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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted)
      #330335 - 26/07/06 07:48 PM
I am currently engaged in mixing a project for some friends, a semi-pro Jazz outfit called the Ah-Q Arkestra.

The line up is: Drums, Electric Bass, Electric Guitar, Saxophone, Trombone and Vocals, and this is their take on the Ella Fitzgerald classic "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered".

The 8 raw tracks were recorded by the band's guitarist in an office(!) with very basic equipment onto an Akai DPS16 with an assortment of budget mics and a couple of DI boxes for the guitars. You will therefore encounter lots of problems with the raw material but actually I thought that this makes the challenge more interesting - obviously you'll have to do a lot more 'massaging' of this to make it sound vaguely presentable than you would if they'd recorded in a top studio using really expensive vintage German mics and Fearn pre-amps!

I've already mixed a few of their other tracks from these sessions so I am fully aware of the multitude of mixing difficulties you'll encounter and I am, of course, fascinated to see what someone else can do with this material! I chose this track as it features a great vocal take, a couple of short solos and some 'fuller' arrangement with the horns coming in under the vocal to create some quite dense textures which are always fun to mix!

Below are 4 stereo WAV files at 16/44.1k organised as follows:

Bewitched Drums.WAV 39.1MB
Bewitched Kick/Bass.WAV 39.1MB
Bewitched Sax/Bone.WAV 39.1MB
Bewitched Guitar/Vocal.WAV 39.1MB

Right click on the links to download (sorry but .mac websites won't stream) - takes about 11 mins on my ADSL to download all. YMMV.

And here's an mp3 guide mix of the song I received with the raw material just to give me/you an idea of what's there: Bewitched Guide.mp3 5MB. You'll definitely need to improve on that to stand up and be counted but that shouldn't be too hard!

All submissions to be 16-bit stereo WAV files at 44.1k to even the playing field.

EDIT: 192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - see later posts for more info!

Ideally you already have webspace to pop these up on for download but if you don't email me your file as an attachment at jameslehmann@hotmail.com and I'll place them on my .mac page. (No MySpace streaming rubbish please!)

If you all thought it would be more fun not to know who has done each mix until the end I'll need a 3rd party who can host all the files and be the arbiter - any volunteers?

No need for this to drag on and bore everyone so let's say a week from now is the deadline?

Good luck and have fun!

James

EDIT: If you just dropped in, since we started this thing there's already lots of different mixes to listen to - GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES! And do please scroll to the end of the thread, have a look at what gear we all used and leave your comments for us - cheers!

Edited by James Lehmann (31/07/06 03:41 PM)


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PrinceXizor
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Joined: 30/01/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330338 - 26/07/06 07:52 PM
A note indicating the file size of each .wav and the .mp3 might be useful for those of us on dial-up!

P-X

--------------------
My Home Studio Build Thread


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: PrinceXizor]
      #330339 - 26/07/06 07:54 PM
Quote PrinceXizor:

A note indicating the file size of each .wav and the .mp3 might be useful for those of us on dial-up!



Done, although it would be a brave soul to attempt this on dial-up!


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PrinceXizor
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Joined: 30/01/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330342 - 26/07/06 07:57 PM
Exactly! Sometimes the size isn't listed accurately or listed at all at the beginning of download. So now I know not to even attempt this at home! Too bad I'm busy this weekend. This would be cool to see how my total lack of experience gets blown out of the water! Should be interesting...

P-X

--------------------
My Home Studio Build Thread


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330419 - 26/07/06 10:34 PM
Please post a description of your gear, techniques or plug-ins used,when you post your mixes, so us kids might learn something


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Hugh
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Joined: 03/06/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Koed]
      #330440 - 26/07/06 11:18 PM
Or a stipulation of GarageBand only (sorry windows users). That would sort the men from the boys!

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Yorkshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330560 - 27/07/06 09:33 AM
Jazz Eh - scary stuff

I'll give this a go, but no snigggering at the back when I ruin it


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thejazzassassin



Joined: 11/04/06
Posts: 429
Loc: Billingbear
i loves a good jazz-off new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330603 - 27/07/06 11:09 AM
jazz isn't scary... it's friendly and welcoming, much like a family member you never knew you had.



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DarrenSw
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Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 422
Loc: Sleaford, UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330688 - 27/07/06 01:48 PM
Hi James

I just downloaded these and they are all corrupt or invalid zips according to my system... do you have any naming conventions going on?

D

--------------------
This forum is like Hotel California...
You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave...


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CharlotteL



Joined: 06/07/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330756 - 27/07/06 04:10 PM
Oooh... something to concentrate on! Long summer breaks are not good for me, so this should be fun to play with.

Doubt anything I can make out of it would be worth posting, but I'll be interested to see what the rest of you guys can come up with


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Belfast
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: DarrenSw]
      #330761 - 27/07/06 04:27 PM
Quote DarrenSw:

I just downloaded these and they are all corrupt or invalid zips according to my system... do you have any naming conventions going on?




Expanded OK with me. Mac OS X.

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330770 - 27/07/06 04:46 PM
Quote James Lehmann:

If you all thought it would be more fun not to know who has done each mix until the end I'll need a 3rd party who can host all the files and be the arbiter - any volunteers?





I have access to some mp3 streaming servers, although bandwith is limited to about 2Mbps total per project.
Let me know if you want to use these.

cheers


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330796 - 27/07/06 05:47 PM
Great - some takers!

I actually finished my my own mix this morning - I knew it was finished because despite listening to this track 100 times when I played it the 100th time the hairs on the back of my neck stood up, so I stopped tweaking and printed it right there!

Line up so far:

James L
CharlotteL
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"

Is there a problem with PC downloads - I seriously hope not! Can anyone with a PC confirm they've managed to download the tracks successfully?

"Koed" - many thanks for offer of space, let's play it by ear and see how it goes; not sure it'll be needed yet.

My original intent was for this to be a straight-ahead mix effort as opposed to a remix tip, but I guess if anyone is inspired enough to an ambient-deathmetal-breakbeat-goatrance version then go right ahead - I'm sure the band will be fascinated to hear what you do!


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David Lewthwaite



Joined: 09/01/05
Posts: 627
Loc: On the Wirral these days
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330850 - 27/07/06 07:08 PM
The download service you're using appears to be messing up on a pc - it pretends they are zip files then infact, renaming the extension .wav produces the normal wav file.

I've had a go at this, are there any points for simplicity? or a beginners catorgory, i fear im going to make a huge fool of myself, still, we all have to begin somwhere!

--------------------
David Lewthwaite, www.lewty.org.uk, dave@lewty.org.uk


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330852 - 27/07/06 07:14 PM
Sounds like fun! I assume the tracks are dual-mono stereo WAVs to make the eight tracks. Downloading now. I'm really busy for the w/end, should be done Monday.

G

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330863 - 27/07/06 07:58 PM
Uploads to my PC using IE with no problem.


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...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330867 - 27/07/06 08:04 PM
Downloaded to my PC using Firefox, wierd wav-zip extension, but dragged straight into soundforge no problem.
I'll have a go at this, sounds like fun! I'm working until Monday, so hopefully Tuesday will be quiet and I can give this a go - looking forward to it


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330895 - 27/07/06 09:05 PM
Great - glad to hear the PC folks are on board, or most of them. .mac does put that weird zip-zip extention on files - no idea why!

Participant update:

James Lehmann
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"

Should have at least 8 mixes up by Wednesday night then?

Question: Shall we do a 'Blind Contest' and ask a 3rd party to host some mp3's or shall we just let everyone host their file and we link each mix to everyone's name from the off? My feeling is that those taking part won't mind either way, but I think it might be more fun for those not taking part not to know who's mix they are listening to.


PS No complaints about the kick drum track yet? I can tell you it's a shocker and sounds like a dead frog falling into a shoebox - have fun with that!


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #330925 - 27/07/06 09:54 PM
Yes, a blind test sounds a good idea. It might also be a good idea for us to write some short notes on the mix 'style' – to put the mixes into context. And have the mixes as WAVs ( with optional MP3s, for those with dial-up )

Guy

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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Chris Poulter
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Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Petersfield
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #330955 - 27/07/06 10:53 PM
I'm in, did a quick mix earlier and will check it over first thing in the morning Its taken 3 months, but I'm finally liking the Liquid Mix Comp and EQs for mixing (rather than just the SSL Master Bus Compressor!).

Chris

--------------------
Freelance Producer / Engineer | www.hernestudios.co.uk | FREE Listening sessions - see www.thelisteninggroup.org


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #331025 - 28/07/06 06:01 AM
Quote Guy Johnson:

Yes, a blind test sounds a good idea. It might also be a good idea for us to write some short notes on the mix 'style' – to put the mixes into context. And have the mixes as WAVs ( with optional MP3s, for those with dial-up )



A agree I don't like mp3's - however I think for the casual listeners who might be interested in checking out the results of this they will just want to stream a few of the files and won't want to download 9+ files of what is now over 320MB!

At 192kbps this file will be 5MB which seems reasonable - we could even go up to 256kbps, ie around 7MB?

After next week folks can use their own websites for posting 24/96k versions of the mix if you like - I suspect it will mainly be us contestants who will most want to examine the original files. I'll certainly put mine up!

Let's go for it!

So...

DESPERATELY SEEKING - someone with some fast and reliable webspace who can host perhaps 10+ 7MB mp3 files for us for a couple of weeks? You will also need to have the time to rename the files you will be sent and keep careful tabs on which mix is which. You'll also need to keep confidentiality until the contest is over! ANYONE??

I'm also tempted to ask some of the really experienced listeners here if they'd like to judge, like Hugh Robjohns, James Perrett, John Willett etc, subject of course to them having the time!

Participant update:

James Lehmann
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"
Chris Poulter

This is great - I thought there might be one or two entrants but now we have nine!...

Once again, the challenge here is for us to take a competant band of decent musicians, recorded on some pretty basic home equipment and make it sound as good as it possibly can be. I imagine that's a familiar situation to quite a few SOS readers and that folks will be very interested in the results!


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DarrenSw
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Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 422
Loc: Sleaford, UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331032 - 28/07/06 07:02 AM
Hi James

I'm in - any PC users struggling? I downloaded using Firefox and, as stated above, just opened them in SForge and they're fine.

I've got web space if you need it James... how about a simple Flash jukebox so one can listen to each remix individually as opposed to downloading them all? PM me if any good to you.

Am I barred from remixing though if I host?

And yes, Kick track is a tw*t!

Cheers

Darren

--------------------
This forum is like Hotel California...
You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave...


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331132 - 28/07/06 10:29 AM
Darren - glad you're in!

Thanks for the offer of webspace. I guess it wouldn't matter if you were also participating as long as you keep silent until the judging period is over!

I'm still thinking about whether or not to make this a blind test or not.

If we did go ahead with blind I am allergic to Flash players though - just links to mp3's in a post here would be fine I think. We've got "Koed" as well who wrote "I have access to some mp3 streaming servers, although bandwith is limited to about 2Mbps total per project." Is your server with a similar limit Also, if you do agree to this it will probably take up more time than you thought - hope you'd be OK with that?

I have done something like this before and in fact it was fun to know who had done what as you listened... I'm having second thoughts; maybe everyone should just put up their own 256kbps mp3?

"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Belfast
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331171 - 28/07/06 11:16 AM
Last night (well actually 2.00 am this morning) I put the tracks onto Cubase, and just had a listen. What scares me a bit is it all sounded OK to me without me doing anything. Kick drum- OK it rings, but from Js description I was expecting really rough sound. I'd have been happy to get what he got! I think it's time for me to find a new hobby!! Stamp collecting, here I come.....

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331214 - 28/07/06 12:11 PM
I have web space if needed, with Tiscali.

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331231 - 28/07/06 12:46 PM
Great idea James,

Downloading fine to my PC - will have a stab at something over the weekend....

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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LDGuy



Joined: 05/06/06
Posts: 43
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331242 - 28/07/06 12:56 PM
I've just done a mix. Its not an easy track to mix, as often the guitar conflicts with the horns and the chords become a little ambiguous. If i was producer, i'd kinda want all the tracks to be rerecorded, just because they're imprecise. The drums are too busy, the basslines are meandering, and the vocals are out of tune. I tried to re-tune the vox using v-vocal, but it removes a lot of tone and adds a nasty digital sibilance. For me, at least, the only cure would be to get the singer to sing the culprit bits again.

Dont take this too harshly - i'm an extreme perfectionist. Its a very good recording for what it is.

As for hosting/files - why not a .flac hosted at savefile.com?


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: LDGuy]
      #331319 - 28/07/06 03:11 PM
Quote LDGuy:

I've just done a mix. Its not an easy track to mix, as often the guitar conflicts with the horns and the chords become a little ambiguous. If i was producer, i'd kinda want all the tracks to be rerecorded, just because they're imprecise. The drums are too busy, the basslines are meandering, and the vocals are out of tune. I tried to re-tune the vox using v-vocal, but it removes a lot of tone and adds a nasty digital sibilance. For me, at least, the only cure would be to get the singer to sing the culprit bits again.

Dont take this too harshly - i'm an extreme perfectionist. Its a very good recording for what it is.



Ouch!

Believe me I would have liked nothing more than to have engineered these sessions myself armed with my trusty Powerbook, Metric Halos, Microtech Geffel and Brauner mics etc! Unfortunately that wasn't possible so the band (mainly the guitarist) engineered and recorded the tracks themselves using pretty standard home-studio fare, ie Rodes, AKG's Mackies and all onto the Akai.

As a background to the sessions I think the band recorded 18 tracks in two days, and I know they were a lot more interested in nailing a good feel than in perfection. I might possibly concede that the drums are a bit busy (but even this may be to do with the way it was recorded), and the horn players do play better solos on some of the other tracks but I don't agree at all about the vocal - I think it's a class performance there, sorry! And I think overall the band sound pretty tight, like on those hits at the end of the choruses. I agree that mixing the horns in under the guitar and vocal is a good challenge to make sense of in this track.

Anyway - good to have you onboard and I look forward to hearing your mix!


"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"
"Dunch"
"LDGuy"
"Vinylizor"

TOTAL = 13 mixes due at 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August! Fun!


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331325 - 28/07/06 03:31 PM
James...

No promises since I have a really full weekend of mixing coming up as it is, but if I have a chance, I will go ahead and give it a go as well. Sounds like a fun break from my other project which is stessing me out to no end!

If nothing else, I will give it a quick once-over for consideration, although I may be cutting my throat since I haven't listened to the samples yet!

Great idea James!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Vinylizor
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Joined: 28/07/01
Posts: 77
Loc: London UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: LDGuy]
      #331365 - 28/07/06 04:19 PM
Quote LDGuy:

Its not an easy track to mix, as often the guitar conflicts with the horns and the chords become a little ambiguous. If i was producer, i'd kinda want all the tracks to be rerecorded, just because they're imprecise. The drums are too busy, the basslines are meandering, and the vocals are out of tune. I tried to re-tune the vox using v-vocal, but it removes a lot of tone and adds a nasty digital sibilance. For me, at least, the only cure would be to get the singer to sing the culprit bits again.




The thing is though, you aren't being asked to produce the recording, you are being asked to mix it.

If you are a mix engineer, then this is what you are required to do - take what you are given and make it sound great - no matter what you think of the standard of the recorded parts. In this scenario you would also be treading on dangerous ground re-tuning vocals without permission!

On any mix there are always technical issues to deal with. With this track though, you can't bluff your way around them by using some unusual or cool production tricks. It requires a mix that sounds natural and expensive. It's a technical test of your chops, not particularly an artistic one - thats whats fun about it.


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DarrenSw
member


Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 422
Loc: Sleaford, UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Vinylizor]
      #331385 - 28/07/06 04:51 PM
Agreed, but I have to ask... why is the lead vocal a semitone out in the last passage before the end? Or is that jazz?

Should we leave it as is or retune it?

Darren

--------------------
This forum is like Hotel California...
You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave...


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Vinylizor]
      #331398 - 28/07/06 05:08 PM
Quote Vinylizor:

The thing is though, you aren't being asked to produce the recording, you are being asked to mix it.

If you are a mix engineer, then this is what you are required to do - take what you are given and make it sound great - no matter what you think of the standard of the recorded parts. In this scenario you would also be treading on dangerous ground re-tuning vocals without permission!

On any mix there are always technical issues to deal with. With this track though, you can't bluff your way around them by using some unusual or cool production tricks. It requires a mix that sounds natural and expensive. It's a technical test of your chops, not particularly an artistic one - thats whats fun about it.



I think you're right on the money with this post 'Vinylizor'!

I do realise that there are folks here who are used to working with much larger budgets, big name musicians and much more available time, and thus probably wouldn't really be interested in attempting to mix such humble fare. But for me at least (and perhaps other 'Project Studio' members) this is a 'realworld' situation whereby my clients have hired me for the job, sent me the recording (imperfect as it may be), and I just have to get on with it as best I can.

As you say 'Vinylizor', the fun/challenge is in asking oneself "OK - how good can I get this to sound, given all the limitations of the raw material, the fee being paid for the mixing and the resulting time I allocate to spend on it?"

I'm very interested to see what folks can do, and I hope we have a wide range of submissions, from perhaps one or two folks with a major set-up, through the project guys like me and right down to someone with a copy of Cubase LE and some computer speakers and not much else!

Whatever gear you're toting, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is whether or not you can facilitate getting this recording of this music to move, speak-to and engage your listener.


"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"
"dunch"
"LDGuy"
"Vinylizor"
"Doublehelix" ?

TOTAL = 14 mixes due at 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August! Fun!


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331427 - 28/07/06 06:10 PM
Hello all, quick question - what's the view on mastering this mix?

Either we post pre-masters, or have a go at mastering ourselves. Personally I'd opt for pre-masters, what do people think?

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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LDGuy



Joined: 05/06/06
Posts: 43
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Vinylizor]
      #331429 - 28/07/06 06:12 PM
Quote Vinylizor:

Quote LDGuy:

Its not an easy track to mix, as often the guitar conflicts with the horns and the chords become a little ambiguous. If i was producer, i'd kinda want all the tracks to be rerecorded, just because they're imprecise. The drums are too busy, the basslines are meandering, and the vocals are out of tune. I tried to re-tune the vox using v-vocal, but it removes a lot of tone and adds a nasty digital sibilance. For me, at least, the only cure would be to get the singer to sing the culprit bits again.




The thing is though, you aren't being asked to produce the recording, you are being asked to mix it.

If you are a mix engineer, then this is what you are required to do - take what you are given and make it sound great - no matter what you think of the standard of the recorded parts. In this scenario you would also be treading on dangerous ground re-tuning vocals without permission!

On any mix there are always technical issues to deal with. With this track though, you can't bluff your way around them by using some unusual or cool production tricks. It requires a mix that sounds natural and expensive. It's a technical test of your chops, not particularly an artistic one - thats whats fun about it.




You're abolsutely right. The trouble i have is i approach it from a musician's standpoint, not the impartial standpoint of an engineer. I dont do very much of it, so it's all in good fun.


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Sonicus



Joined: 13/05/05
Posts: 245
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: LDGuy]
      #331446 - 28/07/06 06:50 PM
Quote LDGuy:

I tried to re-tune the vox using v-vocal, but it removes a lot of tone and adds a nasty digital sibilance.




Just chop the Vocal up lad and choon only bits that need it.... that will sort out tha nasty problem.

Would like to ave a go misel like, but am goin' on't me 'olidays furraweek ort two - guess me lug 'oles need rest anyways.

Must agree that that Drummer is a busy fella like i'nt he, where the hekkaslike is 'e off in such an 'urry - calm down now drummer lad it's not a bloomin' race, let the lass get on wi' her chirpin - give her sum space, she sounds shweet to me!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: adrian_k]
      #331450 - 28/07/06 06:57 PM
Quote dunch:

Hello all, quick question - what's the view on mastering this mix?

Either we post pre-masters, or have a go at mastering ourselves. Personally I'd opt for pre-masters, what do people think?

cheers
Adrian



Yes - I'll be submitting a pre-master, but I don't think it matters too much. Just put up whatever your best shot at this is, with or without some treatment at the mastering stage. Maybe everyone just states with their file what sort of mastering they've done, that would be fair enough I think.


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DougR



Joined: 22/03/05
Posts: 601
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331459 - 28/07/06 07:12 PM
Im tempted to do a mix as well... although im off on holiday for a week first thing tomorrow morning so may not bother once i'm back! If i do one, i'll definatly post it up. Might do it on my Akai DPS24 to see if i can get it any better with a slight upgrade in gear (although the DPS16 and 24 are COMPLETly different beasts!)

Wont have a chance to download the tracks before im back, but certainly looking forward to seeing what people are capable of!

Doug

Edited by DougR (28/07/06 07:16 PM)


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Chris Poulter
new member


Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Petersfield
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: DougR]
      #331495 - 28/07/06 08:38 PM
I find LDGuys comments quite amusing, as it seems to miss the point. Yes, the technical quality of some of the parts is not great - I actually had to go back to James' post to find out what the kick track was (!) - but theres nothing in there that you cant get around. The main thing is that the performances are (in the most part) good.

I have always found that it is much easier to get a good mix from badly recorded great performances, than it is to get a good mix from well record recorded bad performances.

By the way, the power cable for my powerbook just snapped clean through, I'm hoping theres enough battery left to print my mix...

Chris

--------------------
Freelance Producer / Engineer | www.hernestudios.co.uk | FREE Listening sessions - see www.thelisteninggroup.org


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musicproject
new member


Joined: 20/05/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Israel
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331662 - 29/07/06 01:00 PM
james, just emailed you my - "oldschool jazz style" - mix of bewitched...

lot's of midrange, grainy vocals and brass and a 50's feel to it.

hope you like it.


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Statick



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1024
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331714 - 29/07/06 03:31 PM
i'd have a go but can't do it for 2 weeks yet...

--------------------
Statick Audio


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CharlotteL



Joined: 06/07/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: DarrenSw]
      #331746 - 29/07/06 05:29 PM
Quote:

why is the lead vocal a semitone out in the last passage before the end? Or is that jazz?




I think that's just a jazz thing... it doesn't sound like it was a mistake, and from the standard of the rest of the performance I'd be surprised if she was that far out by accident.


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: CharlotteL]
      #331771 - 29/07/06 07:23 PM
Quote CharlotteL:

Quote:

why is the lead vocal a semitone out in the last passage before the end? Or is that jazz?




I think that's just a jazz thing... it doesn't sound like it was a mistake, and from the standard of the rest of the performance I'd be surprised if she was that far out by accident.



Spot on Charlotte!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: musicproject]
      #331773 - 29/07/06 07:35 PM
Quote musicproject:

james, just emailed you my - "oldschool jazz style" - mix of bewitched...

lot's of midrange, grainy vocals and brass and a 50's feel to it.

hope you like it.



OK - that's excellent!!

You obviously had a clear idea of what you wanted and I think it works really well! In fact, I was thinking you could almost pan the drums over hard left like on those really early stereo records?

Great job!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331776 - 29/07/06 07:42 PM
OK folks, I think we need some web-hosting for this - there's way more interest that I thought there'd be, which is great!

I propose we formalise this now:

All submissions to be 192kbps mp3 files

We also now need a webmaster!

Ideally you should have:

- A decent amount of download traffic allowance
- A fast server

and most important...

- You need to be around for another week or so in order to manage this efficiently and accurately!

I have had offers so far from "Koed", Guy Johnson, "DarrenSw" and James Richmond. Be honest guys - are you willing to take this on and do you have the time? If you are please publish an email address where we can send our entries, and please keep careful tabs on who's is whose!

I expect there will be 15 or so entries, so the files will be around 5MB each.

There's no need to make a webpage - as long as we can make a post here linking all the submissions it will be fine. People need to either be able to stream directly or to right click download.

You'll need to name the files properly - preferrably so that when folks download them they will appear in iTunes with the correct name of the mix engineer in the 'Artist' box - this is quite important otherwise confusion will reign as to who did which!

I have three mixes ready to go already - mine, "Vinylizor" and "musicproject"!


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331792 - 29/07/06 08:14 PM
Hi James,

I'm a web developer with a re-seller package giving me unlimited disk space and around 40GB bandwidth/month. Happy to host the files (up to a sensible download limit, say 20GB/month, enough for about 4,000 5MB downloads).

If you are interested, let me know.

Darren


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: stemwinder]
      #331891 - 30/07/06 09:23 AM
Quote stemwinder:

Hi James,

I'm a web developer with a re-seller package giving me unlimited disk space and around 40GB bandwidth/month. Happy to host the files (up to a sensible download limit, say 20GB/month, enough for about 4,000 5MB downloads).

If you are interested, let me know.

Darren



Darren - this sounds excellent.

If you're up for taking this on can we go for it?

I have 5 mixes that folks have sent me all ready to go - would be nice for people to be able to start having a listen!

Files must be able to stream and right-click download

Just to re-iterate - we don't need a fancy webpage - I'd like simply to post all the links to the mp3's from within this thread, where we will include all the relevant mix info etc. I will do this in a later post which I will update as the mixes come in.

Can you PM or email me (jameslehmann@hotmail.com) your email address and I'll start sending the 5 mp3's I already have as attachments.

Thanks for volunteering!


PS I saw you have some PMC TB2's as well so I'm interested to get your listening feedback too!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331894 - 30/07/06 09:28 AM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann SUBMITTED
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
"dave-lew99"
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"
"dunch"
"LDGuy"
"Vinylizor" SUBMITTED
"Doublehelix"
"musicproject" SUBMITTED
"Hugh" SUBMITTED

TOTAL = 16 mixes due no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August.

Have fun!


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331952 - 30/07/06 01:14 PM
Hi James,

All set-up and ready to go... I've email you with the details.

Darren


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331986 - 30/07/06 03:23 PM
Hang on to your hats folks - Darren is just setting this up for us (big thanks Darren!).

Shortly I'll post an email address where you can send your 192kpbs mp3 entries.

Once Darren gets the files up on the site I'll post the appropriate links and add in new ones when they arrive.

After some thought I've decided we will all put our names to our mixes (as opposed to an anonymous 'shoot-out') - this makes it more personal for listeners directing comments/feedback etc, plus you can openly discuss the particular problems you encountered and what gear you used with direct reference to your mix.


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #331991 - 30/07/06 03:46 PM
OK people - please send your 192kbps mp3 mixes of "Bewitched..." to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk

Unless you state otherwise your Forum name will be attached to the mix.

And now presenting...

[loud jazzy drum-roll...]

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

(If you aren't downloading the raw files, for a rough idea of what we had to work with Mix #3 labelled "Band Akai" was the Guide mix done by the band with minimal processing directly in their Akai DPS16)


"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann SUBMITTED
"Vinylizor" SUBMITTED
Band Akai (Guide Mix) SUBMITTED
"musicproject" SUBMITTED
"Hugh" SUBMITTED
"dave-lew99" SUBMITTED
"dunch" SUBMITTED
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"
"LDGuy"
"Doublehelix"


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

Have fun!


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332000 - 30/07/06 04:10 PM
the stream links aren't working .. the m3u files should contain the complete path to the mp3 files.

Instead of

../mp3/mix5.mp3

they should read:

http://www.liquidbughunt.co.uk/jazz/mp3/mix5.mp3

or else they won't work on most systems.

Also.. it's nice to have a m3u with all the mp3's like this:

http://www.liquidbughunt.co.uk/jazz/mp3/mix1.mp3
http://www.liquidbughunt.co.uk/jazz/mp3/mix2.mp3
http://www.liquidbughunt.co.uk/jazz/mp3/mix3.mp3

etc etc..

If you click that m3u link you'll have all the mp3's in your mp3 player.


BTW .. it's almost weird and wonderful how different all of these mixes already are


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332005 - 30/07/06 04:17 PM
"Koed" - can you email that info to Darren at the above email address, cheers!


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332008 - 30/07/06 04:19 PM
They work fine for me on ie6 btw, just in case yer man is testing.


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332011 - 30/07/06 04:24 PM
James -

thanks again for setting this up (and Darren for hosting). Have just spent a very enjoyable couple of hours mixing, and my mix has been mailed ... now to listen to the others!

btw, in case anyone is interested, it was mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones.

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: __]
      #332012 - 30/07/06 04:25 PM
Quote ow:

They work fine for me on ie6 btw, just in case yer man is testing.




Yes me too

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332022 - 30/07/06 05:00 PM
I have changed the streaming files (M3Us) to absolute references so they should work for non-IE6 users now. When all of the entries are in I'll put up a "stream all" playlist.

Seven up so far....


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332043 - 30/07/06 06:06 PM
GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

(If you aren't downloading the raw files, for a rough idea of what we had to work with Mix #3 labelled "Band Akai" was the Guide mix done by the band with minimal processing directly in their Akai DPS16)


"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off
Participant update:

James Lehmann SUBMITTED
"Vinylizor" SUBMITTED
Band Akai (Guide Mix) SUBMITTED
"musicproject" SUBMITTED
"Hugh" SUBMITTED
"dave-lew99" SUBMITTED
"dunch" SUBMITTED
"stemwinder" SUBMITTED
"CharlotteL"
"jumpeyspider"
"Lime ZRX"
"Wonkey Wabbit"
"Herewego"
Guy Johnson
Chris Poulter
"DarrenSw"
"LDGuy"
"Doublehelix"


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

Have fun!


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: stemwinder]
      #332091 - 30/07/06 09:08 PM
Working like a charm now thanks


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Hugh
member


Joined: 03/06/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Koed]
      #332129 - 30/07/06 11:25 PM
Mine was all mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332173 - 31/07/06 06:20 AM
James - would it be possible to get hold of a list of exactly which mic was used for each track on the original recording? Just for interest..

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: adrian_k]
      #332176 - 31/07/06 06:38 AM
Quote dunch:

James - would it be possible to get hold of a list of exactly which mic was used for each track on the original recording? Just for interest..



Info a bit patchy but what I know is this:

Drum Overheads - Rode NT5's
Other Drums, ie Kick, Snare, Toms etc - unknown mics, probably more Rode's, AKG's and maybe a 57
Drums pre-mixed to stereo feed (minus kick) via a Mackie Onyx
Bass - 5-string Fender Jazz >> Sansamp DI
Sax & Trombone - clip-on AKG condensers
Guitar - Ibanez Jazz >> DI from out the back of a Polytone amp
Voice - AT4033 >> Joemeek ThreeQ

All recorded directly onto an Akai DPS16 at 16/44.1k


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Mr Tom
new member


Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 664
Loc: Herefordshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332250 - 31/07/06 10:35 AM
Hi James,

This mix-off is a nice idea - thanks. I've just e-mailed my mp3 to Darren, so hopefully it should appear in the list some time.

For those interested; it was mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins. If you want to know more - then just ask . . .

Tom

--------------------
My Little Project


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332315 - 31/07/06 12:34 PM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant update:

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
No info yet

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
No info yet

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
No info yet

"Extraborg" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. Logic Express

"Mr Tom" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

"Wonkey Wabbit" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Have fun!


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332328 - 31/07/06 12:53 PM
I'm kind of curious about the monitors used for each mix

Guessing that the huge variation in the mp3's I've listened to might have a lot to do with the monitor/room conditions.

Pretty sure there's an NS 10 (or descendent) owner in there, a HiFi set or maybe even a pair of headphones


I always check mixes on my event 20/20's, then on my midrange computer speakers and finaly on my senheisser headphones to see if they transfer well.

Only three of the current mp3's have passed with flying colors thus far.


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Mr Tom
new member


Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 664
Loc: Herefordshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Koed]
      #332416 - 31/07/06 03:49 PM
Quote Koed:

I'm kind of curious about the monitors used for each mix




Tannoy Reveal Active in my case - and a pretty poor room acoustically!

--------------------
My Little Project


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itinerant baker



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 561
Loc: 11miles east of Hugh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332428 - 31/07/06 04:33 PM
Dagnabit! I've just seen this with only a couple of days to go. I'm downloading now and I'll give it a bash but I'll decide wether I'm going to actualy enter the fray when I hear what I've come up with.

--------------------
He who feels punctured must have been a bubble - Lao Tsu.


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332443 - 31/07/06 05:03 PM
I sent mine in late yesterday evening - hopefully it's got through OK. Only had a short time to mix it as I had only just finished repairing my music PC late Sunday afternoon after 5 months out of action. I used Wavelab to encode it to an mp3 and the first mixes 'jumped' and missed a section. Eventually I got one that seemed to play through OK all the way. Never had that before.

This is my set-up.

3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM.
M-Audio Delta-66
Cubase SX2.2
UAD-1 card
Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!)
Wavelab V3

I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression.

I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

The Ah-Q Arkestra - do they play everything in the key of F?


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David Lewthwaite



Joined: 09/01/05
Posts: 627
Loc: On the Wirral these days
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332450 - 31/07/06 05:17 PM
Ok, a little info about what i've done:

Hardware:

AMD Athlon XP 3200+
1Gb RAM
Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex
160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks
Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors
Yamaha MG16/4
Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used

My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound.

Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers.

All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan.

The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb

Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

--------------------
David Lewthwaite, www.lewty.org.uk, dave@lewty.org.uk

Edited by David Lewthwaite (31/07/06 05:20 PM)


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332454 - 31/07/06 05:32 PM
He-he! Will be interesting to see if we get anyone to ante up an entirely OTB mix through [gasp] a real analog console and some esoteric outboard!


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332484 - 31/07/06 06:35 PM
My set-up is:

- PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints)
- PMC TB2s monitors
- PSP Vintage Warmer
- PSP Master Compressor
- DigiDesign DVerb

Darren


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332490 - 31/07/06 06:41 PM
So here's a little more info on my mix (Sonar, ITB).

I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system.

After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue.

Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass.
Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq.
Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq.
Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky.
Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq.
Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit.
I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder.
Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb.
I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus.
Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332504 - 31/07/06 07:01 PM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off

11 mixes so far and counting!...

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant update:

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
OTB/ITB. My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's. For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console). Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro. Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing. The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely. Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ. Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus. There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
No info yet

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones. I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system. After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue. Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass. Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky. Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq. Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit. I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder. Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb. I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus. Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
ITB. PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints), PMC TB2s monitors, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP Master Compressor, DigiDesign DVerbt

MIX 9: "Mr Tom"
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

MIX 10: "DarrenSW"
No info yet

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit"
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

"Extraborg" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. Logic Express


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Have fun!

Edited by James Lehmann (31/07/06 08:49 PM)


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Vinylizor
member


Joined: 28/07/01
Posts: 77
Loc: London UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332548 - 31/07/06 08:33 PM
My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's.

For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console).

Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro.

Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing.

The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely.

Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ.

Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus.

There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Belfast
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332601 - 31/07/06 10:19 PM
After sending a version at the wrong bit rate, hopefully the correct one will have landed by now. Thanks Darren!
Loaded into Cubase SL3 and mixed on a Yamaha 02R. Just used one reverb from a Lexicon MPX550. I cheated a bit and changed some of the music. There's a couple of places where the bass player uses the same note for ages, I pasted another note in to give the speakers (Mackie 824) a rest! I didn't like the way the drums fell in at the start, or at the very end, so I cut them a bit. Also, I know the kick has been slagged off, but I've stuck it in a few extra places just to make it feel wanted. The vocalist- really nice voice I think- had a habit of singing an "a" sound before some lyrics, usually "a- bewitched". Took them out. It was probably a really important part of the jazz feel of the song and I'm going to be sued. Also, there was a wee pop on the first "simpering", so I took that out. I reallly must get out more.....
Oh, and I moved some of the guitarists chords a bit, and a few brass bits.
I do have the TC Electronic Finalizer in the 02R, but as others haven't resorted to mastering, I didn't touch it.
I hadn't turned my studio on for months, so this was good fun.

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.

Edited by Lime ZRX (31/07/06 10:20 PM)


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332690 - 01/08/06 06:15 AM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off

12 mixes so far and counting!...

Just a reminder deadline is tomorrow evening, ie 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August!

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant update:

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
OTB/ITB. My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's. For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console). Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro. Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing. The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely. Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ. Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus. There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
No info yet

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones. I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system. After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue. Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass. Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky. Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq. Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit. I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder. Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb. I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus. Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
ITB. PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints), PMC TB2s monitors, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP Master Compressor, DigiDesign DVerbt

MIX 9: "Mr Tom"
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

MIX 10: "DarrenSW"
ITB. Mixed ITB using Cubase SL3.0 and no third party plug-ins. Have mixed it a little differently to others I've listened to, tried to stay away from the "Jazz must be almost dry" scenario by adding space i.e. reverb on Vocals; reverb and delay on the solos. Behringer Truth monitors and also little dodgy PC speakers.

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit"
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

MIX 12: "Lime ZRX"
ITB/OTB (digital). Loaded into Cubase SL3 and mixed on a Yamaha 02R. Just used one reverb from a Lexicon MPX550. I cheated a bit and changed some of the music. There's a couple of places where the bass player uses the same note for ages, I pasted another note in to give the speakers (Mackie 824) a rest! I didn't like the way the drums fell in at the start, or at the very end, so I cut them a bit. Also, I know the kick has been slagged off, but I've stuck it in a few extra places just to make it feel wanted. The vocalist- really nice voice I think- had a habit of singing an "a" sound before some lyrics, usually "a- bewitched". Took them out. It was probably a really important part of the jazz feel of the song and I'm going to be sued. Also, there was a wee pop on the first "simpering", so I took that out. I reallly must get out more... Oh, and I moved some of the guitarists chords a bit, and a few brass bits. I do have the TC Electronic Finalizer in the 02R, but as others haven't resorted to mastering, I didn't touch it.


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Have fun!

Edited by James Lehmann (01/08/06 10:53 AM)


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DarrenSw
member


Joined: 27/01/03
Posts: 422
Loc: Sleaford, UK
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332707 - 01/08/06 07:35 AM
Re: My Mix

Mixed ITB using Cubase SL3.0 and no third party plug-ins. Have mixed it a little differently to others I've listened to, tried to stay away from the "Jazz must be almost dry" scenario by adding space i.e. reverb on Vocals; reverb and delay on the solos.

Behringer Truth monitors and also little dodgy PC speakers.

Enjoyed it!

Darren

--------------------
This forum is like Hotel California...
You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave...


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CharlotteL



Joined: 06/07/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: DarrenSw]
      #332786 - 01/08/06 10:53 AM
Well, my mix has been sent off!

My Setup:

AMD 2.0GHz laptop, 768MB RAM, Edirol UA-20X and Cubase SX3.

It's been mixed in-the-box using Cubase and its included plugins - Q, Dynamics and Roomworks.

I've tried to keep the whole thing quite clean sounding - I thought the untreated recording sounded pretty good as it was, TBH.

I'm rather annoyed with the situation I found myself in with regards to monitoring, though, so please forgive any glaring bass issues - my KRK fund is still a good month away from completion so this has been mixed on a combination of headphones, my hifi speakers and the Behringer Truth B2030A's in my (cube-shaped, untreated) office at work. Usually I'd have checked this on the Genelecs at Uni, but obviously it's summer so I was stuck with what was to hand.

Looking forward to listening to the rest of the mixes, hope I haven't embarassed myself too horrifically with this one!

Charlotte


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332790 - 01/08/06 10:58 AM
Charlotte - look forward to hearing your mix although you may have the rather unlucky honour of being "MIX 13"!


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CharlotteL



Joined: 06/07/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332791 - 01/08/06 11:00 AM
Quote:

Charlotte - look forward to hearing your mix although you may have the rather unlucky honour of being "MIX 13"!




Lol!

I'm sure I can cope with that - my thirteenth birthday fell on a Friday the 13th... you get used to being cursed after a while!

Edit: And this is my thirteenth post! Argh, my brain hurts now...

Edited by CharlotteL (01/08/06 11:01 AM)


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332827 - 01/08/06 11:51 AM
Ha! Finally got it together. Missed my pints of Cwrw Haf in the pub, too!

Well, I mixed it a major Neve-equipped studio I luckily have access to. All the tracks were transferred to 2" 8-track tape with no noise reduction, running at 64 ips. Reverb was from three (!) EMT 140 plates and a Cranesong compressor for . . . joking . . . it was mixed in Logic 7.1 on my just-out-of-guarantee iMac – All Logic plugs except some Tritone EQs and a couple of Altiverbs.

Monitoring with some PMC TB2+ loudhailers (powered by a Carver PM 1.5 amp) and a REL Stadium sub.

I didn't mind the drums too much, as they have a bit of that slightly boxy, muffled 'jazz' sound – except the OTT cymbals. The kick needed some work, and I thought the tracks were all phase-inverted, so I fixed that.

The hardest thing was the vocal – there are some nasty compression artifacts and what sound like edits, that spoil it a bit for me, though I tried to cover them with the band!

I just went for a natural-ish sound that I liked, rather than mix 'jazzy' (whtever that is) . I found myself enjoying the mixing, using quite a lot of volume automation in the end. I did no editing or arrangement-changing.

I put on a spot of 'angel dust' in WaveBurner, and converted to MP3.

Now I'll give it a rest, and listen to the others in the evening!

Guy

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #332855 - 01/08/06 12:31 PM
EDIT: PLEASE SEE UPDATED POST FUTHER DOWN THIS THREAD

"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off


The reponse to this has been amazing - 17 mixes so far and counting! We should do this more often!

Well done to everyone taking part! I think the 'competitive' nature of this exercise has been largely eclipsed by the general sense of fun and challenge that participants have reported, which is just fine by me. The interest is chiefly in taking part and hearing the other results. Besides I'm not sure I have the heart to ask anyone to sit though 17+ mixes of this and make a selection! But maybe we might do a 'shortlist' of 5 or so (excluding me!) and see if we can scrape up a token prize of sorts from somewhere. Watch this space...

Once again many thanks first of all to The Ah-Q Arkestra, and in particular my mate Dave (band-leader, guitarist and session engineer) for giving permission to use their excellent playing and material for this Mix-Off. And of course to Darren (aka "stemwinder") for his tireless work and generosity in setting up a special website for us and updating it regularly!

Just a reminder deadline is tomorrow evening, ie 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August!

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant update (in the same order they appear on the website):

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
OTB/ITB. My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's. For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console). Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro. Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing. The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely. Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ. Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus. There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
No info yet

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones. I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system. After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue. Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass. Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky. Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq. Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit. I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder. Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb. I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus. Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
ITB. PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints), PMC TB2s monitors, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP Master Compressor, DigiDesign DVerbt

MIX 9: "Mr Tom"
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

MIX 10: "DarrenSW"
ITB. Mixed ITB using Cubase SL3.0 and no third party plug-ins. Have mixed it a little differently to others I've listened to, tried to stay away from the "Jazz must be almost dry" scenario by adding space i.e. reverb on Vocals; reverb and delay on the solos. Behringer Truth monitors and also little dodgy PC speakers.

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit"
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

MIX 12: "Lime ZRX"
ITB/OTB (digital). Loaded into Cubase SL3 and mixed on a Yamaha 02R. Just used one reverb from a Lexicon MPX550. I cheated a bit and changed some of the music. There's a couple of places where the bass player uses the same note for ages, I pasted another note in to give the speakers (Mackie 824) a rest! I didn't like the way the drums fell in at the start, or at the very end, so I cut them a bit. Also, I know the kick has been slagged off, but I've stuck it in a few extra places just to make it feel wanted. The vocalist- really nice voice I think- had a habit of singing an "a" sound before some lyrics, usually "a- bewitched". Took them out. It was probably a really important part of the jazz feel of the song and I'm going to be sued. Also, there was a wee pop on the first "simpering", so I took that out. I reallly must get out more... Oh, and I moved some of the guitarists chords a bit, and a few brass bits. I do have the TC Electronic Finalizer in the 02R, but as others haven't resorted to mastering, I didn't touch it.

"CharlotteL" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. AMD 2.0GHz laptop, 768MB RAM, Edirol UA-20X and Cubase SX3. It's been mixed in-the-box using Cubase and its included plugins - Q, Dynamics and Roomworks. I've tried to keep the whole thing quite clean sounding - I thought the untreated recording sounded pretty good as it was, TBH. I'm rather annoyed with the situation I found myself in with regards to monitoring, though, so please forgive any glaring bass issues - my KRK fund is still a good month away from completion so this has been mixed on a combination of headphones, my hifi speakers and the Behringer Truth B2030A's in my (cube-shaped, untreated) office at work. Usually I'd have checked this on the Genelecs at Uni, but obviously it's summer so I was stuck with what was to hand.

Guy Johnson (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. Mixed in Logic 7.1 on my just-out-of-guarantee iMac – All Logic plugs except some Tritone EQs and a couple of Altiverbs. Monitoring with some PMC TB2+ loudhailers (powered by a Carver PM 1.5 amp) and a REL Stadium sub. I didn't mind the drums too much, as they have a bit of that slightly boxy, muffled 'jazz' sound – except the OTT cymbals. The kick needed some work, and I thought the tracks were all phase-inverted, so I fixed that. The hardest thing was the vocal – there are some nasty compression artifacts and what sound like edits, that spoil it a bit for me, though I tried to cover them with the band! I just went for a natural-ish sound that I liked, rather than mix 'jazzy' (whtever that is) . I found myself enjoying the mixing, using quite a lot of volume automation in the end. I did no editing or arrangement-changing. I put on a spot of 'angel dust' in WaveBurner, and converted to MP3.

"Song Doctor" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB, ProTools LE, with KRK Rockit 5's, and a nice high-back executive chair from OfficeWorks. With my mix, as I've never done anything with jazz, I tried to simulate the setup of a live jazz gig I saw recently. So basically the drums are panned quite left, and everything else spread out 'beside' it. The reverb from the kit and voice etc is panned to the right, as this something I noticed happening at the jazz gig. I have a little bit of overdrive on the guitar, and some compression and EQ here and there. Overall its a bit of an experiment.

"JumpeySpyder" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
Mixed ITB using Sonar 5 and bundled plug-ins. (about 8 hours in total) Alesis M1 active mk II monitors in an untreated 3 x 3 x 3 room. I had lots of trouble mixing this track - I usually play with synth / industrial stuff that I don’t have to worry about sounding unnatural, but I’ve really enjoyed myself. What I’ve done:- I manually stripped out a fair amount of spill - I’m not sure if I’ve done enough but it would be easy to spend a lot of time here. Major EQ happened on kick + trombone. I’ve added a little gentle compression (hopefully) on most of the tracks to even things out and a sprinkling of reverb to vocals and solo parts. I found the point where the brass first came in very tricky and couldn’t make it sit right. In the end, I couldn’t get it right so I tampered with it. It’s still not right - sorry. Also at this point the trombone sounded a little out of tune to me ( its probably ‘one of those fancy jazz things’) I might have meddled with some Autotune if I had it. I also couldn’t resist adding a little edge to the guitar with an amp simulation. I’m expecting to be bottom of the pile, but looking forward to seeing what everyone else has done and hopefully getting some pointers.

"Herewego" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB: P4 2.66, 1 gig ram. Cubase 5, extra plugins were PSP Vintage Warmer, hydratone EQ, glaceverb (free) reverb, and waves rennaissance vox on the vocal. Monitored on Studio Precision Active 8 monitors, Koss headphones and crappy PC speakers. I decided the important thing for me was to get an intimate vocal sound, as it seemed to suit the performance and the song. First - Imported all the tracks and split them into mono, even the overheads. Things I probably should not have done, but they seemed right to me: 1. Tuned the bass first of all - yes all of it. I thought the tuning generally of all instruments was slightly loose, so if the bass was 'right' it might help give a good foundation. 2. Tuned a few vocals bits, nothing major, happy to leave some pitchy moments, it was more some of the passing/grace notes that I tightened up a tad. For tuning I use Melodyne Uno. 3. Fixed the guitarist's 'fluffed' chord in the intro. I think/hope he'll thank me. Kick - hated it, applied some EQ and compression, but I also looked up an SOS article about replacing an audio part with a midi one. Drumagog would have been nice actually! It took an hour, I learnt a new technique, and mixed a midi (JV2020) kick in slightly behind the original to help it out a bit. Overheads - left alone except small compression, some eq to lift the tom/snare range a touch compared to the cymbals. Bass - a bit of compression, some eq. Sax solo - eq to mellow it. Trombone solo - left alone. Sax/trombone (excepting the solos) - I grouped them, a touch of eq on the sax, a bit on the group. Guitar - one eq for the intro section and last chord, another for the rest to leave more room for the bass. Touch of reverb. All the 'band' was grouped and had a touch of reverb, the Glaceverb freebie (it's a bit of an odd plugin, but I like it in some situations and it seemed to work here). Voice - lovely vocal! I tuned a few notes that I felt were probably due to the pressure of doing lots of tracks in quick succession. Rennaissance Vox to compress, plus some eq from Hydratone to brighten and warm slightly, touch of reverb from Glaceverb. Plenty of fader automation, especially raising the level at ends of notes and the lower registers, eg the "dered" of "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered", to try and keep it sounding intimate. Generally a few bits of automation on the faders, and some Hydratone EQ and compression using PSP Vintage Warmer to glue the mix slightly. This is not what I usually get the chance to do, so it presented some unusual challenges for me - which I thoroughly enjoyed!


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Have fun!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332856 - 01/08/06 12:31 PM
Quote Guy Johnson:

I mixed it a major Neve-equipped studio I luckily have access to. All the tracks were transferred to 2" 8-track tape with no noise reduction, running at 64 ips. Reverb was from three (!) EMT 140 plates and a Cranesong compressor for . . .



LOL! You had me going there just for a second Guy! Like, just how good could this mix be under those conditions!

Darren usually gets busy updating things each evening so I look forward to hearing your mix hot off the press tonight!

I agree I think the vox was a shade over-compressed on the way into their Akai, but it's not too bad. I found the drums FAR worse of a problem - no matter what level you mix them at they just don't 'sit' right. I often find myself in a minority on this Forum raging against just how poor I think the Rode NT5's are - wrestling with them yet again on this production has done nothing to change my mind!


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SongDoctor



Joined: 26/03/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Rockhampton, Australia
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332871 - 01/08/06 12:48 PM
Is it too late to enter? It isnt too late in Aus, dunno what the time is there, lol. I've sent my mix, so if it's not too late, here is some info:

ITB, ProTools LE, with KRK Rockit 5's, and a nice high-back executive chair from OfficeWorks.

With my mix, as I've never done anything with jazz, I tried to simulate the setup of a live jazz gig I saw recently. So basically the drums are panned quite left, and everything else spread out 'beside' it. The reverb from the kit and voice etc is panned to the right, as this something I noticed happening at the jazz gig. I have a little bit of overdrive on the guitar, and some compression and EQ here and there. Overall its a bit of an experiment :-)

Cheers
Matt


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Yorkshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332884 - 01/08/06 01:04 PM
Just emailed my mix!!

‘Bewitched’ by a stunning vocal, ‘Bothered’ mostly by the kick and the trombone &‘Bewildered’ how to make a decent mix.

Mixed ITB using Sonar 5 and bundled plug-ins. (about 8 hours in total) Alesis M1 active mk II monitors in an untreated 3 x 3 x 3 room

I had lots of trouble mixing this track - I usually play with synth / industrial stuff that I don’t have to worry about sounding unnatural, but I’ve really enjoyed myself.

What I’ve done:-
I manually stripped out a fair amount of spill - I’m not sure if I’ve done enough but it would be easy to spend a lot of time here.
Major EQ happened on kick + trombone.
I’ve added a little gentle compression (hopefully) on most of the tracks to even things out and a sprinkling of reverb to vocals and solo parts.

I found the point where the brass first came in very tricky and couldn’t make it sit right. In the end, I couldn’t get it right so I tampered with it.

It’s still not right - sorry.

Also at this point the trombone sounded a little out of tune to me ( its probably ‘one of those fancy jazz things’) I might have meddled with some Autotune if I had it.

I also couldn’t resist adding a little edge to the guitar with an amp simulation.

I’m expecting to be bottom of the pile, but looking forward to seeing what everyone else has done and hopefully getting some pointers.

Edited by Jumpeyspyder (01/08/06 01:05 PM)


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...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #332897 - 01/08/06 01:19 PM
Sent mine in last night - great fun! First - thanks again to James for organising this, and Darren for hosting.

ITB: P4 2.66, 1 gig ram. Cubase 5, extra plugins were PSP Vintage Warmer, hydratone EQ, glaceverb (free) reverb, and waves rennaissance vox on the vocal. Monitored on Studio Precision Active 8 monitors, Koss headphones and crappy PC speakers.

I decided the important thing for me was to get an intimate vocal sound, as it seemed to suit the performance and the song.

First - Imported all the tracks and split them into mono, even the overheads.

Things I probably should not have done, but they seemed right to me:
1. Tuned the bass first of all - yes all of it. I thought the tuning generally of all instruments was slightly loose, so if the bass was 'right' it might help give a good foundation.
2. Tuned a few vocals bits, nothing major, happy to leave some pitchy moments, it was more some of the passing/grace notes that I tightened up a tad. For tuning I use Melodyne Uno.
3. Fixed the guitarist's 'fluffed' chord in the intro. I think/hope he'll thank me :-)

Kick - hated it, applied some EQ and compression, but I also looked up an SOS article about replacing an audio part with a midi one. Drumagog would have been nice actually! It took an hour, I learnt a new technique, and mixed a midi (JV2020) kick in slightly behind the original to help it out a bit.

Overheads - left alone except small compression, some eq to lift the tom/snare range a touch compared to the cymbals.

Bass - a bit of compression, some eq.

Sax solo - eq to mellow it

Trombone solo - left alone

Sax/trombone (excepting the solos) - I grouped them, a touch of eq on the sax, a bit on the group.

Guitar - one eq for the intro section and last chord, another for the rest to leave more room for the bass. Touch of reverb.

All the 'band' was grouped and had a touch of reverb, the Glaceverb freebie (it's a bit of an odd plugin, but I like it in some situations and it seemed to work here)

Voice - lovely vocal! I tuned a few notes that I felt were probably due to the pressure of doing lots of tracks in quick succession. Rennaissance Vox to compress, plus some eq from Hydratone to brighten and warm slightly, touch of reverb from Glaceverb. Plenty of fader automation, especially raising the level at ends of notes and the lower registers, eg the "dered" of "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered", to try and keep it sounding intimate.

Generally a few bits of automation on the faders, and some Hydratone EQ and compression using PSP Vintage Warmer to glue the mix slightly.

This is not what I usually get the chance to do, so it presented some unusual challenges for me - which I thoroughly enjoyed!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Jumpeyspyder]
      #332929 - 01/08/06 01:56 PM
Quote Jumpeyspyder:

‘Bewitched’ by a stunning vocal, ‘Bothered’ mostly by the kick and the trombone &‘Bewildered’ how to make a decent mix.



LOL!


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itinerant baker



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 561
Loc: 11miles east of Hugh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333000 - 01/08/06 04:09 PM
Entered.

Mixed ITB(aker).

Spec: AMD Athlon XP 1900, Soundblaster sound card being monitered on (decent, old, and well known) Technics speakers (and checked on headphones - haven't been able to burn a copy for the car or other systems). Sequenced in Tracktion using various plugins. Wavelab used for wave editing and transfer to mp3.

I've tried to get a sort of live jazz band feel without being retro. I remember seing footage from the Montreaux festival or somesuch when I was a yout with people like Miles Davis, and I've also got a few live jazz lp's, and that's the sort of sound I've gone for here.

I used Wavelab to seperate the samples that where paired off, and also to normalise them and manualy gate some of the spill and breath from the vocal track (which is how I normaly do vocals - never got on with gates).

Guitar and drums where more or less left alone, just run through Digital Fish Phones Blockfish, with Kjearhaus Audio's Classic reverb on the kick to give it a bit of stereo width. I've kept the drums quite low in the mix, and aimed for the kick drum to be felt when it really hits, but not really heard. Would apreciate anyone's comments on wether this has been successful. The guitar is also deliberately quite low in the mix I also panned it slightly to the right as the vocal had got a tendancy to hang to the left which I can only put down to one of the plugins it was proccessed by . Bass is left alone, with an MDA Limiter to tame it slightly.

For the brass I took a slightly different aproach and wanted to play with the way they sound a bit. I've put the sax through Bojo Softwares BJ Flanger, and then through Blockfish to level out the flangeing a bit. I've tried to keep it subtle and not dissapear into the realms of space jazzz. For the Trombone I used a Big Tick Dual Delay, which gives a nice Rico 'The Man from Wareika' sound, which had to stay in. I also panned the sax slightly to the left and the trombone to the right.

The vocals was the bit I had the most to do to as I wasn't completely happy with the way it sat or the sound. I decided to try and make it a bit more gritty. None of the overdrive plugins I tried made the right noise (I always find them too digital sounding, which is ok sometimes, but not for this.) After rumaging through my vst effect folder and trying all sorts of things I decided on the Palancaware reverb plugin, set to the 'library' preset, and to beef up the bottom end I used the MDA Multiband Compressor - which together warmed it up nicely. It still didn't sit right in certain parts so I put it through yet another instance of Blockfish to try and make it push through a bit more - I know, not exactly best practise chaining compressors like that, but if it works it works, and sometimes it does! This time it didn't work quite enough. The singer was still being a bit drowned out a minute or so in. I looked at the sound spectrum of her vocal using Inspector from Elemental Audio and decided to cut everything else slightly at about 400hz to let her through, this worked nicely in one bit but not another, I tried a second sonic scoop centred around 2khz but couldn't get it to sound right. Eventualy I decided to leave the cut at 400 in and to automate the vocal level throughout, which made a few other parts sit more comfortably. This also allowed me to take Blockfish off the vocals.

This is nowhere near the sort of stuff I normaly do, I usualy deal with hip hop, and usualy use samples and loops - I very rarely have anything to do with individual instruments! It's been an interesting challange, and the sort of thing I've been looking for for a while. I've also just realised that most (if not all) of the plugins I used where freebies, Tracktion was the free version of v.1 they issued a year and a bit back, and my computer's running the dreaded soundblaster sound card! Just shows it's doable on a budget!

--------------------
He who feels punctured must have been a bubble - Lao Tsu.


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DARK



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 169
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333002 - 01/08/06 04:13 PM
brilliant idea guys my girlfriend jsut got home after a long holiday so i doubt im gonna get to do it before saturday but ill giv it a go then and as for doing it in the future that would be brilliant defo something to help people break out of only mixing their own tracks

--------------------
alienware area51m7700 3ghz 2gb(so loud but so powerful) cubase sx3, reason3, soundforge, motu 896hd interface


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Chris Poulter
new member


Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Petersfield
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: DARK]
      #333015 - 01/08/06 04:25 PM
Well I managed to get a replacement power supply for my Powerbook, but after tweaking my mix slightly further I decided I preffered the original version anyway (which I put together the other day in just over an hour before my power supply blew up! :P).

Mixed in PT, using Liquid Mix and D-Verb. Monitoring on KRK V6's.

Chris

--------------------
Freelance Producer / Engineer | www.hernestudios.co.uk | FREE Listening sessions - see www.thelisteninggroup.org


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Hugh
member


Joined: 03/06/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Chris Poulter]
      #333060 - 01/08/06 06:13 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean Chris. I finished and sent mine off at 5 in morning (having started it in a fit of madness at 2am!) The next day thought I really ought to fix some of the glaring problems which I seemed to miss the previous night, but in the end prefered the original.

I'm definitely up for making this a regular spot. Perhaps SOS could run it in conjunction with the magazine and the best of the last month's entries get a spot about their authors in the magazine and their track on the CD/DVD and on the website. What do other people think. I don't think any prize is really necessary but it would be nice if the mag was able to devote a double page spread to it each month since after all, equipment reviews are important but it's what we do with it which is the most important thing. Perhaps if it takes off then some of the big names you get interviewed could judge a shortlist?

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Hugh]
      #333100 - 01/08/06 07:26 PM
Nice idea, but if you get 200 entrants, then some poor soul has got to sit and listen to 200 slightly different versions of the same song. How do you try and compare 200 similar mixes? OK some might be instantly dismissable but if you could bin say 25% straight away, then that still leaves you with 150 to try and remember and compare one against the other. How many times would you end up listening to that track? The will to live would quickly be lost!


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Hugh
member


Joined: 03/06/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: --]
      #333113 - 01/08/06 07:46 PM
Yeah, I guess you're right.

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Hugh]
      #333141 - 01/08/06 08:46 PM
But an occasional mix-off like this would still be great fun. Maybe we could have a mix against the clock (say 12 hours) with a much shorter time to turn things round in (fast web server space permitting) - and announced beforehand so that everyone knew it was coming?


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333152 - 01/08/06 09:01 PM
Have had fun listening to the results, some nice work there! I sent the wrong file, but I have sent the right one now Must label things better

Interesting how many mixes put the guitar on the right and the brass on the left, like what I did. I feel a bit odd about the brass being opposite sides of the stage . . . the species usually stick together, I've noticed!

Also the production is in two main groups – the band playing live style, which I tried, and the more shiny laid back styles. Look forward to the rest.

Guy

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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LDGuy



Joined: 05/06/06
Posts: 43
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333162 - 01/08/06 09:30 PM
Just sent James this email.

"Hi James.

I have my mix for you. Oh, and sorry about my extremely harsh comment
i made in the thread (i am i nice guy really!), and sorry about any
offense that may have caused. I would delete it but it spoils the flow
of the thread.

Anyway, i have two versions of it, mainly because the 192kbps version
has a really nasty compressed sound to the high frequency "s" sounds.
I dont know why this is - i converted it using iTunes, which is the
only converter i own, mainly because it's un-lame. I have a 320kbps
version which sounds a lot nicer, but it's still a bit compressed-ish.

http://www.savefile.com/files/3958172 - 320kbps

http://www.savefile.com/files/8781723 - 192kbps

The mix was done in the box in Sonar 5. I wanted to get as sweet a
sound, and as professional sounding as possible. I tried to be sparing
with effects - there was a Sonitus EQ on each track (if i recall
correctly, some tracks may have been left alone), and then a Waves
TrueVerb the sax, trombone, and vox were sent to. The rest of the
mixing was with faders. The guitar was put through a bit compression
to even it out, but the only other compression used was at the end
with a little bit of PSP Vintage Warmer to bring the levels up. There
was also another EQ at the end to give it some spice. This track isn't
mastered, but then again i dont think it particularly needs to be. The
level is sufficient in my opinion. I used Event ALP-5 monitors and the
Bose system in a Mazda 6 to get a range of environments. The computer
was an Inta-Audio Custom Built model, dual 3.2ghz Pentium 4, 2GB RAM.
This track was also mixed wearing sandals, and drinking a glass of
Hoegaarden Whitbier.

Cheers!

Lawrence."

Enjoy!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333234 - 02/08/06 06:07 AM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off

The reponse to this has been amazing - 20 mixes so far and counting! We should do this more often!

Well done to everyone taking part! I think the 'competitive' nature of this exercise has been largely eclipsed by the general sense of fun and challenge that participants have reported, which is just fine by me. The interest is chiefly in taking part and hearing the other results. Besides I'm not sure I have the heart to ask anyone to sit though 20+ mixes of this and make a selection! But maybe we might do a 'shortlist' of 5 or so (excluding me!) and see if we can scrape up a token prize of sorts from somewhere. Watch this space...

Once again many thanks first of all to The Ah-Q Arkestra, and in particular my mate Dave (band-leader, guitarist and session engineer) for giving permission to use their excellent playing and material for this Mix-Off. And of course to Darren (aka "stemwinder") for his tireless work and generosity in setting up a special website for us and updating it regularly!

Just a reminder deadline is TODAY, ie 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August!

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant update (in the same order they appear on the website):

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
OTB/ITB. My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's. For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console). Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro. Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing. The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely. Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ. Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus. There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
No info yet

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones. I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system. After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue. Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass. Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky. Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq. Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit. I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder. Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb. I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus. Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
ITB. PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints), PMC TB2s monitors, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP Master Compressor, DigiDesign DVerbt

MIX 9: "Mr Tom"
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

MIX 10: "DarrenSW"
ITB. Mixed ITB using Cubase SL3.0 and no third party plug-ins. Have mixed it a little differently to others I've listened to, tried to stay away from the "Jazz must be almost dry" scenario by adding space i.e. reverb on Vocals; reverb and delay on the solos. Behringer Truth monitors and also little dodgy PC speakers.

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit"
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

MIX 12: "Lime ZRX"
ITB/OTB (digital). Loaded into Cubase SL3 and mixed on a Yamaha 02R. Just used one reverb from a Lexicon MPX550. I cheated a bit and changed some of the music. There's a couple of places where the bass player uses the same note for ages, I pasted another note in to give the speakers (Mackie 824) a rest! I didn't like the way the drums fell in at the start, or at the very end, so I cut them a bit. Also, I know the kick has been slagged off, but I've stuck it in a few extra places just to make it feel wanted. The vocalist- really nice voice I think- had a habit of singing an "a" sound before some lyrics, usually "a- bewitched". Took them out. It was probably a really important part of the jazz feel of the song and I'm going to be sued. Also, there was a wee pop on the first "simpering", so I took that out. I reallly must get out more... Oh, and I moved some of the guitarists chords a bit, and a few brass bits. I do have the TC Electronic Finalizer in the 02R, but as others haven't resorted to mastering, I didn't touch it.

MIX 13: "Herewego"
ITB: P4 2.66, 1 gig ram. Cubase 5, extra plugins were PSP Vintage Warmer, hydratone EQ, glaceverb (free) reverb, and waves rennaissance vox on the vocal. Monitored on Studio Precision Active 8 monitors, Koss headphones and crappy PC speakers. I decided the important thing for me was to get an intimate vocal sound, as it seemed to suit the performance and the song. First - Imported all the tracks and split them into mono, even the overheads. Things I probably should not have done, but they seemed right to me: 1. Tuned the bass first of all - yes all of it. I thought the tuning generally of all instruments was slightly loose, so if the bass was 'right' it might help give a good foundation. 2. Tuned a few vocals bits, nothing major, happy to leave some pitchy moments, it was more some of the passing/grace notes that I tightened up a tad. For tuning I use Melodyne Uno. 3. Fixed the guitarist's 'fluffed' chord in the intro. I think/hope he'll thank me. Kick - hated it, applied some EQ and compression, but I also looked up an SOS article about replacing an audio part with a midi one. Drumagog would have been nice actually! It took an hour, I learnt a new technique, and mixed a midi (JV2020) kick in slightly behind the original to help it out a bit. Overheads - left alone except small compression, some eq to lift the tom/snare range a touch compared to the cymbals. Bass - a bit of compression, some eq. Sax solo - eq to mellow it. Trombone solo - left alone. Sax/trombone (excepting the solos) - I grouped them, a touch of eq on the sax, a bit on the group. Guitar - one eq for the intro section and last chord, another for the rest to leave more room for the bass. Touch of reverb. All the 'band' was grouped and had a touch of reverb, the Glaceverb freebie (it's a bit of an odd plugin, but I like it in some situations and it seemed to work here). Voice - lovely vocal! I tuned a few notes that I felt were probably due to the pressure of doing lots of tracks in quick succession. Rennaissance Vox to compress, plus some eq from Hydratone to brighten and warm slightly, touch of reverb from Glaceverb. Plenty of fader automation, especially raising the level at ends of notes and the lower registers, eg the "dered" of "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered", to try and keep it sounding intimate. Generally a few bits of automation on the faders, and some Hydratone EQ and compression using PSP Vintage Warmer to glue the mix slightly. This is not what I usually get the chance to do, so it presented some unusual challenges for me - which I thoroughly enjoyed!

MIX 14: "CharlotteL"
ITB. AMD 2.0GHz laptop, 768MB RAM, Edirol UA-20X and Cubase SX3. It's been mixed in-the-box using Cubase and its included plugins - Q, Dynamics and Roomworks. I've tried to keep the whole thing quite clean sounding - I thought the untreated recording sounded pretty good as it was, TBH. I'm rather annoyed with the situation I found myself in with regards to monitoring, though, so please forgive any glaring bass issues - my KRK fund is still a good month away from completion so this has been mixed on a combination of headphones, my hifi speakers and the Behringer Truth B2030A's in my (cube-shaped, untreated) office at work. Usually I'd have checked this on the Genelecs at Uni, but obviously it's summer so I was stuck with what was to hand.

MIX 15: Guy Johnson
ITB. Mixed in Logic 7.1 on my just-out-of-guarantee iMac – All Logic plugs except some Tritone EQs and a couple of Altiverbs. Monitoring with some PMC TB2+ loudhailers (powered by a Carver PM 1.5 amp) and a REL Stadium sub. I didn't mind the drums too much, as they have a bit of that slightly boxy, muffled 'jazz' sound – except the OTT cymbals. The kick needed some work, and I thought the tracks were all phase-inverted, so I fixed that. The hardest thing was the vocal – there are some nasty compression artifacts and what sound like edits, that spoil it a bit for me, though I tried to cover them with the band! I just went for a natural-ish sound that I liked, rather than mix 'jazzy' (whtever that is) . I found myself enjoying the mixing, using quite a lot of volume automation in the end. I did no editing or arrangement-changing. I put on a spot of 'angel dust' in WaveBurner, and converted to MP3.

MIX 16: "Song Doctor"
ITB, ProTools LE, with KRK Rockit 5's, and a nice high-back executive chair from OfficeWorks. With my mix, as I've never done anything with jazz, I tried to simulate the setup of a live jazz gig I saw recently. So basically the drums are panned quite left, and everything else spread out 'beside' it. The reverb from the kit and voice etc is panned to the right, as this something I noticed happening at the jazz gig. I have a little bit of overdrive on the guitar, and some compression and EQ here and there. Overall its a bit of an experiment.

MIX 17: "Itinerant Baker"
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 1900, Soundblaster sound card being monitered on (decent, old, and well known) Technics speakers (and checked on headphones - haven't been able to burn a copy for the car or other systems). Sequenced in Tracktion using various plugins. Wavelab used for wave editing and transfer to mp3. I've tried to get a sort of live jazz band feel without being retro. I remember seing footage from the Montreaux festival or somesuch when I was a yout with people like Miles Davis, and I've also got a few live jazz lp's, and that's the sort of sound I've gone for here. I used Wavelab to seperate the samples that where paired off, and also to normalise them and manualy gate some of the spill and breath from the vocal track (which is how I normaly do vocals - never got on with gates). Guitar and drums where more or less left alone, just run through Digital Fish Phones Blockfish, with Kjearhaus Audio's Classic reverb on the kick to give it a bit of stereo width. I've kept the drums quite low in the mix, and aimed for the kick drum to be felt when it really hits, but not really heard. Would apreciate anyone's comments on wether this has been successful. The guitar is also deliberately quite low in the mix I also panned it slightly to the right as the vocal had got a tendancy to hang to the left which I can only put down to one of the plugins it was proccessed by . Bass is left alone, with an MDA Limiter to tame it slightly. For the brass I took a slightly different aproach and wanted to play with the way they sound a bit. I've put the sax through Bojo Softwares BJ Flanger, and then through Blockfish to level out the flangeing a bit. I've tried to keep it subtle and not dissapear into the realms of space jazzz. For the Trombone I used a Big Tick Dual Delay, which gives a nice Rico 'The Man from Wareika' sound, which had to stay in. I also panned the sax slightly to the left and the trombone to the right. The vocals was the bit I had the most to do to as I wasn't completely happy with the way it sat or the sound. I decided to try and make it a bit more gritty. None of the overdrive plugins I tried made the right noise (I always find them too digital sounding, which is ok sometimes, but not for this.) After rumaging through my vst effect folder and trying all sorts of things I decided on the Palancaware reverb plugin, set to the 'library' preset, and to beef up the bottom end I used the MDA Multiband Compressor - which together warmed it up nicely. It still didn't sit right in certain parts so I put it through yet another instance of Blockfish to try and make it push through a bit more - I know, not exactly best practise chaining compressors like that, but if it works it works, and sometimes it does! This time it didn't work quite enough. The singer was still being a bit drowned out a minute or so in. I looked at the sound spectrum of her vocal using Inspector from Elemental Audio and decided to cut everything else slightly at about 400hz to let her through, this worked nicely in one bit but not another, I tried a second sonic scoop centred around 2khz but couldn't get it to sound right. Eventualy I decided to leave the cut at 400 in and to automate the vocal level throughout, which made a few other parts sit more comfortably. This also allowed me to take Blockfish off the vocals.

MIX 18: Chris Poulter
ITB. Mixed in PT, using Liquid Mix and D-Verb. Monitoring on KRK V6's.

"LDGuy" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
ITB. The mix was done in the box in Sonar 5. I wanted to get as sweet a sound, and as professional sounding as possible. I tried to be sparing with effects - there was a Sonitus EQ on each track (if i recall correctly, some tracks may have been left alone), and then a Waves TrueVerb the sax, trombone, and vox were sent to. The rest of the mixing was with faders. The guitar was put through a bit compression to even it out, but the only other compression used was at the end with a little bit of PSP Vintage Warmer to bring the levels up. There was also another EQ at the end to give it some spice. This track isn't mastered, but then again i dont think it particularly needs to be. The level is sufficient in my opinion. I used Event ALP-5 monitors and the Bose system in a Mazda 6 to get a range of environments. The computer was an Inta-Audio Custom Built model, dual 3.2ghz Pentium 4, 2GB RAM. This track was also mixed wearing sandals, and drinking a glass of Hoegaarden Whitbier.

"JumpeySpyder" (Awaiting inclusion on site)
Mixed ITB using Sonar 5 and bundled plug-ins. (about 8 hours in total) Alesis M1 active mk II monitors in an untreated 3 x 3 x 3 room. I had lots of trouble mixing this track - I usually play with synth / industrial stuff that I don’t have to worry about sounding unnatural, but I’ve really enjoyed myself. What I’ve done:- I manually stripped out a fair amount of spill - I’m not sure if I’ve done enough but it would be easy to spend a lot of time here. Major EQ happened on kick + trombone. I’ve added a little gentle compression (hopefully) on most of the tracks to even things out and a sprinkling of reverb to vocals and solo parts. I found the point where the brass first came in very tricky and couldn’t make it sit right. In the end, I couldn’t get it right so I tampered with it. It’s still not right - sorry. Also at this point the trombone sounded a little out of tune to me ( its probably ‘one of those fancy jazz things’) I might have meddled with some Autotune if I had it. I also couldn’t resist adding a little edge to the guitar with an amp simulation. I’m expecting to be bottom of the pile, but looking forward to seeing what everyone else has done and hopefully getting some pointers.


192kbps mp3 mixes due to Darren at sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk no later than 19.00hrs Wednesday 2nd August - please make sure we know your Forum name.

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Have fun!

Edited by James Lehmann (02/08/06 09:32 AM)


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Yorkshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333267 - 02/08/06 09:26 AM
Just re-sent my mix hope it arrives safely


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333272 - 02/08/06 09:40 AM
It's quite interesting to see what DAW's folks are using too!

So far:

ProTools 4
Logic 4
Cubase 6
Sonar 3
Tracktion 1
Akai DPS 1
Unknown 1

Total 20


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #333279 - 02/08/06 09:52 AM
Quote Guy Johnson:

Have had fun listening to the results, some nice work there! I sent the wrong file, but I have sent the right one now Must label things better




If the right one remains in the ether, just imagine it's 5 db louder, with more top -end and less high-bass!

G

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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adam miller



Joined: 02/08/06
Posts: 84
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333309 - 02/08/06 11:21 AM
Ok- a late entry, I just sent Darren my mix.

Another one mixed in Cubase (SX), mainly using the Waves plugins- in particular Rencomp and a couple of IR1 convolution reverbs. I also used a couple of URS eqs, and the Sonalksis compressor gently over the whole mix. I used a fair amount of automation to make sure the mix 'pushed' in the right places.

The mix was done on my Mackie 624s, and cross-checked on my mastering-grade (obviously) Tannoy Reveals. I used an L2 just to bring the highest peaks up to zero.

Cheers,

Adam


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Jon Jon Jon



Joined: 05/08/03
Posts: 498
Loc: London
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333539 - 02/08/06 06:10 PM
i sent my mix off at about 1pm this afternoon but i can't see it on the page yet. did you receive it?

thanks

Jon

--------------------
Kasha - Picture a beautiful life


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333554 - 02/08/06 06:48 PM
Hello all,

all mixes up and ready to roll... Enjoy!

Darren


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Belfast
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: stemwinder]
      #333556 - 02/08/06 07:01 PM
24 mixes!!
That's over an hour and a half off the same song
Good luck to the poor person (James?) who's gonna be wading through all that!

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Mr Tom
new member


Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 664
Loc: Herefordshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Kwackman]
      #333563 - 02/08/06 07:11 PM
Quote Lime ZRX:

24 mixes!!
That's over an hour and a half off the same song
Good luck to the poor person (James?) who's gonna be wading through all that!




I bet most of us who've entered have listened to that song for well over and hour and a half already - so the big listen through should be a piece of cake!

I keep meaning to add some further details about my mix - bear with me.

Tom

--------------------
My Little Project


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333584 - 02/08/06 08:02 PM
"Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered" Mix-Off

PLEASE NOTE: Deadline is now passed, so please stop sending entries - Darren's done enough work on this already! (I guess you could post your own link if you'd like to though.)


Once again many thanks first of all to The Ah-Q Arkestra, and in particular my mate Dave (band-leader, guitarist and session engineer) for giving permission to use their excellent playing and material for this Mix-Off. And of course to Darren (aka "stemwinder") for his tireless work and generosity in setting up a special website for us and updating it regularly!


GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


Participant summary (in the same order they appear on the website):

ITB = In the box, mixed entirely within a DAW
OTB = Out of the box, mixed using analog processing

(NB: Participants - do please provide as much detail as you like about how you mixed and what monitors you used etc and I'll include it here - this is a Music Technology Forum after all and I think folks are interested.)

MIX 1: James Lehmann
OTB/ITB. My overall mix goal - making this production, recorded on very basic equipment, sound as expensive as possible; fixing a number of unwanted technical problems inherent in the raw tracks; preserving the dynamic and feel of the live take as you can hear the band play well together so the mix should reflect that. Firstly each individual track was re-recorded at 24/44.1k by being run out and back through a Metric Halo 2882 via a Speck ASC-T EQ and a Drawmer 1968-ME compressor for warmth, colour and character. Tracks were then edited to remove unnecessary spill and extraneous noise. Further corrective EQ was added ITB with Logic Channel EQ and Metric Halo Channelstrip - the latter was also used for volume adjustments as the resolution is much finer than Logic's and it sounds better. ChannelStrip's compressor was also used to deal with (significant) drum spike and kick problems - frequency-dependent sidechain input was very useful here. Sax and Trombone each required a heavily customised ChannelStrip patch with EQ & compression to warm them up and fill them out, and the Kick required some major corrective surgery to get anything remotely useable. Guitar went through a custom Logic Guitar Amp Pro patch and then a tiny amount of EQ correction with Channel EQ to make it 'sit' with the vocals, Bass I left largely alone. Reverb was a TC M300 set to TC Classic Hall which was patched into the S/P-DIF loop of the MH2882, with some EQ on the return. Volume and EQ automation inserted where needed (ie solos etc). Finally, the mix was summed and again sent out and back through the MH2882 (note: not summed in Logic) via the Specks (fine lo-end roll-off) and the Drawmer (very gentle compression) to create a nice pre-master. Elemental Audio Finis was used to raise the overall volume peak to -0.15dB but no limiting was used (death to the loudness wars!); the resulting 24-bit master was dithered back down to 16/44.1k and converted to a 192kbps mp3 in iTunes. All monitoring done on Blue Sky ProDesks.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor"
OTB/ITB. My mix was done in Pro-Tools HD, but mainly using outboard vintage comps and eq's as inserts on each channel, through Apogee AD/DA 16X convertors. Monitoring was on PMC AML1's & IB1's. For the vocals, the chain was a Calrec CL1170 compressor (an expanded BBC AM6/17 design) and a Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ (as used in the Focusrite console). Bass went through a Distressor (in opto mode), the guitar went through a Urei 1176LN comp, and again they both went through Focusrite ISA 85110 EQ's. Guitar was quite hissy. I tried both noise reduction and re-amping, but in the end it was always a compromise over what was a pretty good tone, so I left it. You can hear it quite clearly on the intro. Overheads went through a McDSP MC2000 multiband compressor in an attempt to readdress the crash heavy / snare light balance, without it sounding unnatural. They then went through a Tritone Valvetone EQ - for thickening more than EQ'ing. The bass drum track was useless to me, basically because it didn't even sound like the same bass drum you heard in the overheads. In this instance I think it was a case of the wrong mic in the wrong place - it's just all low end thud and no tone - great for rock but useless for jazz. So, I used Drumagog to blend a similar sounding multisampled bass drum in to the bass drum track for the attack and body part of the sound. Without such a tool I'd have left it out entirely. Sax and trombone went through a dbx 165A and another Urei 1176 (can't remember which way round without checking the session) and again through some Focusrite ISA 85110's for EQ. Reverb was an EMT plate setting from Digidesign's ReVibe, and I also used iZotope Ozone3's multiband comp and widener on the 2bus. There's a bit of volume automation on the horn and vocal parts, and also the high end expander in Ozone, but none on any of the sends.

MIX 3: Band Akai (Guide Mix)
ITB. Very rough guide mix done by the band in their Akai DPS16 with minimal processing so you can hear more or less what we had to work with!

MIX 4: "musicproject"
ITB. Mixed on protools LE 7.1, quad amd optron 270 x 2 with 002R. My concept was to create a "time machine". Some filters on all tracks to take out the "hi-fi" feel that modern recordings have, inserted a tube vst on the brass, some light overdrive and comprresion on the bass. The vocal was going through a free plug in called "tube booster" wich have some problems with bounce to disk in protools but i managed somehow to print it. plus some urs eq and bomb factory comprresion and a lo-fi plug. Drums was again intreduced to the very nice "tube booster" and comprresed with a psp plug to make it "breath" a little. Panning - oldschool : drums on the right, bass on the left, gtr hard right vocal leaning to the left and brass as a stereo pair. Reverb and depth - using some room emulation on the brass, vocals and drums to get a more "clubi" sound to it and some spring reverb panned to the opposit side on the gtr to get a more deep and open feel to it. Mix buss - went through an amp moddeling plug to get that light grainy thing and then psp's mixprresor to stick it all together. I think in modern terms i totally [ ****** ] up the original tracks, but i tryed to go back in time and imagine how every instrument would be recorded back then and then give it a little polish to ecomedate the stereo field.

MIX 5: "Hugh"
ITB. Mixed in Logic using mainly Waves and Elemental Audio plug-ins. Waves Renaissance compressor with appropriate settings on guitar, sax, bass, kick, drums, trombone, Waves Renaissance Vox on vocals. All treated with various Space Designer presets - vocal plate, guitar room, bass booth, sax chamber, brass plate, big kick, bright drums. then some EQ on bass and drums. master buss reverb - Space Designer Short Plate, compressor - Waves RComp, EQ - EA Equium, Limiter - EA Finis.

MIX 6: Dave Lewthwaite
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1Gb RAM, Creative Audigy 2 Platinum Ex, 160Gb RAID-0 (Stripe) Project Disks, Behringer Truth 2030A Monitors, Yamaha MG16/4. Mixed in the box with Cubase SX and only included effects, control surface Behringer BCF2000 was also used. My aim (as a beginner) was to keep it as simple as possible, yet still aiming for a pleasing sound. Tracks were split into mono using Adobe Audition, apart from the drums, obviously, and converted to 16-Bit/48kHz to conform with my restrictive ASIO drivers. All that is on there is a little 2:1 compression on the vocals and again over the entire mix and a slight amount of reverb over the entire mix - and thats it! the rest is just level setting and pan. The effects were simply 'VST Dynamics' and the 'Roomworks' reverb. Exporting was a matter of hitting record in cubase to record the stereo output back to another track, then imported into Audition for normalisation and a quick tidy at the beginning and end, the track was then exported as MP3 44.1kHz 16-bit from Audition.

MIX 7: "dunch"
ITB. Mixed "in the box" using Sonar 5. The only non-Sonar plugin used was the free Blockfish compressor from Digital Fishphones. I monitored on Genelec 1029s + 1091 sub, and also a cheap old Sony hifi system. After I listened to the guide mix I decided I wanted something a bit more intimate, like you were listening to them close up in a small venue. Drums & Kick I compressed and eq'd till I felt they had a bit more punch and the kick was distinct from the bass. Bass was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Guitar was slightly compressed to even it out, no eq. Sax I eq'd slightly to make it a bit less honky. Trombone I eq'd to thin it out and stop it fighting with everything else, except when it was playing the solo part when I used no eq. Vocals I used no eq, but did compress a little. Listening back just now I'd like to back off compression a tiny bit. I added a plate reverb to the vocals (medium plate preset in Sonar convolution reverb). I varied the wet/dry throughout the song - pretty dry at the beginning, wetter as the vocals got louder. Everything else had varying amounts of room preset, again using the convolution reverb. I mixed fairly low, peaking the master bus at -4dB. No compression or eq on the master bus. Exported at 44.1K/16, using pow-r 3 dither from Sonar's mix bus down to 16bit. Topped and tailed then converted to mp3 using lame.

MIX 8: "stemwinder"
ITB. PC, ProTools 7, Digi002 (but mixed entirely ITB due to time constraints), PMC TB2s monitors, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP Master Compressor, DigiDesign DVerbt

MIX 9: "Mr Tom"
ITB. Mixed entirely in Logic 7.1, using no third party plug-ins, on Tannoy Active Reveals

MIX 10: "DarrenSW"
ITB. Mixed ITB using Cubase SL3.0 and no third party plug-ins. Have mixed it a little differently to others I've listened to, tried to stay away from the "Jazz must be almost dry" scenario by adding space i.e. reverb on Vocals; reverb and delay on the solos. Behringer Truth monitors and also little dodgy PC speakers.

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit"
ITB. 3.0GHz P4 with 1Mb RAM, M-Audio Delta-66, Cubase SX2.2, UAD-1 card, Behringer B3021 monitors (must get something better!), Wavelab V3. I didn't do anything fancy with the tracks like James but I split the files to mono in Waveleb (except the drum track) and converted the files to 24/44.1. I then edited them as much as possible to cut down on spill. Put a high and low pass filter on the kick to cut down on the hat/cymbal spill and take out some of the boominess and then added a touch of compression. I used 2 UAD Realverbs - one for vocals ( based on the wooden room preset which I like for vocals) and one for the brass and guitars (based on the jazz club preset - what else!). Most things had the UAD 1176LN compressor or LA2A limiter on them and I generally used the Pultec EQs on the tracks as well. I used the SX 'Q' filter on some tracks in a cut mode only. A bit of volume automation and that was it.

MIX 12: "Lime ZRX"
ITB/OTB (digital). Loaded into Cubase SL3 and mixed on a Yamaha 02R. Just used one reverb from a Lexicon MPX550. I cheated a bit and changed some of the music. There's a couple of places where the bass player uses the same note for ages, I pasted another note in to give the speakers (Mackie 824) a rest! I didn't like the way the drums fell in at the start, or at the very end, so I cut them a bit. Also, I know the kick has been slagged off, but I've stuck it in a few extra places just to make it feel wanted. The vocalist- really nice voice I think- had a habit of singing an "a" sound before some lyrics, usually "a- bewitched". Took them out. It was probably a really important part of the jazz feel of the song and I'm going to be sued. Also, there was a wee pop on the first "simpering", so I took that out. I reallly must get out more... Oh, and I moved some of the guitarists chords a bit, and a few brass bits. I do have the TC Electronic Finalizer in the 02R, but as others haven't resorted to mastering, I didn't touch it.

MIX 13: "Herewego"
ITB: P4 2.66, 1 gig ram. Cubase 5, extra plugins were PSP Vintage Warmer, hydratone EQ, glaceverb (free) reverb, and waves rennaissance vox on the vocal. Monitored on Studio Precision Active 8 monitors, Koss headphones and crappy PC speakers. I decided the important thing for me was to get an intimate vocal sound, as it seemed to suit the performance and the song. First - Imported all the tracks and split them into mono, even the overheads. Things I probably should not have done, but they seemed right to me: 1. Tuned the bass first of all - yes all of it. I thought the tuning generally of all instruments was slightly loose, so if the bass was 'right' it might help give a good foundation. 2. Tuned a few vocals bits, nothing major, happy to leave some pitchy moments, it was more some of the passing/grace notes that I tightened up a tad. For tuning I use Melodyne Uno. 3. Fixed the guitarist's 'fluffed' chord in the intro. I think/hope he'll thank me. Kick - hated it, applied some EQ and compression, but I also looked up an SOS article about replacing an audio part with a midi one. Drumagog would have been nice actually! It took an hour, I learnt a new technique, and mixed a midi (JV2020) kick in slightly behind the original to help it out a bit. Overheads - left alone except small compression, some eq to lift the tom/snare range a touch compared to the cymbals. Bass - a bit of compression, some eq. Sax solo - eq to mellow it. Trombone solo - left alone. Sax/trombone (excepting the solos) - I grouped them, a touch of eq on the sax, a bit on the group. Guitar - one eq for the intro section and last chord, another for the rest to leave more room for the bass. Touch of reverb. All the 'band' was grouped and had a touch of reverb, the Glaceverb freebie (it's a bit of an odd plugin, but I like it in some situations and it seemed to work here). Voice - lovely vocal! I tuned a few notes that I felt were probably due to the pressure of doing lots of tracks in quick succession. Rennaissance Vox to compress, plus some eq from Hydratone to brighten and warm slightly, touch of reverb from Glaceverb. Plenty of fader automation, especially raising the level at ends of notes and the lower registers, eg the "dered" of "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered", to try and keep it sounding intimate. Generally a few bits of automation on the faders, and some Hydratone EQ and compression using PSP Vintage Warmer to glue the mix slightly. This is not what I usually get the chance to do, so it presented some unusual challenges for me - which I thoroughly enjoyed!

MIX 14: "CharlotteL"
ITB. AMD 2.0GHz laptop, 768MB RAM, Edirol UA-20X and Cubase SX3. It's been mixed in-the-box using Cubase and its included plugins - Q, Dynamics and Roomworks. I've tried to keep the whole thing quite clean sounding - I thought the untreated recording sounded pretty good as it was, TBH. I'm rather annoyed with the situation I found myself in with regards to monitoring, though, so please forgive any glaring bass issues - my KRK fund is still a good month away from completion so this has been mixed on a combination of headphones, my hifi speakers and the Behringer Truth B2030A's in my (cube-shaped, untreated) office at work. Usually I'd have checked this on the Genelecs at Uni, but obviously it's summer so I was stuck with what was to hand.

MIX 15: Guy Johnson
ITB. Mixed in Logic 7.1 on my just-out-of-guarantee iMac – All Logic plugs except some Tritone EQs and a couple of Altiverbs. Monitoring with some PMC TB2+ loudhailers (powered by a Carver PM 1.5 amp) and a REL Stadium sub. I didn't mind the drums too much, as they have a bit of that slightly boxy, muffled 'jazz' sound – except the OTT cymbals. The kick needed some work, and I thought the tracks were all phase-inverted, so I fixed that. The hardest thing was the vocal – there are some nasty compression artifacts and what sound like edits, that spoil it a bit for me, though I tried to cover them with the band! I just went for a natural-ish sound that I liked, rather than mix 'jazzy' (whtever that is) . I found myself enjoying the mixing, using quite a lot of volume automation in the end. I did no editing or arrangement-changing. I put on a spot of 'angel dust' in WaveBurner, and converted to MP3.

MIX 16: "Song Doctor"
ITB, ProTools LE, with KRK Rockit 5's, and a nice high-back executive chair from OfficeWorks. With my mix, as I've never done anything with jazz, I tried to simulate the setup of a live jazz gig I saw recently. So basically the drums are panned quite left, and everything else spread out 'beside' it. The reverb from the kit and voice etc is panned to the right, as this something I noticed happening at the jazz gig. I have a little bit of overdrive on the guitar, and some compression and EQ here and there. Overall its a bit of an experiment.

MIX 17: "Itinerant Baker"
ITB. AMD Athlon XP 1900, Soundblaster sound card being monitered on (decent, old, and well known) Technics speakers (and checked on headphones - haven't been able to burn a copy for the car or other systems). Sequenced in Tracktion using various plugins. Wavelab used for wave editing and transfer to mp3. I've tried to get a sort of live jazz band feel without being retro. I remember seing footage from the Montreaux festival or somesuch when I was a yout with people like Miles Davis, and I've also got a few live jazz lp's, and that's the sort of sound I've gone for here. I used Wavelab to seperate the samples that where paired off, and also to normalise them and manualy gate some of the spill and breath from the vocal track (which is how I normaly do vocals - never got on with gates). Guitar and drums where more or less left alone, just run through Digital Fish Phones Blockfish, with Kjearhaus Audio's Classic reverb on the kick to give it a bit of stereo width. I've kept the drums quite low in the mix, and aimed for the kick drum to be felt when it really hits, but not really heard. Would apreciate anyone's comments on wether this has been successful. The guitar is also deliberately quite low in the mix I also panned it slightly to the right as the vocal had got a tendancy to hang to the left which I can only put down to one of the plugins it was proccessed by . Bass is left alone, with an MDA Limiter to tame it slightly. For the brass I took a slightly different aproach and wanted to play with the way they sound a bit. I've put the sax through Bojo Softwares BJ Flanger, and then through Blockfish to level out the flangeing a bit. I've tried to keep it subtle and not dissapear into the realms of space jazzz. For the Trombone I used a Big Tick Dual Delay, which gives a nice Rico 'The Man from Wareika' sound, which had to stay in. I also panned the sax slightly to the left and the trombone to the right. The vocals was the bit I had the most to do to as I wasn't completely happy with the way it sat or the sound. I decided to try and make it a bit more gritty. None of the overdrive plugins I tried made the right noise (I always find them too digital sounding, which is ok sometimes, but not for this.) After rumaging through my vst effect folder and trying all sorts of things I decided on the Palancaware reverb plugin, set to the 'library' preset, and to beef up the bottom end I used the MDA Multiband Compressor - which together warmed it up nicely. It still didn't sit right in certain parts so I put it through yet another instance of Blockfish to try and make it push through a bit more - I know, not exactly best practise chaining compressors like that, but if it works it works, and sometimes it does! This time it didn't work quite enough. The singer was still being a bit drowned out a minute or so in. I looked at the sound spectrum of her vocal using Inspector from Elemental Audio and decided to cut everything else slightly at about 400hz to let her through, this worked nicely in one bit but not another, I tried a second sonic scoop centred around 2khz but couldn't get it to sound right. Eventualy I decided to leave the cut at 400 in and to automate the vocal level throughout, which made a few other parts sit more comfortably. This also allowed me to take Blockfish off the vocals.

MIX 18: Chris Poulter
ITB. Mixed in PT, using Liquid Mix and D-Verb. Monitoring on KRK V6's.

MIX 19: "LDGuy"
ITB. The mix was done in the box in Sonar 5. I wanted to get as sweet a sound, and as professional sounding as possible. I tried to be sparing with effects - there was a Sonitus EQ on each track (if i recall correctly, some tracks may have been left alone), and then a Waves TrueVerb the sax, trombone, and vox were sent to. The rest of the mixing was with faders. The guitar was put through a bit compression to even it out, but the only other compression used was at the end with a little bit of PSP Vintage Warmer to bring the levels up. There was also another EQ at the end to give it some spice. This track isn't mastered, but then again i dont think it particularly needs to be. The level is sufficient in my opinion. I used Event ALP-5 monitors and the Bose system in a Mazda 6 to get a range of environments. The computer was an Inta-Audio Custom Built model, dual 3.2ghz Pentium 4, 2GB RAM. This track was also mixed wearing sandals, and drinking a glass of Hoegaarden Whitbier.

MIX 20: Giles Parlett
ITB. Mixed ITB (Home built AMD 2500 / 1.5 GB / EMU 1212m / Sonar 3) And used Audio Note Class A Valve M2/PS2Se / Es System to Monitors). Had to drop the kick. Gated vocal and brass, Compressed and Eq'd everything. Added Tube warmth to vocals, guitar and whole mix and plate reverbed everything but the bass. Little bits of fader adjustment through the song for vocals and guitar. Endorphined the lot at the end.

MIX 21: "JumpeySpyder"
Mixed ITB using Sonar 5 and bundled plug-ins. (about 8 hours in total) Alesis M1 active mk II monitors in an untreated 3 x 3 x 3 room. I had lots of trouble mixing this track - I usually play with synth / industrial stuff that I don’t have to worry about sounding unnatural, but I’ve really enjoyed myself. What I’ve done:- I manually stripped out a fair amount of spill - I’m not sure if I’ve done enough but it would be easy to spend a lot of time here. Major EQ happened on kick + trombone. I’ve added a little gentle compression (hopefully) on most of the tracks to even things out and a sprinkling of reverb to vocals and solo parts. I found the point where the brass first came in very tricky and couldn’t make it sit right. In the end, I couldn’t get it right so I tampered with it. It’s still not right - sorry. Also at this point the trombone sounded a little out of tune to me ( its probably ‘one of those fancy jazz things’) I might have meddled with some Autotune if I had it. I also couldn’t resist adding a little edge to the guitar with an amp simulation. I’m expecting to be bottom of the pile, but looking forward to seeing what everyone else has done and hopefully getting some pointers.

MIX 22: Adam Miller
ITB. Another one mixed in Cubase (SX), mainly using the Waves plugins- in particular Rencomp and a couple of IR1 convolution reverbs. I also used a couple of URS eqs, and the Sonalksis compressor gently over the whole mix. I used a fair amount of automation to make sure the mix 'pushed' in the right places. The mix was done on my Mackie 624s, and cross-checked on my mastering-grade (obviously) Tannoy Reveals. I used an L2 just to bring the highest peaks up to zero.

MIX 23: "phatriff"
No info yet.

MIX 24: "Laurent Prod"
No info yet.

MIX 25: Graham Sullivan "LRS"
ITB. The mix was done in Tracktion and also mastered in Tracktion with the Final Mix mastering plugin via my RME Fireface into Quested F11a monitors. I haven't done a lot to the tracks other than to compress the drums a bit plus boost a little in the highs for the cymbals, work like hell on the kick sound with both compression and EQ, EQ the bass slightly to take away some of the muddiness (I'm surprised that it was DI'd because it doesn't sound like a DI'd track but being a jazz player he's probably had the same strings for the last 20 years!), compress slightly and add reverb to the horns as a group plus some group automation, rolloff a bit of bottom on the guitar and boost slightly in the 1K range (also more automation), vocal - already overcompressed I felt, all I did was add a bit of verb - probably a tad too much.


DAW's used: ProTools 4, Logic 5, Cubase 7, Sonar 4, Tracktion 2, Akai DPS 1, Unknown 2. Total = 25


GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!

Edited by James Lehmann (04/08/06 07:33 AM)


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333592 - 02/08/06 08:11 PM
Yes, well done Darren and well done James. Most enjoyable. It even got the wife interested!


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LRS
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Joined: 23/04/03
Posts: 187
Loc: New Zealand
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333638 - 02/08/06 10:11 PM
Oops looks like I've missed the cutoff. However feel free to include my mix if you want. If you do I will post some info.

You can hear it here http://www.lakesiderecordingstudio.co.nz/Samples.htm

Cheers
Graham
www.lakesiderecordingstudio.co.nz

Edited by LRS (02/08/06 10:29 PM)


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Hugh
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Joined: 03/06/04
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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: LRS]
      #333652 - 02/08/06 10:49 PM
Right then... what's next?!

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333669 - 03/08/06 12:26 AM
One last one put up (LRS), 25 mixes now.

Also I've added a "stream all" option for anyone who fancies an endurance test ;-)

Darren


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musicproject
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Joined: 20/05/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Israel
some info on my mix... new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333695 - 03/08/06 06:32 AM
ok, i took my time but here it is :

mixed on protools LE 7.1.
quad amd optron 270 x 2
with 002R.
monitors - yamaha msp-10


my concept was to create a "time machine".

- some filters on all tracks to take out the "hi-fi" feel that modern recordings have.

- inserted a tube vst on the brass.

- some light overdrive and comprresion on the bass.

- the vocal was going through a free plug in called "tube booster" wich have some problems with bounce to disk in protools but i managed somehow to print it. plus some urs eq and bomb factory comprresion and a lo-fi plug.

- drums was again intreduced to the very nice "tube booster" and comprresed with a psp plug to make it "breath" a little.

panning - oldschool : drums on the right, bass on the left, gtr hard right vocal leaning to the left and brass as a stereo pair.

reverb and depth - using some room emulation on the brass, vocals and drums to get a more "clubi" sound to it and some spring reverb panned to the opposit side on the gtr to get a more deep and open feel to it.

mix buss - went through an amp moddeling plug to get that light grainy thing and then psp's mixprresor to stick it all together.

i think in modern terms i totally [ ****** ] up the original tracks, but i tryed to go back in time and imagine how every instrument would be recorded back then and then give it a little polish to ecomedate the stereo feild.

sorry on my english.

i will be happy to have some comments.

nice work on everybodei's mixes.

very musical.

and to you james - well done on bringing this project to life.

music project

Israel.


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333700 - 03/08/06 06:57 AM
The reponse to this has been absolutely amazing - 25 mixes, which is far more than I anticipated when I first posted the WAV's!

I think that SOS should definitely take a look at what has gone on here and in view if the interest it has generated maybe it might be some sort of pointer to more organised or sponsored 'Mix-Offs' in the future, perhaps via the DVD. Could it even become a regular slot? One thing that come to mind is that it might be a much more worthwhile way of winning a nice piece of new gear, or even a free subscription or something, than just filling in a boring competition form with three easy questions! (Notwithstanding the problem of finding someone brave enough to sit though 25+ mixes of the same track and make a selection!)

Either way, I think for most of us the 'competitive' nature of this exercise has been largely eclipsed by the general sense of fun and challenge of taking part, which is just fine by me. The interest is chiefly in participating and hearing the other results - what artistic choices people made and who has done what with which gear. A lot of what this Forum is about is yattering about gear (make no mistake, I myself am often guilty of talking more about gear than actually using it!) so I think this exercise was great in forcing people to roll their sleeves up and get back to work on a 'realworld' challenge with inherent limitations, a fixed deadline and clearly-defined parameters (often difficult to set when working on your own stuff).

If anyone is still interested I plan to attempt posting some of my own necessarily brief comments on all the mixes later on but in the meantime...

It's been fun, folks!

Once again many thanks first of all to The Ah-Q Arkestra, and in particular my mate Dave (band-leader, guitarist and session engineer) for giving permission to use their excellent playing and material for this Mix-Off. And of course to Darren (aka "stemwinder") for his tireless work and generosity in setting up a special website for us and updating it regularly!

GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND/OR STREAM ALL THE MIXES!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333742 - 03/08/06 08:53 AM
OK - here's some of my thoughts on all of this!


Overall problems:

Drums: Most of us agree the drummer probably is a little too busy on this particular track. This makes the problems with the drums even more important to fix. The drums were individually miked and pre-mixed to stereo (bar the kick). Clearly the snare, and toms have been mixed way too loud so that's problem number one, followed closely by the incessant harshness of the swingin' cymbals (Rode NT5's - aargh!). A wide dynamic range too necessitates finding a balance between 'listenability' and too much compression. Automation needed for solos

Kick: the problem here is that the sound is so awful it's hardly useable, and yet it forms an important part of the groove at certain points so you don't want to cut it completely. A real dilemma! You may have noticed the kick was about 217 samples behind compared to the overheads & horns - this needed correcting. Automation needed for solos

Bass: Probably the easiest instrument to deal with - a nice rounded tone and pretty consistent playing. Automation needed for solos

Guitar: The guitarist has recorded very dry with a nice basic tone thus leaving any polishing to the mixing stage, ie a bit more 'presence'. Occasional too-loud chords need dealing with and a little volume regulation required at various stages of the song. Automation needed for solos

Sax: The clip-on mic does give rather a thin tone and apparently he "kept forgetting to adjust it" which accounts for some wide tonal shifts, so you'd be looking to try to create some mid warmth and body to the sound with EQ, as well as taming the harshness. Automation needed for solos

Trombone: Similar situation to the sax, but the tone is naturally 'rounder' than the sax and not as shrill so a bit less work to do here and the playing is pretty consistent. Automation needed for solos

Vocal: It's a lovely take though but does contain some harshness on some of the higher notes that proved difficult to fix. Problematic also because the tone and volume she sings at in after the solos is quite different from that of the beginning - obviously she moved a bit in front of the mic during the solos! She has a lovely low range to her voice that I know from other songs, but this one is in a slightly higher register, so she sounds a bit 'thinner' than she is otherwise capable of. There's a hint of 'boxiness' to inherent on the mic (AT4033) anyway that needs a couple of small EQ notches as standard I find. Automation needed for beginning and end.


Other issues I was looking out for:

Panning: Largely a matter of taste but I did feel in this case that the trombone and the sax should be on the same side to create the impression of a horn section. It's true the guide mix from the band had them on opposites sides but I'll soon talk them out of that! Some folks panned the bass to one side, some reduced the width of the drums. I think it was important not to put the guitar too far away from the vocal, and I also felt the guitar should be on the opposite side from the trombone as these two instruments had a similar range.

Instrument Separation but retaining a cohesive 'Band' feel - Aside from fixing the individual instruments, the problems of which were apparent to anyone who downloaded the files, the instrumental build-up at 0'51" was a key indicator of how your mix worked overall, in my opinion. There should be a really exciting instrumental swell when she starts singing "Well I lost my heart" - I was looking for power, dynamic and unison, but not to lose sight of the individual instruments.

Bass too loud - the old chestnut of mixing on smaller nearfields in imperfect rooms was apparent here multiple times!

Low-mid mud - a perennial problem! Some careful LF cuts needed to clear out the low end.

Vocal too loud - a very tricky one to balance, and it can come down to personal taste but again accurate monitors are the key to getting this right. You want a bit of compression but not too much as there was already too much going into the raw file. I usually favour automating the vocal level thoughout - not that I claim to have got it precisely right!

Drums not 'sitting right' with the rest of the instruments - I reached the conclusion this is practically insoluble, given the cheap mics used on the kit, I would thoroughly recommend anyone looking for overheads to investigate other possibilities than the NT5's!

Too much reverb - fell into this trap myself, so I went back and fixed it on the final version I sent to the band. I think "Not enough reverb" almost qualifies too - there is a point at which it's all just too dry.

Clicks, pops, false edits & other technical issues - basic mistakes creeping in suggests that some folks didn't double-check their mp3 files before sending them.

MP3 conversion - in my opinion, this affected all of us by altering the bass slightly, making the high end a bit brittle and messing with reverbs. So comments applied there, including to my own mix, may well be down to this!


NOTE: Please don't take anything I say personally - I've tried to listen to everyone's mix at least twice (which took me several hours) and my comments are written down as I listen. I have tried to be honest, spontaneous and objective with my feedback, perhaps at the expense of being polite or tactful, but I've criticised my own mix too - feel free to do the same! I'm NOT the self-appointed mix-guru or best critic, so please weigh in with your own feedback on as many mixes as you can manage!


MIX 1: James Lehmann Too much reverb on everything, guitar too loud in 2nd verse, vocal too loud in 2nd verse and at end, bass perhaps a shade too quiet in places, drums a bit too loud.

MIX 2: "Vinylizor" Much too much low-mid boost on vox which is also too loud, muddy, ringy reverb on vox, drums sound distorted

MIX 3: Ah-Q Arkestra Guide Mix

MIX 4: "musicproject" Funky attempt to sound like a 50's era record! Interesting!

MIX 5: Hugh Conway Too much low cut & reverb on vox, drums muddy, horns thin and too much reverb, bass too loud, sax too loud compared to bone

MIX 6: "dunch" Vox a bit too dry, horns too quiet & muddy, extreme drum eq & compression, no dynamic in build-up, bass too loud, awful kick.

MIX 7: David Lewthwaite Horns too thin and quiet, no low end, over-compressed, vox a bit dry & too loud, no dynamic build-up, tom problems, cymbals harsh, guitar on same side as bone.

MIX 8: "stemwinder" Vox too loud & dry and a bit too breathy, bass too loud, horns too far apart.

MIX 9: "Mr Tom" Quite warm vox, too much LF cut on guitar, bone too loud, drum spike problems and a bit muddy, kick sound not too bad but too loud, sax too thin and distant, vocals lost at end.

MIX 10: "DarrenSW" Reverb on vox too long and ringy, vox a bit harsh, no warmth in vox, lack of low mid warmth, muddy, kick too loud, sax lost, bass too boomy, way too much reverb/delay on sax & bone.

MIX 11: "Wonkey Wabbit" Quite a nice Jazzclub feel. Kick way too loud, low end muddy, bass lost, vocal ok but too loud at end, mix perhaps a shade too dry, I'd pan the bone a bit further out to get out the way of the bass and guitar.

MIX 12: "LimeZRX" Vox very harsh & ringy, kick too loud, drums boxy, horns not bad.

MIX 13: "Herewego" Pretty good. Horns panned apart but sound nice, too much low cut on guitar which also sounds like a mandolin, drums nice maybe too compressed, vox a bit too loud at end. Can I hear autotune working here?

MIX 14: "CharlotteL" Too much LF cut on drums & grainy-sounding, bass too loud, sax sound too processed and too dry, ditto trombone, vox a bit dull, harsh and too loud at end, not a nice reverb on vox & horns, fade out too abrupt, guitar needs more presence, whole thing over-compressed.

MIX 15: Guy Johnson Bass too loud, low end very muddy, vox a bit buried but nice smooth sound, drums reduced stereo and a bit boxy - not really 'there', disasterous kick(!), good solo sax but a bit loud, trombone too thin, guitar too loud at end, odd noise at end.

MIX 16: "Song Doctor" Very odd-sounding reverb on right side only, bass way too loud and distorted, vox too loud and harsh, sax lost in mix & too much reverb but bone too dry, major glitch at 1'45", too much compression on vox.

MIX 17: "Itinerant Baker" Bass WAY too loud, vox a bit too dry & harsh, trombone panned right on top of guitar, guitar too quiet, sax solo sounds awful with flanging and too dry, delay on trombone highly amusing but not really fitting!

MIX 18: Chris Poulter Guitar a shade too far out on right for my tastes, no power in build-up at 45", vocal a bit thin and too loud, horns thin - no power in the build-up, drums too loud, harsh and toms very loud.

MIX 19: "LDGuy" File corrupted or some other weird problem - space invaders start landing at around 0.28"!

MIX 20: Giles Parlett Vox sounds very autotuned and over-processed, guitar a bit scratchy, horns sound like they're in bathroom, toms too loud, low end mud, bass lost, noise at end.

MIX 21: "Jumpeyspyder" Start needed trimming, is the guitar chorused, drums absent, too much reverb on sax which also moves around stereo field during the song, the stop and start edits would get you fired from the job by the band!

MIX 22: Adam Miller Not bad vocal but too 'breathy', guitar too far out for my taste, bone sounds like it's in a different room to the sax, disaster vocal edit 2'33" leaves the vocal a beat behind for the remainder of the song!

MIX 23: "phatriff" Sounds like singer is locked in a cupboard under the stairs, bass too loud, good build-up, nice mellow sax, vox too loud at end, guitar needs automating - it's too loud in the solos, a bit too dry overall but otherwise ok.

MIX 24: "Laurent Prod" Is this supposed to be another 'old-school' style mix? It's almost completely lacking in low end at all and very harsh. Sounds like a 64kbps mp3! Sticks at the start unwanted, horns way too quiet.

MIX 25: "LRS" Destructive Glitch at 0.07". Too much reverb on voice, horns too quiet, drums to shrill but low end reasonably well controlled, almost got a kick sound there(!), bass too loud, drums, bass & guitar all too loud in solos. Overall sound a bit brittle but not bad.


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SongDoctor



Joined: 26/03/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Rockhampton, Australia
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333747 - 03/08/06 08:59 AM
may be an idea to download all the mixes, run them alongside eachother in your DAW so you can solo / compare everyones more easily

then you may only need to listen to it 23 times...


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333842 - 03/08/06 11:20 AM
OK, since I have a bit of time I'll post a run down of my quick comments. To echo others, good job everyone - I think there's some very good work here and I would think the band would be very happy with many of the mixes.

I found it hard to compare some of these given the different levels, some with master bus compression and some not, different mix objectives etc etc. So I just reached for the volume knob to get a subjectively similar level for each track and wrote what first came to mind. I didn't try to A/B any mixes - I don't have that much time! I'm listening on Genelec 1029s + sub. Bear in mind I'm being picky, showing my predjudices and inexperience, and reserve the right to change my mind on another listening!

So anyway, enough procrastination:

Mix 1 - James Lehman: For me the reverb tail on the vocal was a bit long, and too much reverb overall (but then I generally mix drier than most people). Cymbals tend to dominate the drums, maybe a result of the compression settings used? Also the kick seems missing in action?

Mix 2 - vinylizor: Smooth sounding, good overall balance and the vocals (the key performance part in this track) are nicely to the fore. Quite "hot" but then you say you've used a multiband on the master bus. There's a bit of hiss evident on the left channel in the quiet intro part (from the guitar channel?), the drums are a little low for me from time to time, maybe a bit too much high frequency roll off?

Mix 3 - Band Akai: Vocal reverb sounds like a small room preset, makes it sound a bit boxy, "dead" and slighty removed from the rest of the track. Sax solo a bit loud compared with the vocals. Lacks the "sheen" of the previous 2 mixes. The ending is too abrupt, losing the decay on the cymbals. Pretty good guide mix though!

Mix 4 - musicproject: This one is slghtly difficult to comment on given your objective of making it old school and lo-fi.. On my speakers the overall sound is actually a bit edgy with quite a lot of upper mid/top end, not quite as middly as I was expecting. For a 50's sound I would have looked for a smoother sounding plate reverb on the vocals and rolled off more at the top end overall. The mix balance is generally good, although I would have the bass and kick up a tiny bit, and brass solos less prominent. Bass is panned left slightly?

Mix 5 - Hugh Conway: This starts off as a nice open sounding mix, but then I found the guitar and brass were starting to dominate as the track progressed and wanted to hear more of the vocals. Also some of the drum energy is lost along the way - some might say a good thing!

Mix 6 - dunch (me): I suspect that everything will be far too dry for most people and listening in the context of the other mixes I'd agree with that. Plus all the other obvious faults (overcompressed drums, vocals), I'll leave others to enumerate.

Mix 7 - dave-lew99: A nice mix in my opinion, everything works together and compliments the music well. I'd have liked to have heard more kick and a tiny bit more bass, but because everything else is working so well this didn't stand out as a real problem for me. Cymbal decay is cut off a bit quick at the end.

Mix 8 - stemwinder: Another very nice mix with all elements working together well. Vocals nice and upfront, solid bass, balance of brass,guitar and vocals good, drums driving but not overpowering. The only tiny point I can make is you left the background noise in at the very end!

Mix 9 - Mr Tom: Lots of energy from the drums in this mix, almost a bit overpowering at times. The vocal/brass balance is generally good. The hiss from the guitar channel is evident the beginning and there's maybe too much guitar throughout. But nice to hear a mix with a positive approach to the drums, most of the others so far seem to have been a bit frightened of them..

Mix 10 - DarrenSW: The mix with the kick! Yet another good overall mix with good dynamics, although I might have knocked the kick down a bit myself. Not sure the panned delay/reverb on the sax solo works that well, it's kind of out of place for this kind of track IMO.

OK I have to take a break now...... coffee needed.... (walks round kitchen singing "those ants that in-faded my pants, too bad, finis"...


.... right, back to it!


Mix 11 - Wonket Wabbit: Nice laid back mix. I like the intimate sound you've gone for there. Drums & Kick maybe a bit overpowering at times but that all adds to the dynamics, and maybe I'd have pushed the vocals up front a bit more in couple of places.

Mix 12 - Lime ZRX: Vocals have a slightly more breathy quality than most of the other mixes which is nice. I wasn't quite so convinced by the additional kicks - this might have worked if you could have made them less boomy, but on my monitors these sounded like they were recorded in a church! Guitar a tad light during the brass solos so the jazz rythmn suffers a bit as a result. Personally I didn't have a problem with the extra bass notes, but bass players are notoriously grumpy, so watch out!

Mix 13 - Herewego: I started out liking the overall sound of this mix quite a lot but as it progressed I felt it had somehow lost some of its dynamics. Not in the vocals, but the rest of the band seem to be holding back? Maybe the brass solos need to come up a tad to keep things going, and a little more drum energy?

Mix 14 - CharlotteL: Overall the balance between instruments sounds good, but one thing that jumped out at me is the stereo spread - the drums seem mono (was that a conscious decision?), and the brass is panned fairly near the centre. Nice vocal sound and levels, and I think you achieved your objective of keeping it all clean-sounding.

Mix 15 - Guy Johnson: Initially had problems listening to this - not sure if my connection was playing up or what, tried a few times but at about 20 seconds it sounds like it's going under water. If I start the track at 20 seconds it seems to play OK - wierd. Anyway distractions aside, this seems a well balanced mix, if a little on the bright side. The brass sometimes overpowers the vocals for me. And you left the background noise on at the end!

Mix 16 - Song Doctor: I found the reverb on the vocal a bit distracting at the beginning - too much room sound and the panning a bit odd (just checked your notes and this is intentional so fair play). Bass comes in a bit strong and dominates throughout. I don't object to the positioning of the drums but I think panning the reverb to the same place might have produced a more coherent result. Interesting experiment...

Mix 17 - Itinerant Baker: As it started I thought "now here's a nice dry, intimate sound, kinda thing I like" - then whoah! Steady on that bass fader there neddy! Really too much bass, made it difficult to judge how the rest of it was working. The Sax solo sounded slightly phased, and delayed trombone quite a brave move!

Mix 18 - Chris Poulter: This mix has a nice light touch overall, everything in its place, with good dynamics. Kick a bit low but that's all. For me, nice job, ready to master! (I assume the vocalist comments left in at the end were intentional?)

Mix 19 - LDGuy: Quite a hot mix in general, but still retains dynamics. Good instrumant balance, brass maybe a little loud, drums a bit subdued. Vocals sit well and the performance comes though well. Strange phasey sound (e.g. around "I lost my heart..."). Sounds like it's on the drum track but checking your notes you've flanged the brass so that must be it.

Mix 20 - Giles Parlett: This mix starts well, OK vocals a little too much reverb for my taste but most people won't object. All of the instruments are balanced well, couldn't really pull the kick out of the mix but lots of people seemed to have ditched it anyway. A bit too much going on in the lower mids though - toms and bass sometimes conspire to overpower? Also, background noise left in at end.

Time for another break... that coffee has worked its way through... "hmmm, hmmm, worship those trousers that cling so fine..."

Mix 21 - Jumpeyspyder: Quite sparse sounding mix, drums pretty low, kick quite prominent. For me, the guitar is a little too bright for the jazz stylee, and ducking the bass in and out was too dramatic an effect, more of an interruption than a musical statement.

Mix 22 - Adam Miller: Good mix, good dynamics, vocals properly to the fore, overall balance is nice. But - what is happening with the vocal timing after the solos? She seems to increasingly lag behind the rest of the band. Plus, background noise left in at end.

Mix 23 - Phatriff: Kind of comparable to my own mix in the use of reverb I think - pretty dry and I must say having listened to just a few versions of this today I can't make up my mind whether it's refreshing or lacking somehow. This is even drier than mine! The Sax solo does seem a bit like it needs pepping up a bit. Instrumentally balance is OK although tonally I would prefer a bit more sizzle on the cymbals to brighten up the top end.

Mix 24 - Laurent Prod: Overall tonally very bright, too much so for me, especially for a jazz track. Delayed panned guitar does add some interest but again not sure it works with this track/genre. Brass too subdued and the solos need to come forward/up in the mix? And background scratchy noise left in at end (with added delay!)

Mix 25 - Graham Sullivan: oooops - that's Laurent again unless I'm very much mistaken! Looks like a cut and paste error on the page... OK streaming the entire playlist and going to the end gets me Graham. Nice mix there, well balanced, good dynamics, and apart from the glitch at the beginning a good one to finish on!


OK - that's it. Phew.. That took far longer than I expected.... pretty much the whole morning.... I'm off to get some fresh air. Looking forward to other people's comments....

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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Mr Tom
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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333867 - 03/08/06 11:54 AM
Ok some more info on my mix:

As already mentioned it was done in Logic 7.1 and monitored on Active Reveals.

I'll start by saying that I really can't stand this type of music - which is beside the point, but it means that I never listen to it, so I don't really know what it's 'supposed' to sound like.

The drums being all bundled onto two tracks and an awful sounding kick track was obviously a problem we all suffered with. I basically tried to let them do their own thing with minimal compression etc. (the kick was filtered/EQd a bit more heavily). I didn't want to process all the life out of them. I panned the kit across the stereo image a bit, but not hard.

The bass was no problem really - it was compressed and EQd a little using just the standard Logic Channel EQ and Compressor.

The guitar. I hate that wooly, muffled, bassy sounding kind of guitar (let the bloody bass make that nose!) so I tried to inject some life back into it using Logic's Guitar Amp Pro with a cleanish bright setting (can't remember the details). Tonally this pretty much did what I wanted (while compressing/overdriving it a little at the same time), the downside was that it added a fair bit of hiss (mainly audible over th intro verse) - but like I said - I hated the sound of the guitar before so the hiss was a small price to pay! I panned the guitar left to about where the guitarist would stand on stage. I boosted the guitar level a little until the rest of the band come in as I thought it was a bit quiet behind the lone vox.

The brassy bits were compressed a little and EQd to try and make the sax sound a little brighter and the trombone a little mellower for contrast. I panned them both to the same side to give the impression of a brass section the opposite side of the stage to the guitar.

The vox were compressed and given a little EQing and I know she goes a bit quiet coming out of the solo but I couldn't really make up my mind what to do about it and in the end didn't really do much at all!

The only reverb used (in varying amounts on all but the kick and bass) was Space Designer. The preset was called Jazz Club or something like that - it sounded appropriate! I was aiming for a natural sounding reverb.

Being used to mixing stuff to sound like Trent Reznor or Marilyn Manson kind of production this was something a bit different and somebody who listens to jazz would probably think 'what the hell is he trying to achieve?' - but do I care?



I have now listened to all 24 mixes (not the 25th yet) - a gruelling session in one sitting! I might skim through again and refine some comments.

Tom

--------------------
My Little Project


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: adrian_k]
      #333873 - 03/08/06 12:05 PM
oh yeah, general comments -

most people brightened up the guitar a tad too much for me and drums/kick not really satisfactory from anyone.

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333886 - 03/08/06 12:26 PM
I listened to my mix lots of times after I submitted it and after reading what other people had done to the drums and decided that the kick was too loud and I could do better with the drums so I did another mix which sounded better and answered some of James' comments, but didn't bother re-submitting as I felt this was unfair. I purposly didn't listen to anyone elses mixes before doing my own. As mentioned, the bass could have been more distinct but I thought it was an upright (rather than the electric it turned out to be) so left it fairly much as was. Had I known beforehand it was an electric (fretless I presume), then I would have spent some more time on it.

I'll now have a go at a mk 3 version taking on board these comments and see what I can do! Thanks James.


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: --]
      #333902 - 03/08/06 12:45 PM
Quote Wonkey Wabbit:

I listened to my mix lots of times after I submitted it .... so I did another mix which sounded better ... but didn't bother re-submitting as I felt this was unfair.




Yes me too. I do regret leaping in with that first mix but there we go. If anyone can bear it I'd appreciate comments on my final attempt at some point? Happy to return the favour..

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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SongDoctor



Joined: 26/03/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Rockhampton, Australia
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333930 - 03/08/06 01:54 PM
Haha, I just read the little joke on you're posts Adrain, amusing. Its funny how some musicians think its true...

Thanks so much for taking the time to give feedback like that, much appreciated. I agree that my panning of reverb is a bit off-putting, I would have changed it if I had another listen to my mix, but I was 'in the zone' at the time, haha.


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CharlotteL



Joined: 06/07/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: SongDoctor]
      #333948 - 03/08/06 02:16 PM
Many thanks to James and Adrian for the comments - this has been a really useful exercise for me and good fun too! I'll be giving the mix another go with your criticism in mind.

It'd be great to see this turned into a regular feature of some sort - I think I'm another one guilty of spending too much time researching equipment and not enough time actually using the stuff I've got!

Thanks again guys,
Charlotte


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Yorkshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #333951 - 03/08/06 02:24 PM
Quote James Lehmann:


MIX 21: "Jumpeyspyder Start needed trimming, is the guitar chorused, drums absent, too much reverb on sax which also moves around stereo field during the song, the stop and start edits would get you fired from the job by the band!





James thanks for taking the time to listen
Yes, I did add some chorus to the guitar, I also duplicated the track and added some gentle amp simulation to brighten the guitar on one part then I panned the two parts 40% Left & Right to add a little stereo interest.
(my personal taste probably getting in the way of the musicians intention here!! )

I'm not sure what I've done wrong on the start and end edit could you be more specific thanks ??

Quote dunch:


Mix 21 - Jumpeyspyder: Quite sparse sounding mix, drums pretty low, kick quite prominent. For me, the guitar is a little too bright for the jazz stylee, and ducking the bass in and out was too dramatic an effect, more of an interruption than a musical statement.




Dunch, fair point on the guitar I knew I was being a little naughty
I only used gentle compression and a some EQ on the bass I'll have to check my mix again to find the problem you're talking about.
Thanks for the comment I appreaciate you taking the time.


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Hugh
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Joined: 03/06/04
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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Jumpeyspyder]
      #333982 - 03/08/06 03:33 PM
Many thanks both for the comments.

In answer to James, I agree, it's not perfect, but I was sort of aiming for the things you have said you dislike, as I was comparing it to the early Ella recordings which were often made in similar conditions on similarly badly placed equipment. I don't know whether that changes the way you view it at all. Interestingly, I removed the Kick Drum track and no one seems to have noticed. The only Kick Drum sound is bleed into the other microphones.

In answer to Dunch, it's interesting that you found the horns to dominate whereas James found them too thin, I guess the vocals is personal taste. Being young I think I may have grown up in an era where we 'hide' the vocals behind the band as many modern singers are truly awful (definitely not the case here!). The lack of energy from the drums was indeed a concious decision as they were too busy in my opinion. However, if you listen to old records of this sort of music, it is not unusual to here busy, quiet drums (often only mic'ed with overheads or not at all) over the modern preference for extremely closely mic'ed drums that are necessarily less busy.

Anyway, all in all a very interesting and enjoyable exercise, can't wait for another. Thanks to all involved.

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Jumpeyspyder]
      #334005 - 03/08/06 04:20 PM
Quote Jumpeyspyder:

I'm not sure what I've done wrong on the start and end edit could you be more specific thanks ??



Sorry - wasn't clear. It's the way you cut the bassline suddenly when she sings "Well I lost my heart" around 0.58"!


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: adrian_k]
      #334019 - 03/08/06 04:43 PM
Quote dunch:

Mix 1 - James Lehman: For me the reverb tail on the vocal was a bit long, and too much reverb overall (but then I generally mix drier than most people). Cymbals tend to dominate the drums, maybe a result of the compression settings used? Also the kick seems missing in action?



Agree on the reverb thing - now fixed in my newest version. Was the other way around with the drums - I selectively compressed the toms using a frequency conscious compression to stop them sticking out so much. But as you and others have pointed out the cymbals were a pain for all of us - maybe they were still too loud in my mix! The kick is most certainly in there but pitched very low so you may need a sub to hear it - check out the end of the sax solo around 2.00" for some kick action. I think it sounds pretty nice actually and does help the groove in places, bearing in mind what we started with, although I'd agree it isn't all that natural and won't be heard on many systems.


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Hugh]
      #334024 - 03/08/06 04:52 PM
Quote Hugh:

I removed the Kick Drum track and no one seems to have noticed.



This was a very possible option I discussed with the band leader for all the tracks after we both agreed the kick sound was awful. Obviously many great jazz recordings have no such mic, but given that there would only otherwise be a pair of overheads (and not very good ones at that) I suggested using the spare track for a kick, as a shite sound here can really hinder a recording but a good one can help it subtely.

I'll let Dave take it from here!...

"Don't get me started on the [ ****** ] kick drum. My position was to take the head off, put a pillow in and close mic it. OR cut a hole in the drum head. But no... [text removed by JL for prudence, suffice to say the matter was 'discussed' with the apparently rather purist drummer!]. The bass drum sounded like CRAP to my ears so I knew we were not going to get any better on tape. The mic was a good kick drum mic, but again, CRAP in CRAP out. Sorry about that, there will not be much you can do about that."

The crazy thing is there's other quite funky tunes in the session that desperately need that kick to be groovin', so not having a decent kick to work with was a major handicap and I think adversely affects the rhythm of these pieces - something you would have thought a drummer would be keen to bolster! Anyway, after a couple of hours work I think I was able to salvage something of a compromise - I hope the band are happy with it!


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PrinceXizor
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Joined: 30/01/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334050 - 03/08/06 05:25 PM
Not to hijack this thread (and much to James's chagrin, my only pair of SDC's are NT5's! ) anyway...I anticipate a similar problem with our drummer. It's possible he may be a little more responsive to the "here's how your drums sound recorded...crap isn' it?" line of reasoning. But, can you cut a hole in the bass drum head yourself? How do you go about doing this? Does it affect the tonality? Etc.

P-X

--------------------
My Home Studio Build Thread


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David Lewthwaite



Joined: 09/01/05
Posts: 627
Loc: On the Wirral these days
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334053 - 03/08/06 05:29 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for the comments James, the point about cutting the reverb tail is fair point - i was just a little overeager when i trimmed it in Audition - the Cubase mixdown has the full ending.

As for bass, i always thought my setup was bass-light (behringer 2030As) but on playing all the other mixes, they seem to have overpowering bass, so i toned it down on mine, maybe just a little too much.

It just goes to show - a simple mix with little in the way of processing can still sound good, (although i did turn the kick way down....)

--------------------
David Lewthwaite, www.lewty.org.uk, dave@lewty.org.uk


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334064 - 03/08/06 05:46 PM
James/Darren

Any chance of letting us all do another mix in light of the comments and posting them again to see if we are capable of self-improvement? If the comments are correct and we take note then we should end up with 24 identical mixes!

Also, where's the Paul White mix rescue version?


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: --]
      #334076 - 03/08/06 06:09 PM
Quote Wonkey Wabbit:

Any chance of letting us all do another mix in light of the comments and posting them again to see if we are capable of self-improvement? If the comments are correct and we take note then we should end up with 24 identical mixes!



Well, it's up to Darren of course, as he's the guy who has to do all the leg-work here! But I would say can you not post your own mix somewhere? I think that's what I'll do and just link it to this thread.

The deadline was fairly arbitrary but I didn't want the whole thing to drag on too much.

At the same time I think it's great that folks (including me!) have gone back and remixed the thing - it seems this project has really engaged people on a very productive and positive level. I'm quite proud of that!


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Hugh
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Joined: 03/06/04
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Loc: Edinburgh
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: --]
      #334081 - 03/08/06 06:14 PM
What are people's thoughts of making this a subscription series - just enough to cover costs of hosting, preparation of material, remuneration of band's expenses, etc. That way we should be guaranteed a decent spread of material on a relatively regular basis. I think that this is so important, because as CharlotteL says, it's actually remarkably difficult to get hold of decent, royalty free material, so we all end up spending more time buying more equipment than actually using it.

--------------------
Music is the only noise for which one is obliged to pay.
(Attrib. to Alexandre Dumas)


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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Hugh]
      #334102 - 03/08/06 07:07 PM
I'd be up for it.


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: stemwinder]
      #334105 - 03/08/06 07:22 PM
Quote stemwinder:

Also I've added a "stream all" option for anyone who fancies an endurance test ;-)



He-he - anyone dared click that yet? LOL!


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334110 - 03/08/06 07:31 PM
James - Well done: A marathon effort! Must have been . . . an interesting experience, doing all that listening. As to your comments, I thought they were very fair.

I suppose a few comments from me might be useful, about my effort:

Yes, the kick was horrid in my mix, but masochistically, I kind of liked it like that: I hear so many jazz kicks that sound like poo!

Interesting point about the brass being too loud – I suppose from a singer's point of view that's true, but when listening to a band, the brass will almost dominate a singer sometimes. It's one of the exciting things about that kind of band, that rawness and power of the brass.

I basically mixed it to make it sound a bit like a band on stage, including the inevitable slightly 'puddingy' and cuddly bass. In retrospect, I'd have tarted up the kick a bit, and done some automation on it – basically to have it louder, and a bit (!) nicer.

There was mention of the noise on the end. Well, I nearly put in the count at the beginning as well! I'm weird like that...

Guy

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #334124 - 03/08/06 08:06 PM
Quote Guy Johnson:

James - Well done: A marathon effort! Must have been . . . an interesting experience, doing all that listening.



Yes - was quite an effort, but still fun and I felt it was the least I could do given I had created this monster in the first place!

So far only me and "dunch" seem to have made it all the way through - any other takers?

Perhaps because I'm on holiday right now I'm the only one who's had the time! LOL!


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LRS
member


Joined: 23/04/03
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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334153 - 03/08/06 09:12 PM
Hi guys

Just to let everyone know my mix was done while I was waiting to be picked up and to go to a function yesterday so was a little rushed. So much so that I haven't even listened to the MP3 file which apparently has a glitch. So I'm sorry about that - I ran out of time.

Anyway the mix was done in Tracktion and also mastered in Tracktion with the Final Mix mastering plugin via my RME Fireface into Quested F11a monitors. I haven't done a lot to the tracks other than to compress the drums a bit plus boost a little in the highs for the cymbals, work like hell on the kick sound with both compression and EQ, EQ the bass slightly to take away some of the muddiness (I'm surprised that it was DI'd because it doesn't sound like a DI'd track but being a jazz player he's probably had the same strings for the last 20 years!), compress slightly and add reverb to the horns as a group plus some group automation, rolloff a bit of bottom on the guitar and boost slightly in the 1K range (also more automation), vocal - already overcompressed I felt, all I did was add a bit of verb - probably a tad too much.

I must listen to it sometime.

All in all a lot of fun and would love to do more sometime.

Cheers
Graham
www.lakesiderecordingstudio.co.nz


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Jumpeyspyder



Joined: 20/01/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Yorkshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334166 - 03/08/06 09:50 PM
Quote James Lehmann:

It's the way you cut the bassline suddenly when she sings "Well I lost my heart" around 0.58"!




Thanks James (eagle ears) this must be what dunch was refering to - I didn't do that on purpose.
I'm not sure what happened..

..Maybe it was the bass fairies they must have stolen a few notes

OOops I must have taken a few note out when I was 'cleaning' the bass

I've listened to nearly half of the tracks and I intend on listening to them all
James & Darren this has been lots of fun thanks making this happen!

Can I just add my voice to the more Mix-off projects please!


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334210 - 04/08/06 01:12 AM
In the interests of hard work, I've gone and listened to them all. All comments made in the best possible spirit! The mixes I liked the most I put an asterisk after the blurb. Here goes:

James Lehmann: Nice vocal and 'verb – but I'd have a bit less of the reverb, though. I'd like more of the lower toms and more kick, even if it is a bit odd: Good enough fer jazz! Nice brass, but I'd have a wee bit more bite to the 'bone. The song swings nicely. *

Vinylizor: The voice is too compressed in the beginning, I think, the 'well I lost my heart' and the other bits were the band gets louder: does not sit with the band. I love the deeper breathy notes on the voice. I liked the drums, and the brass.

Ah-Q: Instantly like the voice (but a tad too much?) with that touch of reverb. Nice balance, except for me the guitar was too out front and thin. Again I'd like more drums.

Musicproject: Startling ambience, not too keen! The voice seems to disappear when the band gets going. Don't like the ambience on the brass. I think because these ambiences are a bit OTT and arn't on the drums or bass... The drums I like, apart from that bloomin' crash we all had probs with. The "am I" at the end was the most stomped-on yet. ( I thought Lime, David L and James were good there )

Hugh Conway: Not sure about the reverb on the voice - it calls too much attention to itself, and the voice a bit loud? I like brass and guitar coming in. Again, too much rev. on the sax and on the 'bone. I like the drums.

Dunch: Mmm. Nice and . . . Close! Like the drums, too. This close mix is my fave of the genre. The stick hits come across well! I'd like more of the 'blappy' brass bits. *

David Lewthwaite: Intro nice vocal, but I'd have a bit more guitar. Reverb sticks out sometimes on the vox. I found the sax a bit honky, and a nice smooth 'bone. The drums swing nicely. The cymbals get chopped. *

Stemwinder : Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well. *

Mr Tom: Good beginning, but too much guitar for me. Nice rhythm brass. The 'bone was a bit too plummy for me.

Darren SW: Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well. *

Wonkey Wabbit: Like the 'band' - sounding intro. Drums nice, with plenty of that jazzy 'plastic storage-box' kick sound to the drums we all know and love: perhaps a bit too much of that? Nice brass. *

LimeZRX: Again I like the vocal treatment. I like the low tom/kick, but too much of a good thing! Nice brass. *

Here we go: A wee bit too much rev on the voice? Too much drums a 1/3 of the way through. Band swings nicely, I'd put more top on the trombone. A bit more voice, in places.

Charlotte L: Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well.*

Guy Johnson: A wee bit too much rev on the voice? Too much drums a 1/3 of the way through. Band swings nicely, I'd put more top on the trombone. A bit more voice, in places. *

Songdoctor: Nice vocal, wee too much glassy reverb? Too much bass, even for me! The vocal glithches were all there for me. I like the up-front drums. The sax has too much reverb for me. Nice 'splatty' and real-sounding 'bone. The guitar is a tad too distorted.

Itinerant Baker: Ooh! another dry one. Too much bass. It also distorts in a nasty way, though this could be conversion artifact. And voice is too loud. Dub Trombone-bone-bone-bone-bone I like it . . . but not here! Most eccentric mix.

Chris Poulter: I instantly like the voice with the slightly sizzly reverb. Maybe the voice too low in the louder bits. I'd have the sax fatter, and a bit louder, and the bass down a bit in the brass solos. The band is nice and bouncy. 'My Pants' got lost a bit. Not the best 'Am I'

LD Guy: A very loud and compressed vox with a glassy reverb. Too much 'verb on the sax and 'bone - although it suits that instrument better. More bottom on the drums, and rather compressed overall for me.

Jumpy Spider: Liked the voice and 'verb. Not sure about the chorus on the guitar. Funny dropouts . . . I noticed the odd glitch I had so much trouble with at 1:15 and a bit. Funny, some tracks have not a hint of that. Lummy! Sax compression, or what!!! Wee to much 'verb on the bobe, and by contrast too little on the voice.

Adam Miller: Like the beginning, possibly a wee bit trebly. The 'well' at 51 seconds could have been louder. I like it do far . . . now the solos . . . I'd have the sax fatter with less reverb. 'bone nice. *

Phatriff: I like the close-and-cuddly sound. But less so when the band starts. Again too much guitar which sounds a bit honky to me.

Laurent Prod: Don't like the treatments on the voice or guitar at all. Quite like the EQ on the voice giving the singer a "tired red-lipsticky with lank-black-hair-and-too-thin look" ! Like the drums, but a touch too much kick.

Graham Sullivan: Again too much reverb on the voice, and a not-nice one at that! Quite like the drums; with a bit more bass in the loud bits. Nice solo section. One of my faves for that part of the song.

Phew! That was a bit of a mammoth session with me typing as it went. I tried to be objective, and comments were down to taste somewhat, and also what the style of music can take; in effect it's a king of classical music now.

I had bunged the tracks into iTunes and confusingly, the tracks all came up in a different order, and some had extra info, so now I'll sort the numbers and names out, as I don't know who half of them are!

Sorting it out took a whil . . . Bloomin' iTunes! I should have been more careful, and put the one by one into a new playlist.

Of to bed. Now, where is Teddy?


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James Lehmann



Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2011
Loc: Europe
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #334235 - 04/08/06 06:25 AM
Quote Guy Johnson:


Stemwinder : Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well. *
Darren SW: Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well. *
Charlotte L: Nice powerful beginning, and nice drums too, and I like the low notes on the voice. Good brass. The band lollops along well.*



Hey - easy on the copy and paste there Guy!


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334278 - 04/08/06 09:02 AM
Hi all,

if anyone wants to send me a remixed version of their tune I will put them up on the website REPLACING the older versions and I will mark the mix with a "(V2)" to show that its a new one.

Use the sos@liquidbughunt.co.uk email address, and don't forget to let me know your mix number or forum handle!

Edited by stemwinder (04/08/06 09:02 AM)


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334283 - 04/08/06 09:12 AM
Oh Bollocks!!! It was 2 in the morning. Average it all out, folks. Sorry


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334294 - 04/08/06 09:31 AM
A few comments on the mixes. I don't really want to talk about specific mixes but what I like and don't like about the approaches people have taken to the mix.

Firstly my mix...

For me, the mix was all about the vocal, supported by the bass. I know James found my vox too loud but that's the way I like it in Jazz!! [nice!] I EQ'd a bit of bottom into the vox and pushed it through PSP's Vintage Warmer (single band) to warm it up a bit.

For this mix I wanted to pan L-C-R... James thought that the horns were too far apart but a lot of the jazz I listen to has very wide panning and I felt that this was the way forward for this song, and I am happy with the result. The horns were pushed through a tube saturator to give them some hair (apart from the vox there was no EQ used - just different saturators/compressors to impart character).

The drums were problematic, way too much cymbal in the 2 track mix and definitely the crappest kick sound I have heard in a long time!! [not nice!] I disagree with James about the Rode NT5s - they are a competent (budget) SDC and if they are put in the right place can give good results.

The bass was pushed through PSP's Vintage Warmer (multiband) and was mixed front and centre (I play bass and do like it up front).

I used a medium plate reverb (low passed) sparingly, and put a PSP Master Compressor on the mix buss (1.4:1, 2-3db reduction) to smooth it out. This is a cracking compressor and well worth a look.


The other mixes...[YMMV]

- Too many of the mixes had the drums front and centre and, to my ears, compressed/limited too heavilly. Great for rock, but not for jazz (they need dynamic range).

- Some of the mixes were washed in reverb, not my cup of tea, and definitely no place for delay (or phase, flanger or chorus) here!

- Didn't feel there was any need to edit the mix


In the immortal words of Louis Balfour:

Louis Balfour: What are you going to play for us today, Jackson?
Jackson Jeffrey Jackson: Trumpet.
Louis Balfour: No, er, what tune?
Jackson Jeffrey Jackson: [indignant] Tune? This' jazz!

[nice!]


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adam miller



Joined: 02/08/06
Posts: 84
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334356 - 04/08/06 11:15 AM
Thanks for ignoring my rather egregious vocal editing cock-up Guy. I appreciate it


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: adam miller]
      #334551 - 04/08/06 05:43 PM
Quote adam miller:

Thanks for ignoring my rather egregious vocal editing cock-up Guy. I appreciate it






Isn't 'egregious' a great word, though?


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PWGLE



Joined: 04/05/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: UK - Cardiff/Bath
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: CharlotteL]
      #334595 - 04/08/06 08:40 PM
Quote CharlotteL:

Quote:

why is the lead vocal a semitone out in the last passage before the end? Or is that jazz?




I think that's just a jazz thing... it doesn't sound like it was a mistake, and from the standard of the rest of the performance I'd be surprised if she was that far out by accident.




Its intentional for sure, Jazz is built around 13th's which by nature have everynote of the scale in them. She's not the best singer in the world, but its not a semitone flat!

Laurence

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?


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PWGLE



Joined: 04/05/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: UK - Cardiff/Bath
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Designnotes]
      #334621 - 04/08/06 11:14 PM
Spent a couple of hours yesturday and tonight to produce my humble attempt!

I accidently moved all the automation on the whole track by 1 second, and didn't relise as I was working on a looped section, by which time it was to late to undo! I've adjust a more of it, but there's still a few bits of automation which aren't quite right....

Bass track automation needs tidying - maybe becomes to loud towards the end?

Vocal - Dynamics?

-

Have any of you heard the Charlie Parker version of this, its on the album 'Warm and Tender' its rather lovely!

I think I'm going to have a mix-athon tommorow and listen to all the mixes so far! Thumbs up to James for doing this! and Thumbs up to all the people who've done it! Good show lads!

Laurence

*edit* forgot the link!

Right click, Save as target.

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

Edited by PGWLE + Polly the Parrot (04/08/06 11:15 PM)


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Lemon Tree Audio



Joined: 04/08/06
Posts: 4
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334675 - 05/08/06 01:44 AM
Aargh. What with difficulties loggin on (having to reregister as Lemon Tree Audio and hence now wanting to be known as the artist formally known as Giles Parlett), having relistened to my mix and agreeing with the comments made, and then being left off Guy Johnson's review, my therapist and I have decided to battle on regardless.
I shall post V2 when the hurt has gone.

In the meantime a big cheer to James and Darren, well done for a great idea and slick operation.

Cheers

TAFKAGP

Giles


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Belfast
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334714 - 05/08/06 08:27 AM
Quote James Lehmann:

MIX 12: "LimeZRX" Vox very harsh & ringy, kick too loud, drums boxy, horns not bad.



Quote dunch:

Mix 12 - Lime ZRX: Vocals have a slightly more breathy quality than most of the other mixes which is nice. I wasn't quite so convinced by the additional kicks - this might have worked if you could have made them less boomy, but on my monitors these sounded like they were recorded in a church! Guitar a tad light during the brass solos so the jazz rythmn suffers a bit as a result. Personally I didn't have a problem with the extra bass notes, but bass players are notoriously grumpy, so watch out!



Quote Guy Johnson:

LimeZRX: Again I like the vocal treatment. I like the low tom/kick, but too much of a good thing! Nice brass. *



Because of this thread I've had three people here listen and pass comment on something I've mixed. That's three more than usual!
Even though my dreams of being the best music mixer in the world now lie in shatters (right beside the one about being the greatest guitar player) this has been a load of fun. I got to spend a few hours with my toys, had a reason to actually finish something and knew that others were facing the same challenges.

I'm sure something similar will happen again, but I suspect there'll be lots more people taking part and it'll propably get too unweildy- who's going to listen to maybe a hundred versions of something!

It's been good to have been in on this one. As others have said, big hand for James and Darren for the work. It's been great crack.

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.

Edited by Lime ZRX (05/08/06 09:11 AM)


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334726 - 05/08/06 09:03 AM
Again apologies for my er... mixed-up reviews. I think I had pasted the whole of the wrong document - - I'd been trying to put the reviews in the correct order after I'd let iTunes move them all about randomly, and of course trashed the proper one with the reviews in the right order. If I feel brave, I'll do it properly next week!

Embarrassed of West Wales.

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334829 - 05/08/06 02:40 PM
I've just uploaded my V2 mix (thanks Darren).

It's a bit wetter, the bass is a bit louder (I also reamped it through UAD's 'Nigel'), the kick is now heavily edited to just get the initial thud and the rest of the drums brought under more control. I automated the volume on a lot of the over-loud cymbal hits and brought up the volume on some of the quiet snare only sections.

The bass didn't seem to have anything above 500Hz in its spectrum so I assume the tone pot was rolled almost off on it. This a made it difficult for me to try and get any definition in the sound. Rolling off the bottom end to reduce the wooliness didn't leave much else above it. Re-amping helped a bit but only added a bit more definition. The bass is the bit I'm least happy about. When playing back at different volumes it sounds too quiet at some levels and too loud at others.

I moved the horns together (rather than on slightly opposite sides as I did previously) and panned the bass to the left slightly. I automated the vocal levels a bit more so they should now sit above the mix at all times.

There is a touch of mastering applied as I wanted to add a bit of overall reverb.

I only just resisted the temptation to add a 'Fast Show' style "Nice!" at the end.


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #334934 - 05/08/06 10:45 PM
Hi all,

re-mixes from Wonkey Wabbit and Hugh Conway are up, along with a new mix from PGWLE.

Enjoy,

Darren

Edited by stemwinder (05/08/06 10:45 PM)


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Lemon Tree Audio



Joined: 04/08/06
Posts: 4
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #335276 - 07/08/06 06:28 AM
V2 mixed and sent.
My therapist says I am ready to hear some critical analysis of it so please add any comments.

The main differences in approach to mixing this one: using headphones as well as monitors, clearing out as many plugins as possible, actually listening to it, and not thinking "oh that'll do" at 2 in the morning.

Hopefully my therapist is right and I have made some progression.

Cheers

Giles


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adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: Lemon Tree Audio]
      #335503 - 07/08/06 04:18 PM
Right, finally got round to tidying it up, V2 has been posted.

Main differences:
- increased attack times on compressor on drums and vocals to let them breathe
- bit of work on the bass and kick. Last time I mixed on my main monitors, then checked on cheap hi-fi speakers and thought it too light at the bass end for general consumption. Bumped up the bass & kick but didn't re-check on main monitors (:o)
- brought the brass up a little. I had wanted to keep them out of the way of the vocals but had overdone it before
- switched the sax to a plate reverb instead of room - sounds smoother
- general fiddling around re-balancing, and a bit of level automation in a few places.

Now off to listen to the other V2's

cheers
Adrian

--------------------
getting better all the time..


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #337736 - 12/08/06 10:15 AM
Hi all,

new (V2) mixes are up from Giles and Dunch.

Cheers, Darren


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stemwinder



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 98
Loc: gloucestershire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #342032 - 21/08/06 02:02 PM
it's back!! James has posted his V2 mix.


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4406
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: James' Summer Mix-Off - want to have a go at mixing this Jazz Standard? (WAV's posted) new [Re: James Lehmann]
      #342163 - 21/08/06 06:56 PM
Hmm, best to join in the V2 jamboree, as all you peeps are doing it. Still a bit busy, so don't know when...

Guy

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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