Bought mine on Friday, and a 2GB card. So far I have used it:

as an audio interface for my laptop when I DJ'ed at an 18th birthday party,

to record my four of my brother's songs featuring acoustic piano playing and vocals, using the built in stereo mic,

to record my 9-month old son's gurglings,

for headphone bass practice, using the Fender Bassman amp modelling,

as a guitar tuner, as a metronome, as an effects unit,

and as a 4-track.

Sound quality is good, including the amp sims and effects. Build quality is solid. As a four track it is fairly easy to use, and will get easier, I'm sure: I've never had a similar kind of device. As a stereo recorder it could hardly be simpler: recording the piano and vocals involved putting it on its stand, and then clicking the record button twice: that was it.

I have not yet had a chance to try out Cubase LE (bundled) or to use it for its phantom power mic preamps, or to use it as an audio input for my PC.

Easily the best £191 I've ever spent on audio gear.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Wow Richard - where did you get it for that price?

I've got an Edirol R-1, and while it's a neat little recorder, it has one serious flaw for me :

The "input level" on the side is erroneously referred to as "mic gain" in the manual. In fact, there is no control over the mic gain. So, if the sound you are recording is loud enough to distort the microphones (fairly easy when recording a rehearsal with a three-piece "rock" band - my main reason for buying it) then attenuating the input level merely results in a distorted signal recorded to the memory card at a lower level.

I'd be really interested to hear how the H4 copes with a loud source such as a band rehearsing in a small rehearsal studio. If it functions ok like this, I'd be very tempted to flog the R-1 and switch to the H4.

Thanks for that fun piece of news!
When you have time to plug in some mics, let us know if you have good gain, phantom power, and not too much noise.

I have not used it to record my band yet, but I'll be doing that this week. We are a loud band. I've read reviews online that say it works fine for band rehearsals. I've always used a Tandy PZM into a Creative Jukebox 3 with good results, but it's fiddly to set up, doesn't always record in stereo properly, and the backlight's gone so the H4 is my solution.

Got it at Sound Control, Mosely Street, Newcastle upon Tyne... Shay Graham (no relation) is your man.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Sound Control is selling it for £229 on their web site, so you did well to get it for £191 (even £229 is the cheapest I've seen in the UK).

Quote Richard Graham:

---

I have not used it to record my band yet, but I'll be doing that this week. We are a loud band. I've read reviews online that say it works fine for band rehearsals.

---

Great - if you could report back with how it went in this kind of situation, that would be much appreciated. If it works ok, I think the R-1 will be going on Ebay very soon.

Cheers!

Having read this thread with great interest, I had to go and buy one of these, superb, Ive been looking for something like this for ages to replace my minidisk, the audio interface is a great bonus, the Phantom power works well, I tried recording some acoustic guitar with a small condenser mic, very quiet with plenty signal, a great little tool.

Thought I'd let everyone know that the H4 has been tested by Mondongo and found wanting.

The internal mics and/or pre-amps crap out at high volume levels, even with the mic gain set to low. You can set the recording level as low as you like and you hit a brick wall, above which all the transients get clipped. So say if the record meter is peaking at -6, it will be pretty much permanently at -6 while the song is playing, as if you'd put a brick-wall limiter across the inputs. It still produces a useable sound for listening back to a rehearsal, but it isn't a good recording, in fact it's poor.

I tried moving the H4 as far away from the amps and drums as possible, but it was just as bad (possibly worse due to a bass proximity effect from situating it near a wall).

Next week I will try my trusty PZMs in the mic inputs, and let you know the results.

Apart from this the H4 is still an excellent little tool, and I've had a lot of joy this weekend using it as a 4-track. In fact it is more like an N-track, because even when you bounce, it keeps the original files, and you can then load the whole lot into Cubase LE (supplied). So for instance I had 9 unbounced tracks on the song I recorded, you keep bouncing and adding them in the H4, but then load the originals into Cubase and mix to your heart content.

So I'm far from unhappy with it, but I wish Zoom could've made it so it could cope with live heavy metal.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

That looks remarkably similar to Ant's post about the R-1. Interesting.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com

I've jumped the gun somewhat, and already flogged the R-1.

I was reading the reviews on ZZounds, and a couple of folks on there report good results recording loud rock rehearsals. I can't remember offhand if they mention whether they were using the internals or externals.

Bit of a dilemma, this.

Richard - is it actually distorting, or just hard limiting? If it's hard limiting, I could probably live with it. But the R1 definitely distorts with loud sources.

Maybe you could chuck an excerpt of a recording up somewhere? If that's not too cheeky a request

Edited by ant_chapman (06/11/06 12:35 PM)

Not enough juice for the pre-amps from the batteries, maybe? I could try it with the adaptor, see if it is any better. It'd be handy if there was a built in pad, but it seems not. Maybe a firmware update could fix it, depending on how the thing's put together and where in the signal chain the clipping is occuring. You'd think they would have field tested it with a bit of rock though!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

Richard - is it actually distorting, or just hard limiting? If it's hard limiting, I could probably live with it.

---

It's distortion. Not fizzy distortion, but a severe 'crapping out', not unlike when you used to over-load a cassette tape, if you ever did that: it sounds like analog distortion I think. The recordings are useable for reference, but it isn't good, nice or benificial distortion/limiting.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I've got one on order. I won't be recording any rockous rawk... but I do sometimes record noisy stuff in the big outdoors. Shouldn't be a terminal problem anyway.

I was wondering of these little beasts share some architecture or even parts that makes this kind of thing happen?

Have you thought of fitting tiny earplugs to the mics?

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www.bemuso.com

OK, just for reference - I've put an excerpt of an R1 recording of a loud three piece band from a rehearsal on my webspace :

www.knuckleheads.co.uk/r1.mp3

This is recorded using the internal R1 mics, set to Dynamic mode (although with this kind of source, both modes sound pretty much identical).

I haven't normalised the excerpt, so if you put it into a wave editor you can see the problem with the R1 - the input level pot merely alters the recording level POST the mic preamps. In this case I reduced the input level until the meter looked fairly calm, and all I got was quite distorted music at a low level.

Maybe you could try getting a couple of the Shure in-line pads and using an external mic? This things have a selectable attenuation of 15, 20 or 25 dB, and are very transparent. I use them all the time.







Also, is there a line in feature where you could use external mic pres? This might help for situations where some other option was available.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

BTW... I just listened to the MP3 that you posted. It reminds me of the old days (late 70's?) when we used to record our practices with old cassette players with built-in mics and auto leveling.

Truly horrible!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

I have just ordered one too. I'll be checking it out at band rehearsal Thursday evening and a pub gig Friday evening.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

If the gain control doesn't have any effect then it is probably down to the power supply to the built-in mic capsule not being high enough. There is also the remote possibility that you have a faulty mic capsule. It might be worth contacting Zoom to see what sort of sound levels it is designed for. Theoretically you might be able to increase the supply voltage to the built in capsule but this would also increase the capsule noise and would invalidate any warranty. The inability to handle high levels is common with cheap electret mics.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Doublehelix:

---

Maybe you could try getting a couple of the Shure in-line pads and using an external mic? This things have a selectable attenuation of 15, 20 or 25 dB, and are very transparent. I use them all the time.







Also, is there a line in feature where you could use external mic pres? This might help for situations where some other option was available.

---

The H4 can use external mic pres, as it has combo Jack / XLR inputs. The Shure attenuator might help, but this along with always having to use external mics sort of defeats the object of using a supposedly all-in-one solution like the H4.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

...having to use external mics sort of defeats the object of using a supposedly all-in-one solution...

---

There is a version with stereo U87s, but it's more bulky and it does cost £3,200.

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www.bemuso.com

Just to be clear - when you say the gain is set to "low" are you talking about the 3-way switch on the side of the H4? I presume the software gain is some kind of digital gain stage (like the level setting on sony MD decks).

H4 is quite appealing, but this sounds a little dodgy!

Quote James Perrett:

---

If the gain control doesn't have any effect then it is probably down to the power supply to the built-in mic capsule not being high enough. There is also the remote possibility that you have a faulty mic capsule. It might be worth contacting Zoom to see what sort of sound levels it is designed for. Theoretically you might be able to increase the supply voltage to the built in capsule but this would also increase the capsule noise and would invalidate any warranty. The inability to handle high levels is common with cheap electret mics.

Cheers

James.

---

My guess is that it's the first input stage which is not metered. But who knows? I'm sure someone will shortly,

Quote Jeraldo:

---

My guess is that it's the first input stage which is not metered. But who knows? I'm sure someone will shortly,

---

With an electret capsule the first input stage is the FET inside the capsule - that's why I would guess that it is capsule related.

One thought - do you have phantom power on the H4? If so, you could try using one of those capsule in an XLR plug mics that have been discussed recently.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

To answer a couple of points in one go:

the mic input gain switch is set to the lowest level, and then the internal recording level is adjusted seperately.

using external mics IS an option, but obviously reduces the all-in-one convenience of using the H4 in this instance (recording very loud rock bands close up). And will the pre-amps still 'crap out'? If the problem is the capsule, then maybe not.

I still don't know if using the supplied wall-wart makes any difference. If so, then good, but still not ideal. I will try it.

here is a link to an mp3'ed snippet of rehearsal, so you can hear the distortion for yourself. It's mostly when the bass kicks in loud. Eddie plays through a pair of 4x12s using an Ashdown head. The H4 is a few feet from each stack and the drumkit. The distortion was non-existent, inconspicuous, or at least far less bad when it was just drums and guitar at the same levels and distances.

http://www.dtxperience.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=8&Board=DTXtremeIIS&Num ber=289983&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The fact remains that in MOST respects, the H4 is a very very useful piece of kit, at an affordable price, and there's currently nothing like it on the market.

I'm very glad I bought it.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Cheers for the excerpt, Richard. Definitely sounds better than the R-1 to me, so I think I'm still going to get one. Might call Sound Control in Newcastle and see if they've got any stock, as I'm going to be up there at the weekend.

Glad it was of use. It also makes me feel better to know that the H4 is much better than the Edirol.

For non-critical listening, the recordings I got using the H4 are ok, and I'd use it again for band-practice recording, with or without external mics.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I agree that this clip sound better than the one that was posted earlier... much less distortion, although still present.

Very nice!

Now who is that drummer??? RUBBISH I tell you!!! Burn him!!! (Just kidding!!! Nice job Richard!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Sorry, one more question - the web site says

"Included with the H4 is a windscreen to alleviate unwanted noise from turbulence and a tripod adaptor that allows easy mounting to a standard camera tripod."

Does the tripod adaptor fit on a mic stand?
Thanks

No, the tripod adaptor won't attach to a mic stand.

I actually like the tripod adaptor cos I can stick the H4 on a table or a chair or chest of drawers, with a little tripod I got with a cheap digital camera and never used, and I can swivel it or angle it as I like, without having to lug mic stands around. One of the best things for me about the H4 is it is very portable and inconspicuous, I can make recordings or practice bass or guitar in our living room without all the gubbins.

The H4 comes with a couple of bits of velcro that you can use to attach it to the tripod adaptor, but I don't bother because it's stable enough as it is. I'm sure you could use these to tie it to a mic stand.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Thanks for the reply - have just been browsing 'net and you can get a mic stand adaptor for the Edirol R-9 which looks like it goes from a camera thread to Mic stand threading - I guess this would be compatible with the H4 if I ever felt the need to stick it on a boom stand or something. Probably 3rd party adaptors available too.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

To answer a couple of points in one go:

the mic input gain switch is set to the lowest level, and then the internal recording level is adjusted separately.

---

First, I don't have one of these, so I'm purely speculating! There is a difference between mic trim and mic gain, and my suspicion is that the first device in the chain can't handle the input, even with the gain and/or trim switch/pot set to the lowest level. (Many pro and consumer kit has had this problem-remember the old Tascam portable DAT recorder?) Maybe Boss includes a detailed spec sheet-if they do, that should answer all the questions.

Yeah, it would've been nice to have a mic trim switch on the H4, to knock the signal down by 10 or 20 dbs. I think that would have been enough. But I suppose it would have added a few quid to the price. Mind you, it would be a few quid I'd have been happy to pay.

(too many would haves in this post, I know)

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Jeraldo:

---

There is a difference between mic trim and mic gain, and my suspicion is that the first device in the chain can't handle the input, even with the gain and/or trim switch/pot set to the lowest level.

---

I don't know if you saw my previous reply Jeraldo, but the first device in the chain is the FET in the electret capsule. Cheap electret capsules commonly have problems with high sound levels.

cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Indeed they do...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret_microphone

I just read the wiki article, where it says that electrets (can) rival condensers in all respects except for low noise. I didn't read where it said they were necessarily poor at recording high SPLs. In fact, the article even says they 'can even have the long-term stability and ultra-flat response needed for a measuring microphone'.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Mine arrived yesterday. I only had time for a quick play so I plugged in my MDR-7509s and sat down with an acoustic and recorded a track then some over dubs. The track arm/mute/select system is dead easy to use and makes for quick convenient tracking. My initial impression of the sound quality was very good. Rather disappointed with the tiny display. Menu stuff is a little fiddly, but once the thing is set up for the job in hand it's all pretty simple.

Stereo mode is a doddle to operate, nice friendly (big) record button starts and stops the recording process.

Interfacing with a laptop was painless and quick.

I'm hoping the 1GB SDs arrive today so I can record band rehearsal at 44.1/24 this evening.

Pretty pleased with it so far and haven't even unwrapped the manual yet.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

I see what you're getting at, but, electret types exist because this technology lends itself to low cost mass production; and even though they could be made better, the market at large doesn't require them to be.

I put the Wiki link in to support the fact that there is a FET built into the capsule as the first stage of amplication/buffering. There is only one FET in there, nothing more. The human race has yet to make a single amplifying element that is perfectly linear over it's full operating range. It doesn't have to clip to distort - just moved into a non-linear region by large signal excursions.

Or is the overloading heard with loud music deliberate? To stop people taking these things to concerts and getting bootleg recordings?

Quote James Perrett:

---

Quote Jeraldo:

---

There is a difference between mic trim and mic gain, and my suspicion is that the first device in the chain can't handle the input, even with the gain and/or trim switch/pot set to the lowest level.

---

I don't know if you saw my previous reply Jeraldo, but the first device in the chain is the FET in the electret capsule. Cheap electret capsules commonly have problems with high sound levels.

cheers

James.

---

Quote James Perrett:

---

Quote Jeraldo:

---

There is a difference between mic trim and mic gain, and my suspicion is that the first device in the chain can't handle the input, even with the gain and/or trim switch/pot set to the lowest level.

---

I don't know if you saw my previous reply Jeraldo, but the first device in the chain is the FET in the electret capsule. Cheap electret capsules commonly have problems with high sound levels.

James.

---

I don't know if you saw my previous reply, James, but I was not talking about the capsule FET or microphone output electronics. I'm happy to know of your experiences with cheap electrets. My experience with cheap electrets has been different than yours. I've used plenty and they've all been good to about 105 dB C weighted. (And the "original" Tandy PZMs with the high voltage batteries would go well above that.) We may have very different experiences leading us to very different judgments about what is loud.

It may be possible that two people have had different experiences. I was speculating on my experience, and said so. I also acknowledged that your ideas may on target, and I said that it might be something completely different.

By any chance do you think your experience and speculation should trump others' experience and speculation?

But it looks to me as if you'd rather quibble over semantics of the term "first input stage". I believe there are very few people who would ever associate the FET converter and microphone output electronics with a "first input stage." Commonly, the term "first input stage" is associated with preamps, mixers, recording devices and the like. I've never heard nor read of microphone electronics being referred to as the first input stage." I think it was clear what I was referring to, and it not some sort of mistake on my part.

I was merely offering an alternate opinion. I thought the boards were a place to exchange different ideas. But then that's just me.

Cheers

Quote Jim Y:

---

I see what you're getting at, but, electret types exist because this technology lends itself to low cost mass production; and even though they could be made better, the market at large doesn't require them to be.

---

Partly true, but that doesn't explain why some very high end (read very expensive) microphones employ that technology. Caveat: I'm referring to DPA, which in the past has used the electret design often. I don't follow the line closely, though, so may or not be true anymore. Earthworks also comes immediately to mind, but there may be a size factor there, as well.

Quote Jim Y:

---

Or is the overloading heard with loud music deliberate? To stop people taking these things to concerts and getting bootleg recordings?

---

That would be creative, but I think they'd position something on all the inputs to insure distortion, and then I don't think they'd sell. And they'd have to answer the question, "What is loud?" Evidently that question has been asked and answered in some EU countries (witness the flap over the iPod volume).

I'm hoping that manufacturers don't read your post, you never know......

Edited by Jeraldo (11/11/06 08:31 PM)

I'm sorry that you took my posting in that way Jeraldo - I was only trying to point out a techincal fact and was in no way trying to contradict any of your experience. In fact, my experience with the Tandy mics has been similar to yours but I've also used various cheap electret mics that sounded great at low levels but would distort at high levels.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote James Perrett:

---

I'm sorry that you took my posting in that way Jeraldo - I was only trying to point out a technical fact and was in no way trying to contradict any of your experience. In fact, my experience with the Tandy mics has been similar to yours but I've also used various cheap electret mics that sounded great at low levels but would distort at high levels.

Cheers

James.

---

Thanks, James. I'm sorry my reply was a bit (?) on the testy side. And I do agree completely, if the very first thing after the capsule is not performing, nothing else will either. And then everything else in descending order. I will resolve to be nicer.

You have my apologies!

Jeraldo

I picked up an H4 at the weekend. First thoughts :

Really impressed with the internal mics on field recordings, and even on a bit of voice recording - although a mono mic is almost always going to be more appropriate for straight voice stuff.

My SM57s and Rode NT5s both sound really nice through the XLR inputs. Guitar and bass both sound totally serviceable through the onboard mic models. Tuner and metronome are both an incredibly useful addition.

Am I right in thinking that using 4 track mode is the only way to record a true mono signal?

Band practice on Thursday, so will give that a shot then.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

Am I right in thinking that using 4 track mode is the only way to record a true mono signal?

Band practice on Thursday, so will give that a shot then.

---

In stereo mode the H4 will always record a stereo track but you could consider that to be 2 mono tracks.....it's easy enough to discard L or R once the recording is transfered to your computer. But yes, it seems that 4-track mode is the only way you can record a single track. Which restricts you to 44.1/16 of course.

I recorded our band rehearsal last Thursday and the other guys took the mickey somewhat when they saw my new "electric shaver". However, once they heard a few tracks back through my 7509 cans they were impressed.

Friday night I recorded a pub gig we did. We didn't have time for a sound check and I just stuck the thing on a tripod in a corner (for safety) and pointed it at the band. The H4 coped admirably even though we played very loud. It would have benefited from being in a better position but that wasn't practical given the lack of prep time, the pub being packed and lot of bods dancing everywhere. It was a bloody good gig, actually, and it's all captured in 24 bit stereo.

I haven't tried any ext mics yet but that should be interesting. Well worth £229 incl delivery!

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Quote Shivanand:

---

Friday night I recorded a pub gig we did. We didn't have time for a sound check and I just stuck the thing on a tripod in a corner (for safety) and pointed it at the band. The H4 coped admirably even though we played very loud.

... Well worth £229 incl delivery!

---

Hi Shivanand - did you get any distortion when recording the band?

And £229 incl delivery sounds great - may I know which shop gives that price so I can get one too?

Cheers

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic

Quote Len:

---

Hi Shivanand - did you get any distortion when recording the band?

And £229 incl delivery sounds great - may I know which shop gives that price so I can get one too?

Cheers

---

The recording was, IMO, quite remarkable for such an inexpensive device. The built in mics will, I am sure, have introduced some distortion but examination of the 24 bit waveform in Audition showed no evidence of clipping.

I don't know if I should mention the name of the shop where I bought the device here but I'll PM you.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

In the SOS review of the new R 9, the reviewer seems quite happy with its ability to record a rock band rehearsal 'at full tilt'. The R9 also has SPDIF output which, correct me if I'm wrong, the Zoom doesn't? I'd be plumping for the Zoom but for this, but the R9 review certainly suggests it can cope with the problems discusssed here. Any experiences yet?

--------------------
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote simonplent:

---

In the SOS review of the new R 9, the reviewer seems quite happy with its ability to record a rock band rehearsal 'at full tilt'. The R9 also has SPDIF output which, correct me if I'm wrong, the Zoom doesn't? I'd be plumping for the Zoom but for this, but the R9 review certainly suggests it can cope with the problems discusssed here. Any experiences yet?

---

Will be giving the H4 a go at a rehearsal tomorrow night - although I'm not sure how representative it will be as the band is very noisy, and the room is very small.

The R9 is about £70 more expensive than the H4, and doesn't (iirc) have the XLR / Jack inputs, 4 track mode, and some of the other bells and whistles. It's possible that it's more resilient to high SPL signals, but the extra stuff makes the H4 the ideal choice for me.

No the H4 doesn't have S/PDIF but that's not an issue for me as the USB and removable SD card is much more useful.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Quote simonplent:

---

In the SOS review of the new R 9, the reviewer seems quite happy with its ability to record a rock band rehearsal 'at full tilt'. The R9 also has SPDIF output which, correct me if I'm wrong, the Zoom doesn't? I'd be plumping for the Zoom but for this, but the R9 review certainly suggests it can cope with the problems discusssed here. Any experiences yet?

---

As a previous poster commented, why do you need an SPDIF output when you can transfer your recordings to any USB equipped computer?

As for the 'rock band at full tilt' thing, I think its a shame that my H4 can't cope with Eddie's twin 4x12s but not a disaster. The recording is serviceable, and I could always use my trusty PZMs if I wanted better quality.

In the meantime, I've been using it as an N-track recorder and guitar practice tool, which you can't do with the R9 afaik.

Check out my first demo, recorded entirely with the H4.
http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/290717-junkyard%20blues%20mix%20with%2 0drums.mp3
That's my daughter on slide guitar!

--------------------
Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

Check out my first demo, recorded entirely with the H4.
http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/290719-junkyard%20blues%20just%20the%2 0drums.mp3
That's my daughter on slide guitar!

---

I think you've linked to the drums-only version, actually

Quote Richard Graham:

---

As a previous poster commented, why do you need an SPDIF output when you can transfer your recordings to any USB equipped computer?

---

Quite simply because my main recorder (DPS16) doesn't have USB in! (Steam driven I know, but I love it ... We're not all working on computers yet, you know!

Presumably you could stil use the R 9 as an a/d interface with your computer in the same way as the Zoom though, with an external mixer for phantom power etc?ie not for recording onto, just for using as a portable interface with a laptop or something?

--------------------
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

I think you've linked to the drums-only version, actually

---

Yes, you are quite right, what a dumb-ass.
I've corrected it now.
http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/290717-junkyard%20blues%20mix%20with%2 0drums.mp3

--------------------
Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote simonplent:

---

Quote Richard Graham:

---

As a previous poster commented, why do you need an SPDIF output when you can transfer your recordings to any USB equipped computer?

---

Quite simply because my main recorder (DPS16) doesn't have USB in! (Steam driven I know, but I love it ... We're not all working on computers yet, you know!

Presumably you could stil use the R 9 as an a/d interface with your computer in the same way as the Zoom though, with an external mixer for phantom power etc?ie not for recording onto, just for using as a portable interface with a laptop or something?

---

I dont think you can use the R9 as an audio interface, but I could be wrong. But if you don't have a computer, what do you need a USB audio interface for?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I do have a couple actually but I don't use them for multitrack recording currently so I don't have a d/a usb interface, only midi/usb. So the Swiss Army Knife of recording technology might tempt me to give proper DAW recording a go without forking out for additional kit. No idea whether the R9 can function like this, the website is a little light on detail and you can't download the manual without registering and all that palaver. But I may have to do it to find out what it can do apart from add reverb (yawn!)

--------------------
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Here's what I do. I avoid using the PC at all during the recording process (which is when I want to just bang stuff down without fussing or staring at a screen or dealing with configuration issues, latency etc).

Record four tracks on the H4, and bounce to stereo. Record on the two spares, and bounce again. Repeat until you have as many tracks as you want. Then use the USB connection to pull all the original recorded tracks (not the bounces) in perfect sync, into Cubase LE. Edit, mix and add effects at leisure.

For getting ideas down, it's so much better than recording with a PC. And I can do it almost anywhere in the house.

So far, the H4's '4-track with input effects' mode is the thing I like most about it. I've only ever worked with cassette 4-tracks or PC-based setups until now.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Yes, sounds great. I think it'd be great to produce a whole album on something like this and really force yourself to make some upfront decisions in the old-fashioned way. If it didn't have the virtual tracks you'd really have to put a serious producer/arranger hat on right at the start.

You can forward bounce four down to two can you? That's pretty fab. I was assuming you had to use it like a real old four track with just four active tracks plus virtuals. I may just have to buy one and do my transfers via the analog outs.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote simonplent:

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Yes, sounds great. I think it'd be great to produce a whole album on something like this and really force yourself to make some upfront decisions in the old-fashioned way. If it didn't have the virtual tracks you'd really have to put a serious producer/arranger hat on right at the start.

You can forward bounce four down to two can you? That's pretty fab. I was assuming you had to use it like a real old four track with just four active tracks plus virtuals. I may just have to buy one and do my transfers via the analog outs.

---

When recording, you only have four tracks to play with. Once they are full, you'll need to bounce them down (in mono or stereo), and load the bounced track into one or two of your four tracks. You'll then have two or three more tracks to overdub onto, playing along with the bounce. So far, so much like a cassette 4-track. Keep doing this until all your tracks are down.

But here's the thing. You don't have to worry about how your bounced tracks are mixed (except insofar as you want to overdub using them as a guide). You don't have to worry about squeaks and breaths between notes. You just keeping bouncing (with pristine quality, since its all handled mathematically inside the H4), and adding tracks. The bouncing is handled 'off-line' and usually takes about as long as it would in real-time: you can't tweak levels or panning during the bounce (but you can tweak them to taste before you bounce). This is actually very liberating, because you only interrupt the flow of recording for as long as it takes for the bounce to happen: I usually set up the next instrument during this time. Bounce and overdub, bounce and overdub.

When you're finished recording, all of your original recorded tracks are there, *seperately*, on the memory card, with first-generation quality. Import them to Cubase LE and they will run in perfect sync. The only thing you need to get right to begin with is (a) the sound and (b) your playing. Mixing and editing decisions can come later. This is the way it should be, I think!

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit old hat to some of you, but for me, this way of working is perfect.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

When recording, you only have four tracks to play with. Once they are full, you'll need to bounce them down (in mono or stereo), and load the bounced track into one or two of your four tracks. You'll then have two or three more tracks to overdub onto, playing along with the bounce. So far, so much like a cassette 4-track.

---

Well, no, not at all like a cassette 4 track (or indeed my digital 16 track) actually. You can't fill four (or 16) tracks on a cassette and then bounce to virtual tracks or bounce forward. On cassette or tape (or my Akai) you have to keep one or two tracks free to bounce to all the time. Clever little machine, that Zoom chappy!

--------------------
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

PS Just found this: http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/news/news147/index.php

That's the trouble with buying new digital stuff isn't it! It's never quite finished.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote simonplent:

---

PS Just found this: http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/news/news147/index.php

That's the trouble with buying new digital stuff isn't it! It's never quite finished.

---

That link doesn't work for me. What's the gist?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Yes I saw that. Doubt I'll ever want to record MP3s but I'll get the upgrade anyway when it appears.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Quote simonplent:

---

Quote Richard Graham:

---

When recording, you only have four tracks to play with. Once they are full, you'll need to bounce them down (in mono or stereo), and load the bounced track into one or two of your four tracks. You'll then have two or three more tracks to overdub onto, playing along with the bounce. So far, so much like a cassette 4-track.

---

Well, no, not at all like a cassette 4 track (or indeed my digital 16 track) actually. You can't fill four (or 16) tracks on a cassette and then bounce to virtual tracks or bounce forward. On cassette or tape (or my Akai) you have to keep one or two tracks free to bounce to all the time. Clever little machine, that Zoom chappy!

---

What I used to do back in the day was record four tracks on an X-15 with Dolby B and then mix down to a good quality stereo hi-fi cassette deck via my little Realistic 6:2 mixer (sounds laughable now, I know!) Pop the tape back in the X-15 and record two more tracks, and do the final mixdown back onto the hifi deck. So working with the Zoom is quite similar in a way. Fill up the tracks, bounce to stereo, and load the bounced track back into the 4-track before adding overdubs. Plus ca change!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I think I fall on the positive side of the whole firmware upgrade debate. As it stands, the H4 works just fine. I can't say I'll ever need to record at 256kbps VBR, so this issue isn't a problem for me. But subsequent firmware updates might add very useful features or refinements.

Top of my personal wishlist is the ability to record mono files from a single XLR input without having to use 4-track mode. No idea if they'll add it, but at least it's possible.

Of course, if Zoom had released the H4 in a less-than-working state, and tried a bit of damage control via FW updates, then I wouldn't have been happy at all. I'm glad to say this isn't the case.

I used to have an X-15!!! Eeee, them were the days (wipes nostalgic tear from eye!). I also had some diabolical analog drum machine that I can't even remember the name of, maybe an early Dr Rhythm or something? It was blue (I think) with a footprint about the size of a CD.

Oh, back to the question, the Zoom link was about a software fault when recording to MP3. There seems to be a software update you can download to sort it. Try going to Zoom.jp and working your way through to it.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

I think I fall on the positive side of the whole firmware upgrade debate. As it stands, the H4 works just fine. I can't say I'll ever need to record at 256kbps VBR, so this issue isn't a problem for me. But subsequent firmware updates might add very useful features or refinements.

Top of my personal wishlist is the ability to record mono files from a single XLR input without having to use 4-track mode. No idea if they'll add it, but at least it's possible.

Of course, if Zoom had released the H4 in a less-than-working state, and tried a bit of damage control via FW updates, then I wouldn't have been happy at all. I'm glad to say this isn't the case.

---

I totally agree with you about the firmware. The H4 works just fine as it is, but I can think of things that could be possibly added using firmware updates: the ability to split the DSP between the two inputs would be most useful (a different amp sim on each instead of an amp sim followed by an effect on both), or else pile all the DSP power into a super amp-sim or reverb, etc (not that the effects are bad as they stand, actually). Or what about the ability to record 'dry' but monitor with FX, and then write back a track with FX added while keeping the dry version?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I think it's a great machine but a larger display and a hardware input level control would be nice.

I don't expect these as a f/w upgrade though.....

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"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

So tonight I took the H4 to rehearsal. And I'm blown away with the results. I put the built in mics to the "L" gain setting, and tried my best to place the unit sympathetically (on a tripod, incidentally, which worked really well). I used the PSU - no idea if this gives better performance than batteries in this situation.

The internal mics held up really well in a tiny room with a noisy band.

If I get a chance over the weekend, I'll post up some little clips. Also want to post some voice clips so people can hear what the H4 sounds like with the internal mics, an SM57 and a Rode NT5.

I'm guessing that using the PSU has made all the difference: 9V of power to the electrets instead of just 3V from 2AA batteries maybe?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote ant_chapman:

---

So tonight I took the H4 to rehearsal. And I'm blown away with the results. I put the built in mics to the "L" gain setting, and tried my best to place the unit sympathetically (on a tripod, incidentally, which worked really well). I used the PSU - no idea if this gives better performance than batteries in this situation.

The internal mics held up really well in a tiny room with a noisy band.

If I get a chance over the weekend, I'll post up some little clips. Also want to post some voice clips so people can hear what the H4 sounds like with the internal mics, an SM57 and a Rode NT5.

---

Ant, some clips would really be appreciated! I am glad you are happy with the unit. There really is no excuse for me not to go and get one now

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic

Hello Richard Graham:

I think you should write or call Zoom, point them to this forum, and make sure they listen to your file. They'd be nuts not to send you on a promo tour.

Anyway, thanks for posting that file and your comments.

Hi all,

As promised, some Zoom H4 recording clips (all originally recorded as 16bit .wav - converted to 192kbps mp3 with Audacity and LAME) :

Short clip of a band rehearsal
Voice clip using internal mics
Voice clip using Rode NT5
Voice clip using SM57

Apologies for the plosives - I don't have a pop shield at home. Also, apologies for the SM57 clip being so short. I think I accidentally discarded half of it in some hurried editing.

Thanks

Hi ant-well, you can take the tour as well.

Question: On "short clip of band rehearsal", is this solely acoustically recorded with the Zoom's own mics?

Impressive, however it was done.

Quote Jeraldo:

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Question: On "short clip of band rehearsal", is this solely acoustically recorded with the Zoom's own mics?

---

Oops - forgot to tag it. Yeah, it was done with the on-board mics.

So, after hearing the recent clips posted, it seems there is not problem with high SPLs and distortion. Perhaps the appropriate senitivity switches were not set correctly. There are separate switches for the on board mics and the line/mic XLR combo inputs. For those who are interested, the product manual for the H4 is available at:

http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf

Quote Jeraldo:

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So, after hearing the recent clips posted, it seems there is not problem with high SPLs and distortion. Perhaps the appropriate senitivity switches were not set correctly.

---

Not so, Jeraldo. The switch on my H4 was set absolutely correctly, i.e. at the lowest setting.

Either my band is louder, or (more likely), using the power supply rather than batteries gives an un-distorted sound, or (possibly) my H4 isn't working properly.

P.S. Thanks for the positive comments about the demo!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

or (more likely), using the power supply rather than batteries gives an un-distorted sound

---

I think this is probably the most likely explanation.

The clip I uploaded was recorded with the mic gain switch set to the lowest setting, and the input level reduced to around (iirc) 85 (100 is the default).

Quote ant_chapman:

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Quote Richard Graham:

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or (more likely), using the power supply rather than batteries gives an un-distorted sound

---

I think this is probably the most likely explanation.

The clip I uploaded was recorded with the mic gain switch set to the lowest setting, and the input level reduced to around (iirc) 85 (100 is the default).

---

Still, not really ideal, as a large part of the convenience aspect of the H4 is being able to put it anywhere without trailing wires, and not having to have a seperate power supply with you etc.

I've read in this or another thread that it's possible to modify battery powered devices to use higher voltages... what are the risks? And does anyone know why a device that accepts 9V from a power-supply, should only have 3 volts worth of batteries?

Does anyone think it would be possible to create a 9V battery pack that plugs into the PSU input on the H4? Justy an idea that popped into my head just now. Then, there wouldn't be any need to mod the H4, and I'd have thought it would be safer for the H4's circuits too.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Sorry - a bit late to the party here and just catching up with this thread...

Seeing that much of the discussion has focussed on how much volume the H4 can handle, can I just ask about general sensitivity for recording very low level sounds and general ambiences in the field? Is there any inherent noise and how much gain is available etc?

Thanks

Colin

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www.2b-media.co.uk

Quote cwillsher:

---

Seeing that much of the discussion has focussed on how much volume the H4 can handle, can I just ask about general sensitivity for recording very low level sounds and general ambiences in the field? Is there any inherent noise and how much gain is available etc?

---

The H4 is excellent for easy sound snapshots. The mics perform very well at the H (highest) setting, and the result at 24 bit / 96 KHz is wonderful, like the "macro" setting on a digital camera.

However, there is a problem when recording at 44.1 and 48 KHz. There is an audible (and visible as a wave form in a DAW) periodic tone (corresponding to the blinking of the H4 access light) on all recordings made with battery power. (This tone may also be there at 24/96, but I cannot hear it.) There is no tone present when using the AC adapter.

Here are links to sample recordings:

1. access light tone 44.1.wav
http://www.box.net/public/xe7yvzpezb

2. access light tone 48.wav
http://www.box.net/public/sobave36ct

ZOOM is aware of this problem which is a design flaw on their analog circuit board (or so they told me). They have been very open about this problem which I find quite admirable in a company.

I do a lot of field recordings at high mic settings in low sound level situations. I so enjoy the convenience of the H4 that I will probably hang onto it despite this problem and will just record at 24/96.

Edited by Phillip (20/11/06 02:55 PM)

Maybe using a 9v battery pack would fix this problem too? After all, for most 'field' recordings, you are not likely to have a handy AC outlet (although you could record at 96kHz I guess!)

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Alternatively, a future firmware update could maybe let us turn off the access light for low-level 44.1 kHz recording.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

Maybe using a 9v battery pack would fix this problem too? After all, for most 'field' recordings, you are not likely to have a handy AC outlet (although you could record at 96kHz I guess!)

---

Perhaps someone would try the 9v battery pack idea which has also been suggested in another forum. It may work fine, but it does reduce the portability advantage of the H4 as well.

True, there are not handy AC outlets in the field, although a vehicle could provide DC power through the cigarette lighter, using an inverter.

My solution at this point is to record only at 96 KHz when on batteries.

Well that's rubbish, really, isn't it, to put it mildly? I was literally going to buy one tomorrow so now I won't. Basically what they're saying is that it doesn't work with batteries at the sample rate that 999 out of a 1000 people will use it for. DOH! DOH! DOH!. Well done the Zoom QC dept. Looks like they've made up my mind to buy the R 9 instead!

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

I only get this pulsing noise when I use a 2 gig sd card I bought and not with the supplied 128 meg card, the noise is very quiet anyway and inaudible in normal recording,I only noticed this noise when I used some sensitive in-ear phones and even then only in a quiet room with nothing to record anyway.

Quote simonplent:

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Well that's rubbish, really, isn't it, to put it mildly? I was literally going to buy one tomorrow so now I won't. Basically what they're saying is that it doesn't work with batteries at the sample rate that 999 out of a 1000 people will use it for. DOH! DOH! DOH!. Well done the Zoom QC dept. Looks like they've made up my mind to buy the R 9 instead!

---

I wouldn't dismiss the H4 so quickly! First off, the beeping will only be audible on very very quiet recordings. Second, if you are recording something that quiet, what is wrong with using 96/24?

For most (musical) uses 44.1/16 is fine. For the rest, there is 96/24. Pas de problem.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote cwillsher:

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ZOOM is aware of this problem which is a design flaw on their analog circuit board (or so they told me). They have been very open about this problem which I find quite admirable in a company.

---

It would be a lot more admirable if they told us when they were going to ship product that was fixed! So, to sum up, you can't record MP3s or 44.1 or 48k on batteries because of software and hardware issues!

I exagerrate to make a point, but jeeez, it's really not good enough is it for a £250 machine? Are you absolutely SURE you can't hear the noise when you turn up your monitors on a quiet passage?

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

I'm tempted, but the other thing that worries me (apart from the beeping noise) is the fact that other people on other forums have reported problems with using 2Gb cards (and I'd certainly want to use a 2Gb card).

Anyone here tested it out much with a 2Gb card?

As Homer would say (the yellow chap not the old greek): It just gets worse and worse!

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote simonplent:

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Are you absolutely SURE you can't hear the noise when you turn up your monitors on a quiet passage?

---

If you mean can I hear the noise at 24/96, I cannot when listening on headphones (Sony MDR-7506) at full volume.

But it's possible that there is a tone there nonetheless present on the recording.

However, at 44.1 and 48, the tone is blatant at high listening volume on very quiet source material and it has an obvious musical note/frequency which makes those recordings useless for anyone who can hear it.

This is a real bummer - I was going to get one this weekend but clearly do not want to live with a defective product - and no I do not want to burn up disk space at 24/96!

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic

Quote Len:

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This is a real bummer - I was going to get one this weekend but clearly do not want to live with a defective product - and no I do not want to burn up disk space at 24/96!

---

If you can purchase the H4 from a store that will allow returns and a refund, I would strongly suggest you try it out for yourself for a couple of days.

You may not be as bothered by the tone as others are.

Quote Phillip:

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However, there is a problem when recording at 44.1 and 48 KHz. There is an audible (and visible as a wave form in a DAW) periodic tone (corresponding to the blinking of the H4 access light) on all recordings made with battery power. (This tone may also be there at 24/96, but I cannot hear it.) There is no tone present when using the AC adapter.

---

Yep... I've discovered this myself after buying one. It's fairly obvious.

I'll be doing the same as you... but it's not ideal. Part of the attraction was the ability to make MP3 recordings and slap them straight online. Not really possible unless there's a fix.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com

A user in another forum posted that his solution to the noise problem was an external 8xAA battery pack (using 1.2v NiMH rechargeables) plugged into the 9v DC input. There are no more periodic tones or "beepings" on his recordings.

Obviously not the ideal set-up for a "Handy Recorder", but the upside is that battery life will probably quadruple with the pack.

Quote Rob C.:

---

Yep... I've discovered this myself after buying one. It's fairly obvious.

---

Do they all do this? Strange that the SOS reviewer missed this.

There is a firmware update due this month that may address this very slight defect, I'm very pleased with this piece of kit and as I don't record the beating of butterfly wings I will experience no problems as it is.

There's no mention of 'this particular defect' being addressed on their website, just a driver issue and the MP3 issue. As a previous poster reported, the problem was, according to Zoom, a badly designed circuit. Silence on this topic on their website, presumably because they'd have to recall all the ones they've sold and give a replacement once they've sorted out the design and manufacture of one that works.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" Charles Darwin.

Quote E P Gumby:

---

I'm tempted, but the other thing that worries me (apart from the beeping noise) is the fact that other people on other forums have reported problems with using 2Gb cards (and I'd certainly want to use a 2Gb card).

Anyone here tested it out much with a 2Gb card?

---

I use it all the time with a 2GB card (Sandisk). I have had no problems with the card, or with beeping (and I only ever record @ 44.1kHz).

I think certain people are over-reacting slightly!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

"I think certain people are over-reacting slightly! "

my sentiments exactly, this is a great device, if you want pristine audio you will have to spend a lot more money

It seems that most of the low price portable recorders (like the M-Audio and Edirol units) seem to have suffered from noise issues so this problem should be seen in context. The problem is likely to be either down to the grounding scheme inside the machine or possibly due to insufficient power supply filtering. These require a fair bit of analogue design experience to get right. Good analogue design is something that doesn't seem to come cheap.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote Richard Graham:

---

I've read in this or another thread that it's possible to modify battery powered devices to use higher voltages... what are the risks? And does anyone know why a device that accepts 9V from a power-supply, should only have 3 volts worth of batteries?

Does anyone think it would be possible to create a 9V battery pack that plugs into the PSU input on the H4? Justy an idea that popped into my head just now. Then, there wouldn't be any need to mod the H4, and I'd have thought it would be safer for the H4's circuits too.

---

The external battery pack is probably the way to go. Probably the ideal solution would be to use a rechargeable lithium ion pack from someone like Hawkwoods but they're not cheap and the voltage would be slightly too high. These units possibly use a switch mode power supply to convert the input voltage to the voltages required internally. If it does then it is likely that it has been designed to accept a wide range of voltages but I would want to get hold of more information before I tried any different voltages.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote rnms:

---

There is a firmware update due this month that may address this very slight defect, I'm very pleased with this piece of kit and as I don't record the beating of butterfly wings I will experience no problems as it is.

---

You've said it may address this defect, could you give us some more info?

I've just done a recording at maximum gain in my fairly quiet office, and as well as pre-amp noise and one side of a very dull telephone conversation two rooms away, I can indeed hear the dreaded 'tone' fairly distinctly when I listen at top volume on my headphones (Sennheiser PX200).

I can't say I'm overjoyed, but let's get some perspective on this. Did anyone seriously expect a £220 piece of kit that runs off a pair of AA batteries to be able to produce noise-free ambient recordings of silent rooms at maximum gain? Let's forget about the 'tone' problem for a moment, what about mic and pre-amp noise (of which there is plenty at extreme gain settings)? If Zoom could have invented a £220 piece of kit with such low self-noise that you could 'record butterfly wings flapping at 100 paces', they would have deserved congratulations even if it didn't also work as a multitrack recorder with effects and a PC audio interface.

I'm sure there are recording solutions out there that will let you record very quiet material with low noise, so if that's what you want to do, fill your boots! It’s never really been on my list of priorities, though of course it would be a ‘nice to have’, in case I ever get the urge. As it is, I've made a bunch of stereo recordings both in and out of doors, and self-noise has never been a problem.

For those who are recording very quiet sources, there is the 96kHz mode, or 9V power from either a wall-wart or a battery pack, so it’s not as if workarounds are not available. I suspect there will still be a fair amount of self-noise, but I guess more power might also fix that (as well as the distorted recording at high volume problem, which for me is far more significant).

I don’t really understand why a defect that only affects a pretty marginal use of the H4 (and with such easy workarounds) should make an otherwise great product ‘rubbish’ (as Simon puts it, mildly)! I’m tempted to say I couldn’t care less about the ‘tone’ problem, but that wouldn’t be true either. I’d be really happy if Zoom could fix it via a firmware update, but I would buy an H4 again tomorrow, even if there was no prospect of a fix. Because it isn’t that much of a problem.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote James Perrett:

---

The external battery pack is probably the way to go. James.

---

Thanks James, I've seen a 'battery holder' on Maplins website, for a 9V PP3, with a pair of flying connections that could presumably be soldered to a suitable connector for the PSU input on the H4.

I'd have thought a 9V PP3 would be just the ticket (rechargeable or not) but the ratings in mA hours (550mAh for a Duracell, and only 150mAh(!) for a rechargeable) look pitiful compared to my rechargeable AAs (2700mAh).

So I guess my best bet would be seven or eight AAs, connected in series in some sort of box with a flying lead.

I imagine that as well as better recordings, I'd also get much longer out of eight cells than two, even if they are supplying more current.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

OK it's bigger and heavier but a PP9 battery in a belt pack or pocket could be ideal for extended use in the field.

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"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

The firmware update is supposedly to address an mp3 problem, wether or not this is related to the general pulsing noise ( I can't call it a beep because it isn't ), I don't know, this remains to be seen.
over the years I've used many portable recording devices, cassette, lately minidisk,both needed external mics and transfer to computer had to be done in real time, this H4 is the best such device I've used, just point and go and copy files over, magic.

Just read the H4 review in the latest Sound on Sound, where the H4 is described (not once but twice) as 'a Swiss Army knife'- type device!!

A case of 'great minds think alike' ?

I could write for Sound on Sound you know! Any jobs going?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Edited by Richard Graham (21/11/06 01:45 PM)

Quote Richard Graham:

---

So I guess my best bet would be seven or eight AAs, connected in series in some sort of box with a flying lead.

---

You'll need 6 brand new AA's to give you 9V. Maplin should sell suitable battery holders and connectors. For longer battery life you could consider C or D cells although a great deal of development has been done on AA's to improve their life for applications like cameras and portable music players so the difference in capacity isn't as much as it once was.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote James Perrett:

---

You'll need 6 brand new AA's to give you 9V.

---

My AAs are only 1.25 V, so I calculated I'd need 7.2 of them to give me 9V.

Am I going wrong somewhere?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

---

Quote James Perrett:

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You'll need 6 brand new AA's to give you 9V.

---

My AAs are only 1.25 V, so I calculated I'd need 7.2 of them to give me 9V.

Am I going wrong somewhere?

---

Sounds like yours are recharge-able batteries. None recharge-ables will give the full 1.5V

I would expect the H4 will be happy with 6 x 1.2V though.

I still favour the PP9 solution.

--------------------
"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Maybe I will try recording my band with a pair of non-rechargeables... the extra half a volt might help headroom a bit.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

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Maybe I will try recording my band with a pair of non-rechargeables... the extra half a volt might help headroom a bit.

---

I know it's not very "green" of me but I always prefer to use brand new non-recharge-ables for critical applications.

I'm going to use the PSU with the H4 for this week's rehearsal.

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"Qui habet aures audiendi audiat"

Fair enough. I've had good use of the rechargeables though I must say, they seem to do a very long time before running out! But I never realised they were shy of a quarter of a volt.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

A bloke on another forum has reported using a battery pack consisting of 8 AA NiMH rechargeables as working fine, so this is the way to go if you can be bothered, Also Zoom have apparently suggested that SD card brand may make a difference, the Viking 2 gig. card I have is the cheapest I could find, perhaps a better card may solve this or lessen it at least, there is a list of confirmed media on the Zoom website. http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4/index.php

Quote rnms:

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A bloke on another forum has reported using a battery pack consisting of 8 AA NiMH rechargeables as working fine, so this is the way to go if you can be bothered, Also Zoom have apparently suggested that SD card brand may make a difference, the Viking 2 gig. card I have is the cheapest I could find, perhaps a better card may solve this or lessen it at least, there is a list of confirmed media on the Zoom website. http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4/index.php

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I got the best SD card available from the shop (Bonsers of the Bigg Market, Newcastle). A Sandisk Ultra II 2GB. £55 quid.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Well, I've just checked again with the 128meg. SD card that came with my H4 (Mediafo), and there is no pulsing sound what so ever recording at 44/16, however If I put the 2 gig. card in the sound is there but as I say I can only hear it in a quiet room and with sensitive in-ear phones

Quote Richard Graham:

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I got the best SD card available from the shop (Bonsers of the Bigg Market, Newcastle). A Sandisk Ultra II 2GB. £55 quid.

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I have heard (from Cunnings Recordings at the SBES show) that the SanDisk Ultra II are about the best cards around for Digital Audio.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote Richard Graham:

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Fair enough. I've had good use of the rechargeables though I must say, they seem to do a very long time before running out! But I never realised they were shy of a quarter of a volt.

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NiMH batteries-the AA, AAA, etc., are nominally 1.25, or, more commonly 1.2 volts. However-the more recent types will *usually* dramatically outlast their conventional counterparts, because they store much more energy. Also, they suffer very little voltage drop until they're out of charge. And, the batteries can deliver far more current on demand-say, charging a flash. More conventional batteries will drop through the 1.2 volt value long before the NiMH start to drop voltage.

The 2300-2500 mAh are much more difficult to charge. Even with "smart" chargers, they often are not completely charged, and therefore often seem to offer no real advantages. (And some smart chargers only measure battery temperatures.) With more modern batteries, often the best way to charge is the oldest way-a time based charger, delivering less energy, over a much longer charge cycle-say 8.5 hours. And as everyone who has used them notices, it takes 4 to 5 charge cycles before they start performing to their specs. They loose about 1% of charge per day when not used.

There are a few types, by Ray-O-Vac and others, that include some electronics in the batteries, with the idea of providing even faster charge times. There have been reports from users saying that the electronics in those batteries either fail, or "confuse" the device being used, and thus end up damaging the device.

Quote rnms:

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Well, I've just checked again with the 128meg. SD card that came with my H4 (Mediafo), and there is no pulsing sound what so ever recording at 44/16, however If I put the 2 gig. card in the sound is there but as I say I can only hear it in a quiet room and with sensitive in-ear phones

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This is very interesting - anyone else find that if you use the stock 128meg card there is no defect?

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www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic