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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Back_AndToTheLeft]
      #169385 - 18/08/05 02:15 PM
Never owned but used many times.
I love the sound of the Rhodes but if it's not available, I'll use something else which still puts the idea across in the way I want.
There's more than one way to play a song.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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Brian Moynihan
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Designnotes]
      #169387 - 18/08/05 02:18 PM
Pirate I agree with you there. I think my point is the comparison of like for like, in that people are forking out £400 for a small digital like a Fuji that has no interchangeable lenses and something like 6Mpixels. If you look at what £400 can buy you in "analog" cameras, you could buy a Canon AE-1 for around £80 these days, spend another £120 on a pair of nice lenses, say one all rounder and one wide angle, another £100 on associated bags, tripod, filters, and then keep the last £100 to go nuts buying some bulk film stock. The end result would be unquestionably better photographs and the user would have to learn a bit about how to take a good picture, which digital cameras tend to discourage people from.

It's a different story if you get up to stuff like EOS-1D professional digital SLRs, which can take great pictures. But when you can buy something like an AE-1 for under £100, and take images good enough for even professional uses, knowing that the camera will probably still be working in the year 2105, it shows the comparison. I think it's incredibly similar to the audio question, because many people have switched to digital (i.e. non linear sequencers) purely because it is so much easier to edit and manage large multitrack projects. Hence the reason you will find many professional newspaper, wedding, magazine, architectural etc photographers now using the pro digital SLRs. They can see results instantly and edit & transmit digital files quickly. In a way, digital makes a lot more sense for them than it does for the average home user.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169390 - 18/08/05 02:21 PM
I'm completely in agreement with John Willett here. Vinyl may have its merits and advantages for DJs, but quality and accuracy aren't on the list.

There are enormous technical limitations and problems involved in cutting a vinyl record -- a pressed disk doesn't sound remotely close to the source master tape, ever! And thats before we even think about the effects of dust, dirt and physical damage.

Then there are all the replay problems associated with having a disc cut with a parallel arm and replayed with a pivoted one, and of the variable vertical tracking angles, and with the different pickup stylus geometries, weights and anti-skate forces.

And then there are the radically different sonic effects of mioving magnet or moving coil pickups, capacitive loading, RIAA curve errors....

It's all a complete technological disaster which is as far behind modern digital recording performance as it was ahead of the wax cylinder.

I agree that listening to old vinyl from the 50s and 60s often delivers excellent recording quality and stunning musical performances, but the reasons for that are entirely to do with the talent and technical approach of that era.

Recordings were made of musicians with talent and ability, produced by people who knew what they were doing, and recording by skilled and knowledgeable technicians who knew how to use the limited amount of equipment they had to the best effect.

It is the sound of real instruments played well and recorded carefully in good sounding rooms. No samples, no stack of Plug-in effects, no editing thirty different takes to make one that more or less works, no overdubbing of individual parts in isolation on different days....

Thats where the differences lie, not in the mysterious qualities of a black plastic disc.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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BigAl
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Designnotes]
      #169391 - 18/08/05 02:22 PM
Is anyone actually getting my point?

Yes, the Rhodes is great, but it's not the only sound.

This is exactly what I was meaning in my other points. Don't always dwell on the past and what you're comfortable with.
Try things differently for a change.

I have a Korg keyboard which has a Wulrlitzer type sound. Now I've never tried one for real (heard a few) and this sound doesn't really sound like it, but it's a lovely sound and I have used it a couple of times.
I faffed around with the programming to get it sounding a bit sharper and it's a good Wurly type sound and perfectly useable, but I don't lose sleep over not having a Wurly.
It's what I play and the feeling I put into which counts for more.
I've also got a nice 'Vintage' electric piano sample in my Clavinova, and I like it. Is it a Rhodes or Wurly?
I couldn't give a toss.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #169395 - 18/08/05 02:25 PM
Well said Hugh.

Why do people put good records down to the black plastic disk?

To echo your words, it's always down to talent.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Designnotes]
      #169402 - 18/08/05 02:30 PM

Wow, reasonably famous producer type in actual sos forum post shock. Not incognito like.

Cool. Hopefully you'll stick around these parts, if you have the time?

Would you solicit my demo to someone who could possibly help me further my musical endeavours? That question could be deemed rhetorical, possibly? (semi joke?)

Enjoyed "The problem with music" article you wrote.


Vinyl? Yeah, i love vinyl. But i'd need a better set up than a 1210 to fully appreciate a well pressed good condition record.

And you really can call it a record, cause records are round with a hole in the middle, always best in black.

Now i have to go and lie down for a few years.

Nice to see a known quantity on the forum.


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PWGLE



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #169405 - 18/08/05 02:34 PM
Yep i'm with you there Bob...

I've got a fully manual SLR with a couple of lens, and quite a few filters its a lovely camera, I use it a fair bit... but I just couldn't justify the film costs I got my self a Canon PowerShot A70 in the end, great little digital camera.

Best feature of it? The manual mode!

Its really convient when I'm out cycling I can just take the odd shot like...
http://www.msweb.co.uk/LG/IMG_3798_1.jpg

anyway!

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?


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Steve Hill
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169406 - 18/08/05 02:34 PM
Good affordable stereo (I deliberately avoid the loaded term "hi fi") has been with us since the 1960s, and really the changes (in quality, not format) since then are incremental, mostly small, and possibly in the case of CD, retrograde.

The problem as I see it is the need of hardware manufacturers to keep reinventing formats to get our wallets out of our pockets. Betamax really was better than VHS.

Manufacturers also gamble (sometimes massively) on innovation. Without which we'd no doubt be messing about with wax cylinders, so sure, a lot of this is good. And a lot is not - mp3/iPod etc being a case in point (at least quality wise - I guess it's fine to take out for a jog, which you can't do with a 1960s sideboard "stereogram").

I don't know if my affection for vinyl is all tied up with romance, nostalgia, and - yes - the sleeve artwork more than the sound quality, but the affection is real.

However, may I controversially suggest that a well recorded album done in the analogue domain (step forward Mr Albini, or indeed say White Stripes) and then properly mastered and released on CD (no flaky copy protection systems please) will also be an excellent product. Isn't the real problem, as someone said above, that there's too much crap being put out?

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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The real musiclover



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #169407 - 18/08/05 02:36 PM

Yeah yeah, talent, the quality of the music far outweighs the medium it's pressed onto, or burned into, etc.

Absolutely.


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Scottdru
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: BigAl]
      #169409 - 18/08/05 02:37 PM
Quote BigAl:


To echo your words, it's always down to talent.



We get it, Al. As we have the last hundred of times you've tried to impose this argument as the main focus of a different argument. Nobody's disagreeing with you on the point that it's all down to the talent and you need to work with the medium you have, not the medium you don't have available to you, etc. I would, however, like to see this thread remain a little more on-topic, before it morphs into a thread about religion and someone puts an eye out.

The subject of the thread is the relative sound quality (subjective and/or objective) of vinyl versus digital recordings, and not the quality of music itself. While we all agree the music is most important (including, I'm quite sure, Mr. Albini), the topic is quite valid irrespective of the music. We could be talking about recording birds, the sounds of animals in the jungle, trains, thunderstorms, or anything else for that matter.

Thanks.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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The real musiclover



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Scottdru]
      #169410 - 18/08/05 02:38 PM

Or farts?


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Steve Hill
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169414 - 18/08/05 02:41 PM
One other thing. I was much taken with Steve Albini's comment that he'll track and mix an album in 4 - 10 days. Had a band in recently who bored the pants off me and quite possible even themselves spending 7 days on one four minute song. Bass, drums, guitar, trumpet, voice. And a zillion overdubs of every part, all comped to smithereens, because of course track count was essentially limitless, "so they could".

Oh for the luxury of being able to say "you can record it again if you like, but you'll have to lose the previous take"...!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Doublehelix



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169416 - 18/08/05 02:44 PM
Lots of valid points here...

I just dug out my *huge* vinyl collection from the 60's, 70's and 80's, set up a nice turntable (my old Techniques had seen better days...RIP old friend), and have been doing some transfers to digital.

All I can say is that the vinyl sounds pretty dang amazing! Now, could that be due to the era of the recording when everything was tracked to tape to begin with, or is it the format of the final recording?

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Chickenjohn
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169417 - 18/08/05 02:44 PM
There is a theory posted by a well known nusic industry person (I cant remember who and don;t have the link) that says that listening to digital music can make humans feel on edge and irritated, subconsciously wheras listening to pure analoge (a vinyl record made from analogue equipment) is relaxing and pleasant.

He also goes on to suggest that this is the cause of most of the antisocial behaviour and crime in the modern world, (and possibly terrorism?).

Hard to believe, but listening to vinyl IS more relaxing and pleasant, he gave a technical reason for it, which I cant remember.

What do you think about that???

and despite what Hugh says vinyl DOES sound much better than CD, although i do have an iPOD, just to try and prove I'm not a complete technophobe.

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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Chickenjohn
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #169420 - 18/08/05 02:47 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

One other thing. I was much taken with Steve Albini's comment that he'll track and mix an album in 4 - 10 days. Had a band in recently who bored the pants off me and quite possible even themselves spending 7 days on one four minute song. Bass, drums, guitar, trumpet, voice. And a zillion overdubs of every part, all comped to smithereens, because of course track count was essentially limitless, "so they could".

Oh for the luxury of being able to say "you can record it again if you like, but you'll have to lose the previous take"...!




I think if a band was any good they should take no more than 2 weeks (10 days) to make an album, somthing else I agree with Steve Albini on, even though its not really him posting.

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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Brian Moynihan
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169422 - 18/08/05 02:48 PM
One has to take these sort of things with more than a little sodium chloride. Just check out the "roll up, roll up! snake-oil" vibe of the Diamond Center's website.....

http://www.diamondcenter.net/AR-HumanStress.html

But it's ok, you can take vitamins that make the CDs analog again.


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BigAl
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Scottdru]
      #169425 - 18/08/05 02:50 PM
I'm sorry for suggesting that good recordings are purely down to the equipment which is being used. Bad Al.

Anyway, why didn't you direct your post at Hugh - he made the point and I just greed with him.
He summed the whole vinyl thing up quite well. Some may prefer the sound, but it's far from perfect.

Do you want clear audio recordings or coloured and distorted ones?

Does it matter?

So lets forget the talent thing. What do we assume? that we've recorded a top song, performed by a top singer and band, recorded by a top engineer and produced by a top producer.

Has anyone (and I'd be interested) actually recorded the same piece and routed the mic's to two machines (one analogue and one digital) ? - Produced a vinyl copy of the analogue and a CD of the digital.
Then we could have a more level playing field for the discussion.

The problem is that the talent is always assumed and then people think that they need some 2 grand preamp and mic to make good recordings, whether for CD or vinyl. You don't and in these cases, they either don't know what they're doing or the performers aren't good.

How can you discuss the merits of two recording mediums without relating to some sort of audio output?
Let's not turn this into a HiFi type thread.

All our recording experiences are different and we base our opinions on our own experiences. How can I say I prefer vinyl or analogue when all I remember is scratches and pops and recordings done in analogue studios sounding worse than mine.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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BigAl
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: BigAl]
      #169428 - 18/08/05 02:53 PM
Scott,

I prefer the sound of a blackbird on 2" transferred to vinyl via a 0.5" master.
On the other hand, the magpie just sounds better at 24-bit 96kHz digital.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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Chickenjohn
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #169429 - 18/08/05 02:54 PM
yes, digital sucks the soul out of music....

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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Brian Moynihan
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169430 - 18/08/05 02:56 PM
Doublehelix,
Part of the difficulty with this debate is that it's hard to compare like for like with CD and Vinyl, because....

Most of the CDs we can buy now of classic 70s records are remastered, which may mean "remastered slightly better" or "remastered to death". So the new version may be better sounding simply because of remastering, or it may be worse sounding simply due to the remastering

And the other side of the coin, brand new records that are given a simultaneous Vinyl and CD release, well it's 99% likely they were recorded mixed and mastered fully digitally, with a straight digital copy going to CD and the vinyl pressing being the only analog component in the whole chain. So these also can't really be compared because we may be hearing something in the recording that is down to the recording and mixing method and technology.

The only real comparison is an un-remastered CD version compared to the original pressing of an album, say for example Songs in the Key of Life by Stevie Wonder. If you could find an early CD release that hadn't mean remastered and compare it to a mint copy of the vinyl. Interesting that someone mentioned the Tubes above because I just bought the CD of "Outside Inside", and *yawn* while it does sound immaculately clean and "correct", my vinyl copy still has something...more.

While Hugh and John are totally right about technical accuracy of the CD format, maybe it's not about that, maybe it really is the imperfection of the Vinyl that gives something a human charm, just like with tape.

Bob


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Scottdru
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: BigAl]
      #169431 - 18/08/05 02:58 PM
Quote BigAl:



Has anyone (and I'd be interested) actually recorded the same piece and routed the mic's to two machines (one analogue and one digital) ? - Produced a vinyl copy of the analogue and a CD of the digital.
Then we could have a more level playing field for the discussion.




That was indeed a large part of my initial query. I imagine Mr. Albini has, and a few others here possibly have -- at least to some degree.

Quote:

How can I say I prefer vinyl or analogue when all I remember is scratches and pops and recordings done in analogue studios sounding worse than mine.




Exactly. I would bet that a good many people here haven't had the chance to compare under the proper circumstances and equipment with to make a fair subjective comparison.

[EDIT: And also . . . What Bob said above. ]

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Chickenjohn]
      #169433 - 18/08/05 02:59 PM

You dont think it really is him then?

Probably not though.... Coo, an optimist for a few seconds there, cant have that.

Now if it was Elvis....


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Scottdru
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #169435 - 18/08/05 03:03 PM
Quote The real musiclover:



Now if it was Elvis....



Actually, Elvis has been spotted alive and well, living in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is only a couple of hours' drive from Chicago.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Designnotes]
      #169437 - 18/08/05 03:06 PM
The biggest problem with digital photography is the hidden costs if you wish to print. You don't have to think in big numbers in terms of photos taken before buying and developing film is just as cheap.
I think the culture of viewing may change (DVD on the TV).

I wasn't convinced by digital photography and I have a Fuji camera which I don't like at all.
I got a shot of a Nikon SLR Digital and the quality is fantastic - even blown up to A3 and printed at medium quality on a plotter!

Anyway, back to the vinyl...

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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Chickenjohn
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: BigAl]
      #169438 - 18/08/05 03:08 PM
Quote BigAl:

_snip_Let's not turn this into a HiFi type thread.

All our recording experiences are different and we base our opinions on our own experiences. How can I say I prefer vinyl or analogue when all I remember is scratches and pops and recordings done in analogue studios sounding worse than mine.




it IS allready a hifi type of thread as "Steve Albini" (yeah right) asked is vinyl better than CD, is that not a HiFi type question???

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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PWGLE



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Scottdru]
      #169439 - 18/08/05 03:08 PM
Quote Scottdru:

Quote The real musiclover:



Now if it was Elvis....



Actually, Elvis has been spotted alive and well, living in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is only a couple of hours' drive from Chicago.






--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?


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Doublehelix



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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #169440 - 18/08/05 03:09 PM
Quote The Bob Campbell:

Doublehelix,
Part of the difficulty with this debate is that it's hard to compare like for like with CD and Vinyl, because....





Great post, and I agree wholeheartedly!

btw...Songs in the key of life is one of my favorite albums of all time, and I am usually a "rocker" by heart! What an incredible piece of music that album is!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Stephen Bennett
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #169442 - 18/08/05 03:12 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:


It is the sound of real instruments played well and recorded carefully in good sounding rooms. No samples, no stack of Plug-in effects, no editing thirty different takes to make one that more or less works, no overdubbing of individual parts in isolation on different days....

Thats where the differences lie, not in the mysterious qualities of a black plastic disc.

hugh




Hugh

See my post above; the album I mention uses real instruments and very good musicians (ahem! ) but also a lot of plug-ins, editing, VI's and the whole modern studio caboodle.

So it can't just be the things you mention above that make vinyl sound so good. I have a lot of new vinyl and it's almost always better than the CD version. These days it's usually well pressed too - which couldn't be said for all the vinyl in the '70s and '80s.

Stephen

--------------------
New Henry Fool album (Feat: Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling of iMonster.)
New Tim Bowness album (Feat: Steven Wilson, Pat Mastelotto.)

Edited by Stephen Bennett (18/08/05 03:14 PM)


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Digital Emotions
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Brian Moynihan]
      #169444 - 18/08/05 03:14 PM
Quote The Bob Campbell:


While Hugh and John are totally right about technical accuracy of the CD format, maybe it's not about that, maybe it really is the imperfection of the Vinyl that gives something a human charm, just like with tape.





Is it possible to reproduce imperfection of vinyl on CD?
I would appreciate if Hugh R. can share his opinion on this one.

I am absolutely sure that if for example Pink Floyd albums from 70s
*Dark Side Of The Moon
*Wish You Were Here
*Animals
could be re-released on CDs that sound like vinyl
they would sell millions.

Is it possible to take high quality LP(not original tape)
and transfer it to CD without any stupid re-mastering?
Can it sound like vinyl?
Is it perfection or imperfection that make it sound this way I don't really care.

Digi Em.


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Chickenjohn
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169447 - 18/08/05 03:20 PM
"Back then in 1980, I had only digitally recorded and/or mastered vinyl LPs to test. The arrival of CDs a few years later increased the problem. As with LPs, but more so, the stress leads after a certain time (different for each individual) to a reversal of their usual ethical and medical standards of belief. The effects of this profound change that I have now investigated for some twenty years are I believe a very important etiological factor in the increase in childhood and adolescent disturbances, (witness the soaring rate of Ritalin prescribing), and in the escalating violence in our society.



Especially when we recall that the digital process is no longer confined to recorded music but is now affecting us nearly all day: TV, radio, telephones etc. It is we who have become digitalized!"

there you go! digital has ruined the world.......

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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BigAl
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Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Scottdru]
      #169448 - 18/08/05 03:21 PM
The routing experiment would be very interesting, but I would argue that it would be a waste of time.
I know what you're saying about recording birds etc.... (too limited frequency range to hear all pros and cons ), but what are you going to find out?
The bird reference has a serious point behind it, because once you find that out, what clear conclusions can be made?
{well it is also funny }

You'd be as well recording tones of various frequencies, but again what does that tell you when you are about to record some performers.

A strict A/B test is the only way of a clear comparison. I've seen a good A/B in a shop with digital and analogue SKY boxes into the same 32" wide TV.
the analogue picture was great with a nice softness which I like.
The digital was clear and perfect.
I preferred the analogue, but we're clutching at straws here.
I reckon my TV analogy isn't far away from the one we are discussing (what are we discussing again?)

Digital - good clear perfect reproduction.
Analogue - same but a bit softer due to a little distortion.

In all honesty, the record or CD is a representation of a performance - not the actual performance itself. You have to be there for that.
On whatever medium through your hifi, neither to that extent are anywhere near actually being in the room with the Marshall amp up full or the orchestra in the room.

Due to that, both CD and Vinyl are good enough and the difference between the two isn't as big a difference as being there and not being there.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


Joined: 24/01/02
Posts: 2682
Loc: The King's Height
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Digital Emotions]
      #169449 - 18/08/05 03:23 PM
So why then are we using expensive mics and preamps.
We should use cheap dynamic mics and average preamps to dirty it up.

It's time I went home.

Gigging this evening...

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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maaszy
member


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Posts: 206
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169450 - 18/08/05 03:23 PM
As a non-techie, are we not all missing something here? Us humans listen to everything analogue - we certainly don't have ears with ADDA converters. The sound we hear is usually caused by a speaker cone being made to move in and out to transmit the sound waves - a very analogue process because the cone can take up infinite positions between fully in and fully out. I am finding it hard to believe that it isn't possible to drive a speaker using a digitally generated sound so that the ins and outs, so to speak, exactly match the ins and outs produced by playing something recorded analogue. Surely the point is that we generally like the sound of analogue recordings because they are in fact "coloured" by the recording process itself, and the holy grail of making digital sound like analogue is actually a quest to mimic those "colourations".


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169458 - 18/08/05 03:29 PM
If we had carried on developing analogue recording and vinyl and record player technology. Then where would we be at now? Maybe some of those problems that Hugh pointed out would be smaller or gone problems. And 32 track home machines would be standard project kit.

I think vinyl and tape go in better they seem to stick in my memory better. But maybe thats the beer plugin.


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jerry123



Joined: 18/08/05
Posts: 43
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169460 - 18/08/05 03:34 PM
Here's the thing that convinced me when I was very young.
With digital, you are listening to a light that is translating data.
With tape, you are listening to the movement of a magnetic field's fluctuations. Getting closer.
With vinyl, you are listening to a physical object vibrating, physically recreating the vibrations that were in the room at the time of the tracking. It is the closest thing to a 'mould' of the sound that leaves the instruments. A physical, analog representation. My ears like it better.


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Chickenjohn
Not a chicken


Joined: 08/04/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Steve Albini]
      #169464 - 18/08/05 03:39 PM
I think the problem with digital is that it isnt really music its just numbers. When you look at a vinyl record, you can SEE the music, you can SEE the soundwaves as the grooves, turn the volume down and you can still hear music coming directly off the surface of the record, wheras digital is merely a numerical representaion of chunks of loudness, the sound is "squared off" by both the sampling rate and bit depth and thats what you can hear on a CD that is irritating compared to the smooth warm, relaxing sound to a vinyl record.

That guy may be trying to con people into buying his vitamins, but thats not to say he's not wrong about the stressfull effects of audio digitisation.

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: jerry123]
      #169466 - 18/08/05 03:39 PM
Quote jerry123:

...you are listening to a physical object vibrating...




Welcome to the forum brother


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Chickenjohn
Not a chicken


Joined: 08/04/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Kent, UK
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: __]
      #169472 - 18/08/05 03:44 PM
Quote ow:

If we had carried on developing analogue recording and vinyl and record player technology. Then where would we be at now? Maybe some of those problems that Hugh pointed out would be smaller or gone problems. And 32 track home machines would be standard project kit.

I think vinyl and tape go in better they seem to stick in my memory better. But maybe thats the beer plugin.




no, you're right, the real crime here is that by the late 70's, analogue quality was still getting better that included both the recording technology and also the playback technology (vinyl), but today with MP3's and the like taking over digital is making the quality worse and in a much less pleasant way, as bad digital sounds far worse than bad analogue.

--------------------
Chaas
cJ na


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olivier
new member


Joined: 27/05/02
Posts: 441
Loc: paris, france
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: __]
      #169473 - 18/08/05 03:44 PM
listening to "the Dark Side of the Moon" vinyl on a £20,000 set-up (that includes the loudspeakers, can't remember the brand of it all) was the most memorable listening experience I ever had..

now count me on the vinyl lovers side


I have technics SL1200s at home and although they're not *great* sounding devices I still prefer their sound over iPod's sound... but I also use an iPod for commuting and on-the-go listening..


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Digital Emotions
member


Joined: 29/03/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Brooklyn NY USA
Re: Vinyl is better than anything else. new [Re: Chickenjohn]
      #169474 - 18/08/05 03:45 PM
Quote Chickenjohn:

I think the problem with digital is that it isnt really music its just numbers. When you look at a vinyl record, you can SEE the music, you can SEE the soundwaves as the grooves




That just cannot be serious.
When after WW2 taperecorders become available
it was clearly an improvement, there is no argument against it.
And of course you couldn't see the music.

Digi Em.


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