http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE309uauyHg&feature=player_embedded

Will it be as exciting (yawn) as the Korg Kronos?

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

I know what it is... It will be a disaster sales wise for Roland.

Think along the lines of the Juno-D and Di and cross them with a V-Synth and tag the name of Jupiter on it.

I love the clever original marketing video that's been totally ripped from the Kronos hahah

I'm guessing Roland VariOs mk2 hahahah oh and throw in some old names to sell.. Roland planet Jupiter via 303 Juno

y'all can laugh but I know for a fact through my connections at Roland that this synthesizer will be amazing. Completely analogue with physical control over almost all parameters. It has a an old school sequencer, and arp features. It comes equipped with MIDI, obviously, but also control voltage and DIN-sync! Roland have begun to understand that their brand appeal lies in its heyday. They are trying to harness that.(but not in the Juno D kind of way).

As for the look, the early shots I've seen appear to indicate a full metal chassis with cherry wood side panels. The old Roland colour schemes of yesteryear are hinted at. It looks very much like a Jupiter 8 in size and style.

I've been told it will rrp at around £1700 and it will be followed by a rack version for £1200.

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I'm All Ears.

sike.

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I'm All Ears.

Are you for real??? I really hope so!!!

Overly excited since reading this:) Any idea on when more info will be available and possible sound/video demos?

Edited by Steve Morley (24/03/11 11:54 AM)

Quote ken long:

---

y'all can laugh but I know for a fact through my connections at Roland that this synthesizer will be amazing. Completely analogue with physical control over almost all parameters. It has a an old school sequencer, and arp features. It comes equipped with MIDI, obviously, but also control voltage and DIN-sync! Roland have begun to understand that their brand appeal lies in its heyday. They are trying to harness that.(but not in the Juno D kind of way).

As for the look, the early shots I've seen appear to indicate a full metal chassis with cherry wood side panels. The old Roland colour schemes of yesteryear are hinted at. It looks very much like a Jupiter 8 in size and style.

I've been told it will rrp at around £1700 and it will be followed by a rack version for £1200.

---

JUPITER-80

Quote Steve Morley:

---

Are you for real??? I really hope so!!!

Overly excited since reading this:) Any idea on when more info will be available and possible sound/video demos?

---

Quote ken long:

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sike

---

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I'm All Ears.

You're a very bad man Ken.

[pedant]I think it's "psyche" isn't it rather than "sike". As in "I psyched you out."[/pedant]

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote jellyjim:

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You're a very bad man Ken.

[pedant]I think it's "psyche" isn't it rather than "sike". As in "I psyched you out."[/pedant]

---

Sorry for that! Couldn't resist.

Sike and Psyche are interchangeable.

HTH.

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I'm All Ears.

Quote ken long:

---

y'all can laugh but I know for a fact through my connections at Roland that this synthesizer will be amazing. Completely analogue with physical control over almost all parameters. It has a an old school sequencer, and arp features. It comes equipped with MIDI, obviously, but also control voltage and DIN-sync! Roland have begun to understand that their brand appeal lies in its heyday. They are trying to harness that.(but not in the Juno D kind of way).

As for the look, the early shots I've seen appear to indicate a full metal chassis with cherry wood side panels. The old Roland colour schemes of yesteryear are hinted at. It looks very much like a Jupiter 8 in size and style.

I've been told it will rrp at around £1700 and it will be followed by a rack version for £1200.

---

One can only hope.. the only thing to have come out of the Roland labs in the last 10-15 years is disappointment



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote ken long:

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I've been told it will rrp at around £1700 and it will be followed by a rack version for £1200.

---

Wrong. Try again...

Quote Kwaidan:

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Think along the lines of the Juno-D and Di and cross them with a V-Synth and tag the name of Jupiter on it.

---

Close, but a bit negative.

Quote Chevytraveller:

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the only thing to have come out of the Roland labs in the last 10-15 years is disappointment

---

Hmm Keeno leads us to believe he is in the know LOL

Sounds more like an enthusiastic Roland rep or employee lol

To be honest I couldn't give a damn what they come out with although I can't wait and see how it will fail this time.
It won't make me a better musician or make me write better music, I'm skint and I have pretty much everything I need

Quote Kwaidan:

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I know what it is... It will be a disaster sales wise for Roland.

Think along the lines of the Juno-D and Di and cross them with a V-Synth and tag the name of Jupiter on it.

---

Slag it off before you've even heard it: that's what this industry really needs, attitudes like this.

Quote Chevytraveller:

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One can only hope.. the only thing to have come out of the Roland labs in the last 10-15 years is disappointment

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Utter nonsense.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Quote Kwaidan:

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I know what it is... It will be a disaster sales wise for Roland.

Think along the lines of the Juno-D and Di and cross them with a V-Synth and tag the name of Jupiter on it.

---

Slag it off before you've even heard it: that's what this industry really needs, attitudes like this.

---

No it doesn't but then again it doesn't really need the Korg Kronos either but they still made it. I think Kwaidan is saying "come on Roland, let's innovate not repackage." And if he isn't I certainly am!

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Unfortunately I have to agree that Roland which was once my ultimate favourite gear makers these days just turns out synths that seem to be aimed at the kiddy market rather than the pro or semi pro musicians/producer. It's not like they don't know how to do it! So a real analog synth with some balls would be a welcome change. And if it resembles a fraction of the sound produced by their classics would be a winner.

Don't get me wrong the V synth is an exception in my book but things like the Juno D and Gaia are not great at all. There is a good reason why people are still willing to part with huge amounts of cash for the old Roland gear. Hype alone would have worn off by now!

Edited by Steve Morley (24/03/11 01:52 PM)

Metamorphosis of a Legend - with a title like that i was expecting a little more info. Or ANY info for that matter. What a waste of someones time.
Come on Roland - more info please.

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.. is this thing on?

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Quote Chevytraveller:

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One can only hope.. the only thing to have come out of the Roland labs in the last 10-15 years is disappointment

---

Utter nonsense.

---

Really?.. so what have I missed since the JP80X0?.. more repackaged naff sounding romplers like the nu-Junos..

nothing much worthy of the Roland badge IMO

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

I just said the name of the thing it's going to be called the Jupiter-80.

Quote Kwaidan:

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I just said the name of the thing it's going to be called the Jupiter-80.

---

I see! Thanks Kwaidan. I thought you were 'taking the michael'.

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.. is this thing on?

Well with a name like Jupiter-80 it better be a monster synth! If not I fear they will have lost all credibility ha ha ha

Quote Steve Morley:

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Unfortunately I have to agree that Roland which was once my ultimate favourite gear makers these days just turns out synths that seem to be aimed at the kiddy market rather than the pro or semi pro musicians/producer. ...
There is a good reason why people are still willing to part with huge amounts of cash for the old Roland gear. Hype alone would have worn off by now!

---

I general I agree. Sadly. I haven't bought a new Roland device for at least 10 years. They don't listen to pro's IMO.

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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Sounds more like an enthusiastic Roland rep or employee lol

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Haha, neither I'm afraid!

Quote Stan:

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Metamorphosis of a Legend - with a title like that i was expecting a little more info. Or ANY info for that matter. What a waste of someones time.
Come on Roland - more info please.

---

There is no public info yet, it hasn't been announced. April 6th I believe. Patience...

One mystery is enough for any thread.
Maybe someone could post some pics or specs of this new beast!

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.. is this thing on?

Judging the teaser and whar I've seen on other forums it is likely agoing to be a V big dissapointment. Going on the last few synths they did it is unlikely that all of a sudden they have seen the light and make a REAL synth. A bit like Novation really who just can't get their act together and make a follow up to the Supernova. All you get these days are those cheap nasty plastic 'virtual' bits that just don't cut it. What is wrong with a metal casing, lots of controls, plenty of polyphony, multi timbral synths with plenty of audio outputs?? LOL

This is what's coming from Roland... Another repackaged V-Synth/Fantom-esque 76-note live performance keyboard.

Quote Kwaidan:

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This is what's coming from Roland... Another repackaged V-Synth/Fantom-esque 76-note live performance keyboard.

---

Oh ...

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Kwaidan:

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This is what's coming from Roland... Another repackaged V-Synth/Fantom-esque 76-note live performance keyboard.

---

"The upright bass was the most realistic I've ever heard."



I find the styling almost offensive...

RRP?

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I'm All Ears.

who cares :-(

I don't expect them to risk the business, but hey guys - a little imagination from the company who produced the D50, please

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arK music

Quote ken long:

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RRP?

---

$3000 - $4000

Is this a piss-take? Sorry I'm a bit slow...

Pretty rainbow colours if it's real. I was under the impression that Roland couldn't use the Jupiter name after the 80's because Sanyo copyrighted all the planet names - which is why the JP8000 wasn't a Jupe ...

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Quote Chevytraveller:

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One can only hope.. the only thing to have come out of the Roland labs in the last 10-15 years is disappointment

---

no hope.. yet more disappointment rains from the anus of Roland's R&D labs

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Roland is a great innovative firm that has created musical instruments that have shaped some pop music styles in the last 30 years (including jazz guitar, their "JC- Jazz Chorus" amps!).

On the other hand they are masters of repackaging and re-branding their products (Roland into Boss into Edirol) with little creative efforts..

BUT, I think people have been too hard on their latest keyboard effort BEFORE anyone has even heard it or tried it. The scant review reported here is actually, and potentially, very exiting: if they have found a 'clever' way to make an emulation of a real instrument interact with 'feelings' with the performer, the better! I can't wait to hear/play it! It could be 'revolutionary' indeed!

The saddest truth is that many people on these kind of blogs are mere 'art collectors' and nostalgics firmly routed to their past (youth). Do you really, really think that the world needs another 'true' analogue synth to make 'real' electronic music? What would you expect it to do produce: fatter pads? More souring lead lines? Deeper booming 808 BDs? Crucially, why? To re-record 'The final countdown' or 'Jump' more faithfully? Keith Emersons' Mimimoog virtuoso meanderings?

This tiny minority of nostalgics, can't they use some of the many boutique modular mono synths out there? Maybe a great software emulation, or the Nord Lead? ENOUGH of cheese analogue synths, please!
Luckily Roland appears to share this view! Innovation please, and a better and sophisticated interaction with the vast-improved quality sounds available nowadays seems to be a good step forward? Or not?



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www.bugiolacchi.com
Songwriter/guitarist

When I first saw the pic, for a moment I thought that they'd re-styled and updated the V-Synth. Now _that_ would have been a cool as funk thing to do - and I would have paid for it too (I kinda have a soft spot for it).

But a ROMpler based Jupiter?

Do me a lemon!!

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Quote bugiolacchi:

---

The saddest truth is that many people on these kind of blogs are mere 'art collectors' and nostalgics firmly routed to their past (youth). Do you really, really think that the world needs another 'true' analogue synth to make 'real' electronic music? What would you expect it to do produce: fatter pads? More souring lead lines? Deeper booming 808 BDs? Crucially, why? To re-record 'The final countdown' or 'Jump' more faithfully? Keith Emersons' Mimimoog virtuoso meanderings?

---

It's a good point, but it's not why I find this disappointing. No, I don't want, or expect, Roland to make another Jupiter8, and a metal analog synth with knobs on - those days are gone.

But it would be nice to get something *exciting* and sexy, like stuff used to be for me in the past. Maybe everything's been done, maybe I'm just not excitable any more - but I also can't see 16 year old kinds finding this stuff inspirational either.

I guess the bigger question is, leaving aside personal nostalgia and fantasy - is it possible to make asomething *new* and different and awesome as a keyboard instrument - or from now on is it forever destined to be various flavours of rompler, the occasional VA, and hammond and rhodes emulation instruments and pianos for those people playing out in bands?

The vast majority of keyboards these days are so bland looking, even if they sound great.

Are the exciting days over?

If Roland have come up with something that delivers new levels of realism and interaction and all the stuff that appears to be claimed, good for them but releasing it under the 'Jupiter' monicker is (IMO) a mistake because that name, that 'brand', that whiff of nostalgia is so closely associated very heavily with pure analogue goodness.

A modern, superb sounding VA, modeled on the Jupe's original circuits and laid out and styled like the original Jupiter 8 but with oodles of polyphony, multi-timbral, multi-effects, etc., which can sound exactly like an original Jupe (and an MKS80 and Jupiter 6 and JX3/8/10) but with new possibilities as well would have been a more appropriate move for the hard core, dewy eyed nostalgics ...

Much like Fairlight have done with their 30A - looks and works pretty much exactly like the original Fairlight, can sound exactly like it but offers a lot more besides. But, like the Fairlight 30A, it would (probably) have limited appeal and maybe, like the 30A, Roland could/should do a limited run, maybe making 10 a month for a year with the thing carrying a premium price. Dunno. But to use the 'Jupiter' heritage for what appears to be something of an 'intelligent' ROMpler doesn't feel right to me.... like Moog bringing out a ROMpler and calling it 'PolyMoog II' or somesuch.

This is quite possibly/probably a good/great new product with a lot of innovative technology inside and will probably sound superb but it's not, perhaps, what people expect of a synth bearing the name 'Roland Jupiter'.

Perhaps if Roland had released it with a different name, distancing the thing from the distinctly analogue Jupiter 8 heritage, people might be foaming over it. As it is, however good it is, I fear a lot of people (including those who have never played or even seen an original Jupiter 8) will be saying "Meh - it's not a Jupiter 8" and I am suspecting it's more of a branding and marketing problem than a lack of technological innovation.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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---

v.good

i like that you can play angry birds on it

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

As brilliant as your design is - Roland seems to have beaten you to it!
I assume that is real analogue gaffa tape -

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.. is this thing on?

ooohh!! humour can be so cruel when true!

does it have all the 3* walkthroughs built in?

(goes back to iPhone amid squawking and chuckling...)

steve

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arK music

Quote arkieboy:

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ooohh!! humour can be so cruel when true!

does it have all the 3* walkthroughs built in?

(goes back to iPhone amid squawking and chuckling...)

steve

---

have you played "little wings"? bit like being trapped in a mid 70s czechoslovakian state funded animation with only Royksopp for company - but kind of fun

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote hollowsun:

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If Roland have come up with something that delivers new levels of realism and interaction and all the stuff that appears to be claimed, good for them but releasing it under the 'Jupiter' monicker is (IMO) a mistake because that name, that 'brand', that whiff of nostalgia is so closely associated very heavily with pure analogue goodness.

A modern, superb sounding VA, modeled on the Jupe's original circuits and laid out and styled like the original Jupiter 8 but with oodles of polyphony, multi-timbral, multi-effects, etc., which can sound exactly like an original Jupe (and an MKS80 and Jupiter 6 and JX3/8/10) but with new possibilities as well would have been a more appropriate move for the hard core, dewy eyed nostalgics ...

Much like Fairlight have done with their 30A - looks and works pretty much exactly like the original Fairlight, can sound exactly like it but offers a lot more besides. But, like the Fairlight 30A, it would (probably) have limited appeal and maybe, like the 30A, Roland could/should do a limited run, maybe making 10 a month for a year with the thing carrying a premium price. Dunno. But to use the 'Jupiter' heritage for what appears to be something of an 'intelligent' ROMpler doesn't feel right to me.... like Moog bringing out a ROMpler and calling it 'PolyMoog II' or somesuch.

This is quite possibly/probably a good/great new product with a lot of innovative technology inside and will probably sound superb but it's not, perhaps, what people expect of a synth bearing the name 'Roland Jupiter'.

Perhaps if Roland had released it with a different name, distancing the thing from the distinctly analogue Jupiter 8 heritage, people might be foaming over it. As it is, however good it is, I fear a lot of people (including those who have never played or even seen an original Jupiter 8) will be saying "Meh - it's not a Jupiter 8" and I am suspecting it's more of a branding and marketing problem than a lack of technological innovation.

---

Steve nails it.

I'd like to try one out to be fair.

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I'm All Ears.

Only prob with this Jupiter-80 is, that it contains the sound engine from the SH-01 Gaia. And has less LFO waveforms. And the JP-80 is less powerful than the Fantom X or G. Plus it's more focused on Roland's SUPERnatural sounds than anything else.

And still comes with a hefty price tag.

I have a smattering of vintage gear, but a tour is looming and so I've just got a V-Synth for reliable sampling/analog emulation. I have to say it's brilliant. It's not a Jupiter; but it is a high quality sound engine, Variphrase is an innovative (and useful) technique and it's bristling with performance controls. It's also built like a tank and a joy to play.

It's a V2 so almost vintage.

Roland can do it - it's just not 1980 anymore.

Regards

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

If Roland are going to drum up interest by encouraging comparisons with past glories then they need to be prepared to stand or fall by that decision.

Of course we all wanted a fully analogue 'Jupiter 8 for now'. If Roland have any sense they MUST know that and must also know that it will only take a few disappointed obesessives on forums like this to see their new flagship holed below the waterline. If that happens to something bearing the Jupiter moniker then they are unlikely to get a second chance. Let's hope they've chosen wisely.

Whether they like it or not, by invoking the Jupiter name they are putting themselves up to be shot down. Sure, the number of us obsessed with the details of this kind of machinery is small, but dirt sticks and we are likely the very people Roland need to convince very early on if this new device is going to carry the Jupiter name's Midas touch.

I'll wait until I can spend some time with one of these before I decide what I think of it.

My first impressions don't have me beating at the shop door with money in my fist...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I just hope that the pictures going around are not the real deal. Looks cheap and empty to me:(
I don't expect anything good from Roland these days so maybe I will be pleasantly suprised LOL.

Quote jellyjim:

---

have you played "little wings"? bit like being trapped in a mid 70s czechoslovakian state funded animation with only Royksopp for company - but kind of fun

---

dip-a-dip yahooo!!! zzzzzzz

I'll get to island 5 soon...

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arK music

Now Official

Howard Jones video is telling.

I must say, I'd like to try one out.

Have we got a RRP yet?

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I'm All Ears.

Semi-weighted keys. Noooooo! Rats, rats, rats!!!!

I now hope I *don't* like this thing, or I'm then waiting for the non-weighted 5-octave version!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote ken long:

---

Howard Jones video is telling.

---

It's Roland going "Oh, a HoJo endorsement would add some credibility to the Jupiter name" and it seemed he had to work a bit to come up with something nice to say about the new keyboard, without lamenting the awesomeness of the old JP8 too hard.

He wasn't exactly gushing about the '80 - and that was presumably the best clip Roland could use...

Plus (as a massive HoJo fan of the past) his older stuff to me sounds way better than his more softsynthy/romplerey recent stuff.

So yes, it's "telling" that Roland UK marketing wanted him on board, and it's telling that it's not exactly gonna be a JP8 replacement for him, so...

Note: I tried to watch the other video, but they lost me as soon as they mentioned "Dedicated buttons for piano, brass, strings sounds..." etc. What is this - a Jupiter for the modern Vicar? Bah...

Quote desmond:

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Note: I tried to watch the other video, but they lost me as soon as they mentioned "Dedicated buttons for piano, brass, strings sounds..." etc. What is this - a Jupiter for the modern Vicar? Bah...

---

...and it's only one step from there to presets called 'Cosmic Wow' and 'Funny Cat', at which point the company directors can be arrested under the 'Home Organ and Lounge Music Act 1976'.

A Jupiter with preset names. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Wow this thing sounds terrible in those demos, those flutes, pianos and pads sound gash..they sound so errm 90's work station hahah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOdk44YmFJQ&feature=player_embedded

I think the V-Synth was/is a great synth and probs the only good think Roland still make but this thing...other than using the JP name to trick some people into buying one before playing it sounds no different to me than a Triton or what ever else...actually the Tritity is still a good board and fitted with the Moss expansion board is pretty damn good value for money...but then it's not a Jupiter ;-)

Those pesky dedicated preset buttons made an appearance before on the lovely Juno D and RS9..but damn they weren't funky colours and on a Jupiter lol



The Juno D is totally fresh and nothing to do with that RS9, it's much more phat and OG than my 106


Edited by vinyl_junkie (06/04/11 12:27 PM)

Yeah major shot in the foot here Roland surely?! It might well be a great keyboard but to stick the Jupiter badge on it for the sake of it is just lamer than lamer.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Hmmm... as a comment on VJ's Youtube vid said:

Its Euro 3000. Get a real Jup 8 for that kind of money.

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I'm All Ears.

anyway, on a brighter note...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blrwSvtu8pg

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Disappointed. Looks like an evolved V-Synth wearing period costume for the wrong gender.

The article referenced by Kwaidan states that Roland founder Mr Kakehashi said “It wasn’t until now that he felt ready to put this name on an instrument again”. I was always under the impression, as others have suggested, that Roland no longer had the rights to the ‘Jupiter’ name or it would have been on the JP-8000. Indeed, the JP-8000 would have been a more credible bearer of the ‘Jupiter’ name.

I’ve no doubt that the Jupiter-80 will do what it does brilliantly, but what it does, does not identify it as a ‘Jupiter’. To my mind it’s another ‘jack-of-all-trades’ workstation (less sequencer), not a master of pure synthesis like the Jupiter 8 was. The name ‘Jupiter-80’, for me, conjures up images of a pure synth for the 21st century which combines analogue oscillators with modern technology for the purest sound combined with the greatest flexibility and stability. What we actually have is another generic pub-singer’s backing keyboard, albeit a very good one.

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www.mitchthompson.co.uk

I think its fair to say from the totally pants modern day 'Junos" and 'SHs" that any modern day "jupiter" will be utter toss

LOL from the few videos I have seen this is another utter shite board..Ah well, at least I won't make the mistake again to get excited when Roland announces a new synth. Guess they made enough oldies to keep me happy with anyways ha ha

I always think it amazing how a once world leader and creator of so many genres of dance music are reduced to this.

I really don't mind them making modern day synths that are not analogue.
But what I really object to is tarnishing the name of classics such as a Juno/Jupiter/SH.


Roland have constantly been out of touch with the market since the boom of electronic dance music.

To be fair the 808/909/303 were all just accidents. The 808 and 909 were designed to sound like real drums and failed miserably. The 303 a bass guitar synth!

I remember Roland commenting on the popularity of the 303 in around 93 in a music mag. Think it was FM. FM asked them would they make any more due to the renewed interest. "No" was the answer as they didn't believe there was a demand and also the JD800 could sound like a 303 - Yeah right!! Talk about out of touch!!!

Being so out of touch with the market back then allowed Novation to release the Bass Station and get a footing that still sees them in business today.

I remember a Deep Bass Nine 303 clone too and was it a freebass 303 or something, both of which were a success. This continues today with the likes of the Acidlabs and the Xox box. So a load of money still exchanging hands thanks to Roland's lack of grip on reality. How I wish the taxman was so easy to ignore such easy earnings.

All of these companies made a profit out of Roland's lack of being it touch with the demands of the consumer and this was as far back as '93!

So, due to the above and the happy accident 808/909/303 is it not fair to say Roland have not really made a decent synth on purpose since the early 80s a la Juno, JX's and Jupiter's and SH's.

I did like the JP8000 mind and know the V Synth gets a good thumbs up too. But two synths since 85 is not really cutting the mustard.

As for the Jupiter 80 at £2500. Id much rather have 6 x Juno 106's at £400 each!!

Have to agree with you there. The JD-800 served me well for a long time:) But I never managed to get it sound anywhere close to the 303 LOL
Love the jokes they come up with there at Roland!
Never understood how they failed to read the market, even today so many people still buy gear that claims to sound like the 909/808/303. How on earth can you ignore that and as a company let others take the money? They could easily reproduce the originals for a decent price and ship tons as most people would still rather have an original over a clone.
Think I will never get the Roland way of thinking LOL

I really like the V-Synth, if I win the lottery I'm sure one will find it's way into my studio.

Quote Steve Morley:

---

Have to agree with you there. The JD-800 served me well for a long time:) But I never managed to get it sound anywhere close to the 303 LOL
Love the jokes they come up with there at Roland!
Never understood how they failed to read the market, even today so many people still buy gear that claims to sound like the 909/808/303. How on earth can you ignore that and as a company let others take the money? They could easily reproduce the originals for a decent price and ship tons as most people would still rather have an original over a clone.
Think I will never get the Roland way of thinking LOL

I really like the V-Synth, if I win the lottery I'm sure one will find it's way into my studio.

---

Well they did respond to the market by pretty much inventing the "groove box" format with the MC and to some extent the SP series. The MC303 featured 808, 909, 303 and Juno sounds. They also took on the Akai MPC with the MV8000 and with considerable success to boot.

They've never been ignorant of their heritage they just chose not to respond to it in any way other than ROMplers or VAs.

And what you see coming from Roland now is tailored to some extent the market as a whole but also to their direction within it. It's hard to compete with software synths in the studio so Roland chose to target the market for live instruments, hence these massive ROMplers. Roland sell bucket loads of this stuff to markets that we relatively Godless Europeans don't think about much such as "Places of Worship" and schools that are actually properly equipped.

I am surprised they haven't responded to the Monotron though. But perhaps Korg know something we don't. Maybe it's a loss leader? Maybe Korg haven't made significant money on the Monotron. It's an exercise in brand strengthening and a "gateway product" to other more profitable Korg gear.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Edited by jellyjim (27/04/11 11:53 AM)

Yeah but Jim I honestly think the MC303 was just another Jupiter 80.

Sure it was great in its own right but a 303 it wasn't. Much like the Jupiter 80 will be no 4, 6 or 8.

Honestly, if ROland were to start remanufacturing the TB303 again exactly how it was they would be able to charge £1000 - £1500 and no doubt but the far cheaper (just as good clones) XoX out of business.

Their marketing strategists do not seem to understand how sought after the Roland classics really are still to this day.

Quote kolakube:

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Their marketing strategists do not seem to understand how sought after the Roland classics really are still to this day.

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Of course they do. They see global sales returns of not just their products but the industry's. Analogue synths are minority and niche. They're even minority in a minority sector and Roland know where their market is ... it's not making expensive analogue synths for a tiny market but making stuff that sells in quantity to big markets like church and cover bands and C&W bands, etc., people who WILL buy hardware, who possibly don't use software (and would never dream of doing so live), people who just want good piano, Rhodes, organs, clavs, strings, brass, maybe bass and guitar and a few lead line sounds. Those people are quite likely foaming over the new Jupiter 80 (although the new Korg Kronos possibly offers more for them). The small minority of people who really want and will pay for proper analogue have no end of choice and as long as people like Dave Smith and Moog and synthesisers.com and Doepfer, etc., are satisfying the 'boutique' market, there's no need for the big manufacturers to bother - they can focus on their core, larger mainstream market which is very different to the market that was there when Roland were making their 'classics'. There's FAR more to this business than beatz orientated dance music which is comparatively small in the overall scheme of things!

Roland's only 'mistake' (IMO) is using the 'Jupiter' name for it in the same way as if Moog released a ROMpler and called it 'PolyMoog II'!

But on the other hand, threads discussing this are all over the forums so they're getting a fair bit of free publicity out of it! That said, it's the same half dozen regulars on each forum talking about it and whilst it generates pages and pages of wibble, it probably only amounts to a few hundred actual people.

Besides, if Roland DID release an all analogue poly and called it 'Jupiter XX', the forums would no doubt be full of threads about how it doesn't sound as good as the original (and likely mostly from people who've never played an original!). Roland are on a hiding to nothing whatever they do.

So the Jupiter 80's not analogue. So what? If you want a modern, true analogue poly, buy a Prophet 08. Save yourself a £grand as well!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Everything you say is correct Hollowsun - a proper appraisal of the market.
The current obsession with 'fat analogue' is more than catered for by other companies - although there is perhaps a gap in the market for a less expensive poly, along the lines of a 106 / polysix maybe.

The funny thing is if you check youtube videos of people testing all this fabulous boutique gear, you get nothing but bad Chris Franke impressions, or acid loops. I cant find a good demo of the new SEM anywere - i.e someone actually playing it.

It fun to laugh at these 'others', the cruise ship musicians that apparently these new keyboards or aimed at, but what can be done with 'realistic' sounds can be just as entertaining as noodling with step sequencers....!!!!


O.T.T 'workstation' workout!!!

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Hollow Sun

I cant understand why if a company knows a profit is to be made would not take advantage of that.

Surely if they released a replica TB303 with MIDI even on a limited run (Much like Akai did with the Ltd edition of the MPC3000) it would literally fly out of the door?

Why would a company ignore this? Why not set up another small company much like Boss and cater for this separately?

Quote kolakube:

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Hollow Sun

I cant understand why if a company knows a profit is to be made would not take advantage of that.

Surely if they released a replica TB303 with MIDI even on a limited run (Much like Akai did with the Ltd edition of the MPC3000) it would literally fly out of the door?

Why would a company ignore this? Why not set up another small company much like Boss and cater for this separately?

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Something to bear in mind when understanding Roland's reluctance to rebuild the 303 is that they have rebuilt factories and optimised them for very different manufacturing processes than the methods used for assembling units like the 303.
To re-tool and be able to build something that "primitive" again would be very expensive for Roland to do and the business model/cost benefit for a large company just doesn't add up.
Small companies can move swiftly and produce small numbers for market demand, but there would need to be a sustainable and significant market to justify a large company to change tack in such a way.. Korg have clearly managed to do something (with the monotron) but the costs to a large company must have been significant and it will be worth watching to see if Korg win or lose with this brave strategy



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

SO what we all are saying is...

"Jupiter8's are awesome."

Well... duh...

(Having a minor JP8 obsession currently.)

Quote desmond:

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SO what we all are saying is...

"Jupiter8's are awesome."

Well... duh...

(Having a minor JP8 obsession currently.)

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Did you see my Jupiter 6 post? allow me to summarise In bullet points ...

• I heard one
• It sounded amazing

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

A lot of the cost in manufacturing is to do with setting up Procurement, Quality ,invetory management (SAP etc) Test Engineering , packing etc , which Roland would have in place.
The through hole components on the original 303 would be replaced by surface mount , which roland produce in their 1000's - a Fantom or V-synth still have many discrete components.

I imagine the major cost would be in the amount of RnD needed to create custom ASICs for the Oscillator and filter , but i'm sure this would be offset by the positive publicity a remake of the 303 would bring.

I don't think the Monotron and Montribe have done Korg any harm ...........even if they make a small loss.

Quote pocklefo:

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I don't think the Monotron and Montribe have done Korg any harm ...........even if they make a small loss.

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Why do you think they are making a small loss? They are selling by the bucketload, at least the monotron has been, and they look dirt cheap to manufacture...

You are probably correct as I think the Montron has sold well enough for Korg to expand it into the Monotribe, but these are relatively small single oscillator projects, with a low(ish) purchase price.

I'm not sure Korg would make a new Polysix or even a MS-20, for the same reason Roland would never risk a new JP8 or even Juno 6, but I could see a simple instrument like a 303 as possible - simple osc , no modulation, simple envelope etc

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Something to bear in mind when understanding Roland's reluctance to rebuild the 303 is that they have rebuilt factories and optimised them for very different manufacturing processes than the methods used for assembling units like the 303.
To re-tool and be able to build something that "primitive" again would be very expensive for Roland to do and the business model/cost benefit for a large company just doesn't add up.

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Actually your just talking a load of crap. Roland did make a new prototype 303 during the JP-80's original development. It was a prototype along with two other prototype units. Unfortunately i was told that these 3 units including the 303 will never see the light of day.

But prototype is not production run and usually differ quite a bit from the final product....sure any one can build a 303 clone out of some breadboard and bits

Quote Kwaidan:

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Actually your just talking a load of crap. Roland did make a new prototype 303 during the JP-80's original development. It was a prototype along with two other prototype units. Unfortunately i was told that these 3 units including the 303 will never see the light of day.

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And that's evidence that I'm talking crap?..
Anyone can produce prototypes for a price.. that's when they decide if the concept is worth scaling up to full production..
it's quite likely that the 3 prototypes were a failure in some way and weren't worth mass-producing otherwise why would they have even produced prototypes?..

maybe spend some time thinking through your argument in future before you decide to get abusive

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Anyone can produce prototypes for a price.. that's when they decide if the concept is worth scaling up to full production.. it's quite likely that the 3 prototypes were a failure in some way and weren't worth mass-producing otherwise why would they have even produced prototypes?..

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See you have no idea. These 3 prototypes were shelved because Roland in Japan said no. Not because they were a failure. If they got to working prototype versions then they were scheduled to be released at some point.

Anyway the other two prototypes were already established Roland classics, work out for yourself what they were.

Quote Kwaidan:

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Quote Chevytraveller:

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Anyone can produce prototypes for a price.. that's when they decide if the concept is worth scaling up to full production.. it's quite likely that the 3 prototypes were a failure in some way and weren't worth mass-producing otherwise why would they have even produced prototypes?..

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See you have no idea. These 3 prototypes were shelved because Roland in Japan said no. Not because they were a failure. If they got to working prototype versions then they were scheduled to be released at some point.

Anyway the other two prototypes were already established Roland classics, work out for yourself what they were.

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What I would really like to know is...How do YOU know all this?
Sounds a little fishy as all R&D is done in Japan anyways?

Kwaidan,

Little harsh with Chevvy there.

You must work for Roland to know all that. I can find nothing to back up that a 303 prototype was made or even considered by Roland so are you leaking trade secrets here?

Also if what your saying is true Chevvy is merely commenting on what he knows of the current industry. How could he know such secrets to include in his reply. Its harsh to say he's talking crap what would imply deliberately misleading people.

So how do you know what you claim to know because lets face it, I could know all about Roland UK making an new 101 and spout it like it were true, but that would sort of make me a troll.

Please don't take this the wrong way or offensively. Id just like to know how you know such guarded information as a fact.

Quote jellyjim:

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Quote Steve Morley:

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Have to agree with you there. The JD-800 served me well for a long time:) But I never managed to get it sound anywhere close to the 303 LOL
Love the jokes they come up with there at Roland!
Never understood how they failed to read the market, even today so many people still buy gear that claims to sound like the 909/808/303. How on earth can you ignore that and as a company let others take the money? They could easily reproduce the originals for a decent price and ship tons as most people would still rather have an original over a clone.
Think I will never get the Roland way of thinking LOL

I really like the V-Synth, if I win the lottery I'm sure one will find it's way into my studio.

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Well they did respond to the market by pretty much inventing the "groove box" format with the MC and to some extent the SP series. The MC303 featured 808, 909, 303 and Juno sounds. They also took on the Akai MPC with the MV8000 and with considerable success to boot.

They've never been ignorant of their heritage they just chose not to respond to it in any way other than ROMplers or VAs.

And what you see coming from Roland now is tailored to some extent the market as a whole but also to their direction within it. It's hard to compete with software synths in the studio so Roland chose to target the market for live instruments, hence these massive ROMplers. Roland sell bucket loads of this stuff to markets that we relatively Godless Europeans don't think about much such as "Places of Worship" and schools that are actually properly equipped.

I am surprised they haven't responded to the Monotron though. But perhaps Korg know something we don't. Maybe it's a loss leader? Maybe Korg haven't made significant money on the Monotron. It's an exercise in brand strengthening and a "gateway product" to other more profitable Korg gear.

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Sorry but I can't call the MC-303 even a half decent sounding machine. It sounds nothing like the real deal it is supposed to be sounding like, and let's be honest how could it? It was another product designed to have the newer generation believe it sounds just like the classics and that way quickly cash in on that.
I got tons of plugs and some va's all carrying 'sounds' from classic synths but they all have one thing in common - they really don't cut it.
Just put a 106 or Alpha 2 with no FX and EQ against one of those replicating the sound and you will be shocked by the difference.

Roland has indeed never let us forget about their past, at every lauch of something new they shout about it. Unfortunately what then gets released has nothing to do with their glorious past.
By using your past and then doing something totally different you raise expectations you will never meet and therefore people are going to be dissapointed. Not very bright if you like customers to keep coming back.

From your post I see you measure success with money, I measure it with quality. It is simple, I found the Jupiter-80 a bit of a joke and put my money now nicely to mister MOOG and ordered a Voyager Rack:)

Quote:

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I got tons of plugs and some va's all carrying 'sounds' from classic synths but they all have one thing in common - they really don't cut it.

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aw man!! I feel a signiture coming on. haha,

comment of the month award goes to Steve Morley

Quote:

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Just put a 106 or Alpha 2 with no FX and EQ against one of those replicating the sound and you will be shocked by the difference.

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True! My humble Juno 6 literally blows the VST Jupiter 8 out of the water.

There really is no comparison. One has heart and soul the other is dull and sterile.

The only way to get the Jupiter 8 to sound even slightly close as my bone dry Juno 6 is to inflate it with EQ, compression, Delay and top notch reverbs. But then stickm all that on my dry Juno 6 and it obliterates again.

All VSTs to me sound like real analogue going through a dimension and soul removal plug in and a HPF.

VST and hardware VAs are the antichrist of the sound source world

Convenient but at what price??

Quote kolakube:

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Quote:

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Just put a 106 or Alpha 2 with no FX and EQ against one of those replicating the sound and you will be shocked by the difference.

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True! My humble Juno 6 literally blows the VST Jupiter 8 out of the water.

There really is no comparison. One has heart and soul the other is dull and sterile.

The only way to get the Jupiter 8 to sound even slightly close as my bone dry Juno 6 is to inflate it with EQ, compression, Delay and top notch reverbs. But then stickm all that on my dry Juno 6 and it obliterates again.

All VSTs to me sound like real analogue going through a dimension and soul removal plug in and a HPF.

VST and hardware VAs are the antichrist of the sound source world

Convenient but at what price??

---

How are they even convenient? A great way to waste hours of inspiration free, enthusiasm killing misery which almost convinces you that you will really never make a piece of music that's worth anything in this world!

Roland are a disgrace for the years (decades) of milking their great legacy while still banging out their tired va/pcm yawnfests. Add arteria to the wall of shame too. Yamaha should sue them out of business for tainting its great cs80 name with their pale plastic software imitation.

If there were a few more people who were honest with themselves in this industry Roland should be taken to trading standards and have these 'juno', 'jupiter' '303' badges ripped right off them.

/rant

Quote Steve Morley:

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Sorry but I can't call the MC-303 even a half decent sounding machine.

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I never said it was. I just said it was their response to the popularity of their heritage. I think the MC303 is a nasty little ROMpler with an Ok-ish interface.

Quote Steve Morley:

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Roland has indeed never let us forget about their past, at every lauch of something new they shout about it. Unfortunately what then gets released has nothing to do with their glorious past.

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I agree

Quote Steve Morley:

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From your post I see you measure success with money,

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I do nothing of the kind and I find the suggestion very offensive! Consider your virtual wrists slapped!

Roland do think like that though and they always did. Roland aren't in business to pander to your analogue fantasies. They're in business to shift keyboards to the average musician.

Quote:

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I measure it with quality. It is simple, I found the Jupiter-80 a bit of a joke and put my money now nicely to mister MOOG and ordered a Voyager Rack:)

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Good for you. So why do you care what Roland does? I don't. I've got a Moog LP, a MeeBlip, a Monotron and various synthesisers I built myself.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Kwaidan:

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Quote Chevytraveller:

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Something to bear in mind when understanding Roland's reluctance to rebuild the 303 is that they have rebuilt factories and optimised them for very different manufacturing processes than the methods used for assembling units like the 303.
To re-tool and be able to build something that "primitive" again would be very expensive for Roland to do and the business model/cost benefit for a large company just doesn't add up.

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Actually your just talking a load of crap. Roland did make a new prototype 303 during the JP-80's original development. It was a prototype along with two other prototype units. Unfortunately i was told that these 3 units including the 303 will never see the light of day.

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Well "retooling" in manufacturing is a real phenomena so it might not be true but it is possible.

Yes how do you know all this Kwaidan?

He might be telling the truth folks. He was first with the JP80 news.

Kwaidan, proof or I call "bullshit"

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote jellyjim:

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So why do you care what Roland does? I don't.

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Well I do. But not that much. It doesn't make me froth at the mouth.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote:

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How are they even convenient?

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Oh they are convenient mate. Instant recall for one, only need lug a laptop around instead of a flightcased synth that will get a pint spilt on it etc etc.
Also they never break and can be constantly updated.

....But thats where any plus points absolutely end for me and then the scales tip, nay, plummet the other way.

VSTs all sound the same!

I mean get a Jupiter 8 and play it along side a Mini Moog. Or lets not go nuts, lets just sit a 101 next to a SQ80. They sound totally different. All different innards and convertors and such. Even the 303 sound different to the 101 and there quite similar really. Even a 303 will sound different to another 303 marginally!!

Where as a VST Jupiter on a PC sounds exactly like a VST Minimoog on a PC. Thats sort of missing a huuuuuge part of the process.

Also I find them so dull to use. I much prefer ownership or a tangible piece of kit.

Id much rather use a JP8000 over a VST twice as powerful even though the sound will be similar. I just like touchy feely.

The above two points alone are more than enough justification for me.

To tie back in with this thread id much rather have a Jupiter 80 than a VST Jupiter 8. And thats saying something.

I think what rubs people up the wrong way even more with Roland is the inability to even make a good VA now days...lets not beat around the bush here but can any one think of anything noteworthy in the VA line up since the JP-8000/8080? Nope? Thought so...I won't mention the V-Synth as I put that in a different league (I do like it)

If they spent some time in developing a great new VA that doesn't have to rely on some old model number or badly recycled JP technology to be honest they would have a hit...analogue or not, if the thing would sound great and have enough hands on control etc...people will buy it and they wont have to rely on tricking young kids into buying them with their legacy names

I can't think of any decent VA's of late to be honest from any manufacturer...Novation with the UltraFailure, man £500 is a rip off cos you can buy a SuperNova2 for less which is a hella lot more synth for your cash..and cos the UltraNova just recycles the supernova...they pretty much sound the same

I care what Roland does.

There modern day offerings are sacrilege to me. Like someone insulting my religion!

Good point VJ with the Ultrnova. WHat a load of shite!!

I mean the original Nova was a VA. So then they try to remake that and make a balls of it. Its like a cut down Monotimbral Nova and twice the second hand price.

Who researches this crap?

The reason I care about what Roland does is fairly simple - they are one of the very few companies that could make modern day analogue synths that sound great at a decent price. Every synth has it's own character and if you can't find/afford something like a Jupiter 8 then there is nothing really to replace it with.

Maybe they could have a sub division re issuing the classics build on order:)) Imagine £1200 for a new original TB-303!! At least you don't have to worry it might break down on you after using it twice.
I understand they are a business and it is about making money, but I think that it would buy them a lot of credit and new/re turning customers if they did something like that.

By the way sorry if I sounded a little harsh about the success related to money comment. It came out a bit wrong LOL

Quote:

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Maybe they could have a sub division re issuing the classics build on order:)) Imagine £1200 for a new original TB-303!!

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Thats exactly what I said earlier on mate.

Roland can make another company like Boss or even have them build under licence by an actual company willing to give it a go.

Id dont buy this 'Roland are too big a company" to want to cash in a a brand new replica TB303 for £1250.

People have wanted the 303s 8078s etc rebuilt since the early 90s. That demand has not gone away in 20 odd years. Just as Xox!! THere is money to be made and a huge gap in the market.

Just make a limited run of 1000 for goodness sake!!! As long as they were EXACT replicas they'd go for a bomb!!

Quote kolakube:

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Who researches this crap?

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Thinking about it, I think it's just us getting old lol The market changed.
Novation was/is? a company that's pretty with it in terms of what people want, right from when they kick started the craze with the BassStation through to the V-Station VST and now to fancy controllers and all that jazz

From their research it must of been clear kids don't care for too many knobs but instead USB, auto map features, integration with DAW's and 1 billion presets arranged in cool categories such as "DubStep Bass" and "killer" leads lol

And to be fair to Novation...It was VERY hard to re-packidge any of their virtual analogue synths other than giving them a fresh heart (sound engine) cos in terms of layout/features they were perfect the first time round...how else can you re-package something that's got such great design...so instead let's take the K-Station..take a bunch of ish off it and add a bunch of cr*p kids want now days like a audio interface, USB and all the other stuff I said ;-)
I wish they changed their sound engine though...VA Novas always sounded so plastic to me..I do have a lot of respect for Chris Huggett though...not just cos he worked for Akai on those monumental samplers or made the Wasp either hahahah

Edited by vinyl_junkie (28/04/11 10:17 AM)

Quote Steve Morley:

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The reason I care about what Roland does is fairly simple - they are one of the very few companies that could make modern day analogue synths that sound great at a decent price.

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But maybe they can't?

Quote:

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Every synth has it's own character and if you can't find/afford something like a Jupiter 8 then there is nothing really to replace it with.

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That is a real point. These instruments will all be lost one day and their sounds with them.

Quote:

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Maybe they could have a sub division re issuing the classics build on order:)) Imagine £1200 for a new original TB-303!! At least you don't have to worry it might break down on you after using it twice.

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But would it be £1200? I know people are manufacturing 303 clones at much lower price points but they don't have the overheads of Roland. There comes a point when a company is so large that it can't make massive changes in direction unless, as you suggest, they have a sub-division or some such.

But you know then again ... look what Moog did with the Taurus re-issues. They updated it and did it in limited numbers checking the market interest first.

Quote:

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I understand they are a business and it is about making money, but I think that it would buy them a lot of credit and new/re turning customers if they did something like that.

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Yes it would do them good to honour rather than plunder their heritage! I love Korg for doing the Monotron and Monotribe. Korg make me feel all warm and fuzzy. Roland make me feel all worn and muddy!

Quote:

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By the way sorry if I sounded a little harsh about the success related to money comment. It came out a bit wrong LOL

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Forgiven x

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote kolakube:

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VSTs all sound the same!

I mean get a Jupiter 8 and play it along side a Mini Moog. Or lets not go nuts, lets just sit a 101 next to a SQ80. They sound totally different.

---

VSTis may not be so inspiring to you, but they certainly don’t all sound the same.

Put JP8V at the side of MiniMonsta and they don’t sound the same any more than the hardware does.

But why such a desire to define things as ‘good’ or ‘bad’? It seems to me more productive to simply pick and choose the tools that do the job for you from the incredibly rich source we have at our disposal. For me that’s everything from a 1950s microphone to a 2011 VSTi and everything between. If restricting your palette inspires you, then good for you, but it needs no justification on the basis that ‘all VSTis are rubbish’.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote kolakube:

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Just make a limited run of 1000 for goodness sake!!! As long as they were EXACT replicas they'd go for a bomb!!

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It's true. There'd be a sweet spot obviously but if Roland released 1000 TB303 re-issues I reckon they could pretty much charge what they wanted. I reckon they'd clear 1000 at £2000 a pop no problem. There has to be 1000 people worldwide prepared to pay that.

But what return could they respect? God knows.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote The Elf:

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Quote kolakube:

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VSTs all sound the same!

I mean get a Jupiter 8 and play it along side a Mini Moog. Or lets not go nuts, lets just sit a 101 next to a SQ80. They sound totally different.

---

VSTis may not be so inspiring to you, but they certainly don’t all sound the same.

Put JP8V at the side of MiniMonsta and they don’t sound the same any more than the hardware does.

But why such a desire to define things as ‘good’ or ‘bad’? It seems to me more productive to simply pick and choose the tools that do the job for you from the incredibly rich source we have at our disposal. For me that’s everything from a 1950s microphone to a 2011 VSTi and everything between. If restricting your palette inspires you, then good for you, but it needs no justification on the basis that ‘all VSTis are rubbish’.

---

I agree. I think it's just better for the hardware/analogue heads to admit there's no rhyme or reason to their obsession.

In the immortal words of the great and sensuous American poet Mary Oliver

"Let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

Analogue synths. Phwoar! Arooga! Arooga! Hubba-hubba etc

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote kolakube:

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Kwaidan,

You must work for Roland to know all that. I can find nothing to back up that a 303 prototype was made or even considered by Roland so are you leaking trade secrets here?

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I don't work for Roland, i have good contacts and these 3 prototype units were also confirmed to me by a Roland engineer who was involved with the JP-80 from the very beginning.

You won't find anything on the internet relating to this. The JP-80 wasn't really a trade secret it's been in development since early last year. And these prototypes are not trade secrets. Simply because there will be no photos, no videos, they will be simply stored away beside the rest of the unreleased prototypes Roland has developed.

Anyway who cares, Roland have done themselves in. Plenty of other machines out there to fill the gaps in.


Kwaidan (Japanese) = Ghost Story

Quote Kwaidan:

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Quote kolakube:

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Kwaidan,

You must work for Roland to know all that. I can find nothing to back up that a 303 prototype was made or even considered by Roland so are you leaking trade secrets here?

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I don't work for Roland, i have good contacts and these 3 prototype units were also confirmed to me by a Roland engineer who was involved with the JP-80 from the very beginning.

You won't find anything on the internet relating to this. The JP-80 wasn't really a trade secret it's been in development since early last year. And these prototypes are not trade secrets. Simply because there will be no photos, no videos, they will be simply stored away beside the rest of the unreleased prototypes Roland has developed.

Anyway who cares, Roland have done themselves in. Plenty of other machines out there to fill the gaps in.


Kwaidan (Japanese) = Ghost Story

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Thanks for sharing the info. Do you know why they decided against it?

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Kwaidan:

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See you have no idea. These 3 prototypes were shelved because Roland in Japan said no. Not because they were a failure. If they got to working prototype versions then they were scheduled to be released at some point.

Anyway the other two prototypes were already established Roland classics, work out for yourself what they were.

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You seem to be the one with no idea.. either with manners or the meaning of words.

You seem to know even less about the process of manufacture in large companies or the complexities of bringing a product to market.
Just because you have a friend(and I suspect only 1) does not mean you have an understanding of the processes and politics of large corporations
If they were a success, then they would have been produced.. they was clearly a reason that they weren't.
That reason may have been technical or it may have been political, but the project was still clearly unsuccessful or we would be seeing the all new 303 now.

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

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VSTis may not be so inspiring to you, but they certainly don’t all sound the same.

Put JP8V at the side of MiniMonsta and they don’t sound the same any more than the hardware does.

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How can they not sound the same Elf? There all from the same single sound card with the exact same convertors.

Sure one may have three virtual oscillators and the other two meaning different types of sound can be made but they still all have the same PC soundcard colour as they all come from the same PC soundcard

Unless im wrong in which case they all just sound utterly bland to me but in different ways.

Or then again it may be psychological. I may fiddle with a Juno, cream my pants and then think it sounds better because of this because im playing a real instrument. Similarly I may nod off when I twiddle with a mouse and keyboard.

What ever the reason though, my juno 6 pee's all over the VST Jupiter IMHO. There is no comparison really. THere not even on the same map never ind part of the same race.

I can see why people use VSTs for convenience like I outlined above, but sound quality? No way. Experience, defiantly not. (That one s subjective of course)

Quote Chevytraveller:

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That reason may have been technical or it may have been political, but the project was still clearly unsuccessful or we would be seeing the all new 303 now.

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The reasons were neither, Roland were more keen on pushing the development and release of the JP-80. Original 303's are still in circulation, if Roland decided to go ahead and develop these prototypes fully. You would be seeing a lot more than a new 303.

The x0xb0x nicely fills the 303 gap.

Quote kolakube:

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How can they not sound the same Elf? There all from the same single sound card with the exact same convertors.

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So, by that reasoning, everything you hear sounds even more the same by being played through the same amp and speakers - which add much more of their own character to the sound than any soundcard.

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Original 303's are still in circulation, if Roland decided to go ahead and develop these prototypes fully. You would be seeing a lot more than a new 303.

The x0xb0x nicely fills the 303 gap.

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All I wish is an original TB-303 in new condition so it will last me a lifetime making sweet music full of heavenly bleeps:)))
Not altered, beefed up or whatever!

xOxbOx is not really filling the 303 gap, it is filling the gap for okish replicas. If they sounded the same no one would part with the figures an original commands these days. And believe me, prices are mad for them and yet they are piss easy to sell..Damn even one that is half working still goes for £1000!!

Edited by Steve Morley (28/04/11 12:39 PM)

Roland need to start releasing replicas to satisfy me. Exact replicas. Maybes I could forgive MIDI being included.

For me its more about using the same innards to make the same sound. Instead of slapping the name Juno on the side of a digital synth.

Also xox doesnt fill the gap at all.

I want a real deal Roland TB303. Not a clone. I know there is little different but pay £500 for a xox of £1500 for a brand new ltd run of TB303 from roland with MIDI.

No brainer.

Xox is more a lack of options than a conscious decision. ( Not meaning to knock the Xox )

Quote kolakube:

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Put JP8V at the side of MiniMonsta and they don’t sound the same any more than the hardware does.

How can they not sound the same Elf? There all from the same single sound card with the exact same convertors.

Sure one may have three virtual oscillators and the other two meaning different types of sound can be made but they still all have the same PC soundcard colour as they all come from the same PC soundcard

Unless im wrong in which case they all just sound utterly bland to me but in different ways.

Or then again it may be psychological. I may fiddle with a Juno, cream my pants and then think it sounds better because of this because im playing a real instrument. Similarly I may nod off when I twiddle with a mouse and keyboard.

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There is no way JP8V sounds the "same" as Minimonsta, unless you are trivialising things and just listening to raw static waveforms in which case what you say may be closer to the truth. There are many many sounds I can get out of a JP8V that could not come from Minimonsta, and vice versa. They have very different characters, and even where they overlap they don't even sound that similar. PLus once you add in some of the more advanced features, the experience changes again.

I there there is a lot of psychology in these things, playing a real instrument compared to a virtual software thing with a mouse - it's a completely different experience - but if you strip all that away, they are all capable of making inspiring sounds and great music.

And - please let's keep things civilised folks - passion is great, but arguments and disrespect are dull...