I have the guys Email address.

Far superior to the Kentons offering, far cheaper and far easier to install also


Mate me and you must have totally different tastes as I think the presets are shockingly bad. Still if everyone was the same life would be boring.

One of the bands I used to work with used 4 MC202s both in the studio and on stage. They sounded pretty wimpy on their own, but we had them running a mighty modular system! Not too bad to program, but you needed your wits about you.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote kolakube:

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Mate me and you must have totally different tastes as I think the presets are shockingly bad. Still if everyone was the same life would be boring.

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Objectively they probably are bad... but I have a soft spot for Yazoo etc., and one or two of those sounds are instantly recognisable from Upstairs At Eric's, among others. It's only with the tinted spectacles of nostalgia that I like them. The Jupe has much better sounds in it, definitely.

When I've got the thing up and running again (blighter keeled over recently) I'm considering the Io upgrade. I've emailed the guy already and got some details. It does seem useful.

I too think the JP4 presets are woeful (although they come to life a little more if you plug a Boss FV-20 or FV-200 volume pedal into the VCF-sweep socket on the back, so you can sweep the filter when playing them).

The best JP4 sounds usually involve using the "bender" to crank the LFO speed into the audio range, whilst having it routed to the VCF or VCA, to introduce great metallic squalls of FM/AM sidebands into the sound, with 4VCO unison and the "ensemble" switched on.
If you tweak the trim pots inside the case for the ensemble to hit the sweet spot, it overdrives in a pleasing way when you're doing FM/AM and it sounds clawws.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I bought a Juno 6 today but only because I can't afford a Jupiter 4! I used to own a JP4, which I stupidly sold three years ago so I'll report back on how they compare. (I think I know the answer)

What we must remember is that whist the comparison was valid three/four years ago when they all cost about the same it is now a question of comparing synths that cost £350 (Juno 6) and and £1350 (ebay sold price for JP4 last month and going from the current prices not a one off)..........I reckon the Juno probably gives you 80% of the 'power', sound, tweakability and 'Rolandness' of a JP4 at about 30% of the price so probably a good deal -if only it had a random mode on the arp!!!!!

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Jonny

Quote feline1:

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I too think the JP4 presets are woeful

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On the whole I agree but if memory serves me right one of them was awesome! I'm sure "The Force" was used on the opening of Night Boat by Duran Duran..........Sounds fab!

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Jonny

Edited by fatbenelton (12/07/10 07:08 PM)

Quote:

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.I reckon the Juno probably gives you 80% of the 'power', sound, tweakability and 'Rolandness' of a JP4 at about 30% of the price so probably a good deal

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I honestly dont see it like that. The J4 and the 6/60/106 make totally different sounds that are good in there own right.

I think comparing the J4 with the 6/60/106 is like comparing apples to oranges. I like both, but there totally different tasting. Swap tasting with sounding in this instance.

As mentioned before in this thread the Juno is a very generic sounding instrument. What it does it does superb. Where as the J4 is a very unique sounding instrument. What it does is very hard to capture on other instruments.

I dont think there is a instrument on earth that does 80% of the J4.

Quote kolakube:

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Quote:

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.I reckon the Juno probably gives you 80% of the 'power', sound, tweakability and 'Rolandness' of a JP4 at about 30% of the price so probably a good deal

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I dont think there is a instrument on earth that does 80% of the J4.

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You may be right..I'll find out tonight!

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Jonny

Quote kolakube:

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As for the J4 presets. This has to be the worsed thing about the synth. Acctually no, the worsed thing is you cant copy over them

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With the Io kit you lose the presets I think - but gain more memories. Actually listen to the intro to Numan's 'I Dream of Wires' and it's basically the Voice preset with a longer attack and Random arpeggiator. Seeing as it's a longer attack this means that Numan must have *gasp* used the patch sheet to program the sound as you couldn't change the presets back then.

@ fatbenelton

I wouldn't let the J4 put you off the Juno 6. I have owned a 60 and a 106 and loved both.

I think you will disappoint yourself though if you try to make you Juno 6 sound like a Jupiter 4 and that is the only purpose you have bought it for. Then again if you tried to make a Jupiter 4 sound like a Juno 6 you'd also be disappointed.

Both are great. To be fair to the Juno though there a real work horse A synth you can use on every track. A J4 is far more unique sounding. As much as I love the sound it makes, it cant do much else. Perhaps a J4 is like the 303 or marmite. Love or hate.

I would happily make room for a juno to sit along side a J4. Id say the Juno 6/60 had a lot more in common with a Jupiter8. Hey, thats no bad thing!!

And if your getting a Juno 6 tonight you should be well exited. Id hate me pointing out its not a J4 clone to dull that experience for you. The juno's are superb value for money poly's.

Quote kolakube:

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I would happily make room for a juno to sit along side a J4. Id say the Juno 6/60 had a lot more in common with a Jupiter8.

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Ooh! I don't think I can let that go!

I used a Juno 6 for many years. Those DCOs have a twangy sound all their own - not a bad thing (unless it's your only polysynth and you grow heartily sick of it... ), but a very definite sound that the VCO-based synths don't exhibit.

My nephew still has a Juno 60 sitting in his attic, unused and unloved, but not for sale... Similarly a Sequential Pro-One in MINT condition

I have first dibs on 'em!

In your part of the world, as well, Kola.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote:

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My nephew still has a Juno 60 sitting in his attic, unused and unloved, but not for sale... Similarly a Sequential Pro-One in MINT condition

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Unused? Why wont he sell them if he doesn't want them? He could make a packet. Bet he'd get a grand each for unused absolute minimum.

It's not that he doesn't *want* them, but that he doesn't *use* them - an important difference. Hopefully one day he'll begin playing again, but for the moment they'll wait in the attic for him. It's a shame, but I can genuinely understand his reluctance to sell them.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I think there is a grain of truth in the assertion that the Juno 60 has at least something sonically in common with the JP8. Granted, it's a vasty simplified architecture but the filter circuit (i.e. the whole circuit, not just the chip) is as far as I'm aware the same as the 24dB filter from the JP8 and I am able to coax sounds with a similar tone to the JP8 from my Juno 60, albeit within the limitations of a single oscillator, shared envelope, no cross mod and so on. This is especially true in respect of resonance response (although it helps to mimic the action of a dedicated filter envelope with the cut-off slider to properly appreciate this). In that respect, I'd say it's closer to the JP8 that the so-called Super Jupiter module (which I also have) although of course that one does closely mimic the architecture of the JP8 so in that respect it has to be considered much closer overall.

I believe there is a mod available for the Juno to convert the filter to the alternative 12dB setting (whereas the JP8 could switch between the two).

Having said all that, I do emphasise that I am talking about a similarity in underlying tone only - the Juno is certainly no equivalent of the Jupiter 8 - but elements of its DNA do seem to be present.

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http://www.partyfearsthree.co.uk

That's interesting stuff, Steve. I've never had a JP-8 and an MKS-80 side by side, but IIRC the JP-8 sounded a bit less 'hard' than the Supe Jupes I have now. Can you confirm?

The Juno-6's filter was a very nice sounding device and made up a lot for the DCOs. I used to really like a resonant patch with negative envelope - bwwooiinnnngg!

I still dream of owning a JP-8, but at the prices they now command it will sadly have to remain a dream.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote:

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It's not that he doesn't *want* them, but that he doesn't *use* them - an important difference. Hopefully one day he'll begin playing again, but for the moment they'll wait in the attic for him. It's a shame, but I can genuinely understand his reluctance to sell them.

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If he hasn't used them since they were new thats some 25 years ago since they were produced.

Id say its safe to say he doesn't want them mate